Catharsis

[Chaszz]

Catharsis is a specific emotional state first theorized about by Aristotle in relation to the Greek tragedies. In his opinion, a great tragic play provides a feeling of cleansing and renewal through its building up, enactment and purging of powerful emotions. I do not put myself forward as any kind of authority on catharsis, but have occasionally experienced it in the theatre when seeing a modern or classical tragedy on the stage. The three that I remember most powerfully are Macbeth, Death of a Salesman and Oedipus Rex.

If you have experienced this emotion and recognize it, have you ever experienced in in an opera? Or in an instrumental work?

I personally have not experienced it in an opera. Notwithstanding Wagner's modelling his works to a large extant on Greek tragedy, and indeed the very birth of opera as an intentional modern revival of Greek drama, which included music and dance. The musical work that always does provides catharsis for me is the Bach Chaconne, especially on piano in the Busoni arrangement. And it happens twice, as there are two separate climaxes to the movement. I don't have other musical works to mind right now, but am going to try to think of some while perhaps other listeners will respond. 

[(poco) Sforzando]

Catharsis is a specific emotional state first theorized about by Aristotle in relation to the Greek tragedies. In his opinion, a great tragic play provides a feeling of cleansing and renewal through its building up, enactment and purging of powerful emotions. I do not put myself forward as any kind of authority on catharsis, but have occasionally experienced it in the theatre when seeing a modern or classical tragedy on the stage. The three that I remember most powerfully are Macbeth, Death of a Salesman and Oedipus Rex.

If you have experienced this emotion and recognize it, have you ever experienced in in an opera? Or in an instrumental work?

I personally have not experienced it in an opera. Notwithstanding Wagner's modelling his works to a large extant on Greek tragedy. The musical work that always does provides it for me is the Bach Chaconne, especially on piano in the Busoni arrangement. And it happens twice, as there are two separate climaxes to the movement. I don't have others to mind right now, but am going to try to think of some while perhaps other listeners will respond. 

Boris Godunov (the Czar's death), Peter Grimes. Not in Wagner (the Ring, Tristan), as I think he was aiming more for a sense of transcendental apotheosis.

I consider the last scene of Don Giovanni to be a kind of "comic catharsis."

[hornteacher]

The obvious choice for me is Mozart's Requiem.

[some guy]

May Zeus forgive me for what I am about to say,

but I am just glad my catharsis has been removed.

But seriously, I'm not sure about the whole purging business of Mr. Aristotle's. He's clearly attempting to provide a complete and consistent view of the arts to set against Plato's view of them. And missing is Aristotle's treatise on Comedy. (I don't remember if he wrote it and it was lost or if he just never got around to it.) But I do think that all art, even the not so great, does offer us a way out of the prison of our own little lives, our own, individual, petty, little likes and dislikes. (Which is a big reason I personally find the spectacle of classical listeners squabbling with each other just ever so slightly distasteful. But that's just me. Individual and, doubtless, petty.)

I certainly do not see art as being somehow, however grandly expressed, my servant, its whole purpose to minister to my cleansing and renewal. It may indeed do both of those things, but that's rather a side effect, I would think.

"For beauty is nothing but
the beginning of terror, that we are still able to bear,
and we revere it so, because it calmly disdains
to destroy us." --Rilke, Duino Elegy no. 1

[Renfield]

Cato might have a few enlightening words to say here. Otherwise, notably cathartic works for me are Bruckner's 7th and 8th symphony, Mahler's 6th, 8th and 9th, and Brahms' 4th, off the top of my head. Edit: Also Tchaikovsky's 6th, perhaps unsurprisingly.

And since you mentioned catharsis in modern theatre, Arthur Miller's "All My Sons" certainly had just that effect on me. It came at a very strange period of my life, following a sequence of highly traumatic events; I was 17 then, and have not been to the theatre since.

(In fact, I just realised that.

And I wonder to what extent it might be connected to a subconsciously Pavlovian response to the shock "All My Sons" then gave me.)

[Anne]

Boris Godunov (the Czar's death), Peter Grimes. Not in Wagner (the Ring, Tristan), as I think he was aiming more for a sense of transcendental apotheosis.

I consider the last scene of Don Giovanni to be a kind of "comic catharsis."

My very first thought was Boris Godunov, also. 

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

First off the bat, because the most recent - Myaskovsky's Sixth Symphony (especially when the ad lib. chorus in the Finale is used).

[lukeottevanger]

In a less earth-shattering, romantic sense than is being implied here, catharsis is inherent in a well-executed classical sonata movement, with the return to the tonic after the development and with e.g. the subdominant inflection that may well follow. The coherent sweep from chaos, through climax, to catharsis, achieved primarily through tonal means, is one of the chief accomplishments of the classical sonata, though I personally relish it most in Brahms, who I think the most cathartic composer of all (time and time and time again....)

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

In a less earth-shattering, romantic sense than is being implied here, catharsis is inherent in a well-executed classical sonata movement, with the return to the tonic after the development and with e.g. the subdominant inflection that may well follow. The coherent sweep from chaos, through climax, to catharsis, achieved primarily through tonal means, is one of the chief accomplishments of the classical sonata, though I personally relish it most in Brahms, who I think the most cathartic composer of all (time and time and time again....)

You relish it most in Brahms, possibly, because with him Classical order is something under threat and/or in the past, so that it requires heroic intellectual and emotional effort to attain formal coherence.

[ezodisy]

You relish it most in Brahms, possibly, because with him Classical order is something under threat and/or in the past, so that it requires heroic intellectual and emotional effort to attain formal coherence.

Well, either that or because of Brahms' sexual sublimation

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Well, either that or because of Brahms' sexual sublimation

Brahms only sublimated in the case of Clara Schumann. He knew his way around Vienna... 

[lukeottevanger]

...to coin a euphemism.

Johan's diagnosis (of the cause of my relish of Brahmsian catharsis)is probably right, though. Is there a more cathartic piece in the world than op 114?

[Keemun]

I first recognized the experience of catharsis when listening to the Funeral March from Beethoven's Symphony No. 3 recorded by Karajan/BPO (1963).  I'm sure there are others, I just cannot think of them now.

[Sergeant Rock]

If you have experienced this emotion and recognize it, have you ever experienced in in an opera? Or in an instrumental work?

The third movement, Vivace, of Brian's Gothic symphony invariably provides a staggering catharsis....every single time I listen to it (which is well over a hundred by now).

There are many other musical moments that do it, too many to list but a few come readily to mind: the lead up to and beginning of the recapitulation in the Eroica's first movement; Fauré's Pavane, especially the choral version; the coda of Bruckner's Fifth (actually, every single coda Bruckner wrote is cathartic!); Nielsen's Third, first movment, when Nielsen finally releases the waltz in all its glory after teasing us with hints for more than half the movement.

In opera one moment stands out for me: the end of the first act, Walküre, when Siegmund sings, "Braut und Schwester bist du dem Bruder, so blühe denn Wälsungen Blut!

Sarge

[Cato]

Cato might have a few enlightening words to say here. Otherwise, notably cathartic works for me are Bruckner's 7th and 8th symphony, Mahler's 6th, 8th and 9th, and Brahms' 4th, off the top of my head. Edit: Also Tchaikovsky's 6th, perhaps unsurprisingly.

And since you mentioned catharsis in modern theatre, Arthur Miller's "All My Sons" certainly had just that effect on me. It came at a very strange period of my life, following a sequence of highly traumatic events; I was 17 then, and have not been to the theatre since.

(In fact, I just realised that.

And I wonder to what extent it might be connected to a subconsciously Pavlovian response to the shock "All My Sons" then gave me.)

"A few enlightening words..."       Well, here goes!

I believe the effect will vary not just (obviously) from person to person, but inside the individual: age, maturity, what might be happening to us at the moment, etc. all play a role.  A work which brings us that cathartic feeling one day might leave us just shrugging and even confused as to why the effect did not occur again.

On Aristotle and specifically musical catharsis: my vast archives are not at hand, so I cannot check the original text, but as I recall, there are a good number of problems with the Poetics.  Aristotle in fact promises at one point in the text to discuss musical catharsis when he deals with poetry, but then fails to do so.  This has led to debates across the centuries about whether the author forgot his promise, assuming that the work was written over several years; whether the text is corrupt at that point; whether the text represents a first version or a working, unfinalized book etc.

David Hume has an essay on how we can appreciate a tragedy's catharsis because we sense the perfection of the story-telling, even though the ending is not happy.  Again my copy is not at hand, and perhaps Hume says the following in it, perhaps not.  But in music, as in tragedy, the "perfection" of the story-telling (such as it is in music) must also mean that the audience knows order somehow is operating in the universe.  If Oedipus must gouge out his eyes and live out his life in remorse, we have a cathartic feeling because - although that is horrible for him - this punishment means the universe makes sense. 

To be sure, the bad guys are not always caught or punished: one thinks of Stalin, who is still today admired by too many in Russia.  He came in #2 recently, right behind Czar Nicholas II in a popularity poll.  But we do not want art necessarily to point this out, and if it does, we still need to see it as an anomaly.  In general, an evil life does come back around on you: you will be caught and punished.

For music, then, the "story" is much more vague of course, but whatever it is, if the composer's story is big enough, the catharsis will come, if we have been able to follow the plot of the story and can agree that the conclusion logically stems from all that came before.

A catharsis does not need to lead from dark to light: Tchaikovsky's Sixth and Mahler's Ninth are examples of this, with the Mahler being more gently resigned to its fate than the Tchaikovsky. 

And the catharsis can come inside of a work: as mentioned earlier, certainly the 3rd movements of the Bruckner Seventh and Eighth provide catharses which nearly sabotage the Finales, and I would say that the 3rd movement of the (technically) unfinished Ninth does sabotage the Finale, or at least what we know of it. 

Light to lighter as the route for a catharsis is also possible: Ravel's Bolero and La Valse and Nielsen's Third Symphony mentioned earlier are examples of going from light to lighter. 

Whether Aristotle would agree with such a "light" catharsis would make an interesting debate.  I suspect he would not agree, but...

So I think what we like about a catharsis is that it provides a sense of emotional order: the relief is one that says: yes, this is the way it should be, or this is the way it must be (even with exceptions), and yes, Life has at least some order, some meaning, some purpose.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

The third movement, Vivace, of Brian's Gothic symphony invariably provides a staggering catharsis....every single time I listen to it (which is well over a hundred by now).

Yes, it is one of the great moments in symphonic literature which, once heard, is never forgotten.

(Your 3000th posting is coming up, Sarge!)

To add a few to the ones already mentioned - close of the Sibelius Fifth (the ecstasy is overwhelming), the triumphant conclusion of Delius's Mass of Life, the codas of both Langgaard's and Brian's Sixteenth...

[Sergeant Rock]

(Your 3000th posting is coming up, Sarge!)

I hadn't noticed. Thanks for pointing it out, Johan. This one should be 3001. My 3000th must have been my deadly serious reply to Dirk in the "Let's play a little game" thread. 

Sarge

[mn dave]

I hadn't noticed. Thanks for pointing it out, Johan. This one should be 3001. My 3000th must have been my deadly serious reply to Dirk in the "Let's play a little game" thread. 

Sarge

Who's counting?



Oh, Johan is.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I hadn't noticed. Thanks for pointing it out, Johan. This one should be 3001. My 3000th must have been my deadly serious reply to Dirk in the "Let's play a little game" thread.

CONGRATULATIONS

[marvinbrown]

  I find Wagner's Tristan und Isolde the most cathartic work ever composed.  Two forbidden lovers whose passion for each other is so strong that it could only be consumated in death! 4.5 hours of endless sexual longing and agony that is finally put to rest through an emotionally exhausting ending......... I can't think of a more cathartic work. 

  marvin