Toch Talk

[SonicMan46]

Toch TTT! after a year in limbo! 

Up to my Toch collection, small at 7 discs (listed at the bottom) - just went through this thread and at first seems to not be much love for this American immigrant composer, then toward the last few years, some positive vibes!   

I've just listened to the Cantata of the Bitter Herbs & Jephta - Symphony No. 5 and enjoy both - now on the Tanze-Suite which I also like - will have to reacquaint myself w/ the SQs & other Symphonies (has been a while) - but just curious if opinions may have changed for this interesting composer? 

I was thinking of adding another disc and not a whole lot more available on Amazon USA - some shown below - comments appreciated - thanks.  Dave

   

[Daverz]

Yesterday's mini Tochapalooza: 

Symphony No. 7
Tanz-Suite
String Quartet No. 13







Symphony No. 7 is a very beautiful work.  A fitting final work in the symphony cycle. 

The Tanz-Suite is great fun.  If you like Hindemith's cheekier works from the 1920s, you love this.

The String Quartet No. 13 is a darker work, full of Viennese weltschmertz and grotesquerie. 

[Karl Henning]

Yesterday's mini Tochapalooza: 

Symphony No. 7
Tanz-Suite
String Quartet No. 13







Symphony No. 7 is a very beautiful work.  A fitting final work in the symphony cycle. 

The Tanz-Suite is great fun.  If you like Hindemith's cheekier works from the 1920s, you love this.

The String Quartet No. 13 is a darker work, full of Viennese weltschmertz and grotesquerie. 

Nice! I need to revisit the symphonies ... and high time I looked into the quartets!

[Spotted Horses]

Nice! I need to revisit the symphonies ... and high time I looked into the quartets!

Pretty much the same here (trying remember if I have the quartets). My notes seem to indicate I was not too taken with the Toch symphonies I listened to some years ago, but felt the performances were an issue; when I compared one symphony with a Steinberg recording my reaction was much improved. But I guess there are not many alternatives to the Francis cycle on cpo.

[Daverz]

Pretty much the same here (trying remember if I have the quartets). My notes seem to indicate I was not too taken with the Toch symphonies I listened to some years ago, but felt the performances were an issue; when I compared one symphony with a Steinberg recording my reaction was much improved. But I guess there are not many alternatives to the Francis cycle on cpo.

The earlier recordings in the CPO cycle, including that of No. 3, have a very resonant acoustic.  And Steinberg's experience with conducting Toch's music went back decades by the time of his recording of the Symphony No. 3.

The sonics in No. 7 are ideal and the conducting seems sympathetic, to my ears. 

[Spotted Horses]

The earlier recordings in the CPO cycle, including that of No. 3, have a very resonant acoustic.  And Steinberg's experience with conducting Toch's music went back decades by the time of his recording of the Symphony No. 3.

The sonics in No. 7 are ideal and the conducting seems sympathetic, to my ears.

Looking at my notes, I seem to have listened to Symphonies 2, 3, 6, 7. I noticed the same thing about the 2nd, and 3rd symphonies, recording too reverberant and distant, although I liked the music. For the 6th and 7th, I seem to have found the audio issues solved, but didn't like the music, too shrill, and bright. Whether that is attributable to the audio, performance or the actual music, I'm not sure. I also didn't have a good reaction to the dance suite. In any case, I'm due to revisit, one of these days.

[Symphonic Addict]

This revival will surely touch Toch!

The first two symphonies end with striking passages for timpani, I'd like more composers would have used them with more exploitation.

The Piano Concerto, String Quartets are also favorite of mine.

[Cato]

I had started a Toch Topic on GMG 1.0 and Karl restarted it for the new version: here is what I wrote 14 years ago and it still applies!

Greetings!

Cato's here, so everybody get off the bar and get on the wall!   

Ernst Toch is highly recommended: in my earlier, apparently lost writings here, I reviewed all the symphonies.

My Internet circumstances are not the best right now: allow me to summarize quickly that Toch follows a more tuneful path, somewhat less stressful path than e.g. Karl Amadeus Hartmann, but a path no less impressive in its own way!

The clarity of Toch's counterpoint and the expressivity of the lines I have always found amazing.  On this point the String Quartets are not to be forgotten!

I have tried the Internet Archives and cannot find the original Toch Talk with my reviews of the symphonies, so perhaps it is time to revisit the and write new reviews! 

[Cato]

For those who do not care for the CPO recordings, try this:

https://www.youtube.com/v/VFAwuHN6b_Y

[Maestro267]

The resurrection of this thread has inspired me to revisit the symphonies. I'd already formed quite a fondness for No. 1 in particular, which is the one I'm currently listening to now.

[Mirror Image]

Zowie...I just realized I do like some Toch. This recording in particular:



I've got the CPO set of SQs (incomplete set of course) and I haven't heard any of these yet. So perhaps there's some hope for me yet with Toch? I suppose my reaction to the symphonies tainted my view of Toch as a composer overall. The symphonies are tough nuts for me, because I don't think the CPO set (w/ Alun Francis) is as focused sonically as it could've been. So the jury is still out for me and the symphonies. I'll definitely try the chamber works, though, and probably revisit that New World recording pictured above.

[Karl Henning]

The resurrection of this thread has inspired me to revisit the symphonies. I'd already formed quite a fondness for No. 1 in particular, which is the one I'm currently listening to now.

I especially like the narrative use of snare drum and xylophone. Certainly going to spend some more time with this 'un.

[Maestro267]

Re. Symphony No. 1: It seems to have several of the memorable moments for me that I remember from these symphonies. The end of the first movement with that cymbal roll over a chord that seems to go on for an eternity racketing up the tension before a quiet gong stroke releases it and ends the movement. And the end of the finale when D major finally arrives and what definitely sounds like two timpani rather than one. You can hear the second one rolling in the background while the first does that rhythmic thing. Timp 1 cuts out a little bit before 2 as well so that's another sign.

[Mirror Image]

Revisited Toch's Symphony No. 1 earlier this morning and what a terrible piece. Sorry, but no dice for Toch in this work. Unimaginative and texturally/atmospherically dull from start to finish. Toch couldn't carry Hindemith's lunchbox and Schoenberg would eat him for breakfast. I'm actually scared to even move onto Symphony No. 2 at this juncture.

[Symphonic Addict]

Revisited Toch's Symphony No. 1 earlier this morning and what a terrible piece. Sorry, but no dice for Toch in this work. Unimaginative and texturally/atmospherically dull from start to finish. Toch couldn't carry Hindemith's lunchbox and Schoenberg would eat him for breakfast. I'm actually scared to even move onto Symphony No. 2 at this juncture.

I'm glad to disagree here with you. 

I consider it a fascinating piece, and one that demands listener's full attention.

[Mirror Image]

I'm glad to disagree here with you. 

I consider it a fascinating piece, and one that demands listener's full attention.

I tried to pay attention. I really did. It's just that I was so bored by this symphony that I dozed off, but when I awoke, I realized it didn't really matter as it sounded like I was listening to the same section of music before I had fallen asleep.

[bhodges]

The resurrection of this thread has inspired me to revisit the symphonies. I'd already formed quite a fondness for No. 1 in particular, which is the one I'm currently listening to now.

I especially like the narrative use of snare drum and xylophone. Certainly going to spend some more time with this 'un.

I consider it a fascinating piece, and one that demands listener's full attention.

Listening for the first time (Rundfunk-Sinfonieorchester Berlin with Alun Francis), and so far, definitely fascinating. The orchestration is quite unusual (yes, snare drum, xylophone -- and that celeste!), and as one reviewer noted, not unlike Hindemith or Martinů in his harmonies. The CPO sound is fabulous. I would love to hear this live, but don't recall ever seeing a Toch symphony on a program here in the U.S.

--Bruce

[Karl Henning]

I'm glad to disagree here with you. 

I consider it a fascinating piece, and one that demands listener's full attention.

Spot on!

[Spotted Horses]

The Toch Talk has made me curious, and I decided to return to Toch despite my earlier less than enthusiastic reaction. I've started with the Symphony No 1. (I was a little surprised to find it is a work of Toch's maturity, not an early work.) I am generally positively impressed. The one issue I have is that there is a lot of music in this work for large orchestra which has a diaphanous chamber music texture and the audio engineering makes it sound a bit wan, the sound only blossoms in a satisfactory way in the forceful passages. I would prefer a more in-your-face soundstage. The forceful passages can be quite impressive, such as the close of the piece. Generally the music doesn't clobber you over the head, but there is always something interesting going on.

I discovered I do not have the string quartets, and my order with momox shop was summarily canceled because they don't have it in stock. (Why did they list it then?) I've decided to get volume I, at least, as a lossless download from Presto.

[SonicMan46]

WOW!  I brought this thread TTT on July 8 and what a response, nearly all positive! 

At the moment, Susan & I are on a short 'cool' North Carolina mountain vacation so won't be posting much until the weekend, BUT before departure I listened to all of my 'small' Toch collection (listed previously and most symphonies and SQs) and enjoyed - quirky mixture of 20th century w/ the past; did not order any new CDs but the piano concerto recording is certainly a possibility (listen to it on Spotify), and am still curious about the solo piano CD posted earlier - will check Spotify?  Dave