Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[The new erato]

Should the People's Box figure into my "first Mahler cycle" shopping considerations? It is at pretty much exactly the same price as Bertini and Tennstedt. Currently my guess is Bertini makes the best intro...?

Bertini is far cheaper in Europe, check the price on mdt.co.uk eg.

[Brian]

Bertini is far cheaper in Europe, check the price on mdt.co.uk eg.

People's box 25 pounds MDT, Bertini 18.50 pounds MDT. Yeah, I guess that's ten bucks.

[mc ukrneal]

People's box 25 pounds MDT, Bertini 18.50 pounds MDT. Yeah, I guess that's ten bucks.

Plus you get a really good version of Das Lied with Bertini. On the other hand, there is something to be said for a variety of approaches (and many of them are considered top choices). Then again, you can find most of them separately if you are interested.

[Sergeant Rock]

Should the People's Box figure into my "first Mahler cycle" shopping considerations? It is at pretty much exactly the same price as Bertini and Tennstedt. Currently my guess is Bertini makes the best intro...?

You probably already know that Hurwitz thinks so: "...on balance this is the finest complete Mahler cycle available." I would modify that by saying it's the safest Mahler cycle. There's really nothing wrong with it, much to admire, but in my case, not enough to love. Excepting the Ninth, it just doesn't stir my passions. It's too straightforward for me; no interpretive quirks leap out. It's just pure Mahler...which is a good thing, I guess, and perhaps for that reason does make the best introduction. For the price, a steal. (One caveat: my computer refuses to play some of the discs; I don't know why. They play normally in my CD players.)

Although everyone but DavidW is disappointed by the contents of the People's Edition--because most of us already own many if not all the performances (I do)--it's also an excellent choice for the Mahler newbie. Excepting Karajan's Fourth, these are all admired performances. In your case I would say a purchase depends on how deep you think you might get into Mahler. If you think he'll remain on the periphery of your musical interests, buy it and be happy that you have some of the best Mahler money can buy. Otherwise you may find it redundant when the Abbado and Bernstein cycles call out to you 

Sarge

[jlaurson]

Although everyone but DavidW is disappointed by the contents of the People's Edition--because most of us already own many if not all the performances (I do)--it's also an excellent choice for the Mahler newbie. Excepting Karajan's Fourth, these are all admired performances. In your case I would say a purchase depends on how deep you think you might get into Mahler...

What he said. Also check first how it really ended up differing from the Mahler Edition on the same label... and then maybe get that. But either of those "BEST OF" cycles on UNI are ideal beginner's non-cycles that I'd recommend over any one-conductor cycle.

[DavidW]

I had sold off most of my Mahler recordings a few years back when I found Gielen and Bertini to be my favorites... but I yearn for diversity.  And as Sarge said, if you don't have these recordings, this is a good box.

[DavidRoss]

Should the People's Box figure into my "first Mahler cycle" shopping considerations? It is at pretty much exactly the same price as Bertini and Tennstedt. Currently my guess is Bertini makes the best intro...?

I'm with Sarge & Jens, Brian.  Bertini is solid throughout but seldom inspiring in the way that, say, Bernstein's WP 5th moves me.  It's a fine "beginners can't go wrong" first cycle due to its uniform quality and vision at a great price.  But if price weren't an issue, I'd recommend Kubelik instead, or maybe even Boulez (!).  However, the "People's Box" is a fine offering, with half the selections among the best choices available and the rest still quite good. (Perhaps Karajan's 4th is the exception.  I've not heard it in years, but a roommate had it on LP back in the '70s and I liked it then.  But good 4ths abound and Szell's has long been at bargain basement prices.)

Re. Sarge's point about how deep you might get into Mahler:  I suspect the best performances in the People's Box are more likely to intoxicate you with Mahler fever, but also more likely to satisfy you enough to feel less need for supplementary recordings.

Either way you can't go wrong!  (Oh, and if you go the PB route, Klemperer's DLVDE is a great choice to fill that hole!)

[Scarpia]

To reinterate:

CD1 Symphony no. 1: Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra / KUBELIK
CD 2 Symphony no. 2 "Resurrection": Wiener Philharmoniker / MEHTA
CD 3 – 4 Symphony no. 3: Berliner Philharmoniker / ABBADO
CD 5 Symphony no. 4: Berliner Philharmoniker / KARAJAN
CD 6 Symphony no. 5: Wiener Philharmoniker / BERNSTEIN
CD 7 – 8 Symphony no. 6: Wiener Philharmoniker / BERNSTEIN
CD 9 Symphony no. 7: Berliner Philharmoniker / ABBADO
CD 10 Symphony no. 8: Chicago Symphony Orchestra / SOLTI
CD 11 – 12 Symphony no. 9: Chicago Symphony Orchestra / GIULINI
CD 13 Symphony no. 10: Radio Symphony Orchestra Berlin / CHAILLY

I'm disappointed that the recordings are all rather standard choices, but I can't dispute the quality, generally.  My main quibble is that Karajan really did some wonderful Mahler and the one that ended up in here is my least favorite.  I think his 5  is splendid, but perhaps Bernstein's 5 can reasonably supersede it because it is the epitome of Bersteinian excess.  If I could change the list, I would have put in the Haitink/Ameling 4 (there really should be some Haitink) and given Karajan the 6th.  Karajan's slow movement in that recording is really a thing apart, and the opening movement, although lacking the Soltian savagery that some prefer, has a brooding, menacing quality that serves the music perfectly.

But I think Universal missed an opportunity.  They could have anticipated that the peoples edition would turn out to be mostly standard stuff, so they should have made their self-picked set more out-of-the-ordinary.  Maybe a "Rebirth of Mahler" set in which they collect all of the early recordings on Decca/Philips/DG.   (There must be some van Beinem, and similar stuff, in the can, no?)  Then they'd have a set for newbies and a set for fanatics.  Now they have two newbie sets.

[DavidW]

I'm surprised to see that Mehta is on the list which is Decca and not DG.  Have they merged?  I guess so.

Isn't Haitink on the Philips label Scarpia?  How could it be in that cycle if it belongs to a different company?  I don't see anything on the list that is not dg/decca.

[Scarpia]

I'm surprised to see that Mehta is on the list which is Decca and not DG.  Have they merged?  I guess so.

Isn't Haitink on the Philips label Scarpia?  How could it be in that cycle if it belongs to a different company?  I don't see anything on the list that is not dg/decca.

Polygram, the parent of DG, took over Decca and Philips in the 70's.  Now they're called "Universal" I believe.  It is only recently that they have decided that they don't have to keep the catalogs strictly separate.  As of a few years ago Universal no longer has the right to publish Philips recordings under the Philips trademark, and they are called Decca now.  For years Decca and Philips have not had independent offices, they are just a trademark for DG.

The people's choice contest had several Philips options, but none made it, although three Decca recordings made it.

[DavidW]

Oh I see, I keep forgetting how much merging happened.

[Cato]

The Wall Street Journal recently carried an article by A.J. Goldman entitled Can There Be Too Much Mahler?

An excerpt:

"Great music never suffers at all from being performed beautifully, but just performing a composer more than he had been performed before can actually be a negative," Mr. Maazel explained backstage after the Duisburg concert. "There is nothing that turns people off more than a mediocre performance," he noted, "so managers and presenters have to be extremely careful that the music they wish to honor is being performed by people who are worthy of the task.

"Henry-Louis de La Grange, author of a monumental four-volume Mahler biography, strongly disagreed with these sentiments. "I think it couldn't possibly hurt to hear a lot of Mahler. After so much neglect, he deserves it. And I think it will help many people to understand Mahler even better," said Mr. de La Grange, 86, speaking by telephone from his home in Paris.

Today we know Mahler as the German-Jewish composer who, straddling the Romantic and Modern eras, produced a powerful and idiosyncratic body of work. But it is easy to forget just how new his popularity is. Not so long ago, a complete Mahler cycle was a once-in-a-lifetime event. Now, the excitement generated by Mahler's symphonies is attested to not only by the recent spate of concerts and the ever-growing catalog of recordings, but also by numerous recent appreciations from musicians and critics.

Much of his appeal seems to derive from the personal connection that people form to his music, but Mr. Maazel contends that rapturous devotion is out of place. "I'm not a Mahler fanatic. I just happen to love great music, and much of what he wrote is of the highest quality. Those who listen uncritically because they are fanatically involved are again doing a disservice to the music. . . . Not every note that he wrote—and this is true of any composer—is of the same quality."

See:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703720504575377163595791790.html?KEYWORDS=MAhler#articleTabs_comments

I agree with de La Grange: too much Mahler is not a problem!     

[Scarpia]

The Wall Street Journal recently carried an article by A.J. Goldman entitled Can There Be Too Much Mahler?

An excerpt:

"Great music never suffers at all from being performed beautifully, but just performing a composer more than he had been performed before can actually be a negative," Mr. Maazel explained backstage after the Duisburg concert. "There is nothing that turns people off more than a mediocre performance," he noted, "so managers and presenters have to be extremely careful that the music they wish to honor is being performed by people who are worthy of the task.

"Henry-Louis de La Grange, author of a monumental four-volume Mahler biography, strongly disagreed with these sentiments. "I think it couldn't possibly hurt to hear a lot of Mahler. After so much neglect, he deserves it. And I think it will help many people to understand Mahler even better," said Mr. de La Grange, 86, speaking by telephone from his home in Paris.

Today we know Mahler as the German-Jewish composer who, straddling the Romantic and Modern eras, produced a powerful and idiosyncratic body of work. But it is easy to forget just how new his popularity is. Not so long ago, a complete Mahler cycle was a once-in-a-lifetime event. Now, the excitement generated by Mahler's symphonies is attested to not only by the recent spate of concerts and the ever-growing catalog of recordings, but also by numerous recent appreciations from musicians and critics.

Much of his appeal seems to derive from the personal connection that people form to his music, but Mr. Maazel contends that rapturous devotion is out of place. "I'm not a Mahler fanatic. I just happen to love great music, and much of what he wrote is of the highest quality. Those who listen uncritically because they are fanatically involved are again doing a disservice to the music. . . . Not every note that he wrote—and this is true of any composer—is of the same quality."

See:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703720504575377163595791790.html?KEYWORDS=MAhler#articleTabs_comments

I agree with de La Grange: too much Mahler is not a problem!     

That there could be too much of any composer seems like a silly assertion, since anyone fed up with Mahler, or any other composer, could simply decided not to attend.  Concerns that too much of composer A results in not enough of composer B makes more sense.

[DavidW]

Until any composer gets as much air time as say the snot-nosed Justin Bieber I don't think there is a thing as too much air time for any composer.

[greg]

Until any composer gets as much air time as say the snot-nosed Justin Bieber I don't think there is a thing as too much air time for any composer.

My radio alarm clock once woke me up to the tune "Baaaaby... Ohhhh Baaaabyyyyy." It was one of the worst experiences in my life.

[DavidW]

If you haven't seen this check out Key of Awesome parody Greg-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_cGo0q7krk

[greg]

If you haven't seen this check out Key of Awesome parody Greg-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_cGo0q7krk

Haha. Nice! 



I still don't know what you call this... suspension seems the closest, though not quite it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_(music)#Escape_tone

Mahler once claimed "a Mahler 8th note is different from everyone else's 8th notes," and I know exactly what he's talking about. It's what he uses all the time- for example a C maj chord being held while the notes D (suspension) and then C (resolution) are being played, or, more strikingly, F maj while B to A as the line.

I still can't find the name for it... there has to be a name to describe this! 

[karlhenning]

Tonight the BSO are playing Harbison's Third Symphony, and Mahler's Fifth (in that order).

The concert begins at 20:00 (Eastern), that is, in somewhat less than ten minutes. And will live stream here.

[greg]

Tonight the BSO are playing Harbison's Third Symphony, and Mahler's Fifth (in that order).

The concert begins at 20:00 (Eastern), that is, in somewhat less than ten minutes. And will live stream here.

Awesome! Just saw this and am looking forward to both. 

[karlhenning]

I'm late to it, as we dined late. But I've got Mahler up now.