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[Florestan]

Thank you for raising a smile--I'm thinking of how often complaints about American cultural imperialism seem to have a French accent....

and I must say the proper Romanian spelling would probably be easier for an American  to handle than the French, which inevitably provokes a pronounciation on the lines of  "See-oran" (as in "See Oran on Tuesday and Tangiers on Wednesday", or, more likely in America,  "See Orrin Hatch run again for Senate")

[Drasko]

But pray tell, as a Serbian what is easier for you to pronounce, Sioran or Čoran? 

Čoran is easier actually, because when pronouncing Sioran there is natural tendency to sound j in between i and o, like Sijoran, and there is a rule against it.

Yes, of course, because of the French cultural imperialism... Just like George Enescu (proper pronunciation DŽORDŽE ENESKU) is incorrectlly transliterated Georges Enesco.

Here we are free of imperialist yoke, we pronounce it Džordže Enesku, only we go slightly soft on the Dž-s - not like G in George but more like Gi in Giorgio. 

[Florestan]

Čoran is easier actually, because when pronouncing Sioran there is natural tendency to sound j in between i and o, like Sijoran, and there is a rule against it.

Thanks.

Here we are free of imperialist yoke

, we pronounce it Džordže Enesku, only we go slightly soft on the Dž-s - not like G in George but more like Gi in Giorgio.

That's correct, actually. 

[Drasko]

That's correct, actually. 

In which case Romanian George is pronounced exactly the same as Serbian version of the same name: in Cyrillic Ђорђе, or in Latin alphabet Đоrđe or Djordje.   

[Florestan]

In which case Romanian George is pronounced exactly the same as Serbian version of the same name: in Cyrillic Ђорђе, or in Latin alphabet Đоrđe or Djordje.

Exactly. 

A question, please: I infer that dž is stronger than đ --- could you please give me an example of a name that uses the former? And what is the Serbian letter for it (I found it in the Croatian alphabet and thought, wrongly perhaps, that it is used in Serbian Latin transliteration as well). Okay, that makes 2 questions, actually. TIA.

[Karl Henning]

Is there a limit on the number of questions?  0:)

[North Star]

Is there a limit on the number of questions?  0:)

There wasn't in out jr. high school's final year history exam - there were over 20 essay questions (the exam lasted 60 minutes), and with about 15% of the theoretical maximum points you got an A... We were allowed to use any books and one A4 cheat sheet. Anyway, this might not be what you meant...

[Drasko]

Exactly. 

A question, please: I infer that dž is stronger than đ --- could you please give me an example of a name that uses the former? And what is the Serbian letter for it (I found it in the Croatian alphabet and thought, wrongly perhaps, that it is used in Serbian Latin transliteration as well). Okay, that makes 2 questions, actually. TIA.

Dž in Cyrillic is Џ/џ.

Џ/џ - Dž/dž as in John, James, George, Gipsy, Jakarata, jump. In Serbian I can't recall off top of my head any first name with dž, apart from few Muslim names like Džemal or Dženan, but there are many last names that end with -džić, like Karadžić, Adžić, Nerandžić ... or constructed with prefix Hadži which infers that someone along the ancestral line has been to pilgrimage to holy land.

Ђ/ђ - Đ/đ or Dj/Dj is softer, like Italian Giorgio, Gianni or Magyar, Gyula, Gyorgy in Hungarian (though Hungarians go really soft and the sound gets formed slightly different), generally very difficult to manage for anglophones.

[kishnevi]

Dž in Cyrillic is Џ/џ.

Џ/џ - Dž/dž as in John, James, George, Gipsy, Jakarata, jump. In Serbian I can't recall off top of my head any first name with dž, apart from few Muslim names like Džemal or Dženan, but there are many last names that end with -džić, like Karadžić, Adžić, Nerandžić ... or constructed with prefix Hadži which infers that someone along the ancestral line has been to pilgrimage to holy land.

Ђ/ђ - Đ/đ or Dj/Dj is softer, like Italian Giorgio, Gianni or Magyar, Gyula, Gyorgy in Hungarian (though Hungarians go really soft and the sound gets formed slightly different), generally very difficult to manage for anglophones.

Interesting how subtle phonetics can be sometimes.  In (American, at least) English,  the difference you're describing doesn't really exist:  all those would take a soft "G" or a J, as opposed to the hard "G" found in words such as gulf and grand.

Am I correct in thinking that Enescu's first name has two syllables (Dzor-dze)?

[Florestan]

Dž in Cyrillic is Џ/џ.

Џ/џ - Dž/dž as in John, James, George, Gipsy, Jakarata, jump. In Serbian I can't recall off top of my head any first name with dž, apart from few Muslim names like Džemal or Dženan, but there are many last names that end with -džić, like Karadžić, Adžić, Nerandžić ... or constructed with prefix Hadži which infers that someone along the ancestral line has been to pilgrimage to holy land.

Ђ/ђ - Đ/đ or Dj/Dj is softer, like Italian Giorgio, Gianni or Magyar, Gyula, Gyorgy in Hungarian (though Hungarians go really soft and the sound gets formed slightly different), generally very difficult to manage for anglophones.

Thanks, Drasko, for the detailed answer.

Gyorgy, though, is not quite like Gianni or Giorgio, but more like Gjorgje in Serbian or Gheorghe in Romanian.

Interesting how subtle phonetics can be sometimes.  In (American, at least) English,  the difference you're describing doesn't really exist:  all those would take a soft "G" or a J, as opposed to the hard "G" found in words such as gulf and grand.

Romanian doesn't differentiate either between soft and hard, neither graphically nor phonetically. For instance, the phonetic transliteration of "John, James, George, Gipsy, Jakarata, jump" would be "Gion/Geon, Geimz, Georgi/Giorgi (one syllable, with a very short i at the end), gipsi (with a long i at the end), giacarta/geacarta, giamp/geamp", exactly the same as Giorgio or Gianni. How soft or hard the pronunciation is depends on the speaker but there is no rule whatsoever to differentiate: either way is right and is considered the same sound, graphically and phonetically. Personally I pronounce Jakarta and Gianni exactly the same and can't hear any marked difference when hearing them pronounced by other people.

OTOH, there is a clear difference between ge/gi and ghe/ghi. For instance, Gheorghe, which is a variant of George: the group ghe sounds like the ge in get but with a more defined transition from g to e, as if you inserted a short  i in between. (I don't know if that makes any sense to you. )

Am I correct in thinking that Enescu's first name has two syllables (Dzor-dze)?

Yes you are. The final e is clearly pronounced and sounds like the one in "hen".

[Geo Dude]

[aquablob]

Nice! I just read the blog.

[Geo Dude]

Nice! I just read the blog.

The blog can be fun, too.

[Artem]

Van Gogh: The Life by Steven Naifeh and Gregory White Smith

I knew that Van Gogh didn't have it easy, but i didn't know that the things were so bad. I don't think I've read a biography about someone that'd make me feel so sad about that person. I found this to be a very good book.

[Geo Dude]

[Karl Henning]

On Amazon:

when it comes to music, there are a few gifted and talented people who have always had my ear and burt bacharach is definitely one of them. whether he's composing for the average listener or for a broadway show, this guy has got it. that's spelled 'IT'. this album is a partial collection of tunes made famous because of his abilities and deserved radio play way back in the 60s. regardless of the fact that many of the collection is 50 or more years of age, they are , thanks to mr. bacharach, as timeless as ever. different artists come together under this album's songs to give their personal rendition of each song presented. each one is a gem . if you are going to spend some down time listening to easy listening, this album is as easy listening as it gets. bravo, mr. bacharach.

Impressed that the only caps in that review are reserved for IT.

[Geo Dude]

More Than Human is brilliant and highly recommended.  Still working on the second one.

[Artem]

Vertigo by W. G. Sebald



"Vertigo" is Sebald's firts novel and possibly the least enjoyable out of the few book that he published before his untimely death. It shares similar structure and themes that he uses in later works, but it is just not as engaging as "The Rings of Saturn", for example.

[mahler10th]

Today I was at my brothers house.  I took this on my Kobo, and have nearly finished it.  As many know, Feynman was a Physicist Nobel prize winner who among other things 'worked on the bomb' and blew NASA's cover story wide open in the wake of the Challenger disaster. 
Anyway, I have been reading this book, and whilst at my brothers, his severely disabled daughter is sitting doing some home schoolwork.  I look to see what she is up to and couldn't believe my eyes.  She has pages and pages of equations and stuff, squaring numbers, cubing numbers, applying Pythagoras theorem to calculate angles, blah, blah...well, I am amazed at this, as this little girl is way ahead of me in mathematics. She showed me how to calculate so many angles on other angles, and how to use certain formulas to do this, that and the next thing.  I was amazed.
And here was me thinking about how much I admire Feynman...and then my own Niece sits me down to show me how fundamental mathematics can provide answers to most things...bless that wee lassie.  I am now off on a mathematics kick, and I suspect I will ask her advice and even seek her tutelage in my new quest to understand mathematics and stuff...
How amazing some wee people are.

[Cato]

Anyway, I have been reading this book, and whilst at my brothers, his severely disabled daughter is sitting doing some home schoolwork.  I look to see what she is up to and couldn't believe my eyes.  She has pages and pages of equations and stuff, squaring numbers, cubing numbers, applying Pythagoras theorem to calculate angles, blah, blah...well, I am amazed at this, as this little girl is way ahead of me in mathematics....
How amazing some wee people are.

We expect nothing less from the plucky Scots!   0:)

John:How old is your niece?  Teenager?

Feynman said he usually needed some sort of image which "reified" the mathematics he worked on.  One example of his, which became standard in Quantum Physics, is the Feynman Diagram for showing the behavior of the assorted subatomic particles.