Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier

[Mandryka]

I sampled it, it has many of the qualities I liked about Book 1; slower pieces are played a bit more on the slow side, faster ones at a good tempo and ornamentation that doesn't sound over the top. Overall feels vivid and expressive as her first Book. I don't play harpsichord nor am I am expert so I'm not really sure how to express this in purely technical terms, for me what I hear is a "vertical-ness" in her playing that lends to how expressive she is.

I think what she does is humane and tender, that approach may be unusual in Book 2.

[milk]

Yes you should hear it, I can't promise you'll like it, but I certainly played it a lot when it first came out and I thought it had some interesting things in there, and it sounded good.

I like what I'm hearing from her. Also, I put on Van Asperen's B2 today. He's also surprisingly sunny at times and tender, not as apocalyptic is Watchorn I think. Having stepped away From Watchorn for a while, I appreciate his drama.
One set that only gets mentioned now and then is Levin. This is one of the first recordings that drew me into Bach so I have special affection for it. What's interesting is how he's, alternatively, brisk and grand, straightforward and dramatic. It's usually the organ, which he employs for the b-flat minor, that brings his "horror" side. Though, again, sometimes he also uses the organ for joy and play.

[Mandryka]

Review of the new Frisch here

Quatre ans après le livre I, Céline Frisch publie le livre II.
Après un premier Livre, tout de ruissellement lumineux, sous le signe des eaux vives aux fraicheurs étincelantes. Changement de clavecin : au clavecin d'une grâce presque juvénile d'Anthony Sidey et Frédéric Bal (1995), d'après Silbermann (1683-1753), succède un clavecin Andrea Restelli (1998) d'après Christian Vater (1738), d'une superbe plénitude : basses profondes, aigus tout à la fois clairs et épanouis, d'une très grande homogénéité. Un clavecin d'été. Son magnifique que sert excellemment, comme pour le premier Livre Aline Blondiau. Pour moi, d'un point de vue sonore, c'est une merveille, dont l'écoute jamais ne lasse.
Alternant déploiements conduits avec une maîtrise impeccable (prélude en ut dièse majeur, prélude en la majeur), énergie conquérante (prélude et fugue en ré majeur), hauteur sévère de certaine fugues (fugue en mi bémol majeur, fugue en mi majeur), résolution des tensions en déflagrations jubilatoires (prélude en ré mineur), intelligence des registrations au service d'une dynamique (prélude en ré dièse mineur, prélude en la mineur), flux scintillants (prélude en si bémol mineur, prélude en mi mineur). Et des cantabile à tomber par terre (le prélude en ut dièse mineur, prélude en mi bémol majeur, prélude en fa dièse majeur)
Pour moi, ma version préférée au clavecin. Diapason d'or à sa sortie

[staxomega]

I like Watchorn as well in Book 2, I think it is his broad tempi that lend itself to some of those more serious pieces, on the other hand I do think it becomes excessively labored in some pieces, the A Minor Prelude quickly comes to mind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LyiGBcj7d4

I think what she does is humane and tender, that approach may be unusual in Book 2.

Hard to disagree with that, so far I do prefer her in Book 1. Her Book 2 does warrant more listening and it's growing on me.

[milk]

By applying so many instruments to Bk2, harpsichord, clavichord, organ and fortepiano, Robert Levin creates a lively and engaging listening experience. I think he's good on each medium and necessarily different, though I think he's usually brisk. In this sense, Levin is unique. There is nothing quite like it.   

[prémont]

Have you seen this?

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8618134--j-s-bach-six-partitas-bwv-825-830

[milk]

Have you seen this?

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8618134--j-s-bach-six-partitas-bwv-825-830

Wow. I had no idea. Weird. I know he did the English Suites on modern piano years ago too. He seemed to specialize in period Mozart also. So, I wonder why modern piano?

[Mandryka]

Wow. I had no idea. Weird. I know he did the English Suites on modern piano years ago too. He seemed to specialize in period Mozart also. So, I wonder why modern piano?

The booklet of that is very interesting, I don't know if this link will work for you if you're not a qobuz member but give it a try

https://static.qobuz.com/goodies/14/000127241.pdf

[prémont]

Wow. I had no idea. Weird. I know he did the English Suites on modern piano years ago too. He seemed to specialize in period Mozart also. So, I wonder why modern piano?

Concerning the English suites he offered no real explanation for his choice. He just said, that he had played the suites on harpsichord and piano for a number of years and had found, that the piano serves the music the best.

[milk]

The booklet of that is very interesting, I don't know if this link will work for you if you're not a qobuz member but give it a try

https://static.qobuz.com/goodies/14/000127241.pdf

That does work! Thanks! I'll look into it. Just glancing at it, I see there's some interesting stuff here about manuscripts and ornamentation. One thing I notice right away about his playing is that there's nothing romantic about Levin. I'm thinking he's thoroughly versed in baroque idiom and Bach research. I usually like things slower. But he doesn't do any of the annoying things some pianists do though I'll have to see what to make of the ornamentations and these very quick tempos.

[prémont]

The booklet of that is very interesting, I don't know if this link will work for you if you're not a qobuz member but give it a try

https://static.qobuz.com/goodies/14/000127241.pdf

Not much new here. The rhythm problems have been discussed very much before. And as to instrument chosen he now says, that he chose the piano to meet the listeners expectations!! He says that the three-part Ricercare from das Opfer is meant for fortepiano - he may be right -  but he also says, that the six-part Ricercare is for fortepiano, and there is no reason whatsoever to think so, - actually it is written in a more organ like style.

[Mandryka]

This is the idea which caught my attention, because I didn't know that this practice, which is indeed widespread, finds its justification in Bach's own processes of rewriting.

What do we learn from studying Bach's autographs?
How does this help us understand his music?

         The manuscripts testify to an acute sense of adaption - I dare not use the word "tinkering" - of Bach. In fact, each time  he was working on a score, he added free ornamentation  to the student's copy. By "free ornamentation", I do not only mean a catalogue of ornaments indicated by symbols such as trills or mordants, for example, but a free ornamentation in the character of an improvisation, a natural step to any personal interpretation. In this way, I can play certain passages several times in a row in very different ways.

[prémont]

This is the idea which caught my attention, because I didn't know that this practice, which is indeed widespread, finds its justification in Bach's own processes of rewriting.

I do not think, that Bach's habit to add ornamentation to his pupils manuscripts can be called rewriting, because they do not change the basic structure of the music. He obviously just wanted to give his pupils some suggestions as to how to ornament the music in a spontaneous manner.

[milk]

I do not think, that Bach's habit to add ornamentation to his pupils manuscripts can be called rewriting, because they do not change the basic structure of the music. He obviously just wanted to give his pupils some suggestions as to how to ornament the music in a spontaneous manner.

Sorry, I had absolutely no idea about this. Roughly how many student manuscripts exist? Do different well-known recordings draw from these suggested ornamentations? Which come to mind? I have to reread this but it seems a little context is missing for the lay people.

[prémont]

Roughly how many student manuscripts exist?

Don't know exactly. My knowledge of this stems from Urtext editions (sheet music) which mention the variants in the accompanying text (Revisionsbericht).

Do different well-known recordings draw from these suggested ornamentations?

No, as well as not at all. Modern performers prefer to add their own ornamentation.

Which come to mind?

First come to mind the different versions of the two part Inventions and in particular the three part Sinfonias (which served as early instruction for the pupils), some just with "standard" ornamentation, and others with copious "free" ornamentation. But still the overall structure of the music isn't changed. This has nothing to do with rewriting.

The different versions of e.g. the courante of the second French suite or of the end of the sarabande of the fifth French suite may on the other hand be seen as phases in Bach's compositional process and have nothing with the pupils to do.

[Andy D.]

What do you enjoy here for recordings (either or both books)?  HIP and Non-HIP suggestions welcome.

When I feel like listening to WTC I haul out the Hewitt.

[milk]

Don't know exactly. My knowledge of this stems from Urtext editions (sheet music) which mention the variants in the accompanying text (Revisionsbericht).No, as well as not at all. Modern performers prefer to add their own ornamentation.First come to mind the different versions of the two part Inventions and in particular the three part Sinfonias (which served as early instruction for the pupils), some just with "standard" ornamentation, and others with copious "free" ornamentation. But still the overall structure of the music isn't changed. This has nothing to do with rewriting.

The different versions of e.g. the courante of the second French suite or of the end of the sarabande of the fifth French suite may on the other hand be seen as phases in Bach's compositional process and have nothing with the pupils to do.

Still, isn't it interesting to hear some of the ornamentation that Bach would have suggested? I'm very curious what kind of things he would have given. Are his ideas for students very subtle? - I wonder. I never heard of this. This is news to me.

[prémont]

Still, isn't it interesting to hear some of the ornamentation that Bach would have suggested? I'm very curious what kind of things he would have given. Are his ideas for students very subtle? - I wonder. I never heard of this. This is news to me.

The ornamented versions of the inventions and synphonies are printed in the Henle Urtext edition, some of it can be seen here (click "look inside"):

https://www.henle.de/us/detail/?Title=Inventions%20and%20Sinfonias_589

I have played them myself, but never heard them performed or recorded as such.

[milk]

Genzoh Takehisa goes all in with the pedal harpsichord on his 2017 recording of B1 (unless my ears are deceiving me, I think it's a pedal). You'll be the judge of whether this succeeds. He's quite the individual too when it comes to employing hesitations - articulation. If you likes a steady pulse then this will drive you nuts. Does he do too much? But I think there are some places where he's quite the artist. ETA: sounds like Takehista is using a variety of instruments, including a fortepiano. It's worth checking out what he's doing though sometimes he sounds a bit cluttered to my ear.

[Mandryka]

It looks like Yo Tomita is about to publish a book on WTC2, some notes here on what he has to say about the relation between WTC and psalms.


http://www.music.qub.ac.uk/tomita/WTC2Psalm/index.html

The ornamented versions of the inventions and synphonies are printed in the Henle Urtext edition, some of it can be seen here (click "look inside"):

https://www.henle.de/us/detail/?Title=Inventions%20and%20Sinfonias_589

I have played them myself, but never heard them performed or recorded as such.

Apparently Mahan Esfahani has argued that some of Bach's ornamentated versions were revisions designed to bring the music more in line with fashions of the time, make it more up to date.