Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier

[prémont]

Does he have a recording of Book 1?

He has recorded both books.

[prémont]

Let me know if you want the Demus. I think that Nikolayeva is also worth a listen.

Thanks, but I have the Demus downloaded somewhere.

[prémont]

Not for me.  His playing reminds of when I was in music school and would hear organ majors play the piano.  Horrible touch.

From brief listening he seems to really emphasize contrapuntal element. I can see that being polarizing.

That's why I like him. He has a sober touch without pianistic dynamical overdifferentiating of individual notes, and the displaying of the counterpoint is very clear. He certainly plays the WTC as baroque music.

[prémont]

I'm gonna still push George Lepauw whom I think could get some more love. It's a crowded field to be sure. And, as almost everyone seems to agree, Demus live is kicking around if you can find it. But I scratch my head as to why Lepauw doesn't seem to rate here, especially as, to me,

I already commented Lepauw in post 1823 of this very thread:

Presto offers the first minute of all 96 pieces as clips, so I listened to these. It seems to be a thoughtful interpretation and maybe a bit overthought. First I liked his calm tempi, but as listening went forth I began to find the pace of many of the pieces severely dragging and depriving the music of its tension. Also his mannered agogoics felt unnatural in the long run. On the plus side is his modest dynamic excursions and a crystal clear part-playing and articulation and the fact, that he is able to play a real non-legato on the piano without without falling into the trap of playing Gouldian hyperstaccato. Lepauw's estetics seems to me clavichord related, and maybe his WTC might have made a better impact on a clavichord.

[San Antone]

That's why I like him. He has a sober touch without pianistic dynamical overdifferentiating of individual notes, and the displaying of the counterpoint is very clear. He certainly plays the WTC as baroque music.

Why use a piano if you aren't going to play it as a piano?

[staxomega]

That's why I like him. He has a sober touch without pianistic dynamical overdifferentiating of individual notes, and the displaying of the counterpoint is very clear. He certainly plays the WTC as baroque music.

Thanks, and for the info on Book 1. I'm looking forward to hearing more.

Why use a piano if you aren't going to play it as a piano?

It might be that someone prefers it interpreted like this but doesn't like the sound of harpsichord. When I was living in apartments and chose to only listen to headphones, I found the vast majority of harpsichord recordings very difficult to listen to as they are often mic'd too closely. I'm not even a recording quality snob, but when it is actually difficult to listen to the music via headphones I just opted to stay with piano.

Fortunately when I got speakers I came to really love harpsichord. Still, I can think of maybe half dozen recordings among hundreds where I think the mic'ing is perfect, ones like Bob van Asperen playing the French Suites immediately come to mind.

I personally prefer a wide variety of interpretations for whatever I'm in the mood to hear. From Koroliov's bit more angular vision, Edwin Fischer's beautiful legato to Leonhardt's sobering, humble view. Actually one of my favorites and sadly he only recorded a handful of pieces is a live recording from Wilhelm Backhaus where he does all sorts of strange things including playing with desyncopated hands.

[Mandryka]

What a pleasure it's been this afternoon to revisit Rübsam! It's all the WTC I need at the moment.

[Mandryka]

Why use a piano if you aren't going to play it as a piano?

That's a misleading thing to say, there's more dynamic variation than a clavichord, but it's certainly more restrained the Edwin Fischer in the same music, for example. As far as your comment about touch goes, it's not uniform, within a phrase there's often quite a bit of liaison. I especially appreciate the way he balances the voices. I think Schaefer's playing is subtle, and repays attentive listening,  so it probably eludes some people.

[San Antone]

That's a misleading thing to say, there's more dynamic variation than a clavichord, but it's certainly more restrained the Edwin Fischer in the same music, for example. As far as your comment about touch goes, it's not uniform, within a phrase there's often quite a bit of liaison. I especially appreciate the way he balances the voices. I think Schaefer's playing is subtle, and repays attentive listening,  so it probably eludes some people.

  Yep it definitely eluded me.      There are plenty of others whose playing does not elude me, probably because it isn't subtle.   

[prémont]

Why use a piano if you aren't going to play it as a piano?

I didn't say that a piano should be used for this music. On the contrary I prefer the harpsichord. So the solution is, that pianists learn to play harpsichord, if they want to play music written for harpsichord. This is just logical.

Pianists should restrain themselves to play music written for piano.

[milk]

  Yep it definitely eluded me.      There are plenty of others whose playing does not elude me, probably because it isn't subtle.   

yeah, there's a fine line between subtle and boring. I find Demus to be subtle but still pianistic to a degree. I'll accept any kind of experiment on piano or any other instrument. But I don't know why Schafer is baroque except for him being non-pianistic. I don't hear interesting rubato. But, again, there's always another day to try again.

[milk]

I'm surprised at how fresh Kirkpatrick sounds to my ears. He uses a lot of the tools available to him on the clavichord. For 1969, if that's when it was, it sounds HIP. There's a lot of rubato here and also interesting dynamics appropriate for this instrument. It doesn't suffer from some of the "problems" one hears in recordings from the older generations.

[Mandryka]

I'm surprised at how fresh Kirkpatrick sounds to my ears. He uses a lot of the tools available to him on the clavichord. For 1969, if that's when it was, it sounds HIP. There's a lot of rubato here and also interesting dynamics appropriate for this instrument. It doesn't suffer from some of the "problems" one hears in recordings from the older generations.

Yes. It's much less stiff than you would expect. 

[prémont]

I'm surprised at how fresh Kirkpatrick sounds to my ears. He uses a lot of the tools available to him on the clavichord. For 1969, if that's when it was, it sounds HIP. There's a lot of rubato here and also interesting dynamics appropriate for this instrument. It doesn't suffer from some of the "problems" one hears in recordings from the older generations.

I suppose you think of his clavichord recording of book II, in which case I agree with you. On the other hand I find his clavichord recording of book I stiff and rushed.

He has also recorded both books on harpsichord for DG - as far as I know some years later than the clavichord recordings in the days of LP, but these recordings are very hard to find today, and I have never seen them transferred to CD. I have only heard book II, which IMO was almost unbearably stiff and lifeless.

[milk]

I suppose you think of his clavichord recording of book II, in which case I agree with you. On the other hand I find his clavichord recording of book I stiff and rushed.

He has also recorded both books on harpsichord for DG - as far as I know some years later than the clavichord recordings in the days of LP, but these recordings are very hard to find today, and I have never seen them transferred to CD. I have only heard book II, which IMO was almost unbearably stiff and lifeless.

Yes, I am listening to BKII today. That only. I think it's very good. Maybe I'll skip Bk I, I want to listen to other stuff anyway. I wish everybody would update their lists as the last decade has brought some good recordings on harpsichord, maybe less interesting ones on piano.

[milk]

Quick hits on WTCII:
Dina Ugorskaya is dark sometimes. Not bad. Maybe she gives in to temptation at times - to fiddle with dynamics. I guess I always think that about pianists. I mean I like her but she's not subtle. I like the darkness. I should have put all this in the past tense. I know she's deceased, sadly.
Listening to Andrew Rangell. He's not subtle either; he's even more extreme at times. He's extreme in many aspects of articulation. He does a lot to this music and I'm not sure what to think. Is it too much? My tastes keep evolving and I was just listening to his E minor prelude and fugue and thinking the prelude was kind of a hopped up mess. Though maybe his disjointed experimental style works out better in the fugue.
I actually want to like what he's doing. Maybe it would make for an interesting concert.

[Mandryka]

Yes, I am listening to BKII today. That only. I think it's very good. Maybe I'll skip Bk I, I want to listen to other stuff anyway. I wish everybody would update their lists as the last decade has brought some good recordings on harpsichord, maybe less interesting ones on piano.

Can you get hold of Tuma's WTC2 - I just am curious about whether you'll think Kirkpatrick's is better. Rubato is a strange thing in my experience, what seems intrusive on one day seems natural on another.

[prémont]

Can you get hold of Tuma's WTC2 - I just am curious about whether you'll think Kirkpatrick's is better.

What do you think yourself? I prefer Tuma's more relaxed style.

Rubato is a strange thing in my experience, what seems intrusive on one day seems natural on another.

Yes, often one doesn't know how one will react to some recording until one have heard it, even if one thinks one knows it well beforehand.

[Mandryka]

What do you think yourself? I prefer Tuma's more relaxed style.

I would need to listen to the Kirkpatrick again, but I can say that I had always found Tuma's rubato somehow pointless -- neither use nor ornament. Until about three weeks ago when I listened again and it all seemed very right and rather beautiful. So, go figure, as they say.

[staxomega]

Quick hits on WTCII:
Dina Ugorskaya is dark sometimes. Not bad. Maybe she gives in to temptation at times - to fiddle with dynamics. I guess I always think that about pianists. I mean I like her but she's not subtle. I like the darkness. I should have put all this in the past tense. I know she's deceased, sadly.

Yes that WTC overall comes off as having some darkness. I thought maybe I was being biased towards this knowing she had passed away at a young age, but I did some blind testing with several other sets that were new to me at the time and she near universally came out on top.

Listening to Andrew Rangell. He's not subtle either; he's even more extreme at times. He's extreme in many aspects of articulation. He does a lot to this music and I'm not sure what to think. Is it too much? My tastes keep evolving and I was just listening to his E minor prelude and fugue and thinking the prelude was kind of a hopped up mess. Though maybe his disjointed experimental style works out better in the fugue.
I actually want to like what he's doing. Maybe it would make for an interesting concert.

I didn't know Andrew Rangell recorded WTC. I posted either in the Bach on Piano or the Goldberg Variations thread that it was one of the most interesting Goldbergs I'd ever heard on piano, it's a wild interpretation and if I am remembering right he forgoes all repeats which also pleased me. His AoF was not interesting.

With so many praising Peter Hill I will give this a listen this week.

On rubato and WTC, I'm not sure if I'll ever get used to Ottavio Dantone