Classical Music Stereotypes

[12tone.]

Give them Nielsen's 4th or Mahler's 7th. That should take care of that.

Or Reich's 'Drumming'!

[Monsieur Croche]

Since I see that the discussion here has veered a little towards the merits of popular music, let me just give some personal opinions on this matter.

Initially, when I started out in classical music, I continued to purchase recordings of pop and rock music, but over time their appeal started to wane, until eventually one day I looked at my collection and thought to myself: "I spent so much money on this?". In fairness, though, I suspect that the best rock music etc. is not to be found on the charts and the mainstream media, just like the best classical music is nowhere like Il Divo or Josh Groban. (Ugh). I will therefore restrict my opinions to music that is "popular" in the truest sense of the word – namely, the mediocrities that get the most mainstream media coverage these days, and not to make generalizations regarding any particular genre.

Popular music is, in my opinion, banal, formulaic, and shallow. Perhaps the greatest sin it has committed is the de-sensitizing of its listeners from the subtleties and emotional content in music, and the crippling of their capacity to recognize greatness. This is why we have people who can not sense a beat without the aid of drums, and to whom every piece of music is either only "happy", "sad", or some other simplistic stock words. When I look back at my experience just a few years ago, I feel that my enjoyment of such popular music was a very superficial one: It is but delight in the familiar, the comfortable, the unchallenging. Practically nothing I heard ever made an impact right to the bottom of my heart, or inspire wonder in me – nothing made me think, "Genius!", "Masterpiece!", "How did he do that?", etc. Ultimately I think this is the root of the many stereotypes we have here: People who try to extend the insensitive method of appraisal applied to their own music to the classical genre.

Does this make me a snob? I certainly don't think so – I have never considered myself superior to others just because I listen to classical music and, conversely, the desire for superiority does not in any way motivate my liking for classical music. In fact, whenever I listen to works by the great masters (or even some of the not-so-great composers), I found so many things that are wonderful that I can't believe anyone would be drawn to classical music just because of its association with class, intellect, and whatnots. If there really are such people, then let it be known that I despise such an act. However, that is still infinitely better than those who make a vice out of everything that is intellectually / culturally ennobling – such an attitude is beneath contempt. Better to be a snob than a reverse-snob, I say!

You don't need to be wealthy to enjoy classical music, of course, but it helps. There seems to be more casual pop/rock listeners compared to casual classical listeners. The hallmark of a real classical music enthusiast is, in my opinion, a strong exploratory desire – be it for obscure composers, the complete works of a great composer, or different interpretations of the canonic masterpieces. This naturally translates into a fair bit of consumerism. On the flip side, classical concerts do tend to be cheaper than pop/rock concerts (over here at least).

[eyeresist]

In fairness, though, I suspect that the best rock music etc. is not to be found on the charts and the mainstream media, just like the best classical music is nowhere like Il Divo or Josh Groban. (Ugh). I will therefore restrict my opinions to music that is "popular" in the truest sense of the word – namely, the mediocrities that get the most mainstream media coverage these days, and not to make generalizations regarding any particular genre.

An aficionado of "pop" music knows that most stuff in the charts is garbage, just as an aficionado of "classical" music won't have Opera Babes in their collection, unless their mother gave it to them and so they can't throw it out. There's always been a market consisting of people who don't care about music and don't want to think about it, who buy on vague principles like popularity or appropriateness as background music. The music for this market tends to evaporate fairly quickly, while the good stuff, although it has less visibility, endures.

Popular music is, in my opinion, banal, formulaic, and shallow.

Like Mozart?

[Mozart]

All classical music listeners are smart. Thankfully some of the posters here have been brave enough to prove that awful stereotype false.

Also, that everyone who listens to classical music looks like this:

You mean you guys don't look like that?

[LVB_opus.125]

I don't hold this view.  I've heard plenty of classical music that I consider inferior to the better rock pieces.  Bottom line is that making statements like Marvin's constitutes stereotyping. 

But is the best of rock near the best of Classical? There is this website that is mostly dedicated to heavy metal, and even there there is recognition that Classical Music was far more artistically significant. I don't think that there can even be a debate here.

[Que]

Stereotypes I have encountered:

Classical music is:
- boring This is either just an image or caused by the inability to grasp the music...
- for quiet relaxation Very common mistake. How on earth can anybody think this?  Maybe because of all the "candle light" crap by the likes of Richard Clayderman?
- depressing Actually the closest to reality!    Classical music does (also) reflect the darker moods of the human mind, but so do other musical genres. And there is plenty more on offer!

Q

[quintett op.57]

Other than Bach and Handel, other Baroque music pretty much sound the same. Let's get real, the differences are second-order.

Is it an example of stereotype or your opinion? Or a joke?

[MN Dave]

You mean you guys don't look like that?

I think Don and Harry look like that. 

[Grazioso]

works by the great masters (or even some of the not-so-great composers), I found so many things that are wonderful that I can't believe anyone would be drawn to classical music just because of its association with class, intellect, and whatnots. If there really are such people, then let it be known that I despise such an act. However, that is still infinitely better than those who make a vice out of everything that is intellectually / culturally ennobling – such an attitude is beneath contempt. Better to be a snob than a reverse-snob, I say!

Yet the fact that classical music is associated with class, intellect, and education is a good thing. In our day of unthinking egalitarianism, it's salutary when something reminds people that some things are indeed superior, that some things are to be striven for. Likewise, the culture or appanages of classical music provide one of the few remaining refuges from our general culture of enforced mediocrity, proud ignorance, and crude tastes. Elitism may not be good, but elite things are.

Like Mozart?

I have to say that I find it hard to believe anyone who is either a careful listener or a serious classical music lover would call Mozart "banal, formulaic, and shallow." His style won't appeal to all, of course, but that has nothing to do with the depth and craftsmanship of his music. If that's how they perceive Mozart, how much more are they missing in the other composers they've listened to?

Classical music is:
- for quiet relaxation Very common mistake. How on earth can anybody think this?  Maybe because of all the "candle light" crap by the likes of Richard Clayderman?

How can anyone think that? Easily. Some of it does indeed sound like it's for quiet relaxation. It's not all barnstorming Mahler or percussive Stravinsky by any stretch. And there's nothing inherently wrong with gentle, calm, soothing music. But another part of it may be the way many people are exposed to classical music: my local public radio station--the only substantial traditional media outlet for classical music locally--usually just plays the most sedate, accessible, and short pieces it can, replete with announcers who speak in a soothing whisper. If this station is indicative of others, well....

[greg]

Since I see that the discussion here has veered a little towards the merits of popular music, let me just give some personal opinions on this matter.

Initially, when I started out in classical music, I continued to purchase recordings of pop and rock music, but over time their appeal started to wane, until eventually one day I looked at my collection and thought to myself: "I spent so much money on this?". In fairness, though, I suspect that the best rock music etc. is not to be found on the charts and the mainstream media, just like the best classical music is nowhere like Il Divo or Josh Groban. (Ugh). I will therefore restrict my opinions to music that is "popular" in the truest sense of the word – namely, the mediocrities that get the most mainstream media coverage these days, and not to make generalizations regarding any particular genre.

Popular music is, in my opinion, banal, formulaic, and shallow. Perhaps the greatest sin it has committed is the de-sensitizing of its listeners from the subtleties and emotional content in music, and the crippling of their capacity to recognize greatness. This is why we have people who can not sense a beat without the aid of drums, and to whom every piece of music is either only "happy", "sad", or some other simplistic stock words. When I look back at my experience just a few years ago, I feel that my enjoyment of such popular music was a very superficial one: It is but delight in the familiar, the comfortable, the unchallenging. Practically nothing I heard ever made an impact right to the bottom of my heart, or inspire wonder in me – nothing made me think, "Genius!", "Masterpiece!", "How did he do that?", etc. Ultimately I think this is the root of the many stereotypes we have here: People who try to extend the insensitive method of appraisal applied to their own music to the classical genre.

Does this make me a snob? I certainly don't think so – I have never considered myself superior to others just because I listen to classical music and, conversely, the desire for superiority does not in any way motivate my liking for classical music. In fact, whenever I listen to works by the great masters (or even some of the not-so-great composers), I found so many things that are wonderful that I can't believe anyone would be drawn to classical music just because of its association with class, intellect, and whatnots. If there really are such people, then let it be known that I despise such an act. However, that is still infinitely better than those who make a vice out of everything that is intellectually / culturally ennobling – such an attitude is beneath contempt. Better to be a snob than a reverse-snob, I say!

You don't need to be wealthy to enjoy classical music, of course, but it helps. There seems to be more casual pop/rock listeners compared to casual classical listeners. The hallmark of a real classical music enthusiast is, in my opinion, a strong exploratory desire – be it for obscure composers, the complete works of a great composer, or different interpretations of the canonic masterpieces. This naturally translates into a fair bit of consumerism. On the flip side, classical concerts do tend to be cheaper than pop/rock concerts (over here at least).

Love this post......
And you're right, the best rock music isn't the most popular. I started off liking music that wasn't exactly the most accessible for rock (i'm talking about instrumental rock here) and just found it more interesting. The other stuff that came on the radio never moved me, so I never listened/listen to the radio.

How can anyone think that? Easily. Some of it does indeed sound like it's for quiet relaxation. It's not all barnstorming Mahler or percussive Stravinsky by any stretch. And there's nothing inherently wrong with gentle, calm, soothing music. But another part of it may be the way many people are exposed to classical music: my local public radio station--the only substantial traditional media outlet for classical music locally--usually just plays the most sedate, accessible, and short pieces it can, replete with announcers who speak in a soothing whisper. If this station is indicative of others, well....

Mine, too...... 

- depressing Actually the closest to reality!    Classical music does (also) reflect the darker moods of the human mind, but so do other musical genres. And there is plenty more on offer!

Depressing music is the best! A lot of 20th century classical has the same type of spirit as death metal or doom metal, except more complex and interesting.

[Don]

But is the best of rock near the best of Classical?

Does it really make any difference?  These two types of music are so distinct from one another and serve different purposes.  Why compare them at all?

[Grazioso]

Does it really make any difference?  These two types of music are so distinct from one another and serve different purposes.  Why compare them at all?

I don't know... When I hear a typical short, punchy, formulaic Italianate Baroque allegro, it often makes me think "This is the rock music of the classical world." And because of frequent classical stylistic borrowings in heavy metal, the point is only further underlined to my ears. For Lieder, too, comparisons can be made to various types of pop songs. Naturally, once you start moving into large-scale chamber or orchestral works, similarities quickly vanish. Apples and oranges then, indeed.

[rappy]

- for quiet relaxation Very common mistake. How on earth can anybody think this?  Maybe because of all the "candle light" crap by the likes of Richard Clayderman?

Honestly, I know many people who say that they listen to Classical music, but only for relaxation. Some Mozart slow movements are fine, as well as Bach's famous Air. But if I play them a quick and lively movement, they say that it is disturbing music and it makes them nervous.
I just don't understand that, as most popular music is fast and loud and at least to ME sometimes very disturbing.

[Chaszz]

  Are we snobs?  Well I can only speak for myself.  Personally I believe that when compared to classical music,  pop and rock music are trash. If that makes me a snob, so be it!

marvin

Louis Armstrong recordings from the years 1924 -32 are the best examples of pop music as high art.

[marvinbrown]

Louis Armstrong recordings from the years 1924 -32 are the best examples of pop music as high art.

  Would Louis Armstring be called pop or jazz??

  marvin

[greg]

Honestly, I know many people who say that they listen to Classical music, but only for relaxation. Some Mozart slow movements are fine, as well as Bach's famous Air. But if I play them a quick and lively movement, they say that it is disturbing music and it makes them nervous.
I just don't understand that, as most popular music is fast and loud and at least to ME sometimes very disturbing.

i hate this...... it's either "pretty" or "annoying".

[Daverz]

The weirdest I've heard from an acquaintance was that "it's too loud".  That one kind of threw me for a bit, but I suppose he meant that the dynamic range is too wide.

[greg]

The weirdest I've heard from an acquaintance was that "it's too loud".  That one kind of threw me for a bit, but I suppose he meant that the dynamic range is too wide.

i just wish recordings wouldn't emphasize so much the dynamic range, at least so when you're listening in the car (with someone else who can be easily irritated) you don't have to change the volume all the time.

[samtrb]

Classical music? my grand-mother has not died yet 

[Kullervo]

i just wish recordings wouldn't emphasize so much the dynamic range, at least so when you're listening in the car (with someone else who can be easily irritated) you don't have to change the volume all the time.

There's an easy solution for that. Just reach over, open the passenger-side door, and tell them to "tuck and roll"!