Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

The "acceptance" part is nothing like Bruckner- as we go to sleep, we may fight trying to go to sleep all we want, but eventually we succumb to it. In the ending of the 9th, it's simply him succumbing to death, not "accepting" it.

I agree. The Ninth bleeds to death to these ears. No transcendence, no light, simply morendo and - gone.

[Marc]

In the ending of the 9th, it's simply him succumbing to death, not "accepting" it.

I agree. The Ninth bleeds to death to these ears. No transcendence, no light, simply morendo and - gone.

Kinda agree.

Das Lied von der Erde, Der Abschied: death in a transcendental light, with a new life glowing on the horizon, like an eternal repeat.
Symphony no. 9, Adagio: death as the end, an inevatable destiny, no matter our final resistance.

About the 7th: to me, it's character is similar to the 5th. From darkness to light. Overall, one of Mahler's optimistic creations IMO.

[Marc]

I think I agree. The 7th is a beautiful return to the soundworld of the Wunderhorn symphonies by someone now too old to be so innocent, which adds the dark colouring. I find it enchanting. And the opening movement is one of the best things Mahler ever did.

In fact, it's my favourite Mahler movement. It offers everything he has to give.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

In fact, it's my favourite Mahler movement. It offers everything he has to give.

Come to think of it, it might be mine, too. Other eternal favourites: I-3; III-1, 2, 3; IV; V-3; VI; the rest of VII; VIII-1; IX-1; X.

[klingsor]

Come to think of it, it might be mine, too. Other eternal favourites: I-3; III-1, 2, 3; IV; V-3; VI; the rest of VII; VIII-1; IX-1; X.

IX-1 - Andante Comodo, that's still my favorite Mahler movement. I agree with some who say it's the greatest movement in all his music. I think it contains a whole world of experience --nothing specific, I hate all the Mahler-biography-tied-to-music stuff. I hear it as a titanic struggle between some kind of transcendent nostalgia and an annihilating force. Life vs death? perhaps, but I like to just hear it as music, some of the most deeply beautiful music I have ever heard (and I've been listening to 'classical music' for decades). Just my 2-cents, of course 
I love Mahler so much that it's easier to just say the only movement of his I don't love is VII-5, the finale that just doesn't work for me because it goes on too long...again, just my humble opinion

[Opus106]

I love Mahler so much that it's easier to just say the only movement of his I don't love is VII-5, the finale that just doesn't work for me because it goes on too long...again, just my humble opinion

I began reading that sentence exactly as the jubilation of the movement started. About 15 minutes to go now.

[Marc]

I love Mahler so much that it's easier to just say the only movement of his I don't love is VII-5, the finale that just doesn't work for me because it goes on too long...again, just my humble opinion

I understand. I've always liked V-5 better. It somehow sounds more concentrated.
About movements that take too long IMO: I-IV & III-1.
Apologies for that 2nd choice, Jezetha. For the rest, I see we have much faves in common, like IV and VI in its entirety, and V-3, VII-1, VIII-1 & IX-1.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I understand. I've always liked V-5 better. It somehow sounds more concentrated.
About movements that take too long IMO: I-IV & III-1.
Apologies for that 2nd choice, Jezetha. For the rest, I see we have much faves in common, like IV and VI in its entirety, and V-3, VII-1, VIII-1 & IX-1.

No apologies necessary. III-1 isn't exactly a marvel of concision. But as it wants to portray, if at all musically possible, the awakening of Nature, it needs a big canvas. And I think Mahler fills it very well. Of course it sprawls a bit and takes its time, but I don't mind...

--Johan

[Marc]

No apologies necessary. III-1 isn't exactly a marvel of concision. But as it wants to portray, if at all musically possible, the awakening of Nature, it needs a big canvas. And I think Mahler fills it very well. Of course it sprawls a bit and takes its time, but I don't mind...

Should have placed a next to the apology.
Apart from that: in some performances, maybe caused by the movement's length, it feels like Nature is falling asleep ....

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Should have placed a next to the apology.
Apart from that: in some performances, maybe caused by the movement's length, it feels like Nature is falling asleep ....

  The God Pan in need of a reboot...

[klingsor]

Absolutely love M3-I. It's like M9-I, though utterly different, a world unto itself (to my ears). Even if M3-I sounds unwieldy (and it can in some perfs), it contains so many great moments that I never get impatient with it. In M3, I only get a little impatient with VI--the beloved slow finale that sometimes seems to go on too long for me

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Absolutely love M3-I. It's like M9-I, though utterly different, a world unto itself (to my ears). Even if M3-I sounds unwieldy (and it can in some perfs), it contains so many great moments that I never get impatient with it. In M3, I only get a little impatient with VI--the beloved slow finale that sometimes seems to go on too long for me

That's right. It's a symphony-within-a-symphony. And I love it for that.

[klingsor]

That's right. It's a symphony-within-a-symphony. And I love it for that.

I have always felt that is why Mahler designated the First Movement in M3 as Part One, and wants a long pause before the next movement.

[jlaurson]

I have always felt that is why Mahler designated the First Movement in M3 as Part One, and wants a long pause before the next movement.

AFAIK he didn't so much want a long pause before the next movement... he merely didn't object to it. :-)

[Florestan]

M3-I was the first Mahler I've ever heard. I was spellbound. I played it over and over again. It's still my favorite Mahler movement, followed by the Adagietto from the 5th and the Funeral March form the 1st.

[klingsor]

AFAIK he didn't so much want a long pause before the next movement... he merely didn't object to it. :-)

I have always heard that Mahler asks for the pause. From conversation with Natalie Bauer-Lechner:

I will make the first movement the first part and then have a long pause. Now I really
do want to call the whole piece "Pan, Symphonic Poems." . . .etc

[Brahmsian]

Currently, these are my personal Mahler symphony favorites (in approximate order).  It could and likely will change in the next hour or day!! 

#6
#9
#7
#5
#10 (incomplete or complete)
#3
#2
#1
#8
#4

[kishnevi]

I have always heard that Mahler asks for the pause. From conversation with Natalie Bauer-Lechner:

Perhaps that was from early on in the compositional process when he was still thinking of programmatic titles?

It's the Second Symphony in which he specifically called for a long pause after the first movement.

[klingsor]

Perhaps that was from early on in the compositional process when he was still thinking of programmatic titles?

It's the Second Symphony in which he specifically called for a long pause after the first movement.

No actually he asks for a long pause after M3-I

When it is performed, a short interval is sometimes taken between the first movement (which alone lasts around half an hour) and the rest of the piece. This is in agreement with the manuscript copy of the full score (held in the Pierpont Morgan Library, New York), where the end of the first movement carries the inscription Folgt eine lange Pause! ('there follows a long pause')

Admittedly not in the published score, but for me the manuscript and Mahler's correspondence are enough to support it.

[Herman]

I think I agree. The 7th is a beautiful return to the soundworld of the Wunderhorn symphonies by someone now too old to be so innocent, which adds the dark colouring. I find it enchanting. And the opening movement is one of the best things Mahler ever did.

The 7th has always been my favorite, too, though I have probably not managed to listen to the entire finale often, if I had the choice to walk away (i.e. at home). You can do the Seventh dark and you can do it semi-dark, and maybe you can even do an optimistic Seventh.

The most impressive Seventh I ever heard was in 1990 or 1991 at the Concertgebouw, Bernard Haitink visiting with the London Philharmonic (Haitink had only been away from the RCO a couple of years). It was pitch black, from the first timpani roll a couple bars in. The Scherzo was menacing, scary and the climax at the end of the cello-horn tune in the second Nachtmusik was hysterical.

One of the things I like about the Seventh is it is a very hard piece to reduce to cheap program talk. "When Mahler was writing this he was feeling X." You see this a lot, also on this thread, people who seem to have direct access to Mahler's thoughts and feelings and being able to put them in a few words, whereas Mahler himself needed hundreds of pages of music for it.