Most Intelligent Composers

[(poco) Sforzando]

By your measure, Wagner is only surpassed in intelligence by Britney Spears.

Or George W. Bush . . . .

[marvinbrown]

The statement makes no reference to intelligence, and I fail to see why some remark tossed of by Mahler is in any way decisive in determining this question.  Presumably Mahler admired Wagner for pioneering the concept of music that goes on way too long, a critical component of Mahler's work.
By your measure, Wagner is only surpassed in intelligence by Britney Spears.  He certainly was original, but he failed to mold those original elements into true masterworks because of his intellectual weakness. 

  Rubbish- and even you don't believe that!  None of you do!

So after all these posts we have reached this conclusion that Tristan und Isolde, The Ring, Parsifal and Die Meistersingers are not masterworks and those two American idiots Brtiney Spears and George W. Bush are on equal intellectual footing with Wagner - I'm wasting my time in this thread! 

  marvin   

[(poco) Sforzando]

  Rubbish- and even you don't believe that!  None of you do!

So after all these posts we have reached this conclusion that Tristan und Isolde, The Ring, Parsifal and Die Meistersingers are not masterworks and those two American idiots Brtiney Spears and George W. Bush are on equal intellectual footing with Wagner - I'm wasting my time in this thread! 

  marvin   

Are you so lacking in humor?

[head-case]

  Rubbish- and even you don't believe that!  None of you do!

So after all these posts we have reached this conclusion that Tristan und Isolde, The Ring, Parsifal and Die Meistersingers are not masterworks and those two American idiots Brtiney Spears and George W. Bush are on equal intellectual footing with Wagner - I'm wasting my time in this thread! 

  marvin   

The point is not that Britney Spears is intelligent, but that the argument you put forward is logically invalid.  I you don't get that, well, let's just say you may not be in the running for most intelligent poster.   

Are you so lacking in humor?

Like Wagner himself.

[Haffner]

I think alot of people are really turned off to Wagner whenever they perceive that someone else is being too strident in their advocation of him/it. This is easy to sympathize with, in my basically-dumb opinion.

[marvinbrown]

The point is not that Britney Spears is intelligent, but that the argument you put forward is logically invalid.  I you don't get that, well, let's just say you may not be in the running for most intelligent poster.   

  And neither are you, think how intellegint you sounded when you claimed that Wagner did not produce any masterworks !

  I'm done with this thread!

  marvin

[karlhenning]

. . . So after all these posts we have reached this conclusion that Tristan und Isolde, The Ring, Parsifal and Die Meistersingers are not masterworks . . . .

Let's restate the obvious yet again:  These may all be masterworks, and yet it will not mean that Wagner is the Supreme Intelligence among composers.

[karlhenning]

Enjoying your scores this morning, Karl, no music, just reading. Just got the Bruckner 4th and 7th scores as well. Happy reading!

Thanks, Andy!

[MN Dave]

Which was the strongest composer?

Which had the highest dexterity?

Which composer had the best constitution?

Which composer was most charismatic?

Which composer was wisest?

[Thank you, Dungeons and Dragons]

[(poco) Sforzando]

Which was the strongest composer?

Which had the highest dexterity?

Which composer had the best constitution?

Which composer was most charismatic?

Which composer was wisest?

[Thank you, Dungeons and Dragons]

Which had the biggest . . . . ?

[karlhenning]

Which was the strongest composer?

Satie, who may possibly have lifted an upright piano to rest atop another.

Which had the highest dexterity?

I'll guess either Liszt, Saint-Saëns or Rakhmaninov;  when you're that good a pianist, all ten fingers are limber and dexterous.

Which composer had the best constitution?

Shostakovich; he had to stomach a great deal over the course of a long career.

Which composer was most charismatic?

Wagner (oh, what a give-away)

Which composer was wisest?

Well, John Cage was perhaps the wisest-guy.

[head-case]

Let's restate the obvious yet again:  These may all be masterworks, and yet it will not mean that Wagner is the Supreme Intelligence among composers.

Yes, that's the point.

[Rod Corkin]

Are you so lacking in humor?

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!!

[karlhenning]

Sforzando has a fine sense of humor.

[MN Dave]

Sforzando has a fine sense of humor.

Indeed.

[not edward]

I think Rod must have been referring to the post he was in the process of writing.

[head-case]

Sforzando has a fine sense of humor.

Quite so.

[karlhenning]

Genius doesnt mean perfect or without flaw. Nor does it mean 'good person' or being 'omniscient' either.

Sure.

But that isn't the question (see subject header, above).

[BachQ]

Mahler also claimed that Brahms was Germany's greatest contrapuntist after Bach, greater then either Beethoven or Wagner.

So then, as to the question of intelligence, let us stipulate as follows: Brahms > Beethoven

[karlhenning]

There is major overlap between 'genius' and 'intelligence'.

Not necessarily, and again, it depends on how intelligence is defined.