Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[Mahlerian]

I haven't had any urge to listen to symphonies 5, 6 or 7 (or 3 for that matter).

I'm steeped in the Sixth right now (preparing a large-scale paper and presentation on the work) and I can't ever seem to stop finding new things in it. Schoenberg was right when he said it's a work in which absolutely nothing is superfluous.

[vers la flamme]

I'm steeped in the Sixth right now (preparing a large-scale paper and presentation on the work) and I can't ever seem to stop finding new things in it. Schoenberg was right when he said it's a work in which absolutely nothing is superfluous.

I love the 6th! I didn't always, but it's grown on me a lot. It's just that I haven't felt drawn to it for whatever reason lately. Until a couple of weeks ago I'd gone months without feeling that strong pull to Mahler at all, but it's coming back.

What recording(s) of the 6th are you listening to lately? I have two, Abbado/Berlin and Bernstein/NYPO. I like both, but I prefer the Bernstein.

[Mahlerian]

I love the 6th! I didn't always, but it's grown on me a lot. It's just that I haven't felt drawn to it for whatever reason lately. Until a couple of weeks ago I'd gone months without feeling that strong pull to Mahler at all, but it's coming back.

What recording(s) of the 6th are you listening to lately? I have two, Abbado/Berlin and Bernstein/NYPO. I like both, but I prefer the Bernstein.

I was joking a little bit!

Lately, I've been listening to Tennstedt/LPO live and Boulez/VPO, but I also know and enjoy both of the recordings you mentioned. As far as Abbado's recordings of the work go, I preferred his performance with the Lucerne Festival Orchestra, on video. I also used to really love Bernstein's late DG recording with Vienna, but haven't listened to it in a while.

[vers la flamme]

I was joking a little bit!

Lately, I've been listening to Tennstedt/LPO live and Boulez/VPO, but I also know and enjoy both of the recordings you mentioned. As far as Abbado's recordings of the work go, I preferred his performance with the Lucerne Festival Orchestra, on video. I also used to really love Bernstein's late DG recording with Vienna, but haven't listened to it in a while.

I want to hear the Bernstein/VPO, I sampled it at one point and was really impressed. I haven't heard much anything out of that cycle, but I do love Bernstein's Mahler. As his Sony cycle was my introduction to most of the symphonies, I'm trying to expand my horizons and spend time with other Mahler conductors now: Haitink, Walter, Klemperer mostly.

I know Klaus Tennstedt is highly lauded as a Mahlerian, but I haven't heard any of his recordings. Would it be possible to describe his approach to Mahler's music in a few words? May be easier said than done, but I'm curious. Boulez I already know is a most excellent Mahler conductor, though I haven't heard his 6th.

[Mahlerian]

I want to hear the Bernstein/VPO, I sampled it at one point and was really impressed. I haven't heard much anything out of that cycle, but I do love Bernstein's Mahler. As his Sony cycle was my introduction to most of the symphonies, I'm trying to expand my horizons and spend time with other Mahler conductors now: Haitink, Walter, Klemperer mostly.

His later cycle tends to be slower and more drawn out, but it works surprisingly well and he gets wonderful playing from his orchestras. The NYPO set has a lot of fire, but it's very early in the Mahler revival and there's a sense that the players don't quite understand how the music should sound.

Walter and Klemperer both worked directly with Mahler early on, though neither left a recording of the Sixth (Walter never conducted it even once and hated the work's pessimism). If you haven't heard it yet, definitely listen to the 1930s Bruno Walter Ninth.

I know Klaus Tennstedt is highly lauded as a Mahlerian, but I haven't heard any of his recordings. Would it be possible to describe his approach to Mahler's music in a few words? May be easier said than done, but I'm curious. Boulez I already know is a most excellent Mahler conductor, though I haven't heard his 6th.

Tennstedt's Mahler also tends towards slower tempi, but it's nothing like, say, Celibidache's Bruckner where everything is drawn out excessively. He brings out the innately polyphonic nature of the music by letting all of its layers breathe musically and shapes every phrase and every movement so that it has meaning for the whole, without playing down the disjunctive surface of the music. I feel some conductors treat Mahler's symphonies as if they were a collection of moments, but Tennstedt and Boulez both treat them as cohesive works without smoothing them out, which is especially important in the Sixth.

His live performances are generally best, but his studio recordings aren't bad either. None of his recordings have the vivid (very close-mic) sound that one finds on more recent renditions, but for me that's secondary.

[vers la flamme]

His later cycle tends to be slower and more drawn out, but it works surprisingly well and he gets wonderful playing from his orchestras. The NYPO set has a lot of fire, but it's very early in the Mahler revival and there's a sense that the players don't quite understand how the music should sound.

Walter and Klemperer both worked directly with Mahler early on, though neither left a recording of the Sixth (Walter never conducted it even once and hated the work's pessimism). If you haven't heard it yet, definitely listen to the 1930s Bruno Walter Ninth.

Tennstedt's Mahler also tends towards slower tempi, but it's nothing like, say, Celibidache's Bruckner where everything is drawn out excessively. He brings out the innately polyphonic nature of the music by letting all of its layers breathe musically and shapes every phrase and every movement so that it has meaning for the whole, without playing down the disjunctive surface of the music.

His live performances are generally best, but his studio recordings aren't bad either. None of his recordings have the vivid (very close-mic) sound that one finds on more recent renditions, but for me that's secondary.

I'm not much for historical orchestral recordings, but I'll have to hear the Walter/Vienna 9th at least once. Right now I'm looking into getting his Columbia SO 9th from shortly before his death. 

Thanks for the description of Tennstedt. That does sound interesting. The big box on Warner/EMI used to be really cheap, and contains all his studio recordings plus a handful of live. I was considering getting it at one point (before I bought the Bernstein cycle) but I don't think I need that much Mahler at this point. But I'll owe it to myself to check him out at least.

[Biffo]

For what it is worth, these are now distant memories, I heard Tennstedt conduct the Resurrection Symphony with  the LPO and it left no impression whatsoever, unlike Levine and the LSO (stunning) and Mehta and the Philharmonia (stunningly bad) in the same work.

[krummholz]

I'm steeped in the Sixth right now (preparing a large-scale paper and presentation on the work) and I can't ever seem to stop finding new things in it. Schoenberg was right when he said it's a work in which absolutely nothing is superfluous.

I used to be obsessed with the 6th back when I was an undergrad at Michigan. Will never forget the discussions I had with Professor Bolcom on the work. He was much less impressed with it than I - and ultimately got on my case for being too deeply into it - he said I was "emotionally interested in Mahler" and needed to broaden my horizons. I can't say that he was wrong!

But I still consider it Mahler's most tightly argued and motivically unified symphony. I totally agree with Schoenberg that there is nothing superfluous in it.

[MusicTurner]

The Bertini and Currentzis recordings made the work click for me - leaving somehow more space, broadness and varied details to the work, both sonically and as regards the interpretation, than some of the more hectic versions, Scherchen/Leipzig being the extreme example. In both cases, a timing around 83 minutes. I could survive with Currentzis only.

[Mahlerian]

I used to be obsessed with the 6th back when I was an undergrad at Michigan. Will never forget the discussions I had with Professor Bolcom on the work. He was much less impressed with it than I - and ultimately got on my case for being too deeply into it - he said I was "emotionally interested in Mahler" and needed to broaden my horizons. I can't say that he was wrong!

But I still consider it Mahler's most tightly argued and motivically unified symphony. I totally agree with Schoenberg that there is nothing superfluous in it.

My own current composition teacher is far less enamored of Mahler than I am, even though our tastes are otherwise quite similar. What was Bolcom like as a teacher? I only know a few of his songs and miscellaneous piano works.

[André]

The Bertini and Currentzis recordings made the work click for me - leaving somehow more space, broadness and varied details to the work, both sonically and as regards the interpretation, than some of the more hectic versions, Scherchen/Leipzig being the extreme example. In both cases, a timing around 83 minutes. I could survive with Currentzis only.

I think Currentzis is the current (pun not intended) modern reference.

[krummholz]

My own current composition teacher is far less enamored of Mahler than I am, even though our tastes are otherwise quite similar. What was Bolcom like as a teacher? I only know a few of his songs and miscellaneous piano works.

Bolcom was a very supportive kind of teacher, at least to me. He did his best to encourage me through a very fallow period. He did not do any extensive formal training with me, though I recall he had me working counterpoint exercises for a while. I remember him as one of the two composition teachers there that I really liked - the other was Albright, who shepherded me through writing a movement for string quartet that eventually became my String Quartet No. 1, some 45 years later. I didn't finish anything of any consequence while working with Bolcom, though that was certainly my fault not his.

[vers la flamme]

Could someone recommend me a good book about Mahler? Please, don't say de la Grange. I'm not looking to read four massive tomes about his life right now, just something that works as an overview of his life and works with maybe a good balance of musical and biographical analysis. Is that too much to ask for? 

[Mahlerian]

Could someone recommend me a good book about Mahler? Please, don't say de la Grange. I'm not looking to read four massive tomes about his life right now, just something that works as an overview of his life and works with maybe a good balance of musical and biographical analysis. Is that too much to ask for? 

This one was pretty good, although I think the author leans too far towards the Adorno view of Mahler as pessimist:

[Papy Oli]

Could someone recommend me a good book about Mahler? Please, don't say de la Grange. I'm not looking to read four massive tomes about his life right now, just something that works as an overview of his life and works with maybe a good balance of musical and biographical analysis. Is that too much to ask for? 

For single tomes, I enjoyed the Blaukopfs :

[ritter]

It's a pity the condensed La Grange has not been translated into English AFAIK. It is available in French, Italian and Spanish. Actually, two friends and myself started translating it into Spanish several years ago (after on if us received a verbal go ahead from the author), but were beat to publication by another chap.

[vers la flamme]

It's a pity the condensed La Grange has not been translated into English AFAIK. It is available in French, Italian and Spanish. Actually, two friends and myself started translating it into Spanish several years ago (after on if us received a verbal go ahead from the author), but were beat to publication by another chap.

Hmm, I can read French. Might look into that then.

Thanks much, guys. I ordered a copy of the Blaukopfs' book (which seems to contain a lot of unedited primary sources, correspondence and such) and the Fischer looks good too, but I'm looking for a cheaper copy. At the same time I just ordered the full score to Das Lied von der Erde for quite cheap, so I'm very much looking forward to getting that! I don't own any Mahler scores and it's high time I changed that.

[ritter]

Hmm, I can read French. Might look into that then.

It's this one:

[asin]B005OKYQS8[/asin]
Much cheaper in Europe, but OOP as far as I can see. Perhaps AbeBooks has cheaper copies.

[Herman]

Well, I think I've descended, at least temporarily, back into full-swing Mahler Mania.

Did you get a doctor to test you for this?

[Herman]

I'm steeped in the Sixth right now (preparing a large-scale paper and presentation on the work) and I can't ever seem to stop finding new things in it. Schoenberg was right when he said it's a work in which absolutely nothing is superfluous.

I'm very much interested in the Sixth, too, now.

Which I haven't been for such a long time that I can't even find a recording in my house, so I have order the Boulez.