The Significance of Piano as a Musical Instrument in the Classical Period

[bach_ko]

As i know, the pianoforte was developing during classical period, it allows performer to do many things thus it stands out as a popular keyboard instrument, the musical genre of piano is expanded because many composers started to focus on piano repertoires (not necessary solo, but also chamber works and concertos)

May i know how the pianoforte has been developed from baroque to classical period? apart from the evolution of the mechanism, why is the piano became more and more popular in 18th century? how does this relate to the growing importance of the classical keyboard concertos as apublic musical genre? what significant role did the piano play for composers who compose classical piano concerto? anyone could reply me?

[M forever]

what significant role did the piano play for composers who compose classical piano concerto?

Well, apparently, a significant enough role for them to write concertos for the instrument.


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offensive remark has been removed

[greg]

Sorry, I stole his question medication. Haven't been asking too many questions for the last few days, which is good since it hardly ever leads to any clear answers, or any answers at all.
You can have some back, bach_ko, but we have to share. You can have some bach_ko, but we have to share. We have to share. Share share. Share back. Share bach_ko. Back bach_ko. Share.

Oh, crap! My Phillip Glass syndrome is kicking in now

apart from the evolution of the mechanism, why is the piano became more and more popular in 18th century?

cuz it sounds a hell of a lot better than the harpsichord

[bach_ko]

i think the musical genre of piano has expanded is because of the evolution of piano.. here are the points

the development of piano:
1. Technological aspect:
-Dynamic range is wider
-Note range
-Development of mechanism – the hammer will be released after plucking the string while the leather / feather of harpsichord would not.
-Improvement of tone – note can be sustained longer, able to produce variety of tone colour. (more sensitive)
-Pedaling is invented

2. Economical aspect:
-The emergence of upright piano
-The instrument is getting cheaper, almost everyone could afford to get one.

3. Pedagogy:
-Piano provide wider note range, anything will be able to do on piano.
-Piano is a more "concrete" musical instrument as we can 'see' all the single notes (visual), it gives clearer explanation in teaching theory and aural.
-To assist musician doing analysis – orchestral score is being transcribed into piano, easier to study.

4. Musical aspect:
-It replaces orchestra as an accompaniment (performance practice)
-Composition
-The musical genre of piano expanded, composer started to write more sonata and concerto, it gets more people to learn it therefore piano stand out as an important instrument. At the past, keyboard instrument mostly worked as part of the basso continuo
-More solo pieces were written for entertainment use, to please the audience.

*piano is more popularly used, piano learner was increased
*It produces richer texture and harmony, it stands out as a solo instrument without accompaniment
*tone quality is totally diferent from orchestral instrument, onctrast can be successfuly made in a concerto piece. for instance, in a piano concerto, the piano solo would not being doubled by the orchestral member (there is only one piano, whereas a clarinet concerto, clarinet is doubled by the the clarinets in wind ensemble.
*Able to compete with orchestra due to the instrument;s volume, wider range of notes, display higher technical difficulties, it allows performer to do more things.



but what significant role did the piano play for composers who composed classical piano concerto? does anyone know?

[M forever]

but what significant role did the piano play for composers who composed classical piano concerto? does anyone know?

Well, apparently, a significant enough role for them to write concertos for the instrument.

Because without the piano, they couldn't have written piano concertos.


You haven't answered my former question:

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offensive remark has been removed

[jochanaan]

Here is a good place to start.  In addition to Wikipedia's information, I can say that, although the pianoforte was invented in 1704, it took a long time for musicians to start playing it and writing for it.  Even in Mozart's time, the piano had not quite replaced the harpsichord or the clavichord as the preferred keyboard instrument for home and concert use; but by the end of the 18th century, it was clearly in ascendance, and by mid-19th century it was nearly universal in Europe and northern North America.

[greg]

but what significant role did the piano play for composers who composed classical piano concerto? does anyone know?

Hmmmmmmm it's really a mystery- i mean, why didn't they compose their piano concertos on a bassoon? It's much easier to carry around. 

[jochanaan]

Hmmmmmmm it's really a mystery- i mean, why didn't they compose their piano concertos on a bassoon? It's much easier to carry around. 

They probably didn't like dealing with double reeds.  Or double reed players.

[greg]

They probably didn't like dealing with double reeds.  Or double reed players.

That must be it!

[Ten thumbs]

The piano also helped to make orchestral works more well known as it was possible to play, or have played, transcriptions in the home. Liszt was aware of this and did much to promote contemporary music, including Beethoven's symphonies and Schubert songs.

[knight66]

The keyboard has often, though not invariably, been used by composers when working out their pieces. They did this whether or not the pieces had a keyboard in them.

Once the Pianoforte was developed those who composed in this way would have been amongst the first to understand that the instrument could be pitted against larger and more dense orchestral sounds. This would have been like being given more colours to paint with and more methods of displaying the results.

Earlier keyboards have their supporters, but the modern piano produces more varied sounds and volumes than any earlier keyboard.

Mike

[greg]

The keyboard has often, though not invariably, been used by composers when working out their pieces. They did this whether or not the pieces had a keyboard in them.

Once the Pianoforte was developed those who composed in this way would have been amongst the first to understand that the instrument could be pitted against larger and more dense orchestral sounds. This would have been like being given more colours to paint with and more methods of displaying the results.

Earlier keyboards have their supporters, but the modern piano produces more varied sounds and volumes than any earlier keyboard.

Mike

Just copy and paste this onto your report, bach_ko, and you'll get an A! 

[Monsieur Croche]

anything will be able to do on piano.

Anything?

-It replaces orchestra as an accompaniment (performance practice)
-The musical genre of piano expanded, composer started to write more sonata and concerto, it gets more people to learn it therefore piano stand out as an important instrument. At the past, keyboard instrument mostly worked as part of the basso continuo

No, it doesn't. It is more reasonable to assert that the piano replaces the basso continuo. In any case, the continuo is really a rather arbitrary group of instruments: even though there may sometimes be 'backings' from other low-pitched instruments, at other times the keyboard is the continuo. Perhaps in the Classical period the keyboard develops from a mere accompaniment to a more equal partner in the instrumental sonatas, but this may not be attributed to the development of the piano alone, since we can see this sort of partnership in, say, Bach's Violin Sonatas.

the piano solo would not being doubled by the orchestral member (there is only one piano, whereas a clarinet concerto, clarinet is doubled by the the clarinets in wind ensemble.

What is the extent of this doubling?

it allows performer to do more things.

What are these 'more things'? Can you elaborate?

but what significant role did the piano play for composers who composed classical piano concerto? does anyone know?

This question, as well as many others in your opening post, is not very intelligently phrased, so you shouldn't be surprised to get the responses that you did. I presume you wanted to know how writing for the piano in the concertante role is different from writing for other instruments, in which case the answer is already found in your own posts; you just have to think harder. I advise you to conduct some research first, get your facts and evidences right, organize your ideas, and produce a respectable 'first draft' before posting here. The process would enable you to formulate more focused and well-defined (as well as better-phrased!) questions which may well spark some interesting discussion. As it stands, your preliminary ideas didn't exactly give us much to work with. It won't hurt your cause either to take some time to introduce yourselves here and make some contributions to the forum.

Have a good day, bach_ko.

[jochanaan]

...but what significant role did the piano play for composers who composed classical piano concerto? does anyone know?

It took a long time for the classical piano concerto to develop.  Bach, of course, wrote Brandenburg #5, and wrote and arranged many concertos for one or more harpsichords, and he can be said to have started the tradition after a fashion.  Haydn wrote some piano concertos (however, scholars doubt the authenticity of several of these) but they are not considered his best and most characteristic works.

It was (mostly) Mozart who developed the piano concerto into a major art form.  From what I've read, he wrote many of his concertos for his own concerts, so there was a fame-and-fortune motive.  Also, his emphasis on the piano was a way of declaring independence from his father Leopold Mozart, one of the greatest violinists of the 18th century, who wanted his brilliant son to "continue the family tradition."  So Mozart blazed the trail for composer/pianists like Clementi, Hummel, Weber and that "madman" Beethoven to follow.   (This is an oversimplification, of course.  I'm sure many other composers before Mozart also composed piano concertos; but it's Mozart whose concertos first wormed their way into the music world's common consciousness.)

[Dancing Divertimentian]

This question, as well as many others in your opening post, is not very intelligently phrased, so you shouldn't be surprised to get the responses that you did. I presume you wanted to know how writing for the piano in the concertante role is different from writing for other instruments, in which case the answer is already found in your own posts; you just have to think harder. Overall, your points hardly match my expectations of an advanced musicology student, and your tendency towards repetition and stating the obvious did nothing to conceal the poverty of your ideas. I advise you to conduct some research first, get your facts and evidences right, organize your ideas, and actually produce something that could respectably be called a 'first draft' before posting here. The process would enable you to formulate more focused and well-defined questions which may well spark some interesting discussion. As it stands, your half-baked preliminary ideas gave us hardly anything to work with.

May I also point out (at the risk of committing the same mistake you did) that this is a forum, not a public information counter; you would, I imagine, find a more heartening response to your queries if you bothered to waste some time making some meaningful contributions here. Head over to the Introductions thread and tell us a thing or two about yourself.

Have a good day, bach_ko.

Mind, is really necessary to lecture? And to ridicule? Who set you up as GMG arbiter?

The way I read it Mr. bach_ko is not a native English speaker and did his best to phrase his queries in a manner that would be best understood on a forum dominated by English speaking members (and those for whom English is a second/third/fourth language).

No harm in that. It's a PUBLIC forum.

And as someone with less than 150 posts, you, yourself, are in no position to be dishing out lessons in GMG etiquette. Ditto even if you had 63,000 posts...

[Monsieur Croche]

All right, all right, I'm sorry if I came across as being an insufferable lecturer. It was just an impulsive, knee-jerk response, and I got a little carried away. We are all guilty of that sometimes. I have edited my post to make it sound more friendly, but my advice stands: If M. bach_ko would come here well-armed with his facts and arguments, he would be able to get more out of this thread. And I have no intention to ridicule, I assure you; the questions I posed to him were simply intended to get him thinking. For instance, he keeps saying that the piano allows performer to do 'more things', since post one, but did not explicitly say what these 'more things' are. Some of the answers to this is scattered in his point, and by pointing this out I am helping him to organize as well. Everything I said was for the benefits of M. bach_ko, and not to fan my ego, but I suppose you are right - I was being a little too harsh. Hopefully I didn't scare him away from this board?

Thank you very much for the lesson in forum etiquette. I will definitely bear it in mind from now on.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

All right, all right, I'm sorry if I came across as being an insufferable lecturer. It was just an impulsive, knee-jerk response, and I got a little carried away. We are all guilty of that sometimes.

Guilty, myself!

[zamyrabyrd]

The "Concerto Grosso" in the Baroque had a small group of instruments (concertino) alternating with a larger group (ripieno) although at the same time solo concertos were written for violin by Vivaldi, for instance. The small tinny tone of the earliest pianofortes or clavichords were no match for an orchestra, so its development was definitely a factor in separating the keyboard from the continuo and becoming an independent figure in its own right. The modern piano as we know it goes back to the 1820's use of iron frame that permitted much more tension on the strings, making it a worthy competitor to the orchestra.

Unlike the Baroque where homogenity of expression (or affekt) was the guiding principle, the Classic era emphasized differences in themes, tone color, etc. So it is no surprise that the solo concerto got off the ground with Mozart and Beethoven.

Later on, I feel Romantic opera had something to do with the quality of a heroic soloist pitted against the forces of an orchestra, up to and including Rachmaninoff.

[jochanaan]

...The small tinny tone of the earliest pianofortes or clavichords were no match for an orchestra...

Hmmm...My first reaction was "not for a MODERN orchestra"--but maybe you've got something there.  I was thinking more about harpsichords than pianofortes or clavichords.  (Clavichords were considered a "private" instrument, something musicians played strictly for their own edification without an audience, sort of the 18th-century equivalent of music on headphones.)  But it's also true that orchestras were much smaller then.  Even an early pianoforte would be a good match for five strings, especially with gut strings and the shorter necks that were in use then.  (Most of the 17th- and 18th-century violins, violas, and cellos in existence now had their necks replaced sometime in the 19th century.)  I suspect that one of the prime reasons for technological innovations for the piano in the 19th century was the increase in the size of orchestras that accompanied concertos; pianos needed a much bigger sound to compete.