Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[Bonehelm]

Other than a few offers from Amazon sellers, I believe the Neumann is only available now as part of this box set:



The Oskar Fried Resurrection is an important historical document, being the first complete recording of any Mahler symphony (1924). The sound quality of this acoustic recording is ghastly though; it requires tolerance and imagination to fill in the blanks. It's available from several sources, including this box of historical performances (Mengelberg 4, Walter 5, 9, Das Lied, etc) and Naxos:





Sarge

It's ok, I like my Mahler fried 

[longears]

Yes, I'm not a big fan of the 8th yet either but am hoping that if it's a good recording, the Boulez may change my mind.

By the way, does anyone know if they're planning to release Boulez's Mahler in a box set in the near future? I don't have any of the individual releases yet and am wondering if it would be worth waiting for this or not?

This is probably my favorite cycle, along with Kubelik.  I like Boulez's clarity and restraint--Mahler's so over-the-top to begin with that wallowing in his excesses usually strikes me as maudlin.  After a more careful hearing of the 8th tonight, I still dislike the bombast of much of Part I, but Boulez's team carries it off well enough, if you like that sort of thing.  Where this symphony and this recording really shine is in most of Part II, the Faust scene.  To my ears this is magnificent, with beautiful playing from the orchestra and lovely singing by all--except for the bass, Robert Holl, whose tone I don't like and whose pitch seems off throughout the Pater profundus.  The ending, of course, gets a bit bombastic again for my tastes, but I don't fault the performance for that.   In short, it seems to me a very good recording of a very flawed symphony.  YMMV. 

[drogulus]

     Both Kubeliks are great, IMO.

     

     The Audite is a live performance with (mostly) the same forces that made the studio recording on DG.

[Symphonien]

This is probably my favorite cycle, along with Kubelik.  I like Boulez's clarity and restraint--Mahler's so over-the-top to begin with that wallowing in his excesses usually strikes me as maudlin.  After a more careful hearing of the 8th tonight, I still dislike the bombast of much of Part I, but Boulez's team carries it off well enough, if you like that sort of thing.  Where this symphony and this recording really shine is in most of Part II, the Faust scene.  To my ears this is magnificent, with beautiful playing from the orchestra and lovely singing by all--except for the bass, Robert Holl, whose tone I don't like and whose pitch seems off throughout the Pater profundus.  The ending, of course, gets a bit bombastic again for my tastes, but I don't fault the performance for that.   In short, it seems to me a very good recording of a very flawed symphony.  YMMV. 

Thanks a lot for the review longears! I will probably wait to see if Boulez's Mahler will be released in a box set, in which case I will surely buy it.

[longears]

FWIW, I did some comparison listening yesterday of sections with a few other recordings, then returned to Boulez's 8th.  This third time through I was swept away by the music, the pacing of the performance, the beauty of the vocalists and instrumental soloists, and the sound quality of the recording.  Once again I'm discovering that an ambitious work by a great composer more than repays the time and effort required for me to make more than a nodding acquaintance with it.

[knight66]

I like piano transcriptions; amongst my favourites is Liszt's spectacular take on Beethoven's 9th. Not all are a success. There is a dirge-like four hand adaptation of the Brahms Requiem. Here is one that falls between these two extremes.

Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde: Brigitte Fassbaender, Thomas Moser, Cyprien Katsaris.

I was blind listening and soon into the first song, I could tell that this was not the piano reduction/vocal score I have. It is more complex; but also at points, the melodies that are passed amongst the orchestra seem to disappear momentarily. On reading the linear notes, I discovered that the version is by Mahler himself and does indeed have noticeable differences from the published orchestral score. There are several jolts as the vocal lines go in a different direction now and then.

Whose conception is it when we get a performance without a conductor? No one suggests that Klemperer's recording is a collaboration with Christa Ludwig. It is always discussed in terms of what Klemperer is doing with the shape of the piece. But here, I expect there is more consensus. The speeds are sane, no extremes.

The voices are all the more exposed and where there is strain, there is no submerging it into the textures, it is painfully there. The recording was made in 1990, already Fassbaender's voice is loosening and sustained notes bring out a pronounced beat. Moser would struggle considerably up against an orchestra and his top notes are at the limit of his range and attained through willpower. All this sounds somewhat negative; but there is a lot of pleasure to be had.

There is an intimacy and a deep concentration. The singers can mostly be heard as equal partners rather than one to many. Each song goes well and Fassbaender continually compells attention, able to fine her tone to a beautiful thread. 'Am Ufer' is especially successful on the piano, the percussive effects when the riders splash through the water. Although fast, that section is not rushed.

Moser comes off best in his second song, delicate, ironic.

Although the first song can sound like an epic, it is really the tenor's last song that is the most difficult with a generally high tessetura.

The kernel of the cycle is the final song; if it is a flop, the entire performance is lost. Here, Fassbaender and Katsaris work hand in glove. There is not the ebb and flow of an orchestral version. Nor are there the telling silences of the full version. But it is varied in tone and the long instrumental middle section is done with repeated chording producing a hypnotic effect. Kubelik turns this into an entire compressed symphony, but the piano provides something different, not lesser.

At the end, it fades rather than the sound melting, the percussive piano cannot emulate that disintegration of a soundworld. But it is ultimately moving with the singer managing to pull off diminuendos into nothingness, yet still singing.

So, more than a curiosity, less than the full experience.

Mike

[samuel]

i'm pretty much a mahler n00b... i started listening to mahler's symphonies a little while back but i just couldn't really get into them until recently when i finally found out what my problem was - i was listening to extremely long, over-romanticized interpretations that didn't really suit my listening style/boredom tolerance. i guess i understand mahler's music much better when it is interpreted in a more "classical" style (e.g. Szell's 6th and Reiner's 4th) so i was wondering if anyone has any recommendations based on what i just said if that makes any sense lol...

[knight66]

If you are prepared to accept that Das Lied is a symphony of sorts; then Klemperer or Boulez would possibly suit you.

In fact Boulez may be someone whose Symphonic cycle might be your cup of tea. Certainly not at the romantic extreme, some are almost severely classical in approach. Have a look on the web for reviews of his Mahler.

Some may be here...
http://www.classicstoday.com/search.asp

Or here
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/classrev.htm

Mike

[bhodges]

If you are prepared to accept that Das Lied is a symphony of sorts; then Klemperer or Boulez would possibly suit you.

In fact Boulez may be someone whose Symphonic cycle might be your cup of tea. Certainly not at the romantic extreme, some are almost severely classical in approach. Have a look on the web for reviews of his Mahler.

Some may be here...
http://www.classicstoday.com/search.asp

Or here
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/classrev.htm

Mike

Yes, I second Mike's suggestion for Boulez, who conducts Mahler as if x-raying the scores--with often quite interesting results. 

--Bruce

[Papy Oli]

Samuel,

To follow Mike's and Bruce's recommendations, you can have a taster of Boulez on Mahler's 2nd there :

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,2599.msg74870.html#msg74870

great performance indeed.

[samuel]

thank you ill def have to check out boulez 

[Renfield]

May I put in a word for the Gielen box set on Hänssler Classic?



I finally got my hands on it recently, and am tempted to call it the most all-round accomplished Mahler box set I've come across, bar none!

Particularly certain symphonies, like the 2nd, are superbly done indeed. And there's not a recording in there that's less than "very good".

(In my opinion, of course. But I really was impressed - much further than even from the excellent Bertini set, on EMI.)

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

May I put in a word for the Gielen box set on Hänssler Classic?

I finally got my hands on it recently, and am tempted to call it the most all-round accomplished Mahler box set I've come across, bar none!

Particularly certain symphonies, like the 2nd, are superbly done indeed. And there's not a recording in there that's less than "very good".

(In my opinion, of course. But I really was impressed - much further than even from the excellent Bertini set, on EMI.)

I remember papy being very impressed by the Second, too. I am intrigued.

making mental note

[Greta]

May I put in a word for the Gielen box set on Hänssler Classic?

Mouthwatering, that is! I have preferred turning to individual performances rather than sets, but that is a set there I definitely want.

I absolutely adore his 5th, I have a great many but his approach is stunning, and the playing is fantastic in great sound, very nuanced.

Now how much does that set run, and where could I find it...

[Symphonien]

Hmm... I was considering that, but I think I'll buy a few individual releases instead since they include some very enticing couplings not in the box set including Kurtag's Stele, Schoenberg's Kol Nidre, Boulez's Rituel: In Memoriam Bruno Maderna as well as an orchestral version of his Notations, Berg's Three Pieces, part of Schubert's unfinished 10th... to name the ones that appeal to me most. Above all though, I am very interested in hearing Kurtag's Stele, and the only other recording available is Abbado's which is much more expensive and comes on a single disc of 44 minutes. Not to mention Gielen's comes with what I hear is a great recording of one my favourite symphonies!

[Papy Oli]

I remember papy being very impressed by the Second, too. I am intrigued.

making mental note

Damn right I was, and still am !! ...  .. I have had that boxset in my shopping trolley ever since i bought his resurrection...i just need to make a mental note to spend my money on it 

Greta, not sure about prices on the US side of the pond, but the set can be had new for €89.99 + shipping on JPC, cheaper there than Amazon UK.

[Renfield]

Damn right I was, and still am !! ...  .. I have had that boxset in my shopping trolley ever since i bought his resurrection...i just need to make a mental note to spend my money on it 

Greta, not sure about prices on the US side of the pond, but the set can be had new for €89.99 + shipping on JPC, cheaper there than Amazon UK.

I got it for around €75 + shipping from Amazon.de, if I remember correctly.

And do buy it! "Nuanced", like Greta observed, and incredibly well-thought-out readings, superbly executed (if with a very few orchestral slips - I counted 3 in the entire "Resurrection"); in great sound...

It very much might be the only Mahler set I have that does not contain one performance that is in any way substandard, as I hinted above: at its "worst", it's "the thinking man's Mahler" when a more forceful approach could also have worked.

And at its best, it is simply definitive. I really don't think I've heard the 2nd Symphony more "just right". And it's not only the second.


Have I convinced those on the brink? So I hope.

[Bonehelm]

God Dudamel's M5 is horrible, there's no excitement or forward drive from the orchestra at all...it's all one piece of very boring and long background music under his baton. The playing level of his youth orchestra is remarkable, though.

[The new erato]

Any opinions on this:



Symphonies Nos. 7 & 9 and Das Lied von der Erde

Grace Hoffman - Contralto
Ernst Haefliger - Tenor

Radio Orchestra Baden-Baden, Kölner Rundfunk Orchestra / Hans Rosbaud

Mahler's Symphonies No. 7 and No. 9 conducted by Hans Rosbaud Coupled with Mahler's symphonic song cycle "Lied von der Erde" with Grace Hoffman and Ernst Haefliger.

Recordings from 1954 and 1957

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I am at last listening to Gielen's Second - outstanding.