Schubert's 9th Symphony - Recordings that you like

[M forever]

Nononononono Sarge, that's not how it works here. You are *entitled* to and *supposed* to have a very strong opinion even though you may not really have done much if any comparative listening. If you know only one or two recordings of a piece, you are supposed to say "these are the best" or just list them without any further commentary. That's how 95% of the participants in this forum operate. Then, if somebody asks you "why" or wonders what basis your recommendation is made on, then you are supposed to get really upset and feel unjustly and viciously attacked. See how that works?

[Gurn Blanston]

Nononononono Sarge, that's not how it works here. You are *entitled* to and *supposed* to have a very strong opinion even though you may not really have done much if any comparative listening. If you know only one or two recordings of a piece, you are supposed to say "these are the best" or just list them without any further commentary. That's how 95% of the participants in this forum operate. Then, if somebody asks you "why" or wonders what basis your recommendation is made on, then you are supposed to get really upset and feel unjustly and viciously attacked. See how that works?

While that is frequently true, my wish in starting this thread was that it might set some sort of example to change. While my OP was modest, my intentions were bigger than that.   (notice: not "best recording", but "recordings that you like".)

So instead, I would ask Sarge to think about starting a thread on the 2nd, for example, which I am also quite fond of.



----------------
Listening to:
Beethoven - Ronald Brautigam - Op 002 #3 Sonata #03 in C 1st mvmt - Allegro con brio

[M forever]

This thread, as well as a discussion of recordings of this symphony which I sometimes call "my favorite piece of music" with Mr Pastia a few months ago, as well as the PM correspondence you and me had about that subject recently, has inspired me to revisit a lot of recordings and check out some new ones, so before long, I will probably post some thoughts about some outstanding recordings of this symphony, too. In case you wonder, I haven't yet come across one that I find more convincing and stylish than the Sinopoli recording which I recommended and which you apparently like a lot, too.

[Lilas Pastia]

This week, Rolf von Otter's web site features the 1943 Concertgebouw van Kempen recording. I had downloaded that a month or so ago and commended its strong personality. Alas, the sound was crummy at best. I hope Rolf was able to work on it and make it more palatable to the avereage pair of ears. It's a really individual performance that deserves hearing. I'll try to hear it for myself before flying to Europe next Tuesday.

[Gurn Blanston]

This thread, as well as a discussion of recordings of this symphony which I sometimes call "my favorite piece of music" with Mr Pastia a few months ago, as well as the PM correspondence you and me had about that subject recently, has inspired me to revisit a lot of recordings and check out some new ones, so before long, I will probably post some thoughts about some outstanding recordings of this symphony, too. In case you wonder, I haven't yet come across one that I find more convincing and stylish than the Sinopoli recording which I recommended and which you apparently like a lot, too.

I am pleased for that. Although you and Lilas already post wonderfully well. I'm hoping that others will be suitably inspired to do likewise. It would be frightfully nice if we raised the level of discourse here beyond the "it has a good beat, you can dance to it. I'll give it an 86, Dick" level.   (OK, not many here old enough to remember THAT!)



----------------
Listening to:
Beethoven - Ronald Brautigam - Op 049 #2 Sonata #20 in G 1st mvmt - Allegro, ma non troppo

[MN Dave]

I am pleased for that. Although you and Lilas already post wonderfully well. I'm hoping that others will be suitably inspired to do likewise. It would be frightfully nice if we raised the level of discourse here beyond the "it has a good beat, you can dance to it. I'll give it an 86, Dick" level.   (OK, not many here old enough to remember THAT!)

Not everyone is here to review recordings. Some are here to be among like-minded music listeners. And just because someone writes a lengthy post doesn't make it interesting or any good. 

[Gurn Blanston]

Not everyone is here to review recordings. Some are here to be among like-minded music listeners. And just because someone writes a lengthy post doesn't make it interesting or any good. 

Doesn't have to be lengthy, just honest. I can't see where it ever hurts to say why one likes or doesn't like a recording. Even if the reasons are mundane, they can be judged by the reader. As in "yes, disks like that bother me too. I'll probably pass". Or conversely "I know what he means, but I have other disks with that issue and they don't bother me". At least it's information.



----------------
Listening to:
Beethoven - Ronald Brautigam - Op 007 Sonata #04 in Eb 1st mvmt - Allegro molto e con brio

[M forever]

Not everyone is here to review recordings. Some are here to be among like-minded music listeners. And just because someone writes a lengthy post doesn't make it interesting or any good. 

Very true. But at least some people try to communicate some content and information and have a discussion, and sometimes, other people benefit from that, especially when they get pointed to recordings they then get (because whatever has been said about them awakens their interest) and really enjoy.

I don't know if you read what I originally wrote about that Sinopoli recording which made Gurn get it and which triggered this thread, but let's just run a quick test here to illustrate my point. Let's say I just say:

"That CD is da bomb."

OK, so, tell me, how much valuable information for you does that statement contain?

[MN Dave]

Very true. But at least some people try to communicate some content and information and have a discussion, and sometimes, other people benefit from that, especially when they get pointed to recordings they then get (because whatever has been said about them awakens their interest) and really enjoy.

I don't know if you read what I originally wrote about that Sinopoli recording which made Gurn get it and which triggered this thread, but let's just run a quick test here to illustrate my point. Let's say I just say:

"That CD is da bomb."

OK, so, tell me, how much valuable information for you does that statement contain?

I know what you're saying, but how many of us can talk about music like you can?

[Gurn Blanston]

I know what you're saying, but how many of us can talk about music like you can?

Well, damn, Dave! I sure can't! That's why I just posted something about the work, what recordings I knew, and what about this one that I liked. It wasn't much at all, but it started a pretty good discussion about favorite recordings: there are an above average number of good posts here.



----------------
Listening to:
Beethoven - Ronald Brautigam - Op 007 Sonata #04 in Eb 2nd mvmt - Largo, con gran espressione

[MN Dave]

Well, damn, Dave! I sure can't! That's why I just posted something about the work, what recordings I knew, and what about this one that I liked. It wasn't much at all, but it started a pretty good discussion about favorite recordings: there are an above average number of good posts here.



----------------
Listening to:
Beethoven - Ronald Brautigam - Op 007 Sonata #04 in Eb 2nd mvmt - Largo, con gran espressione

Hell, I just started a thread with one sentence. It hasn't snowballed yet, but I remember a Beethoven thread that did. 

[Gurn Blanston]

Hell, I just started a thread with one sentence. It hasn't snowballed yet, but I remember a Beethoven thread that did. 

I'll grant you, the pictures are interesting...

But WHY is piano music best? Better than violin? I think not...



----------------
Listening to:
Beethoven - Ronald Brautigam - Op 007 Sonata #04 in Eb 3rd mvmt - Allegro

[MN Dave]

I'll grant you, the pictures are interesting...

But WHY is piano music best? Better than violin? I think not...



----------------
Listening to:
Beethoven - Ronald Brautigam - Op 007 Sonata #04 in Eb 3rd mvmt - Allegro

Because I said so.

Damn, that's not good enough, is it? 

[M forever]

I know what you're saying, but how many of us can talk about music like you can?

Talking (or writing) about music is very difficult for me, too (in German just as much as in English). Some people have a much greater talent for writing about music in a way which illustartes their points colorfully. But if we don't at least try to word our impressions and explain why we have this or that opinion, and why we think it has some validity or not, then there is no real discussion or information exchange, no actual communication. I like to practice writing (or speaking) about music, and that is the main reason I participate in forums such as these apart from wanting to find out about interesting recordings that I hadn't been aware of and yes, also just generally shooting the shit online with some people who have a similar interest because it can be such a relaxing pastime.

[MN Dave]

Talking (or writing) about music is very difficult for me, too (in German just as much as in English). Some people have a much greater talent for writing about music in a way which illustartes their points colorfully. But if we don't at least try to word our impressions and explain why we have this or that opinion, and why we think it has some validity or not, then there is no real discussion or information exchange, no actual communication. I like to practice writing (or speaking) about music, and that is the main reason I participate in forums such as these apart from wanting to find out about interesting recordings that I hadn't been aware of and yes, also just generally shooting the shit online with some people who have a similar interest because it can be such a relaxing pastime.

Very inspiring. Thanks.

[Bonehelm]

Schubert's 9th can be a favourite?

[Renfield]

Schubert's 9th can be a favourite?

Amazingly, yes.


Regarding the main topic, after my comment on how much I enjoyed the Sinopoli, I've been scavenging around my collection for other Schubert 9ths I have as part of cycles, bundled with 8ths, or just whimsically purchased.

And although it's not likely to displace the 8th with regard to my affections, I am starting to wonder how I'd failed to realise the beauty of this symphony previously; likely my vicious "Unfinished-hunting" to blame!


So the point is, incidental purchases as they might have been, I count 12 in my collection:

Munch
Kleiber (Sr.)
Fricsay
Sinopoli
3x Karajan
Bernstein
Marriner
Harnoncourt
Rattle
Fürtwangler


I've gone through the Sinopoli and the Bernstein in my re-run so far. Anyone have a favourite among the rest for me to continue with? I hope to have gone through them all before long, and posted a more informed view than "I remember liking X", for once!

(I'm thinking of either the Harnoncourt or a Karajan, next - the former because I remember loving his cycle, the latter because he's almost always my reference.)


P.S.: About the Sinopoli Philharmonia 8th, I'll need to listen to it at least another time to confirm my first impressions, but I found it quite deservingly regarded as one of the best (at least among the 15 I have; alas, Wand not included).

[knight66]

OK, I have been convinced; I have ordered the Sinopoli. This is a work I know fairly well in a superficial sense; but I have never been very enthusiastic about it. I used to own the Solti version. I thought it was OK, but rather business like. I have the complete symphonies with Harnoncourt. I really ought not to buy these boxes as I don't concentrate properly on them. I have only really listened to about half the discs. But the 9th was the first one I listened to and I enjoyed it, especially the feeling of organic music making. Whereas with Solti, (who I like in a number of works), I felt he was playing the score, with Harnoncourt, I got the feeling he was making music, experimenting more with textures and exploring the music rather than playing through. I am not sure about the acoustic though; it sounds like a big boomy space. Nice for that initial horncall, but then too much reverberation for me.

So, I will wait for the Sinopoli and hope it has that cumulative effect suggested. In its unshowy way the 9th is really quite epic.

Mike

[Renfield]

In its unshowy way the 9th is really quite epic.

Mike

Well said!

[Lilas Pastia]

I only know two Karajans (BPO EMI and DG). Where's the third one from ?

Listened to von Otter's restoration of the 1943 van Kempen (Amsterdam Concertgebouw) . There are problems with the sound, although it's been nicely cleaned up. The most egregious one is the inaudibility of the timpani throughout (except when playing very softly as in II and III). It robs the climaxes of 50% of their decibel power, as well as leaving the other instruments up in the air. That being said, there are sections in this reading I haven't heard as well done anywhere else. It's a very singing Schubert 9th, never hurried, fastidiously articulated and with great attention to internal balances (much detail comes through despite the faded acoustics). A specialist's 9th, but since it's a free download, there's no reason not to give it a try.

Edited for multiple typos