The Magic of the Poles

[mahler10th]

Lutoslawski - Symphony Number Three.

If you haven't enjoyed a Pole in your head  , try that for a start.  I really mean it, there are things going on in that Symphony alone which will make you wobble in your own reality.  I myself have been wobbling since 1993 when I first heard it.  I think it must have been composed as some kind of transportation device, taking you to....

[mn dave]

I like the way you talk about music, John.

[lukeottevanger]

"starting to become" is not the same as "is" (But I have to admit - I really have trouble keeping up with what is happening over there. 0:))

Come back and join in again - we're at the beginning of a whole new set of pieces at last, the previous long session at last being completed a couple of days ago. Should be easy to slot back in.

BTW, has anyone seen Sean lately (after all, he was the one who started it all)?

No, but if we stick around he'll be bound to turn up eventually.

[Maciek]

Should be easy to slot back in.

Yes, but will people be saying nice things about me over there? 0:)

[lukeottevanger]

Not if you don't turn up soon. Quite the opposite 

[Maciek]

I'd better steer clear off. Just to be on the safe side...

[Maciek]

I just realized I must have first heard Lutoslawski's 3rd around 1993 too. First Lutoslawski piece that I ever listened to (consciously). Never ceases to amaze. (Sorry, mahler10th, I don't have your way with words - you'll have to settle for what I'm giving. 0:))

[Dundonnell]

And here I was, thinking you were starting a thread about the various "Antarctic" symphonies in history...

(Or was I, really? )

Vaughan Williams' Sinfonia Antartica AND the 'Antarctic Symphony"(his Eighth Symphony) by Sir Peter Maxwell Davies.

Just for the record (May be more?)

[Dundonnell]

I know that there was a thread last year about Panufnik and that he got some pretty mixed comments from members(including Maciek).
I do think that he ought to be counted as a Polish composer despite living in Britain from 1954.

I happen to like a lot of Panufnik's music-including the (perhaps) less popular later works. His most accessible and popular symphony is the Sinfonia Sacra(No.3) and I know that the Sinfonia di Sfere(No.5) and the Sinfonia Mistica(No.6) can be 'tough nuts' to crack. I have never hear the Metasinfonia(No.7) for organ, timpani and strings but I do really like the Sinfonia di Speranza(No.9) which is a remarkably powerful and impressive work.

In a recent interview Antoni Wit, the fine conductor of the Warsaw Philharmonic Orchestra, was quoted as saying that he was discussing a Panufnik series with Naxos(continuing his great work for Lutoslawski and Penderecki). I hope that such a series does come to fruition. Panufnik is not an easy composer-not because his idiom is necessarily difficult-but because of the complex construction of the symphonies, frequently on mathematical principles. He does, I think, deserve more exposure and many of the shorter, more obviously Polish works are most moving.

[mahler10th]

Thanks Dundonnell.  Does this mean that Panufnik has mathematical formulae which he uses to synchronise our brains into hypnotic trance states which reveal unknown wonders and truths to us in a way which we do not yet understand like all the other Magic Poles do?  If so, I'll buy some today!!
I'm away to 'sample' Panufnik now...

[Maciek]

Ha! I completely forgot that thread ever existed (here it is)!

Well, Guido rightly chastised me for being unkind then. Actually, before Gorecki's astounding break, Panufnik was usually enumerated, in one breath, together with Lutoslawski and Penderecki - it was the trio of "great second-half-of-the-20th-century Polish composers". Today Gorecki seems to have taken Panufnik's place in that set but it's obvious that all for of them are great (and very different) musical individualities. (With Lutoslawski quietly looming above the others.) Just so you don't think I completely changed my mind: I still do feel that Panufnik went a bit too far in stripping down his musical language...

[Side note: actually, in that context the word "great" does not necessarily imply musical quality; rather, it seems to simply mean "those who managed to make some sort of career abroad". At a certain point, Gorecki ousted Panufnik in that category.]

[techniquest]

I think Goreckis career was plucked out of obscurity by Classic FM not long after its launch in the early '90s. Quite why his 3rd Symphony (Zinman / Upshaw) succeeded I don't know, but the album was destined to be No.1 in the classical chart for months on end, and if it was an experiment to see how influencial a commercial classical station could be in the UK, then it certainly worked. Less successful by a long way was the 'Beatus Vir' follow-up.
Personally, I far prefer his 2nd symphony which, after bashing the brain to bits in the first part, strokes it gently and warmly in the second. It truly is magical.

[Maciek]

I think relative obscurity would be more accurate. I suppose Gorecki's status before that Upshaw recording was comparable to today's status of... I don't know, say Kotonski. Widely known at home and admired by some/many, but practically non-existent abroad.

[Dundonnell]

I think relative obscurity would be more accurate. I suppose Gorecki's status before that Upshaw recording was comparable to today's status of... I don't know, say Kotonski. Widely known at home and admired by some/many, but practically non-existent abroad.

What has Gorecki composed recently-ie within, say, the last ten years or so?

[Maciek]

I think his most recent piece is the 3rd String Quartet, premiered by the Kronos Quartet here in 2005 and now available on CD.

Some other pieces written (or at least premiered) after 1998:

Salve sidus Polonorum op. 72 for choir, 2 pianos, organ and percussion. A Polish Radio CD was available for a very short time but went out of print.

Lobgesang for choir and (tubular?) bells

Kurpie songs for choir

several other pieces for choir and some miniatures for violin(s).

Also, he's made a string orchestra arrangement of the "quasi una fantasia" SQ.

There may be more - his pieces often wait a long while before being first performed.

[mn dave]

In honor of magic poles everywhere, I have changed my forum name.  0:)

[bhodges]

...and I know that the Sinfonia di Sfere(No.5) and the Sinfonia Mistica(No.6) can be 'tough nuts' to crack.

I just heard No. 5 for the first time about two weeks ago, in its U.S. premiere performance by Leon Botstein and the American Symphony Orchestra, and thought it was well worth hearing (and repeating).  Among other things, it has a very prominent and difficult piano part (sort of like the use of the instrument in say, Petrouchka).

In honor of magic poles everywhere, I have changed my forum name.  0:)

--Bruce

[Sergeant Rock]

Lutoslawski - Symphony Number Three.

If you haven't enjoyed a Pole in your head  , try that for a start.

Uhhhh...okay.    I'll try it. I just checked my list and discovered I do own a Lutoslawski Third (wasn't sure). I don't believe I ever listened to it. Does it make good dinner background music?    Probably not. Okay, I'll play it right after dinner.

Grill Sergeant Rock, putting on his apron, picking up his tongs, and heading to the grill

P.S.  And now I know why Dave changed his name 

[Maciek]

Sarge, does that imply you've never enjoyed a Pole in your head?

[Sergeant Rock]

Sarge, does that imply you've never enjoyed a Pole in your head?

I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that it might incriminate me.

I've just had my brain mismanaged though, listening to this



and I actually understand what Mahler10 means now.

Sarge