The Only Wagneresque Opera

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Which is Wagnerian but, if it had been written with a French libretto, would have been Wagneresque!

Beautiful nitpick!

P.S. I have just discovered I have become the only Doppel-Silversubscriber of the board... 

[Brian]

So, definitely, Puccini had a few good ideas of his own...

  That's quite an understatement!

[Brian]

P.S. I have just discovered I have become the only Doppel-Silversubscriber of the board... 

That is odd ... are you sure there aren't two of you? 

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

That is odd ... are you sure there aren't two of you? 

Well, I am Twins (both astrological sign AND in reality (twin sister))...

[Hector]

Beautiful nitpick!

P.S. I have just discovered I have become the only Doppel-Silversubscriber of the board... 

Whadya want a prize...or two?

[Anne]

Well, I am Twins (both astrological sign AND in reality (twin sister))...

I am gemini by birth and had twins - boy and a girl.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I am gemini by birth and had twins - boy and a girl.

Holy two! as Robin would have said (you know, Batman's little friend).

Jezethanne is stalking the board...

[Haffner]

Being a shameless Wagnerite, this thread had made me determined now to check out this piece by DeBussy.

I always figured "Elektra" was about the most successful, Wagner-ian opera since the man himself.

[Operahaven]

Being a shameless Wagnerite, this thread had made me determined now to check out this piece by DeBussy.

Andy,

Will you report back to us with your impressions ?

[Haffner]

Andy,

Will you report back to us with your impressions ?

Definite. Just need to buy the darn thing!

[Operahaven]

Definite. Just need to buy the darn thing!

Andy,

There is no need to.

I will gladly give you one of mine since there are at least 30 recordings on my shelf... Shoot me a PM.

[marvinbrown]

Being a shameless Wagnerite, this thread had made me determined now to check out this piece by DeBussy.

 A word of caution AndyD, while parallels can be drawn between Debussy's P+M and Wagner's Parsifal, I find P+M softer, quieter and far more mellow than Parsifal.  P+M does not have an ounce of that wonderfull Wagnerian power you would find in the Ring, nor the ultra-intense passion of Wagner's Tristan, nor the lyrical lightheartedness of Die Meistersinger.  This is why I voted that I do not understand what is meant by the Only Wagneresque Opera   ??

 marvin

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

This is why I voted that I do not understand what is meant by the Only Wagneresque Opera   ??

Though I haven't voted, I do understand it. If you see Wagner's operas as a progression, Parsifal is the subtlest thing he ever wrote. It is much more abstract than the other music dramas, the sense of 'lived life' isn't so strong anymore, and the characters too are more symbolic (compare Alberich/Hagen and Klingsor, for example). The music is much more restrained and pared down (think of the Prelude), and also the orchestration is a miracle of refinement. Well, Pelléas et Mélisande is generally regarded as a work that carries this another step further. And I personally have always felt it that way, too - Pelléas et Mélisande seems, in a sense, to begin where Parsifal left off, the nec plus ultra of poetic subtlety in opera, IMO.

[marvinbrown]

Though I haven't voted, I do understand it. If you see Wagner's operas as a progression, Parsifal is the most subtle thing he ever wrote. It is much more abstract than the other music dramas, the sense of 'lived life' isn't so strong anymore, and the characters too are more symbolic (compare Alberich/Hagen and Klingsor, for example). The music is much more restrained and pared down (think of the Prelude), and also the orchestration is a miracle of refinement. Well, Pelléas et Mélisande is generally regarded as a work that carries this another step further. And I personally have always felt it that way, too - Pelléas et Mélisande seems, in a sense, to begin where Parsifal left off, the nec plus ultra of poetic subtlety in opera, IMO.

  In the context of musical progression I could see how your argument could be valid.  However I find it hard to believe that Wagner would compose an opera like P+M- it just lacks that Wagerian oomph, passion, fire whatever you want to call it. 

  marvin

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

  In the context of musical progression I could see how your argument could be valid.  However I find it hard to believe that Wagner would compose an opera like P+M- it just lacks that Wagnerian oomph, passion, fire whatever you want to call it. 

  marvin

Well, of course Wagner and Debussy are two very different composers, living through different times, born in different countries et cetera. And Pelléas simply doesn't aim for 'oomph, passion, fire'. It is a rather melancholy work set in a melancholy world. And there is a parallel with Parsifal there, too - think of the Grail world before Parsifal reinvigorates it at the end, think of that wonderful Prelude to the final act of Parsifal with its weariness and pain (which the Good Friday music will turn to radiance, of course - and there is that Wagnerian 'oomph'!)

[Hector]

I am gemini by birth and had twins - boy and a girl.

Congrats. Best to have them together. Saves problems later on.

Have a drink on me...or two

[Anne]

Holy two! as Robin would have said (you know, Batman's little friend).

Jezethanne is stalking the board...

I remember when the theme song for the TV program came on TV.  From all over the house came voices of the children singing as they sat down to watch their favorite program.

[Anne]

Congrats. Best to have them together. Saves problems later on.

Have a drink on me...or two

Agreed.  Thank you!  Do believe I will!  Cheers!

[Haffner]

Though I haven't voted, I do understand it. If you see Wagner's operas as a progression, Parsifal is the most subtle thing he ever wrote. It is much more abstract than the other music dramas, the sense of 'lived life' isn't so strong anymore, and the characters too are more symbolic (compare Alberich/Hagen and Klingsor, for example). The music is much more restrained and pared down (think of the Prelude), and also the orchestration is a miracle of refinement. Well, Pelléas et Mélisande is generally regarded as a work that carries this another step further. And I personally have always felt it that way, too - Pelléas et Mélisande seems, in a sense, to begin where Parsifal left off, the nec plus ultra of poetic subtlety in opera, IMO.

You are making this sound really great, J.

[Superhorn]

    If   you  want  to  hear  a  great   Wagneresque  opera   get   the  recent  Telarc  CD   of  Ernest
Chausson's   gorgeous  opera  Le  Roi  Arthus (King  Arthur)  conducted  by  Leon  Botstein,  who   has  also
done a concert  performance  in  New  York.  I  haven't  heard  this  recording, but it's  gotten   very
good  reviews. 
    I  got  to  know  this opera  from  the  Erato  Cd   conducted  by  the  late  Armin  Jordan,  with
Gino Quilico  and   the  late  Gosta  Winbergh,  which  I  believe  is  no  longer  available.
    Chausson   was  an  ardent  Wagnerite,  and   the  Wagnerian  influence   is  very  much  in  evidence,
but  the   music  still   has  the  composer's   own   individual   voice. 
    This  is  his  only  opera  and  was   premiered  in  Brussels   a  few  years  after   his   untimely  death 
in  a  bicycle  accident, a  tragic  loss.