The Karajan Legacy (recordings)

[Dr. Dread]

Yes, but I'd point out that Rubinstein refusing to play with him is a very different matter from you or I buying a CD in 2009.  Karajan was clearly not a saint, but he was dead by the time I started buying CDs, as are the vast majority of those "Good Germans" talked about in Daniel Goldhagen's grossly oversimplified and poorly argued book.  The OP was trying to talk about Karajan's music, which can be reasonably viewed outside this whole question.  Remember, by purchasing a Karajan CD, you aren't supporting an evil old Nazi, you are supporting an evil international music conglomerate.  Get your evils straight.  

It's never as simple as you read about in books. I just bought a fat Karajan box and I'm keeping it.

[Dr. Dread]

What would Jesus do?

[jwinter]

What would Jesus do?

Buy Karajan's Bach B Minor Mass, obviously. 

[Renfield]

Buy Karajan's Bach B Minor Mass, obviously. 

But also make sure he got the EMI, I'd hope!

[jwinter]

But also make sure he got the EMI, I'd hope!

Actually, I like the DG -- if you're gonna do it, DO IT, man.

Ooops, sorry, didn't mean to discuss Karajan's music!  Sorry for interrupting the thread!

[Superhorn]

   Karajan was not a "perfect" conductor", but there has never been any such creature,nor will there ever be.
  However, he was in my humble opinion, a genuinely great one, and at his best, his recordings(I unfortunately never had the opportunity to to attend one of his live performances), can be absolutely enthralling.
One poster claimed that the lower brass in Karajan recordings were too faint,but this may have been due to the recorded sound in some cases.
  Nor were his performances inevitably merely smooth and glossy.
  They could be quite crisp and incisive too. If any conductor was guilty of excessive smoothness and superficial glossiness,it was Ormandy, in my opinion, although he could be very good in some repertoire,particularly Russian music.
  His Wagner, Bruckner and Richard Strauss in particular, were truly magnificent, and he was at home in a wide variety of repertoire.
 

[prémont]

Buy Karajan's Bach B Minor Mass, obviously. 

Jesus was a man with many passions, he would without any doubt have acquired all existing recordings of the Matthäuspassion as well as of the Johannespassion.  0:)

[Dr. Dread]

Jesus was a man with many passions, he would without any doubt have acquired all existing recordings of the Matthäuspassion as well as of the Johannespassion.

He didn't have many possessions. Maybe he'd catch a concert.

[Coopmv]

   Karajan was not a "perfect" conductor", but there has never been any such creature,nor will there ever be.
  However, he was in my humble opinion, a genuinely great one, and at his best, his recordings(I unfortunately never had the opportunity to to attend one of his live performances), can be absolutely enthralling.
One poster claimed that the lower brass in Karajan recordings were too faint,but this may have been due to the recorded sound in some cases.
  Nor were his performances inevitably merely smooth and glossy.
  They could be quite crisp and incisive too. If any conductor was guilty of excessive smoothness and superficial glossiness,it was Ormandy, in my opinion, although he could be very good in some repertoire,particularly Russian music.
  His Wagner, Bruckner and Richard Strauss in particular, were truly magnificent, and he was at home in a wide variety of repertoire.
 

The following CD-set is no doubt one of the worst by Karajan/BPO, the tempo is kind of messed up IMO ...

I picked up this set from Tower Records back in the 90's.  I believe this set is also kind of rare.

[imperfection]

Anybody have opinions on the Mahler 6th? I heard some say it's one of the best things he's done and some others criticize it as being too "cool" and "businessman-like". 

[Que]

Anybody have opinions on the Mahler 6th? I heard some say it's one of the best things he's done and some others criticize it as being too "cool" and "businessman-like". 

Much truth in both comments, I would say. One of the few Karajan recordings I like: his Brucknerian approach fits this most Brucknerian of Mahler's symphonies. Conceptually tightly nit and the execution is perfectly controlled, but rather "merciless" and unsentimental because of it. I guess some of the typical Mahlerian characteristics get lost "in translation"...

Q

[Renfield]

Conceptually tightly nit and the execution is perfectly controlled, but rather "merciless" and unsentimental because of it. I guess some of the typical Mahlerian characteristics get lost "in translation"...

I think that's a fair assessment. And that mercilessness, interspersed with passages of almost 'unnatural' beauty, are mainly why Karajan's Mahler 6th is my own top pick for the symphony. However, it is definitely a fact that the 'humanitarian' aspect of the work is better played up by interpreters such as Bernstein, or indeed Mitropoulos; yet Karajan very evidently did not want an intimate tragedy - that's why I like it.

[bhodges]

Anybody have opinions on the Mahler 6th? I heard some say it's one of the best things he's done and some others criticize it as being too "cool" and "businessman-like". 

This is one of my favorite recordings of the piece (and the first one I heard).  I'll go with the "merciless" assessment, although I hadn't really considered that until the comments here.  What I admire the most is the unbelievable playing from the Berlin ensemble; it has to be one of their best recordings, with him or with anyone else.  IMHO the Sixth requires some of the most virtuosic playing of any of the symphonies, and here the BPO shows exactly why they are in the front ranks.

--Bruce

[nut-job]

This is one of my favorite recordings of the piece (and the first one I heard).  I'll go with the "merciless" assessment, although I hadn't really considered that until the comments here.  What I admire the most is the unbelievable playing from the Berlin ensemble; it has to be one of their best recordings, with him or with anyone else.  IMHO the Sixth requires some of the most virtuosic playing of any of the symphonies, and here the BPO shows exactly why they are in the front ranks.

--Bruce

Another plus is that the engineering on this release is quite good.  There are a number of recordings by Karajan which I can't enjoy because they are marred by intrusive engineering (excessive spotlighting of soloists, changing of recording balances in the process of a movement, etc).

[bhodges]

Another plus is that the engineering on this release is quite good.  There are a number of recordings by Karajan which I can't enjoy because they are marred by intrusive engineering (excessive spotlighting of soloists, changing of recording balances in the process of a movement, etc).

Yes, quite true: an extremely well-engineered project.  The dynamic range is enormous (i.e., a plus in my book).

--Bruce

[imperfection]

Thanks for all your comments. It sounds very yummy indeed. Meanwhile, I ordered an SHM-CD version which is supposed to have amazing sound.

[Renfield]

Thanks for all your comments. It sounds very yummy indeed. Meanwhile, I ordered an SHM-CD version which is supposed to have amazing sound.

Well... "Amazing"... No, not amazing.

I have the 1980s Brahms cycle on SHM-CD, and I have 3/4 of it from a non-SHM-CD issue (and by this point the reason I bought the SHM-CD issue might have become obvious ). The sound is a little clearer, maybe a little crisper. But that's it. Nothing world-changing, and nothing worth paying more for, if that's the case for you, unless perhaps (like in my case) there is a side-benefit to the purchase.

[George]

I have the 1980s Brahms cycle on SHM-CD, and I have 3/4 of it from a non-SHM-CD issue (and by this point the reason I bought the SHM-CD issue might have become obvious ). The sound is a little clearer, maybe a little crisper. But that's it. Nothing world-changing, and nothing worth paying more for, if that's the case for you, unless perhaps (like in my case) there is a side-benefit to the purchase.

Yes, I have read on my audiophile forum that SHM is pretty underwhelming.   

[Papageno]

Please!  Karajan is classical music for the masses.

[Wilhelm Richard]

Please!  Karajan is classical music for the masses.

Oh? Please elaborate!