What are you currently reading?

[Grazioso]

Internalizing probably doesn't translate, period. (Just saying.)

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing , but the movie equivalent of thought balloons--voiceovers--usually feel hokey, almost like artistic cheating. Another option is spoken soliloquies, which probably only feel right in Shakespeare adaptations, where it's an understood/expected convention. Of course, there's the more subtle but more challenging alternative: use really good acting, direction, lighting, music, etc. to show the character's inner life. Certainly, good films regardless of genre have had no problem portraying or implying emotional subtleties.

Interestingly (having just skimmed through my copies of V for Vendetta and Watchmen), there aren't any thought balloons that I can see, only a few places that use the equivalent of voiceover, with one person's speech carrying across multiple panels in caption boxes (as ironic commentary to the visuals, for instance).

As I said, there's a lot of internalizing in comic books that doesn't translate well into a film and this is one reason why Watchmen failed. The story was too complex for a movie. It just didn't work and I read Alan Moore had a hand in the film, but not even he could save it. I only watched this film once, but that was enough for me.

I don't know that the story itself was too complex--though it is baroque--but rather that the things that make Watchmen unique in comics might not translate well to screen, if at all: namely the complex implementation of flashbacks and all the "false documents" and mise-en-abîme. (I think Watchmen is ultimately more interesting not for the story it tells, but rather how it tells its story.)

[Mirror Image]

Internalizing probably doesn't translate, period. (Just saying.)

It does in the comic books. Or are you just talking about films?

[Mirror Image]

I don't know that the story itself was too complex--though it is baroque--but rather that the things that make Watchmen unique in comics might not translate well to screen, if at all: namely the complex implementation of flashbacks and all the "false documents" and mise-en-abîme. (I think Watchmen is ultimately more interesting not for the story it tells, but rather how it tells its story.)

Yes, the flashbacks were a hard pill to swallow, because they were done without any kind of smooth transition. You should read Watchmen sometime. It's a great read. One of the best comic books I've ever read.

[Grazioso]

Yes, the flashbacks were a hard pill to swallow, because they were done without any kind of smooth transition. You should read Watchmen sometime. It's a great read. One of the best comic books I've ever read.

I have read it. Those characteristics I was discussing were in reference to the original comic.

[Mirror Image]

I have read it. Those characteristics I was discussing were in reference to the original comic.

It's an excellent read. Do you have other favorite comic books? Have you read any of Gaiman's Sandman?

[DavidW]

Watchmen might have been interesting when it was first published... but giving superheroes complex personalities and real world issues is now old hat.  Not only that but the cold war era paranoia is gone.  There is no resonance anymore.  This means that the movie needed to translate some of the issues of that comic to make it fit with our world right now.  Instead Snyder gave us a literal interpretation trying to visually match the comic frame by frame.  So not only did he not try to build new themes that would resonate with an audience today, but his adaptation left the soul of the work behind leaving only a hollow shell.  He didn't really work hard enough in establishing the characters as real people with real problems as much as the comic series did.

When you watch the movie don't you feel bored and unengaged?  I liked Rorschach alot, but that was about it.  It didn't even find a new equilibrium for a narrative flow or momentum for a film.  It was kind of a dud.

[Brian]

For my birthday yesterday my family gave me a wheelbarrow full of books. My father pushed an actual wheelbarrow (cleaned beforehand thankfully) into the living room, covered with a couple towels, and they whipped the towels off and it was full of books.

The haul (literally), divided into non-fiction and otherwise:
- The Rest is Noise, Alex Ross
- Defending the Guilty, Alex McBride (a lawyer relates his biggest screw-ups and adventures)
- A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again, David Foster Wallace
- 2011 Guide to Literary Agents
- Garner's Modern American Usage, Bryan A. Garner
- Diaries: The Python Years, Michael Palin (inspired by Karl!)

- American Gods, Neil Gaiman
- 60 & 40 Stories, Donald Barthelme
- Infinite Jest, David Foster Wallace
- The Pale King, David Foster Wallace

[bhodges]

Well first...Happy Birthday! And a big mess o' books is a mighty fine gift (and points to your family for presentation).  The Rest is Noise is excellent; there's a reason it's been translated into 15 languages. The only other one I can affirm is the Donald Barthelme collection, which I think has some of the most imaginative short stories ever penned.

But I'd bet the Palin book - oops, I do mean Michael Palin  - is wonderful.

--Bruce

[Grazioso]

Watchmen might have been interesting when it was first published... but giving superheroes complex personalities and real world issues is now old hat.  Not only that but the cold war era paranoia is gone.  There is no resonance anymore.  This means that the movie needed to translate some of the issues of that comic to make it fit with our world right now.  Instead Snyder gave us a literal interpretation trying to visually match the comic frame by frame.  So not only did he not try to build new themes that would resonate with an audience today, but his adaptation left the soul of the work behind leaving only a hollow shell.  He didn't really work hard enough in establishing the characters as real people with real problems as much as the comic series did.

When you watch the movie don't you feel bored and unengaged?  I liked Rorschach alot, but that was about it.  It didn't even find a new equilibrium for a narrative flow or momentum for a film.  It was kind of a dud.

Yes. I was just mentally checking off the scenes I remembered from my last reading of the source material back in the day. "Giant Dr. Manhattan blasts the VC, check..."

Your response very much parallels mine. The most interesting aspects of the comic are questions of text and texture and probably couldn't be directly translated to the screen even if anyone had wanted to. By only half-heartedly dealing with those and focusing too much on literally recreating the visuals of the main story arc, the film lost forward momentum, tension, and clarity. Sub-par acting didn't help.

Like I said earlier, it's more interesting to me when a film re-examines the basic idea of the superhero myth itself, as in Unbreakable, or to a lesser extent, Hancock.

It's an excellent read. Do you have other favorite comic books? Have you read any of Gaiman's Sandman?

V for Vendetta was always a fave. I read Sandman back in the day but don't remember any details. Many of the ones you mentioned a while back I read years ago.

[Mn Dave]

Digging it.
[asin]B003R4ZGBO[/asin]

[DavidW]

- American Gods, Neil Gaiman

Awesome!

[Coco]

Ho capito. Not all art can (nor should) be serious : )

Yes, but balance is key.

[Mirror Image]

Watchmen might have been interesting when it was first published... but giving superheroes complex personalities and real world issues is now old hat.  Not only that but the cold war era paranoia is gone.  There is no resonance anymore.  This means that the movie needed to translate some of the issues of that comic to make it fit with our world right now.  Instead Snyder gave us a literal interpretation trying to visually match the comic frame by frame.  So not only did he not try to build new themes that would resonate with an audience today, but his adaptation left the soul of the work behind leaving only a hollow shell.  He didn't really work hard enough in establishing the characters as real people with real problems as much as the comic series did.

When you watch the movie don't you feel bored and unengaged?  I liked Rorschach alot, but that was about it.  It didn't even find a new equilibrium for a narrative flow or momentum for a film.  It was kind of a dud.

I didn't enjoy the Watchmen movie at all. Nothing about it was as interesting to me as the comic. Even Rorschach wasn't convincing, so I agree with you on all points about this film adaptation. The whole superhero movie thing is getting old to me now. I'm tired of directors putting special effects above an engaging story. Without a story, you don't have a film in my view.

[val]

DAVID S. LANDES:     "The Wealth and Poverty of Nations"

Why are some nations so wealthy and others so poor? Landes studies the problem in a very detailed and documented book. His conclusions have nothing to do with political correctness, and that is good. However they are polemical and many people hated them when the book was published (1998). Even if I don't agree with some of them I find this essay very stimulating.

[Grazioso]

Is it any good? Elementary, dear GMG'ers.

[Mirror Image]

Just bought Bendis's Daredevil run, which I've read is one of the best in the character's history next to Frank Miller's:

[Lethevich]

A pleasant fellow approached me on campus and gave me this:

I had a cultist (in the nicest possible sense) of this type sell me some manual or other in town a while back - as I am ridiculously timid I couldn't really say no. I recall the same "His Divine Grace" title and purple/gold design - I wonder what the religion is, I never thought to look.

[Grazioso]

I had a cultist (in the nicest possible sense) of this type sell me some manual or other in town a while back - as I am ridiculously timid I couldn't really say no. I recall the same "His Divine Grace" title and purple/gold design - I wonder what the religion is, I never thought to look.

That edition is one handed out by Hare Krishnas, but the Bhagavad Gita itself is a key text of Hinduism and one of the world's most important (and interesting) religious classics, up there with the Bible, Quran, etc.

[ibanezmonster]

Speeding my way through this easy stuff...
Supposedly, JSF isn't nearly as good as Spring (which I will learn next), but I find it very impressive, nevertheless. You can do stuff that I never even would think of.

[Bogey]