The Five Beethoven Piano Concertos and The Choral Fantasy

[North Star]

there are cadenzas for all his piano concertos that were composed by himself around 1808 with the exception that he directs no cadenza to be inserted to the 1st movement of the 5th... what is a 6th?  if it's op 61a there are 3 cadenzas composed by beethoven for 61a

'No. 6' is indeed Op. 61a - but, IIRC, Schoonderwoerd uses a piano from the period of the composition of the original violin concerto version, and thus can't play the cadenzas 

[The Raven]

op61 was composed in 1806. op 61a is its piano and orchestra version made by beethoven himself after the suggestion of Muzio Clementi in 1807. Piano cadenzas were composed specifically for this version. The cadenza for the first movement is over 130 bars with repeats and calls for a kettledrum obbligato,etc.etc.

[North Star]

Yes, I know all that, and the fact that the piano cadenza is arranged for violin, and works wonderfully in the violin version, too, makes it even sillier.

[North Star]

From Schoonderwoerd's liner notes:

Although we have no information about performances of the Piano Concerto op. 61A during Beethoven's lifetime, we may assume that it was played in private circles. In the 1808 Viennese edition of the two concertos (op. 61 and 61A) the cadenzas of the three movements are ad libitum. In the eighteenth-century tradition, the soloist was expected to improvise a short cadenza while the orchestra is silent. In 1810 Beethoven composed a number of cadenzas for this work requiring a fortepiano with a range of six octaves. The great cadenza, accompanied by the timpani, was probably composed for Archduke Rudolph, to whom Beethoven taught composition and piano, and in whose library the manuscript with the cadenzas of the Sixth Piano Concerto was rediscovered. Since these cadenzas were never published and they were written for a later instrument with a different range, I decided to improvise them in order to keep as close as possible to the version given in the first edition of this concerto.

[George]

No, not too aristocratic at all, she's very vigorous in the first movement.

I wonder what you think of this record which Cortot made of it in 1947 with Desarzens.

http://www.youtube.com/v/j9WeQJ_VNNc http://www.youtube.com/v/cS9jbeEPk5Q

Maybe you'll think he missed an opportunity to make more of  the spiritual bit towards the end of the first movement, where the music magically changes key (to C minor maybe) . Arrau/Haitink is wonderful at that point.

Hmm, haven't heard that one yet. Must listen soon.

[prémont]

I wonder what you think of this record which Cortot made of it in 1947 with Desarzens.

http://www.youtube.com/v/j9WeQJ_VNNc http://www.youtube.com/v/cS9jbeEPk5Q

Beautiful and refined and sounding very spontaneous, a tad too spontaneous (read: arbitrary) to my taste, - I think he loses sight of the great lines in the music. There is too little urgency, but lots of botanizing.

[George]

Hmm, haven't heard that one yet. Must listen soon.

I really loved this, especially Cortot's intimate approach to this work. I wish the orchestra was more on the same page as him, though.

[George]

What do you guys think of these two Beethoven compositions? And which performances of each do you enjoy?

1. Concerto for Piano and Orchestra in D major, Op.61a (constructed from the Violin concertos)

2. Concerto for Piano and Orchestra in E flat major, WoO 4

[springrite]

What do you guys think of these two Beethoven compositions? And which performances of each do you enjoy?

1. Concerto for Piano and Orchestra in D major, Op.61a (constructed from the Violin concertos)

2. Concerto for Piano and Orchestra in E flat major, WoO 4

The Op61a does not sound very convincing, until you hear the recording by Oli Mustonen. It is an amazing performance which for my ears makes the argument that it is even more appropriate as a piano version than the violin version.

Same high recommendation goes to Mustonen's entire cycle.

[George]

The Op61a does not sound very convincing, until you hear the recording by Oli Mustonen. It is an amazing performance which for my ears makes the argument that it is even more appropriate as a piano version than the violin version.

Same high recommendation goes to Mustonen's entire cycle.

Thanks!

[George]

The Op61a does not sound very convincing, until you hear the recording by Oli Mustonen. It is an amazing performance which for my ears makes the argument that it is even more appropriate as a piano version than the violin version.

Same high recommendation goes to Mustonen's entire cycle.

Is this his Op. 61a? http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Piano-Concerto-Orchestra-Australia/dp/B0007MR1WG/ref=sr_1_5?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1359442349&sr=1-5&keywords=Mustonen+Beethoven+Concertos

[springrite]

Is this his Op. 61a? http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Piano-Concerto-Orchestra-Australia/dp/B0007MR1WG/ref=sr_1_5?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1359442349&sr=1-5&keywords=Mustonen+Beethoven+Concertos

Try this one instead:

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Piano-Concerto-Olli-Mustonen/dp/B0018RWD9A/ref=sr_1_4?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1359442577&sr=1-4&keywords=Mustonen+Beethoven+Concertos

[George]

Try this one instead:

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Piano-Concerto-Olli-Mustonen/dp/B0018RWD9A/ref=sr_1_4?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1359442577&sr=1-4&keywords=Mustonen+Beethoven+Concertos

Ok, thanks!

[Mandryka]

I too liked Mustonen's  violin concerto transcription. And Schoonderwoerd's. And Dausgaard's. All on spotify.

[SonicMan46]

Try this one instead:

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Piano-Concerto-Olli-Mustonen/dp/B0018RWD9A/ref=sr_1_4?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1359442577&sr=1-4&keywords=Mustonen+Beethoven+Concertos

Hi Paul - I have several recordings of Mustonen doing other composers, but was piqued by your comments on the transcription of the violin concerto - looked on Amazon and saw that he has recorded all of the Beethoven PCs - have you had the opportunity to hear these recordings?  If so, any general comments?  Thanks - Dave

[springrite]

Hi Paul - I have several recordings of Mustonen doing other composers, but was piqued by your comments on the transcription of the violin concerto - looked on Amazon and saw that he has recorded all of the Beethoven PCs - have you had the opportunity to hear these recordings?  If so, any general comments?  Thanks - Dave

My favorite cycle by far. These works are so familiar that most good recordings are wonderful performances that are nevertheless run-of-the-mill stuff. You almost hum along. But Mustonen puts so much thought into it and there is so much detail that you never knew existed. It's like listening to these works for the very first time.

[Oldnslow]

ully concurr in the Mustonen cycle. He breaths new life into the concertos, and the orchestra and recording quaity are outstanding.

[SonicMan46]

Thanks Paul & Oldnslow for the comments on the Mustonen cycle - I ordered the CD w/ the 'violin transcription' last night , and I'm sure that I'll concur w/ your feelings about his performances, so might just pick up the other two discs in the near future!  Dave

[George]

I too liked Mustonen's  violin concerto transcription. And Schoonderwoerd's. And Dausgaard's. All on spotify.

Thanks for the tip, saved me some money. Just cancelled my Mustonen CD order.

[DavidRoss]

no one's mentioned uchida

just thought id throw it out there

I like Uchida's set with Sanderling. These works are neither among my favborite Beethoven pieces nor my favorite concertos, but I do listen to them from time to time and I'm somewhat fond of the 3rd & 4th. In trying to love them I've acquired Arrau, Gilels, Pollini, Kovacevich, Kempff, and one or two others, but the recordings I usually reach for are either Uchida or Bronfman/Zinman.