Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[TheGSMoeller]

I haven't been tempted to load my bazooka in many a moon, but I just may now! 

Sarge

I knew you'd feel betrayed, Sarge. I deserve the bazooka.   

[Cato]

The form of the Eighth has eluded me for the 40 years I've been acquainted with the work 

Have you followed it with a score?  Perhaps that would help?  The only thing I can say is that the musical structure is cohesive: through the miracle of Google Books, musicologist Richard Specht's famous analysis demonstrates this quite clearly, and he addresses right at the beginning the objections to the  work as a "symphony."

https://books.google.com/books?id=DUdGAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA4&lpg=PA4&dq=thematic+analysis+mahler%27s+Eighth+Symphony&source=bl&ots=E_QndDq3sg&sig=TrB2W8UVEd5b98thFQPb2AujaGs&hl=en&sa=X&ei=zVyQVfjhLMSyggTIj7PABg&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=thematic%20analysis%20mahler's%20Eighth%20Symphony&f=false

[Sergeant Rock]

I knew you'd feel betrayed, Sarge. I deserve the bazooka.   

Well, I can't shoot a man showing genuine contriteness 

Actually, I should rejoice. You like the 8th...that's unusual, and admirable!

Sarge

[ritter]

Have you followed it with a score?  Perhaps that would help?  The only thing I can say is that the musical structure is cohesive: through the miracle of Google Books, musicologist Richard Specht's famous analysis demonstrates this quite clearly, and he addresses right at the beginning the objections to the  work as a "symphony."

Thanks for the link, Cato! No, I haven't followed the Eighth with a score, only on record and in live performance (where, as I've said before, it makes a great impression--an impression, I add now, that to a certain extent masks what I perceive as the weaknesses of the work). But just for the record: I have no objections with the work as a "symphony". I simply don't appreciate it as a whole per se.

[Cato]

Have you followed it with a score?  Perhaps that would help?  The only thing I can say is that the musical structure is cohesive: through the miracle of Google Books, musicologist Richard Specht's famous analysis demonstrates this quite clearly, and he addresses right at the beginning the objections to the  work as a "symphony."

https://books.google.com/books?id=DUdGAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA4&lpg=PA4&dq=thematic+analysis+mahler%27s+Eighth+Symphony&source=bl&ots=E_QndDq3sg&sig=TrB2W8UVEd5b98thFQPb2AujaGs&hl=en&sa=X&ei=zVyQVfjhLMSyggTIj7PABg&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=thematic%20analysis%20mahler's%20Eighth%20Symphony&f=false

A salient excerpt:

But there is no musician today who would cavil on formal grounds at the symphonic structur of the gigantic first movement, which is divided in clearest design; of First Part, development - with the famous great double fugue that takes up the main theme and the interweaving voices - the reprise and coda ("Gloria" of the choir of boys).  And  nothing could be easier than to distinguish in the Second Part the three sub-sections of an Andante ("Waldung sie schwankt heran"), of a Scherzo ("Jene Rosen aus der Haenden") and a Finale ("Alles Vergaengliche ist nur ein Gleichnis")...For, all of the Second Part is determined in its themes by the First Part; its motives have grown out of those in the beginning, and now attain their real significance, both in the musical view and in the cosmic vision that the whole work reveals..

(My emphasis above.)

Thanks for the link, Cato! No, I haven't followed the Eighth with a score, only on record and in live performance (where, as I've said before, it makes a great impression--an impression, I add now, that to a certain extent masks what I perceive as the weaknesses of the work). But just for the record: I have no objections with the work as a "symphony". I simply don't appreciate it as a whole per se.

You are quite welcome: maybe the analysis will lead to an "Aha" moment when you listen again!  0:)

[Ken B]

I haven't been tempted to load my bazooka in many a moon, but I just may now! 

Sarge

Here, let me pass you the ammo!

[Marc]

I shouldn't call it bad composition.  Part II is marvelous, IMO.  My own quarrel with Part I is not compositional, but more a quarrel with taking that musical tone to set the hymn Veni Creator Spiritus;  really just a difference in musical opinion.

I've always preferred the first movement, because of its density.

[Ken B]

Well, I can't shoot a man showing genuine contriteness 

Actually, I should rejoice. You like the 8th...that's unusual, and admirable!

Sarge

That's right, Sarge. You keep him distracted while I sneak around behind him ...

[TheGSMoeller]

That's right, Sarge. You keep him distracted while I sneak around behind him ...

 

[Madiel]

I don't think there's anything wrong with the Eighth on a basic compositional level. It's just that, as I've said before in relation to the only recording that I'm familiar with, I don't enjoy listening to that length of over-the-top joyousness. It becomes tiresome. Happy shouting is fun for a while, but then you're over it.

Someone mentioned Beethoven's 9th. Sure, the finale of Beethoven's 9th is a big ode to joy, but it's just one movement out of four, and it's about 20 minutes of joyousness, not about 75 minutes.

I might say I've had much the same reaction to some experiences of opera, such as certain parts of Wagner's Ring. Siegfried and Brunnhilde singing ecstatically of their love for each other is good for a while, but there comes a point where I desperately want them to move on.

[Jay F]

The best fatboy CD set ever (from $1.99+):

[asin]B00000DS76[/asin]

[kishnevi]

Someone mentioned Beethoven's 9th.

That was me.  I was comparing it not on the basis of how the listener might react, but on the basis of what the chorus is expected to sing.  If uttering the top note of your vocal range for several bars at top volume can properly be called singing.

[Papy Oli]

I have the first volume (1, 2, 3...the Resurrection is spectacular).
Sarge

oh, you had to say that, didn't you... 

damn it.... 

[TheGSMoeller]

Yea, or Nay?

[jlaurson]

Yea, or Nay?

Of course there's lots of Yay in this... but by a rigid standard: Nay

[Ken B]

Yea, or Nay?

HUGE YEA

HUGE
HUGE
HUGE YES BUY THIS

Superlative 5, maybe the best I have heard. Nothing less than good, some incredibly great, and no #8!

[jlaurson]

HUGE YEA

HUGE
HUGE
HUGE YES BUY THIS

Superlative 5, maybe the best I have heard. Nothing less than good, some incredibly great, and no #8!

No. 5 *is* pretty darn good. But  easily available as a stand-alone. And for his 9th, the Oehms is crazier, still. http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/05/mtt-in-mahlers-9th.html

[TheGSMoeller]

No. 5 *is* pretty darn good. But  easily available as a stand-alone. And for his 9th, the Oehms is crazier, still. http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/05/mtt-in-mahlers-9th.html

A 32 min finale? Wowzer. Thanks for the link, Jens.

Superlative 5, maybe the best I have heard. Nothing less than good, some incredibly great, and no #8!

You're such a 8ter.    
Thanks for the reply, Ken.

[Ken B]

A 32 min finale? Wowzer. Thanks for the link, Jens.


You're such a 8ter.    
Thanks for the reply, Ken.

It's the best cycle, as far as 8 goes!

[kishnevi]

No. 5 *is* pretty darn good. But  easily available as a stand-alone. And for his 9th, the Oehms is crazier, still. http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/05/mtt-in-mahlers-9th.html

I like the set.  But Jens is very right about that Munich 9th.  It is one of four in my top echelon for M9.  The other three being Zinman, Maderna, and (dark horse time!) Dudamel.

ETA. His Salzburg 2nd can skipped with no regret.