Atonal composers arrange tonal works

[Chaszz]

Can anyone answer this: Re the Brahms and Johann Strauss Jr. works arranged (for different size orchestras than the originals, but in their full original tonality) by Schoenberg and Webern, did the later composers arrange these works as students or after they had adapted their mature conceptions? In other words, were these early learning exercises or later vacation-like revisits by the serialists to the earlier world of traditional tonality? Thanks much for your help.

[not edward]

These were mostly mature works. Schoenberg's Strauss (and Bach) arrangements are from the 1920s, his Brahms piano quartet transcription from the mid-30s; Webern's arrangements of the Schubert dances are from the 1920s while his Bach Ricercare a 6 arrangement is a perfect example of his mature instrumental style, written in the mid-30s.

(Incidentally, atonal composers are still at this: Georg Friedrich Haas has recently done orchestrations of piano sonatas by Schubert and Scriabin.)

[Ephemerid]

Webern's ... Bach Ricercare a 6 arrangement is a perfect example of his mature instrumental style, written in the mid-30s.

That's an awesome arrangement BTW.

[Mark G. Simon]

Also remember that these composers did not come to music with the dogmatic "either/or" mentality you seem to ascribe to them. They continued to enjoy and find inspiration in tonal music. Schoenberg even continued to compose original tonal music into the 1930s and 40s (Chamber Symphony no. 2, Kol Nidre, Theme and Variations for band, Suite in G for strings).

[(poco) Sforzando]

That's an awesome arrangement BTW.

Yes, and in its use of Klangfarben (pointillist orchestration) it sounds in some ways almost more like Webern than like Bach. So to the question: "In other words, were these early learning exercises or later vacation-like revisits by the serialists to the earlier world of traditional tonality?" the answer here would be: "It's a mature piece of Webern-Bach."

[Chaszz]

Also remember that these composers did not come to music with the dogmatic "either/or" mentality you seem to ascribe to them. They continued to enjoy and find inspiration in tonal music. Schoenberg even continued to compose original tonal music into the 1930s and 40s (Chamber Symphony no. 2, Kol Nidre, Theme and Variations for band, Suite in G for strings).

I don't ascribe an either/or mentality to them. I simply didn't know, that's why I asked the question.

The reason I asked it was that in my own art, I purposely reject the rectangular picture plane of painting for the irregular shape of a sculpture, although my works are paintings in conception. But when doing watercolors and drawings, I still enjoy the traditional rectangular shape. I wondered whether a similar situation existed with these composers, could they still have one foot in the older world at times?