HIP Poll

[mn dave]

 

[ChamberNut]

I'm in the middle on this one.  Half the time, I don't even know if it is HIP or not HIP?  Apparently my Harnoncourt set of Beethoven symphonies is HIP, but played on modern instruments, so is it really HIP then? 

[Harry]

I care a lot, obviously!

[Opus106]

I have only one HIP recording till now, but I want more. 

I'm in the middle on this one.  Half the time, I don't even know if it is HIP or not HIP?  Apparently my Harnoncourt set of Beethoven symphonies is HIP, but played on modern instruments, so is it really HIP then? 

Period (playing) practice: Yes
Period instruments: No
Quasi-HIP. 

[mn dave]

...played on modern instruments...

My preference. After all, wouldn't the composer want the music played on the best possible instrument?

[Keemun]

My preference. After all, wouldn't the composer want the music played on the best possible instrument?

I used to feel that way, but then I discovered how much better (most) HIP Bach sounds (to my ears).*  That opened the door to other HIP performances (Beethoven, Vivaldi, etc.)  I voted "I care a lot", but really my caring decreases as the music become more recent.  I care much more for the Baroque period than I do for the Romantic period, with the Classical period falling somewhere in between.  In fact, while I've not heard HIP Bruckner, I suspect that I wouldn't care much for it.   

* I just remembered that I don't care much for HIP Cello Suites, so I cannot say that I like all HIP Bach better.

[mn dave]

I used to feel that way, but then I discovered how much better HIP Bach sounds (to my ears).

In what ways?

[Opus106]

I voted "I care a lot", but really my caring decreases as the music become more recent.  I care much more for the Baroque period than I do for the Romantic period, with the Classical period falling somewhere in between.  In fact, while I've not heard HIP Bruckner, I suspect that I wouldn't care much for it.   

Yeah, what he said.

[FideLeo]

In what ways?

In all the imaginable ways (for the music I mean) 

[mn dave]

In all the imaginable ways (for the music I mean) 

Answer better.

[FideLeo]

Answer better.

Good enough for me!!   

I mean, if you actually know the instruments well enough, you wouldn't think a better
answer is needed after all.  Most antagonists of HIP don't actually know much or have
much experience with the thing at all.  Either this, or their ideas of it are grossly out of date.
It is perfectly fine for one to prefer modern instruments for any music, but to say newer
is better seems unjustifiable to me on aesthetic grounds alone.   One shouldn't forget that,
historically, composers usually wrote music to suit the media they knew -- not something
they imagined might exist one day in the future.  Before the 19th century, there was even the
question of whether composers speculated about future instruments at all.

[mn dave]

Good enough for me!!   

I mean, if you actually know the instruments well enough, you wouldn't think a better
answer is needed after all.  Most antagonists of HIP don't actually know much or have
much experience with the thing at all.  Either this, or their ideas of it are grossly out of date.
It is perfectly fine for one to prefer modern instruments for any music, but to say newer
is better seems unjustifiable to me on aesthetic grounds alone.   One shouldn't forget that,
historically, composers usually wrote music to suit the media they knew -- not something
they imagined might exist one day in the future.  Before the 19th century, there was even the
question of whether composers speculated about future instruments at all.

I don't think knowing the instruments well enough affects my query at all. I've heard these older instruments and wonder why the strict preference? To me many of them sound weaker and flimsier than more modern instruments. For instance, I prefer the bolder, more dynamic and powerful sound of a modern piano to a harpsichord or fortepiano, though I listen to and can enjoy all three of these instruments. Just because Bach didn't know about the modern piano, why should we not play his music on it?

Or should I be wearing a powdered wig while listening to baroque music?

[springrite]

HIP could mean the work is played on period instruments or, it could mean it is played on modern instruments but played in a period style. So, even the terms means different things and in the latter case, what is period style for one ear is entirely different for another.

What are the alternatives?

Historically Misinformed Performances?
Historically Ambivalent Performances?

[Don]

I don't think knowing the instruments well enough affects my query at all. I've heard these older instruments and wonder why the strict preference? To me many of them sound weaker and flimsier than more modern instruments. For instance, I prefer the bolder, more dynamic and powerful sound of a modern piano to a harpsichord or fortepiano, though I listen to and can enjoy all three of these instruments. Just because Bach didn't know about the modern piano, why should we not play his music on it?

I don't think that "should" is a consideration here - whatever turns you on.  I love Bach on modern piano, also on harpsichord, clavichord, fortepiano, tangent piano, etc.  

As for what instrument is "best", I consider that an aesthetic issue and don't at all think that the modern piano is superior to the keyboard instruments during Bach's lifetime (for Bach's music).

[Don]

Instruments are just tools afterall, it's who's behind them that truly makes all the difference ultimately.

Exactly.

[prémont]

After all, wouldn't the composer want the music played on the best possible instrument?

What is the best possible instrument, and why??

[mn dave]

Some have stated that these old instruments are preferred in the music of their era. So, I'm trying to get to the bottom of that. They sound "better" to strict HIPsters, but how so?

[mn dave]

What is the best possible instrument, and why??

For what?

[jochanaan]

Some have stated that these old instruments are preferred in the music of their era. So, I'm trying to get to the bottom of that. They sound "better" to strict HIPsters, but how so?

Their very lightness and lack of tonal depth makes a big difference.  Even some modern-instrument enthusiasts complain occasionally about Mozart or Haydn being "too heavy" in modern-instrument recordings.  Also the numeric balance of the ensembles in HIP recordings (even those played on modern instruments) ensures that you hear every voice clearly, not just the strings with a little woodwind color.  (Full disclosure: I'm a woodwind player and a little partial to my own instruments. )

And HIPness doesn't preclude boldness and passion.  Listen to such groups as Ensemble 415, Europa Galante, and the Hanover Band for passionate HIP playing--almost Mahlerian in dynamics and tempo nuances. HIP groups even seem to be bringing back the lost art of improvisation!

[mn dave]

Their very lightness and lack of tonal depth makes a big difference.  Even some modern-instrument enthusiasts complain occasionally about Mozart or Haydn being "too heavy" in modern-instrument recordings.  Also the numeric balance of the ensembles in HIP recordings (even those played on modern instruments) ensures that you hear every voice clearly, not just the strings with a little woodwind color.  (Full disclosure: I'm a woodwind player and a little partial to my own instruments. )

And HIPness doesn't preclude boldness and passion.  Listen to such groups as Ensemble 415, Europa Galante, and the Hanover Band for passionate HIP playing--almost Mahlerian in dynamics and tempo nuances. HIP groups even seem to be bringing back the lost art of improvisation!

Well done. Thanks.