What were you listening to? (CLOSED)

[Sid]

The orchestration of the Walton Viola Concerto was reduced a little in the second version, but the technique Walton uses, the things he askes his players to do, the combinations of colours he deploys - they don't have anything to do with the way Brahms does things.

Well I read about the influence of Brahms on Walton in the liner notes of the recording of the Viola Concerto which I borrowed. I can't remember which recording it was. It sounds like you're a musician, you have the trained knowledge, so I'm not saying you're wrong regarding specific technical things. But I think that there's more to these kinds of things than just technique (which is of course important). There is the overall vibe of the piece, as well as the kind of philosophical side. I'd at least say that the Viola Concerto has more to do with Brahms' string concertos rather than say Tchaikovsky's.

The Walton Viola Concerto was modelled on the Prokofiev 1st Violin Concerto more than anything else (and not just in the obviously parallel openings) - that's more the direction Walton looked for influence, really.

This is true, the influence of Prokofiev is more obvious, no-one can argue with that (it's basically fact). The parallels with Brahms are not as strong, but still there in the overall scheme of things (the big picture), imo. But maybe I'm just kind of overhyping that.

In any case, it doesn't really matter whether Brahms influenced Walton or not, what is more important is to recognise Brahms as the true innovator that he was. Eg. the length and complexity of (again) his concertos in particular where basically on par with what Bruckner was doing in the symphonic realm. & like Bruckner, there was very little flamboyance or brilliance in these concertos just for the sake of "showing off." If nothing else, these two men's relative restraint in an era of much that kind of bordered on hyperbole was a thing that set them apart. Brahms was much more than just a Romantic with a Classical veneer, as some people still like to think of him. It's fair enough to say that he was the successor of Beethoven, but in my eyes, he was much more than that...

[Sergeant Rock]

Warmed up with the Bach orchestrations by Schoenberg, Craft conducting the Philharmonia, and listening now to the Serenade Op.24




Sarge

[Luke]

@ Sid

Oh, I agree about the status of Brahms. Not the slightest doubt about that at all. Those who see him as a traditional, classicizing force misunderstand him badly - but then I doubt many do see him that way any longer. Brahms was Brahms - one of the most perfect musicians who ever lived, a man who looked backwards, forwards, sideways, who appreciated quality wherever he found in all these dimensions (it's worth remembering, for example, that whilst Brahms hated the Wagner school, he had no doubts about the genius of Wagner himself, though he certainly did about Bruckner). It's quality that was important to Brahms and it's quality that is part of why Brahms was such a fantastic composer. He brooked no compromises, no half measure, in other art or in his own. It's a very extreme art in that way, his music.

[Sid]

@ Luke - you put things very well there re Brahms. I think I'll need to print that last post for future reference, because it expresses my opinions of the man very well. I'd add that I have read that Brahms actually admired Bruckner's 6th symphony, but that may have been all he liked from him. Maybe the 6th's lighter and more mellow qualities appealed to Brahms? I'm not sure, all I can tell you that it was stated in liner notes of a recording of that work on the Australian Eloquence budget label (VPO/Horst Stein). I think that Brahms was quite emotional and flexible. He knew quality when he saw it. He was a great friend and admirer of J. Strauss II, who dedicated a waltz or two to him. Brahms complemented Strauss on the "Blue Danube" waltz - he said he would have been very proud to have composed that himself. The man obviously had a jovial and more generous side, although he could be very blunt with people as well. But I think that his distaste for Wagner was more of a philosophical kind of thing rather than about the quality of Wagner's music (as you say). I actually like Wagner equally to Brahms, but more his smaller scale works like the Siegfried Idyll & Wesendock Lieder which are just perfection, imo. I have heard Tannhauser & Gotterdamerung in full, they are undoubtedly impressive, but I'm not a huge fan of opera and kind of wish he would have put down more non-operatic stuff as well. But that's another story...

[karlhenning]

First listen! (And only the second Koechlin piece I've ever listened to.)

Koechlin
Les heures persanes, Opus 65 (1913-19)
Kathryn Stott

[asin]B00008WQBA[/asin]

[karlhenning]

First listen! (And only the second Koechlin piece I've ever listened to.)

Koechlin
Les heures persanes, Opus 65 (1913-19)
Kathryn Stott

[asin]B00008WQBA[/asin]

And beauteous listening for another misty Boston morning it is!

[Sergeant Rock]

I think this is going to be an Arnie afternoon. Listening now to Pelleas und Melisande, Thielemann conducting




Sarge

[Florestan]

Haydn

Piano Trios 1, 2, 4, 5

BAT

[Sergeant Rock]

And beauteous listening for another misty Boston morning it is!

Hey, Karl. It's another mild and sunny day in the Rhine Valley. I should be outside enjoying it but Arnie is compelling me to stay indoors 


Sarge

[karlhenning]

I think this is going to be an Arnie afternoon.

I love it when that happens, Sarge!

[karlhenning]

Thread duty . . . on the Sansa Fuze while riding in:

Игорь Фëдорович [ Igor Fyodorovich (Stravinsky) ]
ΑΓΩΝ
Southwest German Radio Symphony
Hans Rosbaud

[Lethevich]

.[asin]B00004U2KM[/asin]

An interesting disc - I hadn't realised that Bax wrote enough chamber pieces including harp to fill an entire programme, and it's an inspired idea to couple them this way.

[not edward]

Late Haydn quartets--simply glorious stuff.

[asin]B0007UXXOS[/asin]

[Sergeant Rock]

Schoenberg Violin Concerto played by Hilary Hahn




Sarge

[karlhenning]

Dallapiccola
Three Questions with Two Answers (1962-63)
BBC Phil
Noseda

[asin]B002VFCE7Y[/asin]

[not edward]

Dallapiccola
Three Questions with Two Answers (1962-63)
BBC Phil
Noseda

That's a piece I really need to revisit--I have the old Pesko recording on Warner Fonit (coupled with some Maderna). Any opinion on the performances on the newer Chandos? The coupling is very appealing to me; I don't have any of the pieces there.

[karlhenning]

That's a piece I really need to revisit--I have the old Pesko recording on Warner Fonit (coupled with some Maderna). Any opinion on the performances on the newer Chandos? The coupling is very appealing to me; I don't have any of the pieces there.

Ethereal and delicate, nervy when it needs to be. It's a beauty, Edward!

[Sergeant Rock]

Schoenberg 5 Orchesterstücke Op.16, Levine and the Berlin Phil




Sarge

[karlhenning]

Dallapiccola
Piccola musica notturna (1954)
BBC Phil
Noseda

[asin]B000632POU[/asin]

[karlhenning]

Again . . . probably just have time for Pars prima just at present, though I won't want to stop the ride, I am sure:

[asin]B000XHBMO8[/asin]