The Unassuming Masterpiece

[Brian]

If you ask for opinions, don't be surprised when you get a few.

Words to live by, sir.

[PSmith08]

[...] Puts others off mentioning it except in an ironic way. To that extent, youare the reason that there seems to be little enthusiasm for it.

I didn't vote because I don't know how to quantify my opinion, "It's nice, like most Debussy, but I can't get too worked up over it, like most Debussy."

In any event, Eric's all-consuming passion for Debussy is enough to make me consider enjoying that composer in a totally non-ironic way. Now, my listening is still tinged with irony, but I feel almost like almost feeling bad about it.

[eyeresist]

I didn't vote because I don't know how to quantify my opinion, "It's nice, like most Debussy, but I can't get too worked up over it, like most Debussy."

In any event, Eric's all-consuming passion for Debussy is enough to make me consider enjoying that composer in a totally non-ironic way. Now, my listening is still tinged with irony, but I feel almost like almost feeling bad about it.

Totally LOL!

[Operahaven]

It is operahaven's former nom de guerre.

(we've been dealing with his eccentricities for a long, long time   )

Am I that eccentric, Gurn ?

[PSmith08]

Am I that eccentric, Gurn ?

If you have to ask...

[Monsieur Croche]

Your explanation of "sentimental" and "pretentious" is a bit of a cheap shot, eyeresist. Such literary descriptions are tangential to the music at best, and what do you make of Debussy's works where these descriptions are absent, like the Etudes? (Or they are some of the piano pieces you like?) You have not explained "slop" either.

(There is, of course, no need for you to justify your opinion to me, but I'm interested in knowing where you're coming from).

Am I that eccentric, Gurn ?

Operahaven, I am still waiting for you to post an enlightening comment on the Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun. Till then, I'm afraid I have to say that you are eccentric – One has to be in order to create so many threads revolving around the same piece of music.

[PSmith08]

Operahaven, I am still waiting for you to post an enlightening comment on the Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun. Till then, I'm afraid I have to say that you are eccentric – One has to be in order to create so many threads revolving around the same piece of music.

In Eric's...er..."defense," I don't think Afternoon of a Faun is his specific idée fixe. No, he'd have to get busy to get up to Pelléas-level obsession.

[eyeresist]

Your explanation of "sentimental" and "pretentious" is a bit of a cheap shot, eyeresist. Such literary descriptions are tangential to the music at best, and what do you make of Debussy's works where these descriptions are absent, like the Etudes? (Or they are some of the piano pieces you like?) You have not explained "slop" either.

(There is, of course, no need for you to justify your opinion to me, but I'm interested in knowing where you're coming from).

I suppose my explanation did lack thoroughness, though I thought it did encapsulate my feelings. I find Debussy's harmonies, melodies, rhetoric, all to be sentimental, that is, concerned with arousing emotion they have not earned. I think the pretentiousness of the program is fully exposed in the music! Of course, this is all subjective. (Also based on thankfully distant memories of the last time I was subject to the little faun.)

Regarding my "pseudo-classical kitsch" snipe, my perspective is that by the late 19th century, original classical and folk archetypes had degenerated into a popular pseudo-classical airy-fairyness: increased popularity of fairyland stories, not only in children's literature but also in stuff like Rosetti's influential "Goblin Market" poem and the stories of Lord Dunsaney, growing popularity of the pre-Raphaelites, the Aesthetic movement (Oscar Wilde et al.), the rise of Theosophy, and fairy sightings (the famous Cottingley hoax). These phenomena produced a depressing culture of middlebrow kitsch, of which, to me, Afternoon of a Faun is a musical example.

I haven't listened to the piano music for a while (I have Images and Children's Corner played by Michelangelini, IIRC). I suspect that, with its limited palette and percussive nature, the piano would have had a disciplining effect on Debussy, or at least made him more palatable to my ears.

[DavidRoss]

More intellectualism!  You're a fount of mirth today, dude!  And I appreciate the frequent qualifications admitting the subjectivity of your views--we already have enough cranks around here who think their limited perspective should define reality for the rest of us!  If you're interested, I suggest that listening to Debussy's Preludes for piano might dispel your belief that he's one of the "airy-fairies," but if he's not your cuppa then so be it!

[jochanaan]

...I find Debussy's harmonies, melodies, rhetoric, all to be sentimental, that is, concerned with arousing emotion they have not earned...

How do you know they didn't earn it?

Regarding my "pseudo-classical kitsch" snipe, my perspective is that by the late 19th century, original classical and folk archetypes had degenerated into a popular pseudo-classical airy-fairyness: increased popularity of fairyland stories, not only in children's literature but also in stuff like Rosetti's influential "Goblin Market" poem and the stories of Lord Dunsaney, growing popularity of the pre-Raphaelites, the Aesthetic movement (Oscar Wilde et al.), the rise of Theosophy, and fairy sightings (the famous Cottingley hoax). These phenomena produced a depressing culture of middlebrow kitsch, of which, to me, Afternoon of a Faun is a musical example.

I wonder what the Pre-Raphaelites would make of our current obsession with swords, sorcery, and space operas...

[DavidRoss]

How do you know they didn't earn it?

He's just defining sentimentality--a term often misused--so that we know what he's talking about when claiming that, to him, Debussy's music seems sentimental.

I wonder what the Pre-Raphaelites would make of our current obsession with swords, sorcery, and space operas...

Nothing wrong with the pre-Raphaelites, or with the Arts & Crafts movement to which they were allied.  Though they might have had (and still have!) appeal to middle-brow lovers of kitsch, they themselves were neither.

[(poco) Sforzando]

We already have enough cranks around here who think their limited perspective should define reality for the rest of us!

Care to name names? 

[Monsieur Croche]

Thank you for clarifying your opinion, eyeresist. These things are indeed subjective, and I still maintain that, according to my subjective opinion, there is nothing sentimental or kitschy in the Prelude to the Afternoon of Faun.

I find the remark you made about Debussy's piano music to be revealing: No surprise that you should dislike his music, when your tastes run exactly contrary to his aesthetic principles! Debussy endeavored to make the piano a 'hammerless' instrument, and once famously remarked that music should consist of 'colours and rhythmicized time'. The inherent limitations of the piano did pose some difficulties to Debussy, such that he took a longer time to find his own personal voice when composing for this instrument. Indeed, even though the 1894 Faun is widely considered to be his first mature work, it was only in 1903, with Estampes, that Debussy managed to break new ground in piano literature, even though Pour le Piano comes close. (The Suite Bergamasque doesn't count - it's revised in 1905). If you are interested in challenging your long-standing opinion on Debussy, then I second David's recommendation of the Preludes - they are more 'modern' and less explicitly pictorial than the Images, despite their descriptive titles. As far as performances go, Michelangeli's interpretation is precisely the type that would make people like you hate Debussy, since it brings out much of the colouristic possibilities in the music. (You can read my full review here). You may want to try Alexis Weissenberg's performance on DG, which has more forward momentum than colour, as well as more sharply accentuated rhythms, which may cause the works to sound more 'percussive'... But no, he didn't record the Preludes.

[helios]

10 - absolutely adore it... even after all these years it never fails to bring a smile to my face.  My favourite tune for a warm summer afternoon or evening.

Due to its popularity, I'm not surprised that many on here are indifferent to it..... but for 8 people to give it 1??? 

[greg]

wasn't 1 "indifference?"

[12tone.]

Couperin = Masterpiece Thhhh-e,ah,tah!

[knight66]

Thhhh-e,ah,tah!

Are you writing in tongues?

Mike

[karlhenning]

He says it, Operahaven, because that's the way he feels, or so I assume.  If you ask for opinions, don't be surprised when you get a few.

It's a fair cop! 

[knight66]

A blond policeman! Is that also an exquisite thing?

Mike

[karlhenning]

A blond policeman! Is that also an exquisite thing?

Does everyone stare the way I do?