Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[Scarpia]

The Second was my first Mahler too: a library copy of the Klemperer studio performance. The library didn't have any more Mahler. I heard my next Mahler on the radio: the Fifth, a New York Phil concert (I assume Lenny was conducting). Next I heard the Sixth live in Cleveland, conducted by Szell. At that point I was truly hooked. I was 18.

And if, as you imply, it convinced you to enlist in the Army to fight in Vietnam, I think I can make a case for the work being banned!  They probably play it in Taliban Mosques in Kandahar.   

[kishnevi]

Since we're onto "my first Mahler"--
I have to admit that I don't remember what it was, or when.  But undoubtedly it was on what used to be Miami's classical music station, the now long gone WTMI, because that's how I got my music as a teenager.

My first Mahler CD is much easier for me to pinpoint: Haitink's 4th with Elly Ameling and the Concertgebouw Orchestra (at that time, they were not yet "Royal").

My second was Levine's 5th with the Philadelphia Orchestra.

And there I stopped.  Partly because my budget for CDs was not as big as it is now (or, more precisely, because back then I paid attention to my budget for CDs) and partly because my focus then was on opera and baroque, and partly because classical radio was alive and well back then, so my own CD library was not so important.

I didn't come back to Mahler until twenty years or more, when I started to buy CDs again once classical radio in any format seemed to have completely died. 

But I've kind of made up for the neglect since then: a rough count indicates that, while I have more recordings of  Bach than  of any other composer, Mahler and Beethoven are neck and neck for second place, with about 100 each.  (My CD collection looks large, but apparently pales in comparison to many others here.)

[Marc]

[....]
My first Mahler CD is much easier for me to pinpoint: Haitink's 4th with Elly Ameling and the Concertgebouw Orchestra (at that time, they were not yet "Royal").

That was my first vinyl Mahler, still my favourite 4th. IMO, Elly Ameling is ideal for the Finale song. 0:)

[Sergeant Rock]

That was my first vinyl Mahler, still my favourite 4th. IMO, Elly Ameling is ideal for the Finale song. 0:)

She is marvelous...I have a vinyl copy too...but, Haitink takes the music faster than I like.

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

And if, as you imply, it convinced you to enlist in the Army to fight in Vietnam, I think I can make a case for the work being banned!

The reasons, the relationhships, the events that led me to war were more complicated than a single hearing of a Mahler symphony, but hearing it did have a profound effect on my personal philosophy, and that philosophy had a profound effect on my life.

Sarge

[greg]

My first Mahler was actually listening to the slow movements of the 1st and 5th from some "relaxing classical" set I found in my house. 

After that, I started checking out CDs from the library, since at the time, I was actually living in an area with a good library system with tons of great stuff (which I even used to work for). I'm not sure at all which symphony was the first one I listened to completely, but if I had to make a guess, it would be his 5th. Before I listened, I had been reading on this forum some criticisms, and they influenced my opinion of it, even though I didn't even really listen that well. After that, probably the 1st... then later on, all but 7, 8, and 10, which came later.

I never really had an epiphany, or any specific moment when I was like, "Aha! This is the best thing ever!"- it just grew on me after the course of a year or so.

[Marc]

She is marvelous...I have a vinyl copy too...but, Haitink takes the music faster than I like.

Well, I mentioned this before somewhere on this board (if I remember well), but Mahler himself wrote in 1900 to Natalie Bauer-Lechner that the entire symphony should last forty-five minutes! He even made a note of the durations in his own autograph score: 15, 10, 11, 8 and the total of 44!
Poco adagio apparently means just a little bit on the slow side or somewhat slowly. He wrote to Bauer-Lechner that in fact it should be played as a 'Moderato'.
So: in this case Haitink is in fact slow, as are all his fellow conductors.
Klemperer (EMI) and Kubelik (DG) are 'relatively' fast in the 3rd movement, and overall Kubelik comes rather close to Mahler's wishes, with a total duration of 52 minutes.

I once read that a conductor (forgot his name) said something like if Mahler would have wanted the Fourth to last one hour, he would have written more notes.

[DarkAngel]

Two more Abbado DVDs ordered, I have complete Abbado set except no 1st or 8th DVD yet released......
Watching Abbado 7th as I write this



Even if you already have the 1970s Bernstein DVD set this newer set by Abbado is very desireable, the picture and sound quality are far superior and Abbado arguably best living Mahler conductor.

As always DVD cost not much more than CD only release........do what must be done 

[Sergeant Rock]

Well, I mentioned this before somewhere on this board (if I remember well), but Mahler himself wrote in 1900 to Natalie Bauer-Lechner that the entire symphony should last forty-five minutes! He even made a note of the durations in his own autograph score: 15, 10, 11, 8 and the total of 44!

I know. If he were alive today, I'd have a very stern talk with him 

Poco adagio apparently means just a little bit on the slow side or somewhat slowly. He wrote to Bauer-Lechner that in fact it should be played as a 'Moderato'.
So: in this case Haitink is in fact slow, as are all his fellow conductors.
Klemperer (EMI) and Kubelik (DG) are 'relatively' fast in the 3rd movement, and overall Kubelik comes rather close to Mahler's wishes, with a total duration of 52 minutes.

Seriously, I'm not disputing anything you've written. It's just a personal preference for a slower tempo and, lucky for me, several conductors give me what I want: Maazel, Chailly, Svetlanov    Still, I'd love to hear Ameling at a slower tempo too.

Sarge

[Marc]

I know. If he were alive today, I'd have a very stern talk with him 

Seriously, I'm not disputing anything you've written. It's just a personal preference for a slower tempo and, lucky for me, several conductors give me what I want: Maazel, Chailly, Svetlanov    Still, I'd love to hear Ameling at a slower tempo too.

Actually, it wasn't really meant to dispute. Pleaze, keep your personal preferences!

I just remembered this story and couldn't find my earlier post. The search function wasn't helpful, either (it's a bad searching machine anyway).

For me: like Mahler himself, I prefer the 2nd movement in 10 minutes or so; a slower tempo makes it more spooky. Good example of this: Inbal/Frankfurt.
The 3rd movement can bear both a slow and a faster tempo IMO, as long as it keeps on flowing.
In the 4th part it depends on the (language?) skills of the singer. If the words become totally unintelligible, then the conductor should take a slower tempo. But I understand Mahler's wish for a fast tempo: it shows how excited the child has become by all what he's seeing!

[Drasko]

Still, I'd love to hear Ameling at a slower tempo too.

Sarge

You should be able to do that, in Audacity or any good audio editor there is option to change tempo while maintaining pitch. Never tried it myself but certain chap Barrington-Coupe had some moderate success with the procedure.

[Sergeant Rock]

You should be able to do that, in Audacity or any good audio editor there is option to change tempo while maintaining pitch. Never tried it myself but certain chap Barrington-Coupe had some moderate success with the procedure.

Yeah, but that's cheating 

Sarge

[Papy Oli]

Does it look like the Sinopoli cycle is getting a cheap re-issue ?



http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Gustav-Mahler-Symphonien-Nr-1-10/hnum/8178248

3CDs less than the original set... hmm...

[Opus106]

Does it look like the Sinopoli cycle is getting a cheap re-issue ?



http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Gustav-Mahler-Symphonien-Nr-1-10/hnum/8178248
3CDs less than the original set... hmm...

Yep. Saw the listing (sans cover) a couple of months back, and when it didn't appear on Amazon.com, I guessed that it was one of those Germany-only boxes from Universal. The new set contains only the symphonies and none of the lieder including DLvDE from the earlier one.

[Verena]

Yep. Saw the listing (sans cover) a couple of months back, and when it didn't appear on Amazon.com, I guessed that it was one of those Germany-only boxes from Universal. The new set contains only the symphonies and none of the lieder including DLvDE from the earlier one.

It does include at least some lieder: the cover heading (below "Die 10 Symphonien") reads "Orchesterlieder", i.e., 'orchestral songs'; the jpc homepage lists the following lieder as part of the contents: Das klagende Lied; Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen; 6 Frühe Lieder ('6 early songs'); Kindertotenlieder; so possibly no DLvDE 

[Renfield]

Does it look like the Sinopoli cycle is getting a cheap re-issue ?



http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Gustav-Mahler-Symphonien-Nr-1-10/hnum/8178248

3CDs less than the original set... hmm...

Yes!

His cycle is IIRC the only 'major' complete one I'm missing, if you don't count Svetlanov (historical) or Inbal (is it really 'major'?) - the main snag having been the price. Most excellent news: thank you.

[Drasko]

....none of the lieder including DLvDE from the earlier one.

The cover lists Staatskapelle Dresden and the only Mahler Sinopoli recorded with them for DG is Das Lied von der Erde.

[Scarpia]

Does it look like the Sinopoli cycle is getting a cheap re-issue ?



http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Gustav-Mahler-Symphonien-Nr-1-10/hnum/8178248

3CDs less than the original set... hmm...

My one concern with these German Eloquences is the "AMSI" logo which stands for "Ambient Surround Imaging."  There is very little information available as to what this means, but it seems to be a scheme where the CDs are encoded for Dolby Pro-logic surround processing. 

I got one one of these releases (Guarneri Quartet Beethoven cycle) and it sounded odd.  I ended up selling it off to get the Brilliant Classics issue of the same recordings, which I liked better.

[Opus106]

It does include at least some lieder: the cover heading (below "Die 10 Symphonien") reads "Orchesterlieder", i.e., 'orchestral songs'; the jpc homepage lists the following lieder as part of the contents: Das klagende Lied; Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen; 6 Frühe Lieder ('6 early songs'); Kindertotenlieder; so possibly no DLvDE 

The cover lists Staatskapelle Dresden and the only Mahler Sinopoli recorded with them for DG is Das Lied von der Erde.

My bad. I assume the works are more horrifically split among the fewer number of CDs, then.

[kishnevi]

While following a commodious vicus of recirculation on the Intertubes, I found this
http://www.gustavmahler2010.cz/Mahler-Hudba.aspx
which is heavily populated by the Neumann/Czech Philharmonic cycle, although not completely, so it may be of interest to anyone who doesn't have the Neumann cycle but is interested in it.