Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[Lisztianwagner]

Thank you Ilaria.

You're welcome

Here are excerpts from Pappano's Mahler No.6, I don't know if you have already listened to them....
http://www.amazon.com/Antonio-Pappano-Mahler-6/dp/B005WAO6JY

[madaboutmahler]

You're welcome

Here are excerpts from Pappano's Mahler No.6, I don't know if you have already listened to them....
http://www.amazon.com/Antonio-Pappano-Mahler-6/dp/B005WAO6JY

Thank you for these Ilaria. Have listened to them before, they certainly do sound a little slow, and maybe a little dull as well... I'd still be interested to hear the whole recording though. Do  you know the new Salonen release, Ilaria? This one looks tempting to me, but I remember Jens found it less than satisfying...

Have a nice evening Ilaria!

[Lisztianwagner]

Thank you for these Ilaria. Have listened to them before, they certainly do sound a little slow, and maybe a little dull as well... I'd still be interested to hear the whole recording though. Do  you know the new Salonen release, Ilaria? This one looks tempting to me, but I remember Jens found it less than satisfying...

Have a nice evening Ilaria!

Of course I had already heard about the new Salonen release, I remember you also posted a reply about it on the "New Releases" thread, didn't you?  I admit I'm rather curious to listen to the whole recording, I usually like Salonen's conducting style very much.

Hmm, maybe Jens might be right, at least about what concerns the first movement; when I listened to it, it didn't completely give me that impression of huge beauty, intensity and power I expect for Mahler's music.
But I don't want to judge it by listening to only the excerpts.....

Have a nice evening too Daniel!

[Opus106]

http://www.youtube.com/v/C4n9qurXr44

[Marc]

http://www.youtube.com/v/C4n9qurXr44

Wish I was born in the Big Apple around 1950 .... long live Lenny (and Gustav ).

[eyeresist]

No posts in this thread for a month - What the hell is going on with GMG?

I have recently become a fan of the 8th symphony. In fact, it happened last night. After my boss treated me to Xmas dinner (+ nice wine) I came home and, on a whim, put on the Bertini recording. (I have recently been trying to encounter the Mahler works less familiar to me: Das Klangende Lied, the songs, DLvdE, the 3rd symphony - but based on an initial negative impression hadn't thought to bother with the 8th).

The choice of the Bertini recording was, in retrospect, vital. The musicianship is excellent across the board, and the sound is terrific. Anyway, after my initial surprise at not being repulsed by the bombast of the opening, I listened through it, paying attention and discovering all sorts of lovely moments it, like sweet fruit in an especially rich Xmas pudding.

When it was over, without pausing, I put the Rattle recording in the CD player. The sound in comparison was disappointing (and the baritone had too much wobble on his low notes) but the interpretation really worked for me. Rattle's rhetorical gestures tied the work together and made it cohere. The only problem was the ending: maybe Rattle was tired, maybe the engineers didn't give the sound the heft that earlier sections had enjoyed, but it just lacked the necessary transcendent quality. Hopefully Rattle will fix this in a Berlin recording.

After this, it was time for Solti. Overall, it is a "mixed bag": Obviously the sound is older, but richer and more exciting than that given to Rattle. The sound congests in the climaxes, and actually breaks up badly at the end of part 1. There are a few aural oddities as the result of studio foolery. Also, the tenor on the right side of the stereo sounds like he is stuck down the bottom of a well - most unfortunate. There is some great singing, and moments of great beauty, but as always with Solti one feels that the final degree of delicacy can not be provided as needed.

I listened to the above on headphones. This morning I listened to Tennstedt's first recording on speakers. As much as I like Tennstedt in Mahler, I can't call this a great performance. The interpretation seems "bitty", without an overall vision. Also, the sound is not pleasant, and in part 2 a solo tenor flats some high notes painfully.

So at the moment I'd put Bertini and Rattle at the top of my list. The Bertini demonstrates the importance of good sound for recordings of this vastly complicated work, so I'm really not interested in older recordings. But easygoing Bertini is not the last word in interpretation; for that, I would turn to Rattle, despite the above equivocations.

Any other recommendations for the glorious 8th?



EDIT: I hesitate to make the comparison, but part 2 reminds me of side 2 of the Beatles Abbey Road album - in the way it is an overabundance of great individual moments that sort of tumble over each other in an orgy of melodism.

EDIT 2: I have so far not looked at the libretto. I am one who believes that music should not be subservient to prose, so I want to get familiar with the music before I get round to discovering what the singers are singing about.

[jlaurson]

Any other recommendations for the glorious 8th?

First and foremost, Ozawa. http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2006/07/alles-vergngliche-ozawas-mahler-eighth.html

Lacking availability, this one: http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2011/12/best-recordings-of-2011-3.html

EDIT 2: I have so far not looked at the libretto. I am one who believes that music should not be subservient to prose, so I want to get familiar with the music before I get round to discovering what the singers are singing about.

The composers whose music you appreciate might not agree with you. Faust II was elemental to Mahler.

[madaboutmahler]

Any other recommendations for the glorious 8th?

Glad you are becoming a fan of the 8th. Such a glorious, beautiful piece. I agree with most of the comments you say.
My highest recommendation for this symphony would be Sinopoli's, it is definitely my absolute favourite recording of the work. An absolutely stunning reading of the score, and a highlight of his cycle.
Here it is, coupled with an excellent reading of the adagio from 10.
[asin]B000024573[/asin]

I really cannot recommend it enough!

[Lisztianwagner]

Any other recommendations for the glorious 8th?

I definitely recommend Bernstein's version on DG, it's the most powerful, intense and passionate recording of Mahler No.8 I've ever listened to.

[Leo K.]

I agree regarding the Bertini from his EMi box set. The Bertini M8 is blazing, and impeccably paced with great uplifting detail...and the soloists are among the best blends I've heard. 

The DVD of Rattle's EMI commercial recording is better than the CD...oh man, the sound is miles above the CD, and the score is opened in a glorious rush of sound with interesting twists and turns, the tempos well chosen and very elegantly handled by the singers and instruments.  Splendid! 



The Boulez M8 is also very good, with great climaxes, and this CD has great sound.  His Part II is reminiscent of Maazel's reading (from his first cycle), in particular the slowness of the orchestral prelude, only with better sound. Edward Seckerson (Gramophone) stated that he never heard a performance that was so unidiomatic of Mahler, been so enjoyable to listen to.




I've been comparing MTT's M8 with Zinman's account and find I love both equally...with the MTT sounding better sonically. 

The MTT M8 sounds more impressive after each hearing.  What impresses me most is the playing of the SFSO and the sonics.  The playing sounds so esquisite and the sonics beautifully capture the acoustics of the hall. 



Both Witt and Gergiev revealed to me the true wonder and spirit of the M8...and frankly, these recordings make me truly love the M8, the hardest nut to crack in the Mahler canon for me.  I am totally floored and really, what can I really say to do justice to the power of these performances?

As I lover of echo and reverb, I was simply in heaven when listening to Gergiev's account (recorded in St.Paul's Cathedrel) but the details still shine through (like the Antoni Wit acccount on Naxos).

For me, the Horenstein, Gergiev and Witt are cosmic sounding M8s. They sound like Mahler's description of his original inspiration.

The Zinman and MTT, are among the most musical, and beautiful I have heard.

Rattle (EMI) and Inbal's (on Denon) accounts are among the most exciting.

There are so many...thank God!

[kishnevi]

I've listened over the past couple of days to two new DVD releases of M2--Gilbert/NYPhil and Chailly/Gewandhaus. (Both are released by Accentus.) A slight preference for the Chailly, although I haven't listened to either one enough to give detailed criticisms.   Two possible reasons--Chailly (who is filmed much more prominently than Gilbert) has a clear attitude that shows he's enjoying the music;  Gilbert is rather more serious looking.  Maybe he really enjoys it, but he doesn't show it much.  Second,  the New York DVD has a false sense of occasion--it was the NYPhil's observance of the 10th anniversary of 9/11. So we get shots of New York skyline and the crowd outside watching the concert on big screens, and some stray shots of New York traffic (not very relevant in the Andante, but very witty--a speeded up clip of Times Square at night--in the Scherzo), plus the National Anthem and a little speech by Gilbert.  The Leipzig DVD focuses entirely on the music.

BTW, Chailly  actually observes a slight break after the first movement--not as long as Mahler's instructions, but still long enough,  stepping off the podium and standing for a minute or so in a prayerful attitude before looking up with an eager smile and stepping back onto the podium (where he then waits for the soloists to make their entrance on to the stage and take their seats).

The Chailly/Gewandhaus DVD of M8 is on back order; I'll report on that when I get it.

Currently my favorite M8s (all on CD) are MTT (except for a chewy James Morris), Inbal (the most overall coherence) and Bernstein/Sony.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

A fascinating snippet of Deryck Cooke interviewing composer Egon Wellesz about Mahler the conductor:


http://www.viddler.com/explore/DeryckCookeWeb/videos/7/

[Sergeant Rock]

A fascinating snippet of Deryck Cooke interviewing composer Egon Wellesz about Mahler the conductor:


http://www.viddler.com/explore/DeryckCookeWeb/videos/7/

Very interesting. Thanks for that, Johan. I'm a bit skeptical though. How accurate is memory 50+ years after the fact? Wellesz would have been between 12 and 22 when he heard Mahler conduct. Considering my own experience: if I didn't have recordings to reinforce memory, I wonder what I would recall, and say about, for example, George Szell's conducting?

It's a tragedy (for Mahlerites, anyway) that he didn't live another ten to fifteen years. If he had, we'd have recordings.

Sarge

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I'm a bit skeptical though. How accurate is memory 50+ years after the fact? Wellesz would have been between 12 and 22 when he heard Mahler conduct. Considering my own experience: if I didn't have recordings to reinforce memory, I wonder what I would recall, and say about, for example, George Szell's conducting?

It's a tragedy (for Mahlerites, anyway) that he didn't live another ten to fifteen years. If he had, we'd have recordings.

Well, he could have kept a diary. Or he could simply have been very alert and alive. I know I was, even as young as 12. At that age things can strike you and imprint themselves on the brain like in no other period of your life.


And yes - why did Mahler have to die so young? And I'm 50 myself now...

[Sergeant Rock]

At that age things can strike you and imprint themselves on the brain like in no other period of your life.

That's what our brains tell us...but I wonder if that's really true. I have frequent debates with old friends about what really happened when we were 16, 17. We seldom agree 

Anyway, the contradictions, between his memory and the memory of others, bother me. I don't know who to believe.

Edit: And the recordings by his disciples don't help: can there be three more diverse conductors of Mahler than Mengelberg, Walter and Klemperer?

Sarge

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

That's what our brains tell us...but I wonder if that's really true. I have frequent debates with old friends about what really happened when we were 16, 17. We seldom agree 

  Well, I still have hundreds of pages of notes which chart my intellectual journey. But that's the writer for you...

Anyway, the contradictions, between his memory and the memory of others, bother me. I don't know who to believe.

I see your point. Have you read the whole of De la Grange? I haven't. But does Wellesz' description differ much from what you can learn there?

[Sergeant Rock]

  Well, I still have hundreds of pages of notes which chart my intellectual journey. But that's the writer for you...

Yes, I often win debates simply because I've kept every letter I've ever received (and reposessed many I sent). And because I wrote poetry about my experiences. It's fun to produce evidence. That gotcha moment is priceless 

I see your point. Have you read the whole of De la Grange? I haven't. But does Wellesz' description differ much from what you can learn there?

The impression I've always had is the same as Cooke's: that Mahler was far more flexible than Wellesz maintains. But maybe my memory is faulty here 


Sarge

[eyeresist]

Thanks to those who responded regarding the 8th. BTW, after blowing out on this work over the weekend, I am now absolutely sick of it and do not want to hear it again for at least a year!

Is it true that Mahler wrote it in 10 weeks?

[Brian]

That's what our brains tell us...but I wonder if that's really true. I have frequent debates with old friends about what really happened when we were 16, 17. We seldom agree 

Just this weekend I got together with one of my two best friends and tried to piece together the story of how we met - which happened just three and a half years ago. It took us an hour and several glasses of stout to figure out how we met, but then we turned to how we met the other two members of our nuclear friend-circle and were, and remain, completely stumped. I only have solid, firm memories of meeting one of these three people, but her memory directly contradicts mine. So I can honestly say I don't remember how I met any of my best friends, only a few years after making them.

On the other hand, I can remember Neeme Jarvi conducting Tubin in Detroit when I was 13, and his podium style at the time. We classical music fans - the musical parts of our memories are much, much sharper than everything else, I think! 

[knight66]

I have written elsewhere about performances I have been involved in. It is not merely memory that is unreliable. I lambasted Boulez for his inflexible Mahler 8. There were so many vivid memories around that specific performance and the opinion of the performance itself was formed at once and agreed with by those around me in the choir.

Over 20 years later an off-air BBC recording of the performance surfaced and I had to eat my words most thoroughly. I contrasted this with a fascinating Mahler 2 I had been in, which had been recorded for TV and which, when broadcast, came over as plain old boring. When I explained this Karl commented that sometimes the soldiers in the trenches are not best placed to grasp how the battle went.

I know that is from a specific point of view from within performances; but I have lots of other memories of simply attending: I wonder how accurate they are? Some folk do have excellent memories; but that needs to be allied to good critical judgement to have any real use to it.

Memory is a mysterious creature.

BTW, although no more Mahler 8s are being asked for, I suggest two live ones: Wyn Morris and the newly released live Tennstedt.

Mike