Dvorak's Den

[hornteacher]

Well, as the Masked Dvorak Avenger, I just edited Wikipedia. The Wikipedia page for Dvorak's Seventh stated in the opening paragraph that the symphony was "reminiscent of Brahms' Symphony No 4." I changed that to "the symphony anticipates Brahms' Symphony No 4," the better to illustrate the fact that, contra popular belief, Dvorak actually came first. The two symphonies were, to be fair, written roughly at the same time.

Chronology:
Dvorak 1-5
Brahms 1
Brahms 2
Dvorak 6
Brahms 3
Dvorak 7
Brahms 4
Dvorak 8-9

This edit is part of my general campaign to get people to realize that Dvorak's influence on Brahms is underrated, and Brahms' influence on Dvorak is overrated. Next step in the battle: a MusicWeb review I'll be submitting tomorrow, blasting Marin Alsop for her new recording of the Seventh, in which she sadly attempts to "Brahmsify" the music.

Would love to read that Brian as I happen to agree with you.

[listener]

Dvořák's Humoresque   op.101 no.7 appears, mysteriously to some, in collections of railway music.  Railfans know it as the setting for the sign "Gentlemen will please refrain..."

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Who else loves the Piano Quartets? The relative neglect of them is puzzling. I've been luxuriating in this newish recording:



The first one (Op. 23) is typical early Dvorak: melodious, meandering, and charming, though without the structural integrity and concentration he later developed. The second (Op. 87) is a serious masterpiece, not inferior in my view to the Op. 81 Piano Quintet, and having one of D's best-ever slow movements.

[Brian]

Velimir, I'm going to give that a listen in the next day or two! I've got the album with the Suk Trio and a guest, on Supraphon...

~~~~

Charles Mackerras' new album of Dvorak's Symphonic Poems is a smash and has just been designated a MusicWeb Recording of the Month by yours truly. The link goes to the review. Here's a relevant excerpt, which maybe illustrates how my convictions about Dvorak's originality and his influence affect the recordings I like and dislike:

As bloody as the storylines are, the music is best described as festivals of forward-thinking orchestration, with eerie effects, dark solos for instruments like the bass clarinet, more percussion than is usual for Dvorák, and wide, even wayward rondo structures. The four tone poems, written near the end of the composer's life, had a significant impact on the music of Leoš Janácek, who conducted the premiere of The Wild Dove in 1898, as well as on the style of the man who led The Wild Dove's first Viennese performance: Gustav Mahler. It is fun to trace influences and listen for innovations in performances as sensitively conducted, and expertly played, as these. This is especially true because Supraphon's booklet notes are terrific, combining summaries of each poem's storyline with analyses of the tone poems' place in Dvorák's output and their influence on subsequent composers.

[...] The Noon Witch is a classic illustration of Dvorák's genius for surprising endings, and Mackerras gets the wild last few seconds perfectly.

The opening seconds of Golden Spinning Wheel, with the motoric cellos coupled to gentle cymbal crashes, are almost impossible to resist. This is the longest symphonic poem and the only one with a happy ending; Mackerras turns in the best performance I've ever heard. Here are sharp, precise rhythms, resplendent strings in the love music and an operatic pace which generates increasing excitement and drama as the piece proceeds, even in the central episode which sounds like a new Slavonic Dance. Compare this to the relatively tame, unexcitable Simon Rattle account on EMI, and the extra thrill of the Mackerras reading is even more obvious.

[Sergeant Rock]

Charles Mackerras' new album of Dvorak's Symphonic Poems is a smash and has just been designated a MusicWeb Recording of the Month by yours truly.

Good review, Brian. I suppose the purchase should be a no-brainer but I'm still hesitating. The Kubelik box is a classic and I'm really happy with Harnoncourt and the Concertgebouw performances which came coupled with the late symphonies and Piano Concerto. You wrote, "One might wish for more prominence for the percussion" which Harnoncourt provides (he seems to like noise   Think of his Abduction from the Seraglio or Haydn Missa in tempore belli "Paukenmesse").

Anyway, my question for you is: Have you heard Harnoncourt in the tone poems and, if so, how do they compare with Mackerras?

Sarge

[Brian]

Good review, Brian. I suppose the purchase should be a no-brainer but I'm still hesitating. The Kubelik box is a classic and I'm really happy with Harnoncourt and the Concertgebouw performances which came coupled with the late symphonies and Piano Concerto. You wrote, "One might wish for more prominence for the percussion" which Harnoncourt provides (he seems to like noise   Think of his Abduction from the Seraglio or Haydn Missa in tempore belli "Paukenmesse").

Anyway, my question for you is: Have you heard Harnoncourt in the tone poems and, if so, how do they compare with Mackerras?

Sarge

I've got Harnoncourt in The Wild Dove only, coupled to the Seventh. It really is a fantastic performance. I've just played them back to back. The Concertgebouw performance is recorded a bit better, with slightly more clarity, and for example the horns in the first bars and harp in the last bars are more evocative. On the other hand, I find myself preferring the Czech violins - less steely, and they don't clash with the other instruments as I hear happening once or twice with Harnoncourt.

The timings are similar [NH 19:46 / CM 19:35] but there are some definite differences in the conductors' approaches. Harnoncourt's opening - the exposition, perhaps, the first three minutes - is very subdued and eerie, Mackerras a little freer to let the dynamic levels rise and drop like a tide. I like Mackerras quite a bit in all of the transitional passages and where Harnoncourt draws more characterful or intriguing solos, Mackerras provides them with superior accompaniment. The violin solo at around 16:00 is the best illustration ... on Harnoncourt the winds seem to be going beep-beep-beep-beep in rather a rush, but Mackerras by this point has slowed down the pace of the music enough to make sense of it. Harnoncourt has great energy in the cheery episodes surrounding the love music, but Mackerras drives this music so hard that it almost seems insecure or neurotic, or at the other end of the spectrum, maybe the antiheroine is doing some sort of crazed Wicca dance on her husband's grave.  Interestingly, they handle the calm-down strings at 11:25ish almost identically (and both in contrast to the less legato Bavarians).

I think the Czech brass are more prominent even though the percussion is not; the timpani's got a sort of cavernous thing going on where it's far back but kind of thumpy and present anyways. In fact, the tap-tap timpani in the final bars are more effective on the Mackerras recording. Bottom line: both great, Mackerras a lot about contrast between episodes, great at transitions, Harnoncourt with maybe a better handle on orchestral effects and with maybe a finer orchestra anyway. The really great Mackerras performance is Golden Spinning Wheel, so you could look at his disc coupling that with Symphony No 6.

I'd always been a bit unfair about Kubelik because of the aging sound, and now putting his recording on (Wild Dove three times in a row... oy!), I think my main complaint sonically is the thin, wispy sound of the cymbals. They sound better suited to J Strauss. Kubelik's recording is the fastest of the three but maybe the greater breathing room the other two give - wait, I don't need to endorse playing things more slowly to Sergeant Rock. 

Anyhow, just based on the Wild Dove, if you're happy with Harnoncourt, you've got a lot to be happy about. I'd like to hear what NH does with the Spinning Wheel, to see if it matches up with the miracles Mackerras works...not least of which is making sure that none of the 25 minutes are boring or repetitive.

[Sergeant Rock]

The really great Mackerras performance is Golden Spinning Wheel, so you could look at his disc coupling that with Symphony No 6....Anyhow, just based on the Wild Dove, if you're happy with Harnoncourt, you've got a lot to be happy about.

Really appreciate the quick and comprehensive reply, Brian. I must have caught you in a rare idle moment  And yes, I am happy with Harnoncourt so maybe your suggestion of getting the Sixth Symphony/Spinning Wheel instead is the way to go. I could use another Sixth..and judging by your enthusiasm and the Hurwitzer's 10/10, it sounds fantastic. By the way, he says this about the coupled tone poem: "The Golden Spinning Wheel also receives what is arguably its finest performance on disc, even considering Harnoncourt's outstanding recent version."

Thanks much 

Sarge

[cosmicj]

Who else loves the Piano Quartets? The relative neglect of them is puzzling. I've been luxuriating in this newish recording:

The first one (Op. 23) is typical early Dvorak: melodious, meandering, and charming, though without the structural integrity and concentration he later developed. The second (Op. 87) is a serious masterpiece, not inferior in my view to the Op. 81 Piano Quintet, and having one of D's best-ever slow movements.

Velimir - I too love the Piano Quartets and agree with your comments.  Two terrific pieces.  I have the Domus recording, which I like very much.

[cosmicj]

Brian/Sarge - Thanks for this discussion.  I like The Wood Dove especially but have Jarvi's account, which appears to have been surpassed by these two recent recordings. 

[Lethevich]

@cosmicj: I have a soft spot for Järvi's Dvorak tone poems. They're more consistent than his symphony recordings, and are in good sound and well-played and paced. It's a compliment to them that I compare every new performance to them, as these are the most naturally/straightly played (without being tepid) that I know of. Many other recordings play up some extreme of varying kinds. The deal-maker is that unlike many sets Järvi includes the (admittedly crappy) 5th poem The Hero's Song, and also has a great recording of one of the overtures to fill out the second disc. I certainly won't be dumping it no matter how many other versions I accumilate

[cosmicj]

Lethe - Thanks for the eval.

[Guido]

Does anyone know any of Dvorak's operas other than Rusalka? Are they good?

[listener]

I have on LP: Rusalka, Armida, The Jacobin (saw it in Zürich, too), and Kate and the Devil.
on CD: The Stubborn Lovers (boy and girl gotta get to meet to know they are meant for each other kind of story), The King and the Charcoal Burner (abridged), and The Cunning Peasant.
If you like the strong folk elements in Smetana's The Bartered Bride, Lortzing's Zar un Zimmermann and Moniuszko's Halka, Dvorak's operas have a similar appeal..   The Stubborn Lovers is complete on one disc so would make a good choice for further listening.
Dmitri is also available on CD, I've not seen Vanda or Alfred listed.

[mc ukrneal]

Does anyone know any of Dvorak's operas other than Rusalka? Are they good?

Yes, and listener has preety much listed them all. I have Der Jakobiner and Kral a Uhlir (King and Charcoal Burner) on the Orfeo label. Both are well done - and sound fabulous. They can be a little pricey - I had to wait for a good deal to get my price, but the operas are good: lots of good tunes, quality singing, and good sound. I believe these are either unabridged or with minor cuts only, but I would need to check to be sure.

I also have Dmitri, which I haven't yet really gotten into yet, but couldn't resist. It is also a well done prodcution, again conducted by Gerd Albrecht, but this time on Supraphpon. I have yet to hear the others, but these three keep me wanting more and I am sure I will buy a fifth (I have Rusalka too) over the course of the next year (I've been acquiring about one per year). Listener's description of the Stubborn Lovers intrigues me (sounds like a good choice and not so pricey on one disc if you aren't sure).

[Sergeant Rock]

Amen!   0:)

Okay people!  If Sarge and Cato übereinstimmen, it must be true!    

Order your copies today!

Hey, Cato...the Hurwitzer agrees with us 

http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=12890


Sarge

[not edward]

Piano quintets....any recommendations (primarily for the second of the two). I have, and really enjoy, Curzon with the Budapest Quartet, but maybe I should have one in more uptodate sound.

Also, any particular recommendations for the later quartets? I do really like the last two in particular, but am not sure what are the canonical performances....Talich, Panochka, perhaps?

[Scarpia]

Piano quintets....any recommendations (primarily for the second of the two). I have, and really enjoy, Curzon with the Budapest Quartet, but maybe I should have one in more uptodate sound.

Also, any particular recommendations for the later quartets? I do really like the last two in particular, but am not sure what are the canonical performances....Talich, Panochka, perhaps?

These (Panocha) are highly regarded, and relatively inexpensive if you shop around (www.mdt.co.uk or Amazon marketplace).  I've ordered them but not listened.

[Franco]

These (Panocha) are highly regarded, and relatively inexpensive if you shop around (www.mdt.co.uk or Amazon marketplace).  I've ordered them but not listened.

I have both and have listened and have been very happy with them.

[hornteacher]

Piano quintets....any recommendations (primarily for the second of the two). I have, and really enjoy, Curzon with the Budapest Quartet, but maybe I should have one in more uptodate sound.

If you don't mind a single CD as opposed to a set, this recording is marvelous both in performance in sound quality.

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?ordertag=Workrecom5298-8788&album_id=8788

[Brian]

I heard the second quintet for the first time live, last year, with none other than Menahem Pressler at the keys (with the American Quartet). Afterwards, I sought out the Panocha recording, but just didn't think it was the same ... maybe they had too much to live up to. I'll revisit it.