Shostakovich String Quartets

[jlaurson]

start at Page 20?

There is a page on the netwebs compiled by "onno van rijen" that I have open all the time      online.nl      ...   let me know if you can't find it

but it starts with

Beethoven+
Borodin '67-'72
Taneyev  -'78
Fitzwilliam ;76
Borodin '78-'83
Shostakovich '78-'86?

Brodsky'89
Manhattan'90

Borodin'90-'95
Eder                                               1/2  Hagen '94/'06
1/2 St.Petersburg/SONY'94-'95
1/2 Rubio/Globe
Debussy'98-'04?

Emerson
Sorrel'99-
St.Petersburg/Hyperion
Runio/Brilliant'02

1/2 Jerusalem
1/2 Aviv 'live'

Alexander'05/6
Rasumowsky'05/6
Danel'06

Pacifica
Mandlering
1/2 Morgaua

Borodin2020

Good man! Thanks very much, indeed.

That's a great leg up!

[San Antone]

Started listening to the Sorrel today.  I began with volume 2, which contains #3, 4, & 11.

[asin]B00003XB21[/asin]

I can't understand why I would want another cycle of these works; and yet something drives me on ...  Thankfully they are all available for streaming.

[Karl Henning]

I can't understand why I would want another cycle of these works; and yet something drives me on ...

My dear chap, you have a window onto snypsss's soul! 

[snyprrr]

Started listening to the Sorrel today.  I began with volume 2, which contains #3, 4, & 11.

[asin]B00003XB21[/asin]

I can't understand why I would want another cycle of these works; and yet something drives me on ...  Thankfully they are all available for streaming.

Actually, that is the ONE CD that I thought was their worst. I really liked their 4, but, certain movements of 3 and 11 ruined them for me. I think it was the slow movements... with 3 I think also the 2nd was extreeemely slow and the last two mvmts. seemed slow, and then with the 11th, the second to last movement was just too slow.

Sometimes, their strategy is just what is needed (like in No., but, in the more "normal" works they tend to drag out the slow movements past the point of tension, in 3, 6, 11, maybe 10,... please tell me if you can't hear that in 3 or 11.

However, I do agree with you that their presentation is maybe the very best. 12-14 are probably the best I've heard (especially 12), and 8,...

However, sometimes their overly luxurient(?) Chandos sound seems to swamp detail, like in No.7 where the concluding furious fugue seems to get gelled up with the auditorium ambience.

Do get the three issues with 12-14, and maybe their 5/15 (though their 15 is way too lively). I'd personally stay away from the 3/4/11 and maybe the 6/7/10,...

My dear chap, you have a window onto snypsss's soul! 

But I've travelled farther, and must declare a warning not to get too hypnotized by the Sorrel's sumptuousness. Again, when they're on (1-2, 4-5, 8, 12-14) they can beat ALL the competition, but when they take some of those slow movements way too slow (3, 6, 10) one really hears it as being too slow, especially in 6 and 10.


Karl, I did get that PointClassics Taneyev disc with 1/3/4 (1966,66,63), and, mm, the sound is Soviet-OK, and there are some outrageously fast passages (finale of No.1 is a bluuur), but I was unable to get overly excited. The finale of No.4 was refreshingly the opposite of the longer versions, exhibiting a bounce (like the finale of 10) that others gloss over with their slower tempos.


I also, and yes this would point to my "needs", I got the old Medici Op.110,... yes, that old thing that everyone's probably overlooked,...



OH, BTWWWWW!!!!- I DO DECLARE THAT THE KRONOS 8 HAS MUCH MUCH MORE GOOD STUFF THAN THE EMERSON. I WAS SHOCKED, but the Kronos deliver one of the best overall and do everything "more" than many. iN MY JOURNEY, THIS was one of the intereresting surprises that I thought I'd taken for granted (that the Kronos was going to suck). Bam!!

[snyprrr]

soooo,... does this mean there's going to be more traffic in the Thread??

[Karl Henning]

Oh, dear fellow, you are dreadfully mistaken!  I was horribly disappointed when I went back to the Kronos Qt recording of the Op.110 — unless you don't mean the one which was on the Black Angels album, and that they have since recorded it when they were better equipped?  That would almost be against their Mission statement, though . . . do it once, and now it's dead to us . . . oh, the shameless première whores!

[San Antone]

Actually, that is the ONE CD that I thought was their worst. I really liked their 4, but, certain movements of 3 and 11 ruined them for me. I think it was the slow movements... with 3 I think also the 2nd was extreeemely slow and the last two mvmts. seemed slow, and then with the 11th, the second to last movement was just too slow.

If this is their worst, then their cycle must be pretty darn good.  I haven't listened so closlely yet to voice an opinion concerning your dislike of their tempo in the slow movements, but am now eager to listen to the other volumes.

Up to now my go to sets were Danel, Pacifica and Takacs (brain fart, Bartok) Borodin.  Maybe Sorrel will join them, at least for some of the works.

Thanks for your comments.

[George]

soooo,... does this mean there's going to be more traffic in the Thread??

That would be a wonderful thing, for IMO Traffic doesn't get enough recognition these days.

[amw]

If this is their worst, then their cycle must be pretty darn good.  I haven't listened so closlely yet to voice an opinion concerning your dislike of their tempo in the slow movements, but am now eager to listen to the other volumes.

Their performances of No. 9 and No. 12 are excellent. No. 13 was a bit less impressive. I didn't listen to any of the others.

[Robert]

Actually, that is the ONE CD that I thought was their worst. I really liked their 4, but, certain movements of 3 and 11 ruined them for me. I think it was the slow movements... with 3 I think also the 2nd was extreeemely slow and the last two mvmts. seemed slow, and then with the 11th, the second to last movement was just too slow.

Sometimes, their strategy is just what is needed (like in No., but, in the more "normal" works they tend to drag out the slow movements past the point of tension, in 3, 6, 11, maybe 10,... please tell me if you can't hear that in 3 or 11.

However, I do agree with you that their presentation is maybe the very best. 12-14 are probably the best I've heard (especially 12), and 8,...

However, sometimes their overly luxurient(?) Chandos sound seems to swamp detail, like in No.7 where the concluding furious fugue seems to get gelled up with the auditorium ambience.

Do get the three issues with 12-14, and maybe their 5/15 (though their 15 is way too lively). I'd personally stay away from the 3/4/11 and maybe the 6/7/10,...

But I've travelled farther, and must declare a warning not to get too hypnotized by the Sorrel's sumptuousness. Again, when they're on (1-2, 4-5, 8, 12-14) they can beat ALL the competition, but when they take some of those slow movements way too slow (3, 6, 10) one really hears it as being too slow, especially in 6 and 10.


Karl, I did get that PointClassics Taneyev disc with 1/3/4 (1966,66,63), and, mm, the sound is Soviet-OK, and there are some outrageously fast passages (finale of No.1 is a bluuur), but I was unable to get overly excited. The finale of No.4 was refreshingly the opposite of the longer versions, exhibiting a bounce (like the finale of 10) that others gloss over with their slower tempos.


I also, and yes this would point to my "needs", I got the old Medici Op.110,... yes, that old thing that everyone's probably overlooked,...



OH, BTWWWWW!!!!- I DO DECLARE THAT THE KRONOS 8 HAS MUCH MUCH MORE GOOD STUFF THAN THE EMERSON. I WAS SHOCKED, but the Kronos deliver one of the best overall and do everything "more" than many. iN MY JOURNEY, THIS was one of the intereresting surprises that I thought I'd taken for granted (that the Kronos was going to suck). Bam!!

Are you talking Celibidache here??

[snyprrr]

Are you talking Celibidache here??

The only thing that clicks is the Kreutzer's 6:48 'Lento' from No.7, which is usually played 2:47-3:34. There appears not to be too many opportunities for Xtreme Slow Tempi in the SQs, though, it would be nice if someone did a  Cleibidache/Sanderling Op.110 and played it to the breaking point (with the 'Allegro molto' also being as-slow-as-possible),... the Sorrel are tops here...

If this is their worst, then their cycle must be pretty darn good.  I haven't listened so closlely yet to voice an opinion concerning your dislike of their tempo in the slow movements, but am now eager to listen to the other volumes.

Up to now my go to sets were Danel, Pacifica and Takacs (brain fart, Bartok) Borodin.  Maybe Sorrel will join them, at least for some of the works.

Thanks for your comments.

Their performances of No. 9 and No. 12 are excellent. No. 13 was a bit less impressive. I didn't listen to any of the others.

BUUUT- their 13 does have the same extreme aggression in those stabbing chords as does their 8... I'm a fan of most of the Modern 13s...

Again, their 8th has been noted by many as in a class of its own.

I took inspiration and took the Sorrel's 12 with me today- WOOOW, that 'Allegretto' is just staggeringly resplendent, every turn caught in Technicolor.

sanantonio,- everyone says every new Cycle is "The Best Sounding", and all that jazz, but, it seems openly obvious that the Chandos sound "environment" given to the Sorrel is like out of some Hollywood Fantasy,... I mean, we all know the type of sound Chandos is known for. lush lush lush

I don't like their layout, though. I'd rather have 12-14 on one disc,... but,... mm,... I Am keeping the volumes I don't like, so,... haha!!


And, I'll just open this can'o worms- think about the Sorrel,- four women working together- getting on the same cycle- ---- I wonder if I perceived certain days when they weren't synched-up?--- I mean, it's just a fact of life, but I certainly hear ... oh... ok.... I'll stop ... oy vey...

[snyprrr]

Oh, dear fellow, you are dreadfully mistaken!  I was horribly disappointed when I went back to the Kronos Qt recording of the Op.110 — unless you don't mean the one which was on the Black Angels album, and that they have since recorded it when they were better equipped?  That would almost be against their Mission statement, though . . . do it once, and now it's dead to us . . . oh, the shameless première whores!

Well, I just YT'd the other day, out of the blue, just after the Emerson, (like- wait, do I haaave to listen to the Kronos too??lolz)- and, as my head had been swimming with 8s all that day, I immediately perked up when I heard them. I was expecting dreck, but I was quite surprised by their involvement, Now, let me preface by saying I like Op.110 to be as pretentiously dramatic as possible. And, isn't it fairly safe to say that the Emerson are quite dry here? (hence, my disappointment with some of their choices (and, of course, their legendary 3rd person coolness))

So, since the Kronos don't opt for a slow tempo in mvmt.4, at least they make the chords sound like knocking (no one does the doomsday thuds like the Sorrel). I don't know, Karl, I know, I was expecting the Kronos to be full of themselves- and they are- but this SQ HAS to be played as a pretentious soundtrack- all the ones I've heard where they're "playing more of the music and less of the hype"- eh, that's bs- the music needs to be played flat-out, and with a Human Agenda-

I mean, Karl, isn't there the consensus amongst us (even you?) that Op.110 is pretty standard in the Emerson's hands (maybe except for the fast bit of course!!- which of course others have now done just as fast and brutal)?

I know, why am I getting all defensive over your shock? I'm shocked!! (that I found the Kronos... gulp... "definitive" for the time in which it came out... gulp...and that I didn't find the Emerson to be such a jump)


Anyhow, I just got the Medici's 8- they are the first Western recording of 8 after the Fitzzies... 1984? way before the DSCH craze... I've passed this CD up so many times, oy vey, haha (w/Debussy)...

anyhow...

still, there's so much more to Op.110 than what either the Kronos or Emerson deliver, right? I even counted the Manhattan and Brodsky as more involving than the Emerson... even the St.Petersburg/Hyperion rendition, I thought, came into direct competition with the Emerson (the St.Ps surprised me here)...


ON TO MORE RESEARCH!!

[snyprrr]

I heard there was only one or two versions of 110 in which the violinist "snips" off the end of that intro note- as if the "Voice of the Artist" was being snuffed out. Anyone? Everything I've heard has been various shades but nothing as dramatic as what I have recalled hearing at some point in the past.

[snyprrr]

The Medici's Op.110, from 1986, comes with a quite tight Nimbus ambience, not at all like the super auditoriums I have heard in other recordings. That tightness reduces the proceedings to a living room performance; the Medici are quite good throughout, except for some really tepid "doom knocks" in the 4th, which, frankly, can't be tolerated at this point. As much as I'd like to give them some credit, I'm going to give them a 72%, a C- if you will. In spite of some nice, woody tones, there's not much hear that would keep me coming back,... haven't even checked the Debussy.

[snyprrr]

Does anyone have the DSCH Journal 15, or know about the Praga discs that say they were recorded live in Prague but are actually just the same old recordings? I have here the Taneyev No.4 (along with Glinka 3, and PT2) which Praga claims is a Czech live broadcast from 1977, but, the DSCH Journal guy says it's just the regular Taneyev No.4 from the Melodiya Cycle (not the REAL live Taneyev No.4 from 1963 which is on the Leningrad Masters/Point label).

So, my question is: Is there reverb added to this Praga, or audience noise? There is a very pleasing ambience, but I do recall the Taneyev were produced fairly well, so, it could just be the regular Melodiya ambience and not some added reverb?

Anyone?

btw- the Glinka Op.73, which i believe iIS live, IS ONE OF THE VERY BEST, even though it is highly underpowered, it still does everything wonderfully!

[snyprrr]

Does anyone have the DSCH Journal 15, or know about the Praga discs that say they were recorded live in Prague but are actually just the same old recordings? I have here the Taneyev No.4 (along with Glinka 3, and PT2) which Praga claims is a Czech live broadcast from 1977, but, the DSCH Journal guy says it's just the regular Taneyev No.4 from the Melodiya Cycle (not the REAL live Taneyev No.4 from 1963 which is on the Leningrad Masters/Point label).

So, my question is: Is there reverb added to this Praga, or audience noise? There is a very pleasing ambience, but I do recall the Taneyev were produced fairly well, so, it could just be the regular Melodiya ambience and not some added reverb?

Anyone?

btw- the Glinka Op.73, which i believe iIS live, IS ONE OF THE VERY BEST, even though it is highly underpowered, it still does everything wonderfully!

anyone?

[Karl Henning]

My eye fell upon this lovely box again this morning . . . .

[snyprrr]

1 - Borodin'95
     St. Petersburg/SONY
     Borodin'15
     Emerson 'live'
     Sorrel
     Alexander

     Brodsky
     Fitzwilliam
     Taneyev'66 'live'
     Borodin'67


2 - Verlaine                                                                                  (Takacz?2015-Hyperion)
     Zapolski
      Fitzwilliam
     Borodin'91
     Borodin'67
     Borodin'83
     St. Petersburg/Hyperion
     Georgian State
     St. Petersburg/SONY             
     Sorrel          
     Brodsky
     Emerson 'live'
     Moyzes
     Eder
     Alexander

3 - Glinka'77 'live'
     Taneyev'66 'live'
     Georgian State
     Borodin'95
     Borodin'67
     Borodin'84
     Acies
     St. Petersburg/SONY
    St.Lawrence
     Brodsky
     META4
     Allegri
     Amati
     Orlando
     Eder
     Hagen
     Emerson 'live'
     St.Petersburg/Hyperion
     Manhattan/Centaur
     Alexander

     Fitzwilliam
     Cailin
     Philharmonia/Thorofon
     Sorrel
     Beethoven 'Premiere Recording'

4 - Kreutzer
      META4   
      Moyzes
      (Eder)
      (Rubio/Globe)
      Sorrel                 
      St. Peterdburg/SONY
      Taneyev'72
      Taneyev'63 'live'
      Borodin'83
      Borodin'67

      Manhattan
      St.Petersburg/Hyperion
      Fitzwilliam
      Alexander
      Brodsky
      Emerson 'live'

5 - Atrium 'live'
     Acies
     St.Petersburg/SONY
     St.Petersburg/Hyperion
     Eder
     Emerson 'live'
     Manhattan                                 
     Sorrel

     Borodin'84
     Fitzwilliam

     Brodsky
     Taneyev
     Navarra
     Alexander
     Borodin'67
     Beethoven

6 - St.Petersburg/Hyperion                         
     Borodin'81 'live'
     Manhattan/Centaur
     Borodin'67
     Manhattan/ESS.A.Y.
     Emerson 'live'
     Sorrel
     Orlando
     Alexander
     Fitzwilliam
     Brodsky

     Beethoven


7 - St. Petersburg/SONY
     Borodin'67
     Hagen
     St. Petersburg/Hyperion
     Kreutzer
     Manhattan
     Brodsky                                   
     Borodin'83
     Borodin'95
     St.Lawrence
     Emerson 'live'
     Amati
     Fitzwilliam
     Sorrel
     META4
     Alexander

     Philharmonia

8 - Sorrel
     Borodin'67
     St. Petersburg/Hyperion
     Jerusalem 'live'/BBC
     Fitzwilliam
     Borodin'95

    Manhattan/ESS.A.Y.
    Brodsky
    St.Lawrence

     Manhattan/Centaur
     Kronos
     Borodin'15
     Borodin'78
     Hagen
     Kreutzer
     Aviv
     Emerson 'live'
     Medici

9 - Gosteleradio
     Aviv
     Borodin'81 'live'
     Borodin'67
     Brodsky                                          
     St. Petersburg/Hyperion
     Emerson 'live'
     Manhattan
     Sorrel
     Fitzwilliam

10 - Borodin'67
       Fitzwilliam
       Brodsky
       Kopelman
       St. Petersburg/Hyperion                                                                                     
       Borodin'81
       Manhattan/Centaur
       Manhattan/ESS.A.Y.
       Emerson 'live'

       Sorrel

11 - Vogler                                                                                                          (Danel)
       Borodin'67
       Fitzwilliam
       Brodsky                                                                                                    (Hagen)
       Emerson 'live'
       St.Petersburg/Hyperion

       Borodin'81
       Sorrel

12 - Sorrel     
       Shostakovich   
       Fitzwilliam 
       Taneyev       
       Emerson 'live'                                                                                                                                                       (Debussy)
       Amati
       Borodin'83
       Borodin'95                                   
       Eder

      Brodsky
       St. Petersburg/Hyperion
     Philharmonia
       Borodin'67
       

13 - Kremer/Lockenhaus Edition-ECM 'live' '84
       Sorrel
       St.Petersburg
       Shostakovich
       Brodsky                                                                                                      (Aviv)
       Emerson 'live'

       Borodin'67
       Borodin'81
       Fitzwilliam
     

14 - Kremer/Lockenhaus Edition-ECM 'live' '84    
      Borodin'15      
      Fitzwilliam
      Glinka 'live' '76                                             
      Taneyev

      Shostakovich'88
      Borodin'81   
      Eder

      Sorrel
      Brodsky

      Emerson 'live'
      St.Petersburg/Hyperion                                                                                (Mandelring)

15 - Kagan-Zhislin-Bashmet-Gutman 'live'' '82
       Borodin'95
      Beethoven
       Fitzwilliam
       Eder
       Brodsky
       Emerson 'live'
       Sorrel     
       St.Petersburg/Hyperion                                                                                       
       Kremer-Daniels-Kashkashian-Ma 'live' '86/SONY                                            (Mandelring)

[Karl Henning]

What does the strike-through of the Kremer-Daniels-Kashkashian-Ma/SONY signify? TIA 

[snyprrr]

What does the strike-through of the Kremer-Daniels-Kashkashian-Ma/SONY signify? TIA 

I find it uncompetitive, which I regret saying, since I expected - but wait!- here's the kicker: the Kagan-Bashmet-Gutman performance is everything you wanted the Kremer to be- 1st movement lasts 15 minutes!! Kremer's team has no creaking tonal death creaks- they just play it somewhat 'lovingly' which does nothing t(out of the ordinary) to give this disjointed music that cold white feeling. Maybe I'm wrong- no, I'm not. You must try either Borodin'95 or the Kagan or the Beethoven- I'm really having trouble finding a digital 15th that sounds creepy enough-

The Kagan is really the best I've heard. At least it's in a class by itself, but, no one today is taking any chances with 15, for some reason.

Kagan is 82- Kremer is 86-- both 'live'--night and day