What were you listening to? (CLOSED)

[Coopmv]

Last night I listened to a number of things - including Monteverdi, Kodaly & Schutz, but I'll talk about these two:

Antoine BRUMEL
Mass for 12 voices, "Et Ecce Terrae Motus" (with three organs and brass accompaniment)
Dominique Visse (Conductor), Ensemble Clément Janequin, Les Sacqueboutiers de Toulouse
Harmonia Mundi

Ariel RAMIREZ
Misa Criolla (arr. J. G. Segade & others)
Joseph Holt (Conductor), Manuel Melendez (tenor), José Sacin (tenor), Pablo Talamante (tenor)
The Choral Arts Society of Washington, with instrumental ensemble
Naxos


These two masses are really different, but both are great. I borrowed the Brumel from the library & hadn't heard it in 15 years. He was a Renaissance composer whose dates are c.1460 - 1515. He started his career as a choirboy at Chartres Cathedral and ended it working conducting a choir in Italy. This mass is his most significant work, and both in terms of the large forces used and the length and complexity of the work, nothing can match it from that time except Tallis' Spem in alium (a masterpiece that I haven't heard yet). Complexity is the word with this work. Some parts come across as a "wall of sound" (like the music of Brumel's teacher Josquin des Prez), but Brumel also builds things up gradually for maximum effect. Take the concluding Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) which is in three parts. The first is choir only, in the second the brass comes in, and in the third the organs. It's one of the most amazing climaxes you're likely to ever hear. It's certainly just as sophisticated (if not more) as anything I've heard from more contemporary composers. I'm actually amazed at how Brumel could get this all down on the page, all of this complexity (I mean - THREE organs!). It's simply staggering. This work was published in the 1500's & we are lucky to have a full copy of the score. This work remained popular even after Brumel's death - the great Lassus, a composer of the next generation, was to direct a number of performances of it in Germany.

If Brumel's mass is amazing because he managed to get things down, Ariel Ramirez's mass is great because he didn't get things down and left a lot of things open. Misa Criolla is based on the Hispanic folk music of Latin America, and like that music, a lot of it is improvised. There's even a cadenza for the percussionist! The work needs to be arranged by someone else to "fit" the specific musicians who perform it. This version has a chamber choir of 100, three tenor soloists and an instrumental ensemble of traditional Latin American instruments made up of 8 musicians, some playing multiple instruments. Technical considerations aside, it is a very exhuberant and life affirming work. The optimistic Gloria can be very fetching. I just found this image on amazon, and there some idiot reviewer rubbishes this performance for not being as good as the 1960's recording. This guy is a fool - doesn't he know that this work can be interpreted very flexibly - even more flexibly than other classical works (the improvisation). What a nobhead  ...

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Nice to see another member who is into early music besides Q and myself ...

[Coopmv]

Now playing the following CD from my Bach collection ...

[DavidW]

Nice to see another member who is into early music besides Q and myself ...

Oh don't forget Bogey!   You guys should set up an early music corner.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Brahms wrote that. The Serenades. Well, that's a Divertimento-like as he gets, anyway.

You might get an argument from the Hungarian Dances!

[haydnguy]

I just opened up the box and this popped out!! First listen now. Initial reaction is GORGEOUS!

[haydnguy]

Now playing CD4 - Preludes from this set for a first listen ...

Coop, would be interested in your opinion on Howard Shelley. The jury is still out with me but it's about 6-4 against. 

[Mirror Image]

Now:

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Listening to the Symphony No. 7. Let the self-pity fest begin! Anyway, incredible symphony and the performance is one of the best I've heard of this symphony (so far). I still haven't heard Dorati's recording.

[Mirror Image]

A little Arvo Part for the night:



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Listening to the ethereal Cantus in Memoriam of Benjamin Britten.

[haydnguy]

A little Arvo Part for the night:

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Listening to the ethereal Cantus in Memoriam of Benjamin Britten.

Nice, M.I.!!

[Mirror Image]

Nice, M.I.!!

Yes, this is an amazing recording. One of my favorites. So haydnguy how have you been? I haven't spoken to you in quite some time.

[haydnguy]

Yes, this is an amazing recording. One of my favorites. So haydnguy how have you been? I haven't spoken to you in quite some time.

Oh, hanging in there. My budget went through a recession like the rest of the country but it seems to be rebounding. Have been buying again!!!

[Mirror Image]

Oh, hanging in there. My budget went through a recession like the rest of the country but it seems to be rebounding. Have been buying again!!!

Good to hear my friend! Keep buying those CDs. I actually haven't been buying as much as I used to, wait a minute, that's a lie!

[Mirror Image]

Now:

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Listening to A Celtic Symphony. Beautiful.

[haydnguy]

Now:

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Listening to A Celtic Symphony. Beautiful.

That's another gorgeous one! I'm going to have to put that on my "to play" list. 

[Sid]

Agree with the general idea of this post but - did Walton say that? I'd be stunned. Walton's orchestration has so little in common with that of Brahms, and that is particularly true of the the sultry Mediterranean sonorities of his Violin Concerto I'd think.

I was thinking more of Walton's viola concerto - the second version (I think?). I've read that he pared down the orchestration to make it a bit leaner, like Brahms' string concertos. I personally think that Walton's other 2 string concertos do have an element of Brahms, but it's more subtle. I think it also depends on how they're played, just like all of these things, I guess. Last year I saw a performance of Brahms' violin concerto played by a chamber orchestra. It was played by the Metropolitan Chamber Orchestra of Sydney under Sarah Grace Williams and the violinist was Dr Susan Collins. This performance, with the smaller orchestra, definitely sounded less "crowded" and somewhat clearer than other recorded versions I've heard with larger forces for accompaniment. So maybe that experience was in my mind a bit as well, when I compared Walton's string concertos with those of Brahms...

[Mirror Image]

That's another gorgeous one! I'm going to have to put that on my "to play" list. 

Ha! I'm about to revisit Berg's VC (w/ Mutter/Levine/CSO) to close out the night.

Now playing:



Such a journey of sadness and despair as this work is Berg's requiem in many ways.

[Sid]

Nice to see another member who is into early music besides Q and myself ...

Well, I've only kind of started (on the collecting side) recently, but I've loved the early music repertoire for many years. I remember as a teenager going to mass on Sundays here in Sydney where things like Palestrina & Byrd were sung. I stopped going to mass as a late teenager (had other things on my mind/plate) but I went back this Easter (Maundy Thursday) & they were singing the same stuff! The Palestrina gloria was magnificent, and it included the full compliment of organ and church bells. I also went to a concert last year of a capella songs by Monteverdi, Schutz and also modern masters like Whitacre & Lauridsen. The choir was Coro Innominata of Sydney. A friend went to see the Monteverdi Vespers last year and she said it was magnificent. I was a bit daunted by the complexity of these works (same as formerly with the Beethoven late quartets). I'm sorry I missed the Vespers, but I purchases a recording recently, and also borrowed another set from the library. That was like three weeks ago and it was like an epiphany. Today I just got some Schutz, more Monteverdi (arias) and also some Byzantine chants.

I'm basically awed by what these guys did. They were very emotional men (& women - not forgetting Hildegard!). They were great innovators, craftsmen, geniuses all. I particularly love how they set the original Latin texts, not only their sensitivity and perfection in bringing the words to life, but also in how they were working with minimal resources. They produced maximum effect from the barest of the essentials. & the complexity and sophistication of their music can easily rival anything that was produced later, right up to our own time.

So you'll definitely see me listening to more early music stuff. I also like chamber music, and what they did was basically a precursor to that. I think that they basically predicted all the major trends that were to come centuries later. I mean, man!, I can hear so much in Monteverdi, he's made me better appreciate our modern masters.

I could go on & on but won't bore you. Needless to say, those early memories of hearing Palestrina and other's genius music in church has been reinvigorated now, about 15 years later. It's just a joy!...

[Luke]

I was thinking more of Walton's viola concerto - the second version (I think?). I've read that he pared down the orchestration to make it a bit leaner, like Brahms' string concertos. I personally think that Walton's other 2 string concertos do have an element of Brahms, but it's more subtle. I think it also depends on how they're played, just like all of these things, I guess. Last year I saw a performance of Brahms' violin concerto played by a chamber orchestra. It was played by the Metropolitan Chamber Orchestra of Sydney under Sarah Grace Williams and the violinist was Dr Susan Collins. This performance, with the smaller orchestra, definitely sounded less "crowded" and somewhat clearer than other recorded versions I've heard with larger forces for accompaniment. So maybe that experience was in my mind a bit as well, when I compared Walton's string concertos with those of Brahms...

The orchestration of the Walton Viola Concerto was reduced a little in the second version, but the technique Walton uses, the things he askes his players to do, the combinations of colours he deploys - they don't have anything to do with the way Brahms does things.

The Walton Viola Concerto was modelled on the Prokofiev 1st Violin Concerto more than anything else (and not just in the obviously parallel openings) - that's more the direction Walton looked for influence, really.

[Florestan]

Some delicious French bon-bons

Victor Masse - Overture to "Les noces de Jeanette"
Jacques Offenbach - Overture to "Pepito"
Jacques Lecocq - Overture to "Le barbier de Trouville"
Louis Varney - Overture to "Les mousquetaires au couvent"

[Lethevich]