Pianists

[mn dave]

Yeah, I got those as well. I enjoyed them the first time through, but I haven't gone back to them yet.   

Well, at least you enjoyed them. I guess I done good then.

[ezodisy]

2 10-CD sets from Documents. Hell, if he didn't record that much, then that should be the bulk of it, right?

$45 

I would suggest you cancel them unless you don't care for piano tone at all. Try the BBC Legends 3CD set, it contains a range of recordings from the late '50s to the '80s.

[mn dave]

I would suggest you cancel them unless you don't care for piano tone at all. Try the BBC Legends 3CD set, it contains a range of recordings from the late '50s to the '80s.

Is the sound really that bad? They received high ratings (on Amazon anyway).

Thanks for the recommendation.

[ezodisy]

Is the sound really that bad? They received high ratings (on Amazon anyway).

Thanks for the recommendation.

I haven't heard them, my opinion is based on other sets that I picked up on Documents. If you buy it chances are you'll end up with the same reaction as Howard (hasn't gone back to them).

[ezodisy]

The basic point is that if you care about piano music those big sets are just not the way to go as you get ripped off by crap remastering which screws up the piano sound. I would have thought that pretty obvious.

[mn dave]

The basic point is that if you care about piano music those big sets are just not the way to go as you get ripped off by crap remastering which screws up the piano sound. I would have thought that pretty obvious.

Does Documents bother to remaster? I thought they just re-release recordings inexpensively.

...Although I did buy a Chopin box from them that sounded like crap. 

[ezodisy]

I don't know the technicalities Dave. My experience was similar to Urania and Iron Needle -- heavily filtered. Sometimes it makes the piano sound like it's under water. With a pianist like Michelangeli who had more tonal colour than possibly any other pianist, the Document set is just a waste of time honestly.

[mn dave]

I don't know the technicalities Dave. My experience was similar to Urania and Iron Needle -- heavily filtered. Sometimes it makes the piano sound like it's under water. With a pianist like Michelangeli who had more tonal colour than possibly any other pianist, the Document set is just a waste of time honestly.

Okay. Thanks for the warning.

[jochanaan]

see bold - that is one way to understand it. But as a performer yourself, couldn't you also understand it by saying that it really doesn't matter what an audience wants?

That's a valid viewpoint--just one I happen to disagree with.  Music is a thing that grows between the performer and the listeners, so the audience's needs are also important.  And yes, we performers may know more than audiences about what they'd REALLY like , but that doesn't mean we shouldn't take their reactions into account.

Besides, I've learned over the years that audiences will forgive any number of technical errors if the performer "reaches out and touches."  S/he does this by facing his/her fears and opening her/his heart.  I've found that audiences tend to respond to openness with openness.

(I should add that many great musicians go the way of Michelangeli, or become "control freaks" or otherwise try to nail down every last detail in their musicmaking; but I have rather deliberately chosen to follow a more instinctive path, trusting in heightened awareness during the performance rather than too-extensive preparation beforehand.  It requires a certain bravado--but it works more often than not. )

And how is it possible that an audience can call someone insecure who has given perfect, even inhuman performances of pieces? Does that even make sense?

Perhaps an audience can't tell--but I tell you, we performers are always our own worst critics.  What is "perfection" to an audience is no such thing to one who's always striving, as Michelangeli was, for a higher level of perfection.  I know this; I live in this state.

[ezodisy]

That's a valid viewpoint--just one I happen to disagree with.  Music is a thing that grows between the performer and the listeners, so the audience's needs are also important.  And yes, we performers may know more than audiences about what they'd REALLY like , but that doesn't mean we shouldn't take their reactions into account.

Besides, I've learned over the years that audiences will forgive any number of technical errors if the performer "reaches out and touches."  S/he does this by facing his/her fears and opening her/his heart.  I've found that audiences tend to respond to openness with openness. :DPerhaps an audience can't tell--but I tell you, we performers are always our own worst critics.  What is "perfection" to an audience is no such thing to one who's always striving, as Michelangeli was, for a higher level of perfection.  I know this; I live in this state.

I agree. The thing is that it is impossible to imagine an audience, sitting in front of Michelangeli, whispering to each other that they wish his repertoire were larger (it was always eclectic). That could never happen, not when hearing such incomparable playing. This apparently limited repertoire only becomes a problem now that he has passed away, to those, IMO, who are more interested in collecting than listening (or you could say in quantity to quality). (I don't mean you, by the way). But then no doubt there are lots of things to complain about when you consider how much is judged by recordings or recording quantity alone.

[ezodisy]

Unfortunately, no action was taken.

I should hope not considering that most of the mods weren't even on this board while I was swearing and complaining back in the day.

I got that Testament you recommended recently so I will listen to it ASAP and report back.

Well that is just a slight improvement over the Documents set that you bought. It's also one of the great piano recitals caught on tape.

Surely any comments on his mental state are going to be speculation.

Surely any comments on his mental state from any other than his own family and friends could only be uttered by absolute morons. The fact that you are even thinking about doing this puts you very close to that group.

[Drasko]

I don't know the technicalities Dave. My experience was similar to Urania and Iron Needle -- heavily filtered. Sometimes it makes the piano sound like it's under water. With a pianist like Michelangeli who had more tonal colour than possibly any other pianist, the Document set is just a waste of time honestly.

Don't think Documents did anything soundwise here, these are straight repackaging of Aura discs. 

[mn dave]

Don't think Documents did anything soundwise here, these are straight repackaging of Aura discs. 

How do you know? And is that good or bad? Thanks.

[ezodisy]

Don't think Documents did anything soundwise here, these are straight repackaging of Aura discs. 

Is it Aura? I didn't know that -- didn't bother to check once I heard the name of the label. I used to have the entire Aura collection in that Michelangeli box which contained the personal memoirs written by his wife. That's a very good collection even if not a first (or second or third) choice, IMO.

[ezodisy]

I'm confused. If it's one of the great piano recitals, why is it only a slight improvement? (Or was that sarcasm?)

Yeah I was just joking. I am really bored. We probably wouldn't be arguing over a table, but because it's the internet, we should try to keep up appearances.

[Gurn Blanston]

Yeah I was just joking. I am really bored. We probably wouldn't be arguing over a table, but because it's the internet, we should try to keep up appearances.

Boredom will do strange things to a man. Witness: it has me posting in this thread...

I know there is an essential obligation to Internet standards involved here, but do let's try to keep it on a civil level please.

I was here when you were swearing and complaining, back in the day. Not being a mod at the time (they didn't exist then), I found it modestly amusing. And here, you're not doing either. Just being, perhaps, a tad too personal.

And I know that Howard really wants to take thing a tad less personal, so maybe we can find some common ground, so I can go back to work.

[ezodisy]

Boredom will do strange things to a man. Witness: it has me posting in this thread...

I know there is an essential obligation to Internet standards involved here, but do let's try to keep it on a civil level please.

I was here when you were swearing and complaining, back in the day. Not being a mod at the time (they didn't exist then), I found it modestly amusing. And here, you're not doing either. Just being, perhaps, a tad too personal.

And I know that Howard really wants to take thing a tad less personal, so maybe we can find some common ground, so I can go back to work.

Thanks Gurn, it appears that things are safely back on track.

Whatever that means. I would just suggest that you listen to a pianist and forget everything that has to do with quantity. Also don't waste your money on inherently cheap products. There's quite a lot that Richter played that it would have been better if he hadn't -- like Chopin, IMO. See what you make of the Testament recital.

[Drasko]

How do you know? And is that good or bad? Thanks.

Because I compared them. That is good. These are mostly live radio recordings spanning 50 years (early 40s to early 90s) and the sound quality is according, from excellent to poor and everything in between.
I think Documents sets are essential for Michelangeli enthusiast since some of the stuff is unavailable anywhere else and some of it is better than anywhere else, but are those recommendable for newcomer, don't really know. 20 discs a lot of material and there are few odd performances in there that could give you skewed impressions (like Helsinki Debussy Images or some very late Chopin).
In my opinion best way to start with anything is with couple well chosen discs (and Sidoze mentioned some of those) but on the other hand those two sets are ridiculously cheap (I got mine for $35 for both) and for that money even if you don't like them you can use them as paper weights, bookholders or something.
So, I don't think you'll be wasting money on these but will you be getting maximum out of them I don't really know.       

[mn dave]

Because I compared them. That is good. These are mostly live radio recordings spanning 50 years (early 40s to early 90s) and the sound quality is according, from excellent to poor and everything in between.
I think Documents sets are essential for Michelangeli enthusiast since some of the stuff is unavailable anywhere else and some of it is better than anywhere else, but are those recommendable for newcomer, don't really know. 20 discs a lot of material and there are few odd performances in there that could give you skewed impressions (like Helsinki Debussy Images or some very late Chopin).
In my opinion best way to start with anything is with couple well chosen discs (and Sidoze mentioned some of those) but on the other hand those two sets are ridiculously cheap (I got mine for $35 for both) and for that money even if you don't like them you can use them as paper weights, bookholders or something.
So, I don't think you'll be wasting money on these but will you be getting maximum out of them I don't really know.       

Thanks. I decided to take my chances since, as you say, they are ridiculously cheap.

[ezodisy]

My suggestion for you is to avoid scaring people away from listening to things, especially when you haven't even heard them, like the Michelangeli sets Dave asked about above.     

If it's the Aura set then I know it and I wouldn't recommend it as an intro. It has some good things in it but there's a lot of superfluous stuff too -- basically the same rule as all box-sets. If the sound is the same then it's okay. I don't know how much you know about piano recordings, but I would guess the Testament will be an ear opener, hopefully.