Gielen's Mahler

[Novi]

Just passing on a message ...

Someone on the BBC Radio 3 boards posted that the boxset is available for 27 euros from fnac (French website).

[The new erato]

Is anybody able to find info on P&P for countries outside France? I usually find French websites very difficult to navigate and uninformative - and this is no exceptin.

[Novi]

Is anybody able to find info on P&P for countries outside France? I usually find French websites very difficult to navigate and uninformative - and this is no exceptin.

Here you go:

http://www.fnac.com/help/A06-15.asp?NID=%2D11&RNID=%2D11

LOL, those French classes at school were good for something after all .

[DavidRoss]

So even with $25 for shipping the price is half what Amazon's charging.  But do I really need another Mahler cycle? 

[mahler10th]

So even with $25 for shipping the price is half what Amazon's charging.  But do I really need another Mahler cycle? 

Yes.

[Sergeant Rock]

It figures an offer like ths would appear shortly after I committed myself to buying the cycle on single discs (2, 3, 4, 7, and 10 purchased so far). 


Sarge

[Bunny]

It figures an offer like ths would appear shortly after I committed myself to buying the cycle on single discs (2, 3, 4, 7, and 10 purchased so far). 


Sarge

Do not repine! Despite the "bargain price" of the FNAC offering, the single symphony cds actually are more interesting and a better value -- if you can find all of the symphonies at a decent price point. .  The singles include complementing works by other composers and the breaks in the symphonies (when they occur) are better planned than in the box set. 

Gielen's Mahler is very well done, but the set has been ridiculously overpriced!  It's long overdue for a price chop.

[Lethevich]

Gielen's Mahler is very well done, but the set has been ridiculously overpriced!  It's long overdue for a price chop.

Especially as it doesn't come with the very interesting couplings that the original discs had. It is common to see someone opt to buy the single CDs due to that - although I suppose that makes the label more money, so perhaps this has been their plan all along

Edit: Errrr... you said EXACTLY that in your previous paragraph. Mental note: read posts before replying -_-

[Bunny]

Especially as it doesn't come with the very interesting couplings that the original discs had. It is common to see someone opt to buy the single CDs due to that - although I suppose that makes the label more money, so perhaps this has been their plan all along

Edit: Errrr... you said EXACTLY that in your previous paragraph. Mental note: read posts before replying -_-

Great minds thinking alike? 

[PerfectWagnerite]

The singles include complementing works by other composers and the breaks in the symphonies (when they occur) are better planned than in the box set. 

Not sure what you are talking about. All the works that require 2 discs got spread over two discs and those requiring one disc stay on one disc so Hanssler did a great job in tracking. Maybe you don't like the fact that the first movement of #3 is the final track on the same cd containing the final few movements of #2 but you only have to hit the skip button on your cd player once or twice to get to it. #6 and #8 occupy two cds each much like what you would get had these works been released separately.

Overpriced or not overpriced you don't have to buy it. Maybe it will be cheaper in 5 years, then again it could go out of print and you are SOL. Currently the price is about $100 which isn't too bad for a modern digital cycle in stunning sound. And it is not like it just sounds like 99% of the generic Mahler out there today since Gielen does have something interesting and unique to say about the music.

[Bunny]

Not sure what you are talking about. All the works that require 2 discs got spread over two discs and those requiring one disc stay on one disc so Hanssler did a great job in tracking. Maybe you don't like the fact that the first movement of #3 is the final track on the same cd containing the final few movements of #2 but you only have to hit the skip button on your cd player once or twice to get to it. #6 and #8 occupy two cds each much like what you would get had these works been released separately.

Overpriced or not overpriced you don't have to buy it. Maybe it will be cheaper in 5 years, then again it could go out of print and you are SOL. Currently the price is about $100 which isn't too bad for a modern digital cycle in stunning sound. And it is not like it just sounds like 99% of the generic Mahler out there today since Gielen does have something interesting and unique to say about the music.

It's a very good Mahler cycle.  It's very overpriced.  One fact does not negate the other.

[M forever]

Maybe you don't like the fact that the first movement of #3 is the final track on the same cd containing the final few movements of #2

That's OK like that since Mahler prescribes a little break after the first movement anyway. I don't like it if the 3rd is spread over two discs with the break after the third movement.

[Bunny]

That's OK like that since Mahler prescribes a little break after the first movement anyway. I don't like it if the 3rd is spread over two discs with the break after the third movement.

A specified long break between the 1st and 2nd movements of the 3rd is new to me.  The only long break that I've ever heard that Mahler specified was the "20 minute break" between the 1st and 2nd movements of the 2nd symphony.  I more particularly don't like the 2nd symphony split between IV and V.  That really is much more objectionable.  In fact I actually copied the 2nd so that I listen with the split between movement I and II. 

That the first movement on the Third was then added to the disc with the finale of the 2nd in that way is just adding insult to the injury.  It is just another indication of how thoughtlessly the set was put together with the "bottom line" clearly the most important factor.  People who shelled out the $100 plus in those days when the dollar was still strong all deserved a lot more thought and care in how the cycle was put together.   And please don't even mention the cheap and shoddy disc sheaths!  Glacine and paper do not wear well.

The cycle is overpriced, which doesn't mean it isn't a great cycle.  It does mean that it is due for a huge price chop.  I haven't found that listening to the Gielen is more satisfying than listening to the Bertini cycle, for instance, which is half the price, and includes DLVE.

[George]

It's a very good Mahler cycle.  It's very overpriced.  One fact does not negate the other.

Just sent you a PM Bunny. 

[PerfectWagnerite]

A specified long break between the 1st and 2nd movements of the 3rd is new to me.  The only long break that I've ever heard that Mahler specified was the "20 minute break" between the 1st and 2nd movements of the 2nd symphony. 

20 minutes? I  thought it was 5 minutes.

[M forever]

A specified long break between the 1st and 2nd movements of the 3rd is new to me.  The only long break that I've ever heard that Mahler specified was the "20 minute break" between the 1st and 2nd movements of the 2nd symphony.

I don't remember exactly what it says in the score and I don't have one here to check, but somebody else may have it. I think it says something fairly unspecific like "here follows a lenghty interval". After all, the first movement isn't just the first movement, it in itself is also the first "Abtheilung" (part). I have seen the somehat unspecific instruction handled in many different ways. Once in Berlin, with Levine, there was an actual interval which the audience didn't quite realize until Levine simply put the baton down and walked off. A few people clapped, and the orchestra took off, too, so people realized that there was an interval and started heading out. Once in LA, with Salonen, they put a chair there for him between the podium and the first desks of the strings in front of it, and he sat there for 5 minutes with his back to the audience (of course, there are also seats behind the orchestra, so this for him typically hollow gesture was just that - hollow). Once in Vienna, I saw the symphony with Zubin Mehta and there was an interval, too, but the audience realized that and clapped after the first movement. Mehta bowed once and then exited, followed by the orchestra.
Intervals in the middle of coherent symphonies may be unusual, but then there are few that long symphonies anyway, and intervals are customary in the opera, too, so why not?

[PerfectWagnerite]

I don't remember exactly what it says in the score and I don't have one here to check, but somebody else may have it. I think it says something fairly unspecific like "here follows a lenghty interval".

It simply says in the score (Dover edition, pg 224):

Hier folgt eine Pause von mindestens 5 Minuten.

[Bunny]

I don't remember exactly what it says in the score and I don't have one here to check, but somebody else may have it. I think it says something fairly unspecific like "here follows a lenghty interval". After all, the first movement isn't just the first movement, it in itself is also the first "Abtheilung" (part). I have seen the somehat unspecific instruction handled in many different ways. Once in Berlin, with Levine, there was an actual interval which the audience didn't quite realize until Levine simply put the baton down and walked off. A few people clapped, and the orchestra took off, too, so people realized that there was an interval and started heading out. Once in LA, with Salonen, they put a chair there for him between the podium and the first desks of the strings in front of it, and he sat there for 5 minutes with his back to the audience (of course, there are also seats behind the orchestra, so this for him typically hollow gesture was just that - hollow). Once in Vienna, I saw the symphony with Zubin Mehta and there was an interval, too, but the audience realized that and clapped after the first movement. Mehta bowed once and then exited, followed by the orchestra.
Intervals in the middle of coherent symphonies may be unusual, but then there are few that long symphonies anyway, and intervals are customary in the opera, too, so why not?

I heard those stories about the 2nd symphony, not the 3rd.  That's why so many newer recordings of the 2nd symphony make the break after the first movement.

It simply says in the score (Dover edition, pg 224):

Hier folgt eine Pause von mindestens 5 Minuten.

So, are we talking about the 3rd or 2nd symphony?

[Bunny]

Okay, now I've done a search on this and found the BBC Mahler page which says that for the 2nd symphony there should be a pause between the 1st and 2nd movements of at least 5 minutes, and that there should be no breaks between the 3rd, 4th and 5th movements which should lead into each other.

There is also a link to the 3rd Symphony there.

For the 3rd symphony, Mahler also specified a longer break between the 1st and 2nd movements, but did not specify continuous play between the subsequent movements. 

In performance, I've never seen the 3rd performed without slight pauses between the movements whereas when I've seen the 2nd performed I've only noted a pause after the 1st movement. The rest of the symphony proceeded seamlessly to the finale.  The Gielen box set splits the second part of the 2nd symphony in the middle of part two which is extremely irksome (to say the least).

[PerfectWagnerite]

So, are we talking about the 3rd or 2nd symphony?

The 2nd.

The is no indication at the end of the first movement of #3. However, in my Dover score on the instrumentation page (before page 1) it says:

The symphony is divided into two parts. Part I consists of movement I, Part 2 consists of mvts II, III, IV, V, and VI. After Part I a long pause.

The above note is in English only and I don't know whether Mahler wrote that or it was subsequently added.