Diabelli Variations

[Que]

I enjoyed it - very upbeat as should be.

Thanks for your comment, Don.

I'm "plugging" the sample once more for those who missed it: 


[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/11/4/1562799/01%2033%20Veranderungen%20uber%20einen%20Walzer%20von%20Anton%20Diabelli%20op.120.mp3[/mp3]
Theme and the first seven variations, about 9 minutes.

Dutch pianist Paul Komen on a Conrad Graf fortepiano.

Q

[FideLeo]

[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/11/4/1562799/01%2033%20Veranderungen%20uber%20einen%20Walzer%20von%20Anton%20Diabelli%20op.120.mp3[/mp3]

Dutch pianist Paul Komen on a Conrad Graf fortepiano.

Q

Currently the recording is a bit hard to get - except from French online vendors or from Beethoven-Haus itself.  There was once talk of Komen completing his Beethoven cycle.  Well it has been just talk so far. 

[Mandryka]

It is tempting to say, that the music in question actually bores you, even if you certainly wouldn´t admit this. Why else should you need variety of the kind you suggest?

LOL. You're deep.

[ccar]

For years I listened to many interpretations of the Diabelli variations with unease.  Apart from Schnabel, Serkin and some Richter, I really couldn't feel touched by most of the readings I knew.


                                           


But I still remember my awe at my first listening of the Diabelli played by Yudina. With her interpretative genius she led me through each of these variations with a renewed sense of discovery - by the freshness of the phrasing, her creative choice of tempi and the almost improvisational but amazing rhythmic drive.

Nowadays there are a number of transfers of the Yudina/Diabelli to choose – from the ones I know I may prefer the Philips -GPOC edition.         


                                             http://www.youtube.com/v/mJ0ofaeREuo

[PaulSC]

Exciting times for lovers of Beethoven's piano music! Jean-Efflam Bavouzet and Stewart Goodyear have Sonata cycles underway, and now Harmonia Mundi have announced a new recording of the Diabelli Variations by Andreas Staier (due in early May, performed on a fortepiano after Conrad Graf and filled out with some of the individual variations on the same theme by other composers of the time).



Meanwhile, Brautigam's Beethoven cycle continues to advance, but no sign of the Diabelli Variations as of yet...

[North Star]

and now Harmonia Mundi have announced a new recording of the Diabelli Variations by Andreas Staier (due in early May, performed on a fortepiano after Conrad Graf and filled out with some of the individual variations on the same theme by other composers of the time).



Meanwhile, Brautigam's Beethoven cycle continues to advance, but no sign of the Diabelli Variations as of yet...

That is interesting, thanks, Paul.

[Leon]

I'm bumping this thread because I am presently at the outset of a concerted effort at listening to as many recordings of this work as I can get my hands on.  Spotify has a dozen or more so that should keep me busy initially, but I am really interested in the PI recordings, Staier and Komen but also there are many older recordings I would like to hear.

I've not purposely avoided this work, but by the same token, somehow I have never focused on it either.

I plan to rectify that in the coming days ... or weeks.

[mjwal]

I don't know why I have hitherto missed this discussion. Anyway - I tend to agree with ccar and Mandryka on interpretations here - Schnabel, Serkin, Richter, Yudina, live Brendel - but would add (from memory, since it is somewhere else and I haven't listened to it for a long time) Gulda, which seems to have passed beneath everybody's radar on this thread. Very fast, drastic, one might say, more so even than the Amadeo/Brilliant sonatas. In August I intend to listen to this again. - I am most intrigued by your description of Pludermacher's performance, Mandryka - he is a pianist I have never (knowingly) listened to; I shall investigate.
PS. If you speak French there's an interesting comparison of various recordings of the Diabellis by a circle of critics here, including a consideration of the Pludermacher and the new Staier:
http://sites.radiofrance.fr/francemusique/em/jardin-critiques/emission.php?e_id=100000065&d_id=440000370&arch=1

[Mandryka]

Sometimes in life you come across a performance that's so wonderful that it makes you remember why you invest so much time listening to music.

Well I think Charles Rosen's op 120 is an example of such a performance.

This is close to being exactly what I want from The Diabelli Variations, a sense of being on a long difficult journey, a journey which proceeds by fits and starts, from the mundane to the sublime and ineffable and, in the final variation, to something humane.

Available here either to just listen to or to download, this has never been released on a CD

http://archive.org/details/Beethoven-DiabelliVariationsrosen

[Mandryka]

Having read this statement a bit closer I am surprised, that a well-educated Dutch organist can say this nonsense. The so called Dutch practice is not to play all notes unbound, but to group the notes in small unities or "cell´s", which can be played non-legato or strictly legato as well.  F.i. : in a group of three short notes played legato the first will seem to receive a small accent, even if this actually is impossible to do on an organ. But it feels so, it happens in our mind.  The "trick" is to be able to indicate the rhythm and distinguish between good and less good notes in this way. The first note under the bow also often receives a small agogoc accent (it is held a nanosec. too long) in order to support the impression of good note when wanted. The playing of Gustav Leonhardt among several others offers examples in abundance of this practice. Can Zwoferink be unaware of this? No, she can´t, and this is the reason why one has got to read her words with some reservation.

You're probably not interested in this, or don't have the time. But I think that Rosen articulated the Diabelli variations just like Leonhardt articulates Bach. Not necessarily the agogics, but he breaks up the music into small cells, and this gives the performance a unique spikey feel.

[Geo Dude]

I can't speak to the quality of the piano side of this recording (not interested), but the fortepiano disc is quite nice, and the price is hard to beat.

[Mandryka]

Well if you're not going to listen to piano recordings then I think you're choice is pretty limited, and you're cutting off your nose to spite your face. The fortepiano doesn't contribute much important in this piece, does it?

Anyway, I've not heard Staier's. What's it like?

[Geo Dude]

If it's a work I listen to on a regular basis and there are not many PI recordings available (or the PI recordings consist of unsatisfactory interpretations) then yes I'll listen to an MI recording here and there for variety.  I prefer the sound of a fortepiano, can't speak to what it adds other than that; we're not talking about harpsichord vs piano type differences, obviously.  f it's something that I pull out for the occasional listen like the Diabelli Variations then no, I don't feel like I'm doing myself any harm.

I too am curious about Staier's reading.

[Mandryka]

Anyone got any opinions about Sokolov's?


I know it's beautifully played and recorded. But somehow I can't get my head round why he's playing the music like that. Maybe I'm too tied to the idea of these variations as a quest, an arduous journey, something I picked up from Maynard Solomon's  book on late Beethoven. Maybe they mean something else to Sokolov. But without a clearer grasp of what he's seeing in the music I find the performance completely elusive.

[Holden]

Anyone got any opinions about Sokolov's?


I know it's beautifully played and recorded. But somehow I can't get my head round why he's playing the music like that. Maybe I'm too tied to the idea of these variations as a quest, an arduous journey, something I picked up from Maynard Solomon's  book on late Beethoven. Maybe they mean something else to Sokolov. But without a clearer grasp of what he's seeing in the music I find the performance completely elusive.

I usually like what Sokolov does with Beethoven but his Diabelliis are ho hum as far as I'm concerned. I can't put my finger on it but they just sound very middle of the road.

[Mandryka]

I usually like what Sokolov does with Beethoven but his Diabelliis are ho hum as far as I'm concerned. I can't put my finger on it but they just sound very middle of the road.

And yet each individual variation is played extremely well and often with brave orginality. The problem is in the vision of the thing as a whole, I'm convinced of it. The whole seems much much less than the sum of the parts. i think I'm just missing his point.

[Sammy]

I can't speak to the quality of the piano side of this recording (not interested), but the fortepiano disc is quite nice, and the price is hard to beat.

As far as I'm concerned, neither the modern piano version nor the fortepiano version is interesting.  He plays both in a similar fashion - boring.

[kishnevi]

Well if you're not going to listen to piano recordings then I think you're choice is pretty limited, and you're cutting off your nose to spite your face. The fortepiano doesn't contribute much important in this piece, does it?

Anyway, I've not heard Staier's. What's it like?

In Staier's hands, the fortepiano contributes a whole bunch to the Diabellis.  Some of his playing is so individualistic that it might be called eccentric and/or idiosyncratic, but it's all well worth listening to.  (So is Cooper's, although the latter can't be called eccentric/idiosyncratic.)

Not that I adhere to the "arduous journey" view: to me the DVs are more a grand exercise of musical analysis and dissection, a master taking what might seem to be a humdrum line of music, putting it through its paces and showing the potentials for greatness.  The arduous journey fits well for the piano sonatas, the late quartets, etc.--but not everything Beethoven wrote fits under that category.

[Brian]

"András Schiff has now recorded - on two period instruments – remarkable, contrasting versions of the Diabelli Variations alongside major late works with intrinsic ties to them. The Sonata Op. 111 and the Diabelli Variations (CD 1) are played on an original Bechstein grand from 1921, and the second reading of the Diabelli Variations, (paired with the op. 126 Bagatelles on CD 2) on a Hammerflugel fortepiano from Beethoven's own day.

"In his liner note András Schiff acknowledges the value of having been able to consult the previously unknown original manuscript of the Variations which provided invaluable insight into Beethoven's compositional process and intentions."

Huh. I've never heard of the Hammerflugel workshop before.

[Wakefield]

Huh. I've never heard of the Hammerflugel workshop before.

It's almost so famous like the harpsichord workshop Cembalo.