Is the composer obsolete?

[zamyrabyrd]

A very valid question, Ms. Byrd.  If you accept at face value what a lot of people say, there aren't any great performers left either.

But all my experiences as listener and performer lead me to feel that there is a spiritual connection established at every live musical event that isn't there, at least to the same degree, when we listen to recordings.  The stronger the performers and music, the stronger the connection...

That's just it, whether the specialized "great" performer, if the definition includes being a note machine with reams of memorized repertoire, is a dinosaur. Knowing fewer pieces and/or improvising, playing to those who appreciate--you don't need to fill the big halls--well, that seems like the trend for the performer of the present and future. It's not that we will disappear but we don't have to be Rubinsteins or Heifetzes in order to claim that title.

ZB

[jochanaan]

That's just it, whether the specialized "great" performer, if the definition includes being a note machine with reams of memorized repertoire, is a dinosaur...

Exactly, and that's why I avoided the word great in my previous comment.  A strong performance doesn't have to be one of superhuman speed and accuracy; these things help, but only if there's equal strength in the performers' inner beings.  And certain instruments, such as the oboe, the 'cello, and especially the human voice, lend themselves more to a style that emphasizes tone, phrasing, and "soul" rather than speed and accuracy.

[some guy]

Until the self-consciousness of Modernity, I don't know know that many artists thought their audiences had a duty to be reverently attentive (except for church music, obviously).

Wow, way to load things up there, eyeresist. "Self-conscousness," eh? Like the Sturm und Drang folks, perhaps? "Modernity" with a capital "M," even, as if all art since... (since when?) were self-conscious--or as if all art before... (before when?) were not self-conscious.

And "duty" and "reverently"!! Do you have any evidence that any of this is any other than your own single and prejudicial imagining? (And did I use too many "any's" in that last question?) Church composers would have been the least likely to think this, as reverence in that case would have been assumed--and assumed to be directed towards the same things their music was directed.

I think the key here is in the words "I don't know." Composers have for hundreds of years complained about audiences not paying attention to their works in concerts. Of course, if you do count "modern" as covering the past two or three hundred years, then I have to take everything back.

[ChamberNut]

Some Guy, or any other of the Moderners, what do you think is the best medium for works from contemporary composers for exposure?

Would it be film?

[Philoctetes]

Some Guy, or any other of the Moderners, what do you think is the best medium for works from contemporary composers for exposure?

Would it be film?

Or a variant thereof (television, etc.)

[karlhenning]

Some Guy, or any other of the Moderners, what do you think is the best medium for works from contemporary composers for exposure?

Would it be film?

Ugh.

[Florestan]

I'm still waiting for "Josquin des Prez" or anyone else to enlighten me: when and with whom did music start going downwards? I've heard so many versions that I'm confused. For instance, one very serious guy I've heard in a TV show pretended that Beethoven "dragged music in a morass out of which it was never lifted again". Yet another is to be found here. Now, what am I to make of these?

[some guy]

Not film, for sure. Though there are a lot of composers making videos nowadays, and a lot of composers collaborating with filmmakers.

The problem with film is that for most people the images will be the most compelling part of the experience, with the music barely noticed.

I once played some electroacoustic music for my cousin, who was very angered that that kind of thing even existed! Then a little later, my cousin and I happened to go to that movie about the guy who skied down Everest, which has a soundtrack of electronic music. Afterwards, I asked him who he had liked the music? "Oh, I didn't even notice it."

A lot of new musics have been used in films for many years. That has not led to any uptick in the consumption of new music.

[petrarch]

one very serious guy I've heard in a TV show pretended that Beethoven "dragged music in a morass out of which it was never lifted again". Yet another is to be found here. Now, what am I to make of these?

I really don't see the point of such articles, other than being a vehicle for the author to express how good his tastes are and lash his hates--and it became pretty clear who his pet hates are. He lost all credibility as soon as he uttered the "I wish that Beethoven was more like Mozart or Haydn". If he wants Mozart or Haydn, listen to Mozart or Haydn!

[Florestan]

I really don't see the point of such articles, other than being a vehicle for the author to express how good his tastes are and lash his hates--and it became pretty clear who his pet hates are. He lost all credibility as soon as he uttered the "I wish that Beethoven was more like Mozart or Haydn". If he wants Mozart or Haydn, listen to Mozart or Haydn!

I agree with you all right. I just wanted to show that the "turning point" of music could be chosen ad libitum, according to the tastes and intellect of the chooser. 

[some guy]

Always assuming that there ever was a point where music took a turn for the worse.

I would have hoped that THAT would have been the first thing to have been called into question....

[DavidRoss]

I'm still waiting for "Josquin des Prez" or anyone else to enlighten me: when and with whom did music start going downwards? I've heard so many versions that I'm confused. For instance, one very serious guy I've heard in a TV show pretended that Beethoven "dragged music in a morass out of which it was never lifted again". Yet another is to be found here. Now, what am I to make of these?

The Bard has your answer:

     It is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

[karlhenning]

The Bard has your answer:

     It is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Hmm.  Sounds like a self-fulfilling blog, doesn't it? 

[DavidRoss]

Hmm.  Sounds like a self-fulfilling blog, doesn't it? 

Too bad the fellow you have in mind isn't able to appreciate the irony...but then, if he were bright enough, it might not be so ironic!

[zamyrabyrd]

Exactly, and that's why I avoided the word great in my previous comment.  A strong performance doesn't have to be one of superhuman speed and accuracy; these things help, but only if there's equal strength in the performers' inner beings.  And certain instruments, such as the oboe, the 'cello, and especially the human voice, lend themselves more to a style that emphasizes tone, phrasing, and "soul" rather than speed and accuracy.

Speed and accuracy are not usually a problem, mainly the hours one puts into them and hopefully not at the expense of expression. As long as there are multiplicious recordings of the same works, the question arises, what is the point of yet another Tschaikovsky Piano Concerto or Waldstein Sonata on CD? And the people who are supposed to supply this doubtful need, are being trained in conservatories to churn out these works, but maybe the change of the function of the musician should descend upon the bastions of learning. This was always a problem back in the days of Cherubini vs. Berlioz and the flak Debussy had to endure from the old guard.

The revolution of computer generated music makes it possible for the performer and composer to be one and the same without having to master all the instruments manually. The emphasis of the specialised performer as the faithful servant of the composer is a little outdated. Playing for one's enjoyment and for others, to delve into the great music of the past and present--all this is fine.

ZB

[CRCulver]

A lot of new musics have been used in films for many years. That has not led to any uptick in the consumption of new music.

I don't know. Ligeti was ultimately one of the most widely marketed contemporary composers, but were his music not featured in 2001: A Space Odyssey, he'd be as relatively obscure as the other Darmstadt figures.

[(poco) Sforzando]

I'm still waiting for "Josquin des Prez" or anyone else to enlighten me: when and with whom did music start going downwards?

Perhaps around 1810-15 when the range of the fortepiano was extended a perfect fourth down. But then at the same time it was extended a perfect fifth up. This is all so confusing . . . .

[jochanaan]

Some Guy, or any other of the Moderners, what do you think is the best medium for works from contemporary composers for exposure?

Would it be film?

With a few exceptions, no.  You generally don't find extremely modernistic music in films produced for mass consumption.  (The films of Stanley Kubrick are a happy exception, and in another vein, so is the "Qatsi" series by director Godfrey Reggio and composer Philip Glass: Koyaanisqatsi, Nakoyqatsi, and Powaqqatsi.  And a lot of early scifi films, before and including Logan's Run of 1975, have electronic and other modernistic music in the soundtracks.)

Probably the best way to explore modernistic music is through small groups that dedicate themselves to this repertoire, such as the Kronos Quartet.  Then if you find something you like, look for other works by that composer.

[Florestan]

Perhaps around 1810-15 when the range of the fortepiano was extended a perfect fourth down. But then at the same time it was extended a perfect fifth up. This is all so confusing . . . .

[Szykneij]

With a few exceptions, no.  You generally don't find extremely modernistic music in films produced for mass consumption.  (The films of Stanley Kubrick are a happy exception, and in another vein, so is the "Qatsi" series by director Godfrey Reggio and composer Philip Glass: Koyaanisqatsi, Nakoyqatsi, and Powaqqatsi.  And a lot of early scifi films, before and including Logan's Run of 1975, have electronic and other modernistic music in the soundtracks.)

Another example is the film "The Illusionist". Set in Austria-Hungary during the late 1800's, I expected the score would most likely feature music that was "Brahmsian" or "Mahlerian". Instead, the effective (as well as affective) soundtrack was also composed by Philip Glass.