Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

I LOVE Mahler, what is the best box? So that I don't have to youtube him anymore

Ps. I already own a few of his Symphonies

BOULEZ IS THE GREATEST MAHLER INTERPRETER OF ALL TIME and Gielen coming in second place. I don't know if Gielen's recordings come in a box but Boulez's certainly do!

[ritter]

I don't know if Gielen's recordings come in a box ...

Et voilà:

[asin]B000269QUM[/asin]
It includes the adagio only from the 10th, not the whole Deryck Cooke completion (which Gielen did record and is available on a separate disc). Also, no Das Lied von der Erde (again, available under Gielen on a single disc).

Cheers,

[knight66]

I don't think I would be going for Boulez as my main choice for Mahler's works. It depends whether you want a single view of his soundworld or do you just want good recordings of as much as possible as reasonably as possible. I find Boulez too cool and sane and Bernstein too hyper-emotional. I also dislike Haitink's non-interventionalist approach.

I have very much enjoyed Bertini's set and it has gathered a lot of praise over the years.

I sugget the following EMI compolation of the complete works, available very inexpensively.

_{https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gustav-Mahler-Complete-Works-Anniversary/dp/B003D0ZNWY/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1473405800&sr=1-1&keywords=Mahler+complete}


This has a number of classic performances, some go back to Furtwangler, Barbirolli, others take in Rattle and other living musicians. I have a number of these recordings, so don't have the box itself, but I suggest it if you want a full set of the works, not just the symphonies. As to sets by one conductor, for me I prefer Chailly or Abbado or Sinopoli.

Mike

[jlaurson]

I LOVE Mahler, what is the best box? So that I don't have to youtube him anymore

Ps. I already own a few of his Symphonies

Gustav Mahler – A Brief Introduction
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2016/04/gustav-mahler-brief-introduction.html

Contrary to the opinion below, I find Boulez absolutely not cold or analytical, except for the 3rd... in which I actually very much appreciate him. His First and especially Fifth are warm and emotional; the Sixth is brutal and gloves-off... all in all, and given the price, I actually would join the recommendation for Boulez's set.

Complete Mahler, Pierre Boulez DG

Complete Mahler, Michael Gielen Haenssler

I think his First, Second, Fifth Sixth, Seventh are top drawer; among my favorites in each of those symphonies... and the Third [in Boulez-stereotypical way], too.

There is one total dud, the Eight. Just. not. good. at. all. But every set has at least one dud and usually more... or simply a lower average across the board. So that's not a concern. Replace it with Ozawa.

Gielen, the recommendation of whose set I would also second, has his dud in the 4th, where the singer sounds like she has designs on cannibalizing Haensel... i.e. more witch than angel. Replace it with Haitink/Chicago. I love Gielen's additional pieces on the individual discs which are, alas, not included in the box. Note that the Classics Today ratings are to be taken with a grain of salt; Hurwitz wrote the liner notes for the whole series... then gave them 10/10 ratings more or less throughout. Sketchy. Still, it's a great over all set.

There's something to be said about Bertini (EMI) and Tennstedt (EMI), but I find them too milquetoast. If you are interested in way too much about Mahler and recordings, the Mahler Survey here (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2009/12/mahler-survey.html) might be of interest. The first ever set is terrific, still: Kubelik... a good standard from which to explore Mahler into different directions.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

jlaurson i agree with your thoughts on Boulez Mahler 3 and imo it is the least good. Gielen's Mahler 3 is imo one of the strongest of his Mahler recordings though! It really sounds like it encompasses the whole world more than any other Mahler 3!

[ritter]

jlaurson i agree with your thoughts on Boulez Mahler 3 and imo it is the least good. Gielen's Mahler 3 is imo one of the strongest of his Mahler recordings though! It really sounds like it encompasses the whole world more than any other Mahler 3!

One thing that Boulez does get very right (IMO, at least) in his Third is how the oboe plays the passages marked "hinaufziehen (wie ein Naturlaut" in the fourth movement. Quite stiunning indeed. In more general terms, the "Boulez-stereotypical way" that Jens points out suits this "excessive" symphony particularly well, and the Frenchman's grasp of the "long form" manages to keep the whole piece (which sometimes can sound "episodic") remarkably coherent. Still my go to Third is Abbado's first with Vienna on DG (not least for Jessye Norman's sublime rendition of O Mensch).

I too was disappointed by Boulez's Eighth, and some of the vocal soloists were not up to the task, IMO. I read somewhere that Boulez recorded the piece just to complete his cycle, as he had previously had doubts about the need of committing it to disk.  I myself am not much of an admirer of the work, but do enjoy Ozawa's and Sinopoli's recordings of it.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

My relative unfamiliarity with no. 8 does indeed make my judgement rather flawed when considering which Boulez Mahler is the least good. Perhaps it is no. 8, but I have heard some Mahler 3s I like a little more than Boulez's. Not to say I don't like it at all! Boulez is still my go to conductor for anything Mahler.

[Heck148]

Boulez does very well with Mahler, from what I've heard.
His 9th with Chicago is really excellent, one of the very best, esp the inner movements.

Overall, my favorite Mahler conductors are Solti, Walter, Abbado, who all made consistently fine recordings of Mahler symphonies and song cycles.
Reiner and Giulini did not leave big Mahler discographies - but what they did record is truly superb - Reiner - #4, and DLvDE [Lewis,Forrester]
Giulini's #9 is my overall favorite, a great performance, stunning playing by the CSO. His CSO Mahler #1 is also top-notch, my favorite overall, brilliantly played and recorded [EMI]

[André]

The purpose of a boxed set is not to get the best performances around. There is no such thing. I see it more as a way to get a specific viewing angle on the corpus, one that is both interesting and rewarding. I don't think Boulez fits the bill in that regard. Some Amazon reviewers point to the variability of the results. I have not heard all of them, but I have not been tempted to pursue after hearing 1, 3, 5, 8 and 9.

With that "specific" sound/conception in mind, I like the sets by Bernstein in NY and that of Inbal in Frankfurt. Haitink's COA set is also a favourite, although I may be one of the very few to hold that position  . I actually prefer his latest views on the 2nd and 3rd (Chicago) and 9th (BRSO). Gielen's is an excellent set, with great production values but I find it emotionally constipated. Bernstein and Gielen complement one another in many ways. Get both for best results.

[PerfectWagnerite]

Reiner and Giulini did not leave big Mahler discographies - but what they did record is truly superb - Reiner - #4, and DLvDE [Lewis,Forrester]

Another for for the Reiner Das Lied and Sym #4, both essential listening. I particularly like Das Lied as it featured one of the very greatest Mahlerian singers in M. Forrester.

[jlaurson]

Thanks for that! Is that your blog too?
Really well written.

Though I'm not a newbie to Mahler (the only symphonies I haven't heard is the 3rd and 4th.
I own the 1st, 7th and 9th. They're brilliant, though getting it over with and obtaining the entire cycle would be great! 

Indeed, more or less my blog, and the place where I learned to write. If that piece is well written, though, it's because it's been re-re-re-re-re-written so many times now... It was one of the first long pieces I wrote and was years in the making before it ever was published by WETA. And now I might take it apart and update it and put it together again, I feel... I've had a few years of low-level Mahler intensity and I feel like I might be ready again.

In fact, I willingly popped in a Mahler CD just now, that was still on the To-Listen-Mahler-Pile.

I know I didn't expect much of this, because I want my Sixth knock-out hard and biting and gritty and suspected that Zinman might go all soft and flabby on it. But when I heard that combo live at the Leipzig Mahler Fest (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2011/05/mahler-festival-leipzig-zinman-tonhalle.html) I was very, very pleasantly surprised how good it sounded and how rough. Some of that seems to translate in the recording, one movement in. But he does of course take the movements in the correct, which is to say: wrong order.


#morninglistening to #Mahler w/@DavidZinman & #Tonhalle on RCA/@sonly_classical: Symphony ... http://ift.tt/2cj9DYk

The longer and more I listen to Mahler, the further I move away from Bernstein, it feels. I suppose I really only still absolutely love his Lied (DFD, King, Decca) Only Sarge was able to make me check out and subsequently really appreciate Solti in Mahler's Sixth... otherwise I think Solti and Mahler are not a good mix and that famous Eighth makes me furious, because I think it's so wrong and stupid. Haitink I found too polite, but his last recordings, much like his late Bruckner, with different orchestras for different labels tended to be really terrific.

[Cato]

. The first ever set is terrific, still: Kubelik... a good standard from which to explore Mahler into different directions.

KUBELIK !!!  I wore out my vinyl records of his performances, especially the Sixth!

[asin]B00004SA86[/asin]

[Heck148]

I know I didn't expect much of this, because I want my Sixth knock-out hard and biting and gritty

Then Solti/CSO would be the runaway winner...really hard-edged and brutal - spectacular playing, and great recording...Solti does relent in the slow mvt however, which is lyrical and poignant...for me, the best Mahler 6 I've ever heard....recently heard Nelsons/BSO play it live - very fine, wonderful concert.

The longer and more I listen to Mahler, the further I move away from Bernstein, it feels.

I tend to agree - I think Bernstein often tries too hard - he's trying to hit us over the head with how great this music is, instead of letting the music speak for itself...I love Lenny as a conductor, overall - he did so many things well, but I don't worship him as a Mahler conductor - tho his NYPO/CBS #7 was excellent, and so is his NYPO/DGG #3 remake is terrific also.

[Heck148]

Another for for the Reiner Das Lied and Sym #4, both essential listening. I particularly like Das Lied as it featured one of the very greatest Mahlerian singers in M. Forrester.

Yes, Forrester is absolutely first-rate...The final song "Abscheid" is quite magical. Forrester sounds almost otherwordly - the ensemble between singer and orchestra is amazing.

[Marc]

Good stuff. There were really two Mahler DVDs in that series, if I remember correctly. Still remember some of the quotes from watching that, which must be 12, 13 years back, now.

I think you are referring to a 2nd DVD from 2004 with the documentary I Have Lost Touch With The World, which was made by the same director, Frank Scheffer. This documentary was filmed during Chailly's last season in Amsterdam and was, IIRC, entirely dedicated to Das Lied and Mahler 9. Mahler-connaisseur Henry-Louis de la Grange was interviewed for that one, too.

Some ten years ago, both DVD's were released for the international market in a 2-DVD boxset.

[Sergeant Rock]

Then Solti/CSO would be the runaway winner...really hard-edged and brutal - spectacular playing, and great recording...Solti does relent in the slow mvt however, which is lyrical and poignant...for me, the best Mahler 6 I've ever heardso.

Solti's was my first M6 recording (have acquired 28 more since that purchase in the early 70s) and still my desert island pick.

Sarge

[kishnevi]

Et voilà:

[asin]B000269QUM[/asin]
It includes the adagio only from the 10th, not the whole Deryck Cooke completion (which Gielen did record and is available on a separate disc). Also, no Das Lied von der Erde (again, available under Gielen on a single disc).

Cheers,

Gielen's Lied is wierd: the tenor movements were recorded ten years before the mezzo movements.  And the seams show.

My recommendation for a complete set for someone not like me (ie, not someone with 18 cycles) is Inbal,  good quality all the way through even if no one recording is the best.  Or Tilson Thomas, if your budget will stand the strain.

[jlaurson]

Gielen's Lied is wierd: the tenor movements were recorded ten years before the mezzo movements.  And the seams show.

My recommendation for a complete set for someone not like me (ie, not someone with 18 cycles) is Inbal,  good quality all the way through even if no one recording is the best.  Or Tilson Thomas, if your budget will stand the strain.

True: Inbal is a good set, too. His Fourth is among the best, and his Seventh and Eighth are excellent... and there is, so far as I can remember and/or have heard them, no outright dud in the lot. The set is not in any interpretative way outrageous and wouldn't, I should think, pre-dispose you to any particular style of Mahler interpretation.

[Marc]

True: Inbal is a good set, too. His Fourth is among the best, and his Seventh and Eighth are excellent... and there is, so far as I can remember and/or have heard them, no outright dud in the lot. The set is not in any interpretative way outrageous and wouldn't, I should think, pre-dispose you to any particular style of Mahler interpretation.

Nice to see the support for Inbal, and especially the Fourth. One of my faves for sure.
Inbal's set (collected by Brilliant Classics) also offers Das Lied, but maybe not everyone will like the voice of Jard van Nes.

For a complete set, I would probably recommend, as other GMG members already did, Gary Bertini.

But I haven't made much new Mahler purchases in the last 10 to 15 years or so.
My Mahler collection is mainly a gathering of old (or dead) men.

[Marc]

KUBELIK !!!  I wore out my vinyl records of his performances, especially the Sixth!

[asin]B00004SA86[/asin]

Yeah, that's a great one, too.
Bertini, Kubelik, Haitink and Inbal are good examples for a solid 'starter's set'.
And IMO each of them is solid enough to remain the 'only' set, if one's love for Mahler is limited... or the contents of one's wallet.