Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[DavidRoss]

I liked the the 7th right from the start, the 3rd not at all but listened occasionally out of a sense of duty until one day I suddenly loved it and now it's one of my faves. But I've never liked the 8th much and rarely choose to put it on.  Front-loaded with too much bombast, yet there is much loveliness within. 

P.S. Unlike Jens, I'd have thought that liking the 8th is to some degree affected, as the mark of the true Mahlerian who gets what lesser mortals fail to appreciate.

[MishaK]

The Third was my problem child too. Loved the first movement but couldn't get beyond that for...well, decades.

Really? How could you live without the last movement for so long? 

8 was and still is my problem child. I just can't warm up to it. Had trouble with 7 for a long while too but it's now a favorite.

[DavidW]

I never had trouble with the 7th, don't get why it's supposed to be "difficult".  The 8th is problematic due to the difficulty in hearing everything and hearing the gist of where everything is going.  On top of that the bombastic opening doesn't fit at all with the rest of the symphony.  In comparison, the 7th has a much stronger sense of narrative.

[Renfield]

One thing that applies to the 8th to a very great extent is the old 'you have to hear it live' caveat. Despite coming to love the 8th long before I heard it in concert, the experience really is quite enhanced by having it resolve itself around you (cf. 'planets and suns').

Presumably, those of you with extremely high-end audio systems that can precisely replicate concert hall acoustics may manage to replicate the experience, given a spectacularly well-recorded performance; but that (the latter) is in itself a great challenge.


Either way, the 'bombastic' ending (presumably the bit after that apotheosis of tenderness that is Alles Vergängliche) really does become - or to my ears became - a kind of aural picture of transcendence, rather than any sort of triumphal gesture, when you're 'in it'.

Which I guess may be the problem with many people: the being 'in it', in general - a core requirement to feeling the 8th, so to speak.

[springrite]

One thing that applies to the 8th to a very great extent is the old 'you have to hear it live' caveat. Despite coming to love the 8th long before I heard it in concert, the experience really is quite enhanced by having it resolve itself around you. Presumably, those of you with extremely high-end audio systems that can precisely replicate concert hall acoustics may have a similar experience, given a spectacularly well-recorded; which is in itself a great challenge.

Either way, the 'bombastic' ending (presumably the bit after that apotheosis of tenderness that is Alles Vergängliche) really does become - or to my ears became - a kind of aural picture of transcendence, rather than any sort of triumphal gesture, when you're 'in it'.

Which I guess may be the problem with many people: the being 'in it', in general - a core requirement to feeling the 8th, so to speak.

Sounds like someone else discussing the Gothic. 

I have heard neither one LIVE but based on the recording(s), I marginally prefer the Gothic, even though I am much more a Mahlerite and a Brianite.

[Renfield]

Sounds like someone else discussing the Gothic. 

I have heard neither one LIVE but based on the recording(s), I marginally prefer the Gothic, even though I am much more a Mahlerite and a Brianite.

Drat, you've quoted me before I was done editing. Now the versions are inconsistent! /pendant


But yes, I won't attempt to deny the charge of Johanning(!) over the Mahler 8th. I love the piece dearly.

[springrite]

Premature quotation deeply regretted.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Drat, you've quoted me before I was done editing. Now the versions are inconsistent! /pendant


But yes, I won't attempt to deny the charge of Johanning(!) over the Mahler 8th. I love the piece dearly.

Pardon?! 


I have always loved the opening movement of the Eighth, by the way....

[springrite]

I have always loved the opening movement of the Eighth, by the way....

It's the only part of the 8th that I like so far. At this rate, I should crack the work in its entirety before I reach 100, by which time I hope I still have my hearing in tact.

Good thing the work is loud enough.

[Renfield]

Premature quotation deeply regretted.

Pardon?! 

Whoever said it's a bad thing?!

'to Johan over' - to express passionate admiration; to effervesce apropos of something, or its qualities.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Whoever said it's a bad thing?!

'to Johan over' - to express passionate admiration; to effervesce apropos of something, or its qualities.

Detractors will take it as a synonym for 'to gush'! But it's a flattering neologism all the same.

[Renfield]

Detractors will take it as a synonym for 'to gush'! But it's a flattering neologism all the same.

'Detractors gonna detract', to adapt another neologism.

[eyeresist]

I think a large part of the reason for the difficulty of the 8th is that many (including myself) find operatic singing problematic.

[Opus106]

I think a large part of the reason for the difficulty of the 8th is that many (including myself) find operatic singing problematic.

My problem is "Romantic" operatic singing, which I find veers towards simply screaming/screeching at certain points. I have absolutely no prblem with Barouqe or Classical singing.

[eyeresist]

My problem is "Romantic" operatic singing, which I find veers towards simply screaming/screeching at certain points. I have absolutely no prblem with Barouqe or Classical singing.

Heh! Maybe Norrington will attempt to give us a Haydnesque 8th?

[Opus106]

Heh! Maybe Norrington will attempt to give us a Haydnesque 8th?

Don't want that either.

[jlaurson]

Don't want that either.

A lot of conductors try to de-pompositize the Mahler 8th, emphasizing the (plenty!) chamber-music-like qualities in it. Chailly likens it to Schoenberg's Kammersymphonie; Abbado's 8th for example, is very transparent. Wouldn't mind a Haydn-like approach to it. Especially not if it is like Haydn's Creation under McCreesh. :-)

[P.S. I don't actually think that the result of Chailly's recorded M8 is particularly great...]

[Opus106]

A lot of conductors try to de-pompositize the Mahler 8th, emphasizing the (plenty!) chamber-music-like qualities in it. Chailly likens it to Schoenberg's Kammersymphonie; Abbado's 8th for example, is very transparent.

Thanks for those suggestions. Will give those a try.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Being a  Wagnerian, I don't mind the singing. But why Part 2 of Symphony No. 8 isn't a movement I listen to very often is because the musical invention is too thin and, more importantly, there is no conflict. As there is nothing at stake, the whole piece becomes a series of static tableaux, with an assured outcome. (I have this problem too with Bruckner's Te Deum.) In Part 1 there is the threat of disintegration in the extended 'Accende' stretch in the middle, which makes the return of the 'Veni' all the more triumphant. No such dangers in Part 2.

[Marc]

Being a  Wagnerian, I don't mind the singing. But why Part 2 of Symphony No. 8 isn't a movement I listen to very often is because the musical invention is too thin and, more importantly, there is no conflict. As there is nothing at stake, the whole piece becomes a series of static tableaux, with an assured outcome. (I have this problem too with Bruckner's Te Deum.) In Part 1 there is the threat of disintegration in the extended 'Accende' stretch in the middle, which makes the return of the 'Veni' all the more triumphant. No such dangers in Part 2.

I agree entirely.
I sometimes feel that Movement 1 of this symphony is underrated.
Nevertheless I admit: it's sometimes too massive for my taste.
But the build-up is great, and the closing bars are breathtaking.