Classical repertoire is soooooooo cliche nowadays

[MISHUGINA]

What is going wrong with the classical music scene? I've browsed websites of great philharmonic and symphony orchestras (eg: CSO, LSO, BPO etc) and their repertoire is dreadfully shallow. More usual diet of Mahler symphonies (as much as I'm still not tired of him yet), Tchaik symphonies, Mozart piano concertos, Shosty and Bruckner symphonies, some Beethoven. And "Rite of Spring" is becoming as overplayed as a Beethoven 5th warhorse. Even my local Philharmonic's repertoire has much more variety than this (our Malaysian Phil is playing Prokofiev's "Cinderella" suite, Britten's Violin Concerto, Barber's 1st symphony at least for the last few months before end of season). What say you folks?

[The new erato]

It was always llike that, the bigger, the safer.

[BachQ]

Overuse of the word cliché has become sooooooooo cliché nowadays ..........

[karlhenning]

You're just pulling our leg!  This corker is the key:

And "Rite of Spring" is becoming as overplayed as a Beethoven 5th warhorse.

Not in two hundred years, that won't happen. Who do you think you're kidding? 

[Cato]

Dude!  Looky here!       Gotta splain sumpin to ya!

Bruckner and Mahler apodictically can NEVER be cliched!

[quintett op.57]

I'm quite happy with the programs here in Paris.

The main problem for me is the lack of anglo-saxons & scandinavian composers.
Carl Nielsen is only hearable once this year (Entrance March from Aladdin).

But english composers are being promoted now (One great article in one of our main papers : Le Monde).
And Paavo Jarvi, who's going to be the next director of the Orchestra of Paris, will probably make us hear some danish & swedish pieces...

[karlhenning]

Carl Nielsen is only hearable once this year (Entrance March from Aladdin).

Not even the whole Suite?

[(poco) Sforzando]

Much as many of us would like to see more diversity and fearlessness in programming, orchestras are costly organizations that have to recoup their expenses. Here in the USA where there are no federal subsidies and salaries in the top orchestras can approach or exceed $100,000 a year, there has to be a balance between safety and risk. But I think there's more risk and diversity among the top American orchestras than you are willing to grant. For the less familiar stuff, there are often recordings. It's not an ideal situation, but if you were to look at the usual repertoire of perhaps 50 years ago, you'd see as much cliché (or even more) in Toscanini's programming with the NBC Symphony. But you'd also see a lot of adventurousness in the programming of such conductors as Stokowski, Mitropoulos, or Koussevitsky.

[greg]

More contemporary composers! During a regular season program, they'd only have like 3 or so works the whole year by living composers at the Orlando Phil. (though i couldn't go to any of them).

It's great when Mahler, Shosty, Stravinsky, etc. are programmed, but they've been played a million times before.... if more people were into classical, surely this wouldn't be a problem.

[ChamberNut]

What is going wrong with the classical music scene? I've browsed websites of great philharmonic and symphony orchestras (eg: CSO, LSO, BPO etc) and their repertoire is dreadfully shallow. More usual diet of Mahler symphonies (as much as I'm still not tired of him yet), Tchaik symphonies, Mozart piano concertos, Shosty and Bruckner symphonies, some Beethoven. And "Rite of Spring" is becoming as overplayed as a Beethoven 5th warhorse. Even my local Philharmonic's repertoire has much more variety than this (our Malaysian Phil is playing Prokofiev's "Cinderella" suite, Britten's Violin Concerto, Barber's 1st symphony at least for the last few months before end of season). What say you folks?

Cliche?    I'm still waiting for my local orchestra to play a Bruckner symphony, and I haven't yet heard a Mozart Piano Concerto.   

[MISHUGINA]

You're just pulling our leg!  This corker is the key:

Not in two hundred years, that won't happen. Who do you think you're kidding? 

Bah they should play more Petrushka at least.

[some guy]

What is going wrong with the classical music scene? I've browsed websites of great philharmonic and symphony orchestras (eg: CSO, LSO, BPO etc) and their repertoire is dreadfully shallow.

Well, it looks to me like you've answered your own question. "Great philharmonic and symphony orchestras" are only part of the "classical music scene," and almost never part of the contemporary scene. Even when they play pieces by living composers....

So look elsewhere would be my advice.

[ChamberNut]

"New music" festivals, I imagine, are offered in most cities.

Also, alot of orchestras are offering more concerts where one of the works is a "newer" classical work.  At least that's the case in my city.  Perhaps it's due to the fact we have a younger conductor.

[jochanaan]

"New music" festivals, I imagine, are offered in most cities.

Not on this side of the pond.

Also, alot of orchestras are offering more concerts where one of the works is a "newer" classical work.  At least that's the case in my city.  Perhaps it's due to the fact we have a younger conductor.

I wouldn't say it's due to the age of the conductor, but rather to his/her musical preferences, adventurous nature or lack thereof, and ability to fight for his/her programming choices.  Here in Denver, we enjoyed adventurous, challenging programming on a regular basis when Marin Alsop was the Colorado Symphony's music director; but under Jeffrey Kahane, the CSO programs have taken a definite "conservative" turn. (The orchestral playing has suffered some, but that's a different thread...)

[Kullervo]

Re. the thread name: Cliché is a noun, not an adjective

*the more you know*

[Heather Harrison]

I see the reason for the excessive playing of "safe" repertoire when I go to concerts.  The Utah Symphony mostly sticks to the safe stuff, but thankfully there are always a few concerts each year that stray considerably off the beaten path.  I go to many of their concerts, and I have observed that the house is usually half-empty when an adventurous program is presented, while the "safe" concerts are very well attended.  Given this, I am happy (and a bit surprised) that they perform unusual repertoire at all.  Some highlights of the year are their two concerts each season, featuring a smaller ensemble drawn from the orchestra, devoted entirely to music written within the last few decades.  The last one featured the music of George Crumb.  After Keith Lockhart leaves, I hope they find a new music director who will at least maintain the level of adventurous programming that they currently offer.  I will be disappointed if the orchestra moves in a conservative direction.

Chamber music and university concerts seem to go off the beaten path more often.  The University of Utah has numerous concerts throughout the year, and many of them are free.  I recently got to hear Messiaen's "Quartet for the End of Time" there, and I regularly encounter music farther off the beaten path than that.  These concerts tend to attract small crowds, but the audience is quite devoted; I see the same people again and again.

A wide variety is out there; you just need to know where to look.

Heather

[Grazioso]

What is going wrong with the classical music scene?

At least on the recording side, things have never been better, with a flood of really diverse works.

[karlhenning]

At least on the recording side, things have never been better, with a flood of really diverse works.

And in terms of performance, there is a greater community of capable orchestral musicians than ever.

[Monsieur Croche]

Such a cliched complaint, this. 

The reason for constant playing of safe repertoire is primarily financial; orchestras need money to operate and they are not going to perform works which the public doesn't want to hear - or which the director think the public doesn't want to hear. I recently read that - for Singapore's case at least - it costs around $500,000 to fly in a world-class orchestra for a performance! In Singapore the orchestra receives subsidies from the government, so the situation is not so bad here - This season we have Luis Bacalov's Misa Tango (a totally unknown composer to me), Schnittke, Rautavaara, the world premiere of J.A. Amargos' Recorder Concerto, a concert dedicated solely to contemporary Chinese composers... But it seems some are not happy with the way things are, and would actually prefer our local orchestra performing the same pieces over and over again!

Last month a self-professed classical music enthusiast (let's just call him Mr. M) wrote a letter to our local newspaper criticizing the avant-garde theme in the upcoming Singapore Arts Festival. It was just a short letter, but somehow the newspaper seemed to think it appropriate to feature an entire article just to respond to it. In that letter, Mr. M, who I suspect is unable to judge a music performance without foreknowledge of the performer's identity, lamented that Singapore is "seeing a decline in our ability to bring in big names in the entertainment and arts scene". Our Mr. M further stated that "our world-class venues are increasingly used by experimental, second- and third- grade acts" which have "lots of rhythm, colour, with no melody" - acts which I suppose he did not bother to even hear. He then compared Singapore's festival with that of Hong Kong, suggesting that the latter is somehow better because they have orchestras playing "Beethoven, Brahms, and Dvorak, among others" (he didn't mention Debussy!  ). Finally he concluded by saying that the festival is "a shame".

I think the real shame would be if we ever have someone like him in charge of the arts festival. I can already imagine what kind of top-notch programming he will come up for the festival: First year - Mozart, Beethoven, Tchaikovsky... Second year - Mozart, Beethoven, Tchaikovsky... Fifth year - Maybe we will try something 'interesting' this time, let's have some... Mahler! The entire symphony? Are you crazy? Nah, what about the Blumine as a curtain-raiser, then proceed with more of the old stuff? Stravinsky? Stravinsky?! Why, that would destabilize the entire country!

I imagine this discussion would be more fruitful if we focus instead on how those of us who deeply cares about modern music and lesser-known repertoire can make our presence felt and improve the situation; ranting anonymously behind the computer screen, as delightful as it may be, is ultimately a rather pointless and futile exercise (and yes, I'm frequently guilty of this as well).

Or would you rather be outdone by a dilettante who hates rhythm and colour?

[ChamberNut]

Orchestras should only play the good old stuff.....

Runs and hides......