Bruckner 7th

[Henk]

Which recording?

[PerfectWagnerite]

Which one do you have?

[Henk]

I don't have anyone. But I heard it live and was very impressed. There are so many versions available, so I need some recommendation.

Henk

[PerfectWagnerite]

I don't have anyone. But I heard it live and was very impressed. There are so many versions available, so I need some recommendation.

Henk

Of that are readily available and are reasonably priced are:

Sanderling/Hanssler
Chailly/Decca
Boehm/DG
Giulini/DG
Karajan/DG
Skrowazewski/Arte Nova

All of them are excellent and you should find them very rewarding.

[Renfield]

For me? Karajan, hands-down, either on EMI:



Or later, on DG:




The EMI is beautiful, where the DG is sincere. Both in my view, of course.


Otherwise, there are a great many excellent Bruckner 7ths around, all with something to say; for example, the recent Haitink effort:





Or in complete cycles, like Jochum's (either on DG or EMI). By all means, sample around!


Edit: Clarification - I meant that the Haitink had something to say, not that it is excellent. Unclear syntax on my part.

[Lilas Pastia]

PW's list contains three that are just superb. Coincidentally they are all on the DG label. Get one of them, or all three!

The Staatskapelle Dresden under Blomstedt is my own favourite (Denon). Lucid, clear as a bell and probing the music's nooks and crannies as well as any. I don't think the orchestra has been surpassed in this work. The recording is absolutely gorgeous: transparent, wide in range, analytical and warm at the same time.

For a more urgent, tougher view, Schuricht (The Hague Orch.) or Gielen (SWR Baden-Baden Orch.) are brilliantly conceived and worth seeking.

I don't recommend the EMI Karajan on account of the glossy sound. It obscures a lot of important wind details. The scherzo is just a blur of blowsy brass, glitzy strings and echo-chamber timpani. The BPO sounds like a synthetic orchestra, unlike anything you could hear in a concert hall.  If you must have Karajan, his WP account is magnificent. If you must have the BPO, get Jochum. The latter's SD version is also superb, but I think the sound has dated. The same orchestra sound incomparably better on  Denon.

[Bonehelm]

Also Wand/BPO on RCA Victor. If you don't mind the edgy, razor-sharp brass, that is.

[M forever]

I don't recommend the EMI Karajan on account of the glossy sound. It obscures a lot of important wind details. The scherzo is just a blur of blowsy brass, glitzy strings and echo-chamber timpani. The BPO sounds like a synthetic orchestra, unlike anything you could hear in a concert hall.  If you must have Karajan, his WP account is magnificent. If you must have the BPO, get Jochum. The latter's SD version is also superb, but I think the sound has dated. The same orchestra sound incomparably better on  Denon.

I wouldn't say "incomparably" because the sound is very good, but it also sounds a little "early digital" which some may perceive just as much as a problem (small or big, depending on one's view) as the slightly harsh and bright, rather reverberant sound on Jochum's Dresden recording. Which may not ideal either, but I don't find it too "dated" to listen to and enjoy it. Even better though does the SD sound on Sinopoli's recording which is also on the reverberant side (same venue, the Lukaskirche for all 3 recordings), but it is not shrill at all, on the contrary, DG managed to capture the golden, warm, and sometimes very sharply outlined sound of the orchestra extremely well. From a sheer sonic beauty point of view, this is one of the nicest recordings I have ever heard. It is also a very distinguished performance which ranges from very lyrical and finely detailed to gigantic, roof-raising climaxes. So that would be one of my top recommendations, but I also enhoy Blomstedt's and Jochum's Dresden recordings a lot.

I disagree about the sound of the EMI Karajan, yes, it sounds a little cavernous and has some "glitzy" moments, but overall, it does sound rather more natural, more like the "real thing" than Karajan's DG recording with the BP. Still, I also think his last recording (literally) with the WP is his best, and it is also one of the bet sounding.

There are many very good versions of this symphony, but a little "secret tip" because it is not a recording that is often mentioned because it is apparently not well known is Dohnányi's recording with the Cleveland Orchestra (Decca) which is a lean and refined account, but with a lot of "sinew and muscle" nonetheless, and it is musically outstanding. Every detail is shaped and sounded.

And of course, more truly great Bruckner performances come from Vienna, the DG recordings with Böhm and with Giulini, both are outstanding in every respect.

[val]

My favorite version: Karl Böhm with the VPO. Slow but powerful, with a sublime phrasing in the Adagio. The orchestra is extraordinary.

All the other versions that I like (Jochum, Furtwängler, Haitink, Klemperer) seem pale compared to Böhm.

[Henk]

Thanks for the recommendations. The Bohm is a bargain too. $ 7. On label classica d'Oro:


I see this is the version of 1948, and I should get the version of 1976 I understand.

Someone knowing this one?:


It's cheap and also contains the 4th.

[PerfectWagnerite]

Thanks for the recommendations. The Bohm is a bargain too. $ 7. On label classica d'Oro:


I see this is the version of 1948, and I should get the version of 1976 I understand.

This is the Boehm Bruckner 7th I have:



I have not heard the earlier one but probably you should get the stereo one first because the sonics are likely far superior. There is also another Boehm 7th with the Bavarian Radio SO on Audite that a lot of members here love but I have not heard. In any case I think Boehm is a peerless Bruckner conductor and you are unlikely not to be moved by his readings.

Wand should also be heard regardless, whether you want to go with his earlier Cologne reading, his middle NDR reading, or his later Berlin reading is probably of secondary importance. Wand is just one of those guys whose Bruckner just sounds so "right" on many aspects. It just sounds like music and sound of another world.

[M forever]

Thanks for the recommendations. The Bohm is a bargain too. $ 7. On label classica d'Oro:


I see this is the version of 1948, and I should get the version of 1976 I understand.

Someone knowing this one?:


It's cheap and also contains the 4th.

I believe the earlier Böhm recording is from 1943 rather than 1948. I haven't heard it, but in any case, it will be more of historical interest than as an "entry" version. The one on DG from 1976 is what you should get. Also look out for the WP/Giulini, SD/Sinopoli and SD/Blomstedt versions and see if you find a good deal on those, then strike mercilessly. These are all outstanding recordings.

Forget the Barenboim stuff. He doesn't have much to "say" about Bruckner and adopts a generally "grandiose" attitude which may sound OK on the sruface but there isn't much musical depth there. Plus the playing of the orchestra, especially the brass which play every single note completely sustained and straight as if it was sampled sounds on a keyboard, is about as unstylish as it can get. Supported by DG bright and compact sound, this caters to the misunderstanding that Bruckner's music is just for brass band with a few other instruments in the background.

[Henk]

I only can get the Sanderling, both Karajan's and both Bohm's, but CdUniverse has only one of the WPO left.

Someone knowing these ones?:

[PerfectWagnerite]

I only can get the Sanderling, both Karajan's and both Bohm's, but CdUniverse has only one of the WPO left.

Which WP are you referring to here?

I only can get the Sanderling, both Karajan's and both Bohm's, but CdUniverse has only one of the WPO left.

Someone knowing these ones?:

I have a 4th and 8th with Tennstedt/LPO and they are quite good, very well presented and free of eccentricities but I really can't say they are special in any way.

THe sound on the FUrtwangler(depending on the transfer I guess) is absolutely ghastly. Even for 1951 the sound is unacceptable. In general I finde Furtwangler's Bruckner too sloppy. Again, it is probably of historical interest but shouldn't be your 1st or 2nd 7th I don't think.

I can't emphasisze enough how astoundingly beautiful the Skrowaczewski recording on Arte Nova/Oehm is. If you ever see it don't pass it up.

[Henk]

Which WP are you referring to here?

I mean the Bohm, '76.

I have a 4th and 8th with Tennstedt/LPO and they are quite good, very well presented and free of eccentricities but I really can't say they are special in any way.

THe sound on the FUrtwangler(depending on the transfer I guess) is absolutely ghastly. Even for 1951 the sound is unacceptable. In general I finde Furtwangler's Bruckner too sloppy. Again, it is probably of historical interest but shouldn't be your 1st or 2nd 7th I don't think.

I can't emphasisze enough how astoundingly beautiful the Skrowaczewski recording on Arte Nova/Oehm is. If you ever see it don't pass it up.

I've searched further and can get that recording! E. 8,-, reissued on Harmonia Mundi. And I order the Bohm also for E. 5,-.

Henk

[Lilas Pastia]

I haven't (ever) listened to the Sinopoli SD version  . I have his 5 and 9 (just recently acquired and still unlistened to) as well as the Böhm SOBR (Audite) which I found cheap in Europe last month. I remember having been mightily impressed by the Chailly Decca, but heard it only once, some 15 years ago. I can't recommend it based on that very incomplete experience. Reacquaintance is definitely in order. I'll post my impressions on the Böhm in due course (I also bought the 8th from the same provenance)

There are many other good 7ths out there, including the two Philips Haitink releases (very lucid and 'strict', with a penchant for directness in the first version that some hear as plainness or even indifference - he's more glowing and conventionally grand in the second Amsterdam recording), Nézet-Séguin (wonderfully akin to the "pure, innocent' world of Mahler 4, while still managing to fill the structure with gorgeously virile sounds), and no doubt many others. Of interest to completists are the versions by van Otterloo, Schuricht Stuttgart, Ormandy-Minneapolis and Toscanini NYP. All bring very different POVs on the music, but the force of their artistic personality manages to make each convincing in their own way. Each is also compromised by dated recording and/or embarrassing orchestral flubs.

I would have to listen anew to Sanderling and Furtwängler to firm up my opinion (based on a couple of listenings). On initial acquaintance I didn't feel much connection with the music in the Boulez WP: very well played, but his kind of clearheaded, no-nonsense and unsentimental view is much more convincingly put across by Gielen and Schuricht, who manage to stamp their personality on the proceedings, something Boulez woefully fails to do (he's much better at that in the 8th). A few listenings (3-4?) to the Stuttgart Celibidache (DG) still leave me wondering what the fuss is about. I din't hear the EMI one.

M, regarding the sound on the EMI Karajan: I find damning the haziness and lost-in-the-distance wind lines in the Scherzo. The important clarinet figurations might as well have been recorded on the other side of the Berlin Wall. Compare to just about any of the really well engineered one to hear what I mean. Even some 'historic' recordings bring them much more clearly than here. In concert Bruckner's clarinets and bassoons come across perfectly well. Bruckner knew exactly how to orchestrate for winds, which makes every single note or phrase for these instruments absolutely indispensable for the clarity of argument and fullness of harmonies. That is sacrificed in the EMI recording. The same could be said of the EMI Karajan 4th - a contemporaneous recording. Both were issued together in a 3 lp box which I had on my shelves for two decades. But somehow the grand, grand vistas of the 'Romantic' respond better to the Cinerama treatment than the 7th's more diaphanous sound world.

[Moldyoldie]

Riccardo Chailly's with the Radio Symphony Orchestra of Berlin on London/Decca can be had dirt cheap on the used market and it's outstanding in most every respect.

[Lilas Pastia]

"most every respect" is an oxymoron. Could you clarify?

[Renfield]

"most every respect" is an oxymoron. Could you clarify?

I suspect he meant "almost".

[M forever]

Otherwise, there are a great many excellent Bruckner 7ths around, all with something to say; for example, the recent Haitink effort:

I was in two of the concerts in which that was recorded (it must be edited together from several nights, probably all four, because in both concerts that I was in, Friday and Saturday, there were several fairly serious booboos) and didn't find at all that it had "something to say". I was disappointed by the facelessness and lack of musical style of these playthroughs. Haitink had apparently tried to tone down the notorious brass a little, but the result was that is simply sounded thin and pale most of the time, until he allowed them to play louder when they did their best to drown everything else out. That suddenly started in the 3rd movement, maybe that was part of Haitink's "dramatic concept", who knows. Several key passages, like the funeral music for all the horns at the end of the slow movement, simply didn't happen, the horns had some serious intonation problems and there, where "great tone" is really needed, they sounded strangely subdued and thinnish.