Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)

[prémont]

I have close to 20 versions of Brandenburg Concertos between CD's and LP's.

May I be curious and ask: Which ones??

[Antoine Marchand]

May I be curious and ask: Which ones??

We have been invaded by a quantitative fever.

Anyway, I am out of race because I just have twelve complete versions:

HIP: Musica Antiqua Köln, Boston Early Music Festival Orchestra (Parrott), Orchestra of the Age of the Enlightenment (Huggett), I Barocchisti, La Petite Bande, Concerto Italiano, Concentus Musicus Wien (1964), Musica Amphion, Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra, Leonhardt (Seon) and AAM.

Additionally, an excellent version on modern instruments by Consort of London (Robert Haydon Clark).

Somewhere (I really don't know where) von Karajan.

[nut-job]

But the massive sound of Concertos 3 & 6 is next to intolerable.

That's just what I like most in the set, the absurdity of it.

[prémont]

We have been invaded by a quantitative fever.

Anyway, I am out of race because I just have twelve complete versions:

HIP: Musica Antiqua Köln, Boston Early Music Festival Orchestra (Parrott), Orchestra of the Age of the Enlightenment (Huggett), I Barocchisti, La Petite Bande, Concerto Italiano, Concentus Musicus Wien (1964), Musica Amphion, Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra, Leonhardt (Seon) and AAM.

Additionally, an excellent version on modern instruments by Consort of London (Robert Haydon Clark).

Quantitative fever?? My interests are focused much more upon "which ones" than "how many".

And I hate to bring forward those small corrections, but the Parrott version is played by an English ensemble called the Taverner Consort, counting members like John Holloway and the late John Toll. The Boston ensemble plays only the Suites and the Triple concerto BWV 1044.
But Parrott´s Brandenburgs is a rather hectic performance like the version of I Barrochisti. My preferred versions - of the ones you mention - are the Leonhardt and La Petite bande. I think these are noble and warm performances, and my only quibbles are the insecure oboe(s) Dombrecht and the insufficient tromba in Leonhardts version and the use of corno in Kuijkens version, as well as the all too rushed tempo for the last movement in Concerto no 3 in both versions. Fortunately I own a concert broadcast from the year 2000 with La Petite Bande using tromba in no.2 (but still a rushed second movement in 3). The Robert Haydon Clark version is also one of my favorites, especially the dark noble no.6.

[prémont]

That's just what I like most in the set, the absurdity of it.

For me it works at most like a guilty pleasure 

[Antoine Marchand]

Quantitative fever?? My interests are focused much more upon "which ones" than "how many".

Hey, Premont, I was only joking about this question, especially considering the usual discussion about big box sets v/s single recordings. That's the problem with the written language; therefore, I will add this:   

And I hate to bring forward those small corrections, but the Parrott version is played by an English ensemble called the Taverner Consort, counting members like John Holloway and the late John Toll. The Boston ensemble plays only the Suites and the Triple concerto BWV 1044.
But Parrott´s Brandenburgs is a rather hectic performance like the version of I Barrochisti. My preferred versions - of the ones you mention - are the Leonhardt and La Petite bande. I think these are noble and warm performances, and my only quibbles are the insecure oboe(s) Dombrecht and the insufficient tromba in Leonhardts version and the use of corno in Kuijkens version, as well as the all too rushed tempo for the last movement in Concerto no 3 in both versions. Fortunately I own a concert broadcast from the year 2000 with La Petite Bande using tromba in no.2 (but still a rushed second movement in 3). The Robert Haydon Clark version is also one of my favorites, especially the dark noble no.6.

A funny thing: When I was writing my previous post, I was confused about the group who performed the Brandenburgs under Parrott. I have not heard those CDs (the Orchestral Suites and the Brandenburgs) in a long time. But I was so comfortably seated in my room. I recalled my friend Premont, but I was imprudent and trusted in my weak memory... I will hear those Brandenburgs tonight. And, please  , I know a group called Taverner Players. 

My favorites are, for sure, La Petite Bande, the AAM (I like the English way) and Leonhardt.

A big disappointment: Pieter-Jan Belder and his Musica Amphion. 

[Coopmv]

May I be curious and ask: Which ones??

On CD

Brandenburg Concertos No. 1-6   European Brandenburg Ensemble/Pinnock
Brandenburg Concertos No. 1-6   English Concert/Pinnock
Brandenburg Concertos No. 1-6   Berlin Phil./Karajan (live)
Brandenburg Concertos No. 1-6   Berlin Phil./Karajan
Brandenburg Concertos No. 1-6   Berlin Phil./Karajan
Brandenburg Concertos No. 1-3   ASMIF/Marriner
Brandenburg Concertos No. 4-6   ASMIF/Marriner
Brandenburg Concertos No. 1-6   Acad. of Ancient Music/Hogwood
Brandenburg Concertos No. 1, 2 & 6   ASMIF/Marriner
Brandenburg Concertos No. 3, 4 & 5   ASMIF/Marriner
Brandenburg Concertos No. 1-6   Brandenburg Consort/Goodman
Brandenburg Concertos No. 1-3   English Chamber Orch/Leppard
Brandenburg Concertos No. 4-6   English Chamber Orch/Leppard
Brandenburg Concertos No. 1-4   ASMIF/Marriner
Brandenburg Concertos No. 5-6, Orchestral Suites No. 1   ASMIF/Marriner
Orchestral Suites Nos, 2-4   ASMIF/Marriner
Brandenburg Concertos No. 1-6   English Chamber Orch/Somary(SACD)
Brandenburg Concertos No. 1-6   Orch of the Age of Enlight/Huggett
Brandenburg Concerto No. 5   Academy of Ancient Music Berlin(SACD)
Orchestral Suites, Brandenburg Concertos, etc   Saar Chamber Orch/Ristenpart
Orchestral Suites, Brandenburg Concertos, etc   Wurttemburg Cham. Orch/Farber

On LP

Brandenburg Concertos No. 1-6         Concentus Musicus of Vienna
Brandenburg Concertos No. 1-6         English Concert - Trevor Pinnock
Brandenburg Concertos No. 1-6         Berlin Phil - Karajan
Brandenburg Concertos No. 1-6         Stuttgart Chamber Orchestra - Munchinger
Brandenburg Concertos No. 1-6         Munich Bach Orchestra - Karl Richter
Brandenburg Concertos No. 1-6         Marlboro Festival Orchestra - Casal
Brandenburg Concertos No. 1-6         ASMIF - Marriner
Brandenburg Concertos No. 1-6         Saar Chamber Orchestra - Ristenpart

[Coopmv]

On CD
(...)

On LP
(...)

I forgot to include another version that came with that mammoth 155-CD set on Brilliant Classics.  Not sure if the conductor was Jan Pieter Belder ...

Oh, I also forgot a very unlikely version on LP, by I Musici, the famed Italian baroque ensemble that has ceased to exist ...

[prémont]

And, please  , I know a group called Taverner Players. 

Sorry, I meant Taverner Players. I am at my work and not at home now, so I could not verify the exact details from the CDset.

My favorites are, for sure, La Petite Bande, the AAM (I like the English way) and Leonhardt.

Mine the same except that I prefer Pinnock to Hogwood

A big disappointment: Pieter-Jan Belder and his Musica Amphion. 

Yes, I have listened to this only once, and have not yet been tempted to try a second listen.

[prémont]

I forgot to include another version that came with that mammoth 155-CD set on Brilliant Classics.  Not sure if the conductor was Jan Pieter Belder ...

Oh, I also forgot a very unlikely version on LP, by I Musici, the famed Italian baroque ensemble that has ceased to exist ...

Well an impressive collection, I very much appreciate the inclusion of the rare and underrated Ristenpart.I suppose you own all three Marriner sets? But else many of the groups/conductors you mention, recorded the works twice or even three times, so it becomes very much a question of conjecture to find out, which ones you mean.

Which ones do you tresure the most?

[Coopmv]

Well an impressive collection, I very much appreciate the inclusion of the rare and underrated Ristenpart.I suppose you own all three Marriner sets? But else many of the groups/conductors you mention, recorded the works twice or even three times, so it becomes very much a question of conjecture to find out, which ones you mean.

Which ones do you tresure the most?

Believe it or not, while I generally prefer performance on period instruments when it comes to baroque works, I am particularly fond of the 1980 Marriner recordings with that all-star cast.  Versions by Trevor Pinnock with the English Concert and Roy Goodman with the Brandenburg Consort are also my favorites.  Indeed, versions by the Saar Chamber Orchestra with Karl Ristenpart, the Marlboro Festival Orchestra with Pablo Casal and I Musici are all somewhat rare.
Considering I have close to 1000 CD's/LP's on Bach works, the number of versions of Brandenburg Concertos I have are by no means excessive.

Just checked my records shelf, it looks like I also have a version by Festival Strings Lucerne with Joseph Suk, Christiane Jaccottet, etc. on Eurodisc.  It appears to be a somewhat rare version as well.

   

[Antoine Marchand]

But Parrott´s Brandenburgs is a rather hectic performance like the version of I Barrochisti.

I didn't remember the Parrott's recording, but in several parts is very hectic indeed. The quality sound is not excellent, but curiously was improved when I used headphones, which it's weird. I would say that the "sound stage" is a bit limited. 

It's rather impressive how many HIP versions of these works are damaged by wrong tempi: Musica Antiqua Köln, Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin, I Barocchisti, Musica Florea and, very recently, the American Bach Soloists.

Some days ago I was listening to the latter, when exactly this problem appeared in the Brandenburg Concerto No. 3 in G, BWV 1048:

http://americanbach.org/recordings/Brandenburgs.htm

[Coopmv]

Well an impressive collection, I very much appreciate the inclusion of the rare and underrated Ristenpart.I suppose you own all three Marriner sets? But else many of the groups/conductors you mention, recorded the works twice or even three times, so it becomes very much a question of conjecture to find out, which ones you mean.

Which ones do you tresure the most?

I do own all versions by Marriner.  I also have a version by Karajan/BPO on the Nuova Era label, which was a live recording made in Milan? 

[Bulldog]

Quantitative fever?? My interests are focused much more upon "which ones" than "how many".

But Parrott´s Brandenburgs is a rather hectic performance like the version of I Barrochisti.

I remember Parott's version as being anything but hectic, at least compared to more recent accounts.

[jlaurson]

Considering I have close to 1000 CD's/LP's on Bach works, the number of versions of Brandenburg Concertos I have are by no means excessive.
I do own all versions by Marriner.  I also have a version by Karajan/BPO on the Nuova Era label.

Will somebody wake me up once we have the "mine is bigger than yours" discussion behind us and talk about recordings extends at least minimally beyond "I think [X] is awesome. [Y] is awesome, too!"?

[Que]

Though an ardent Bach fan, I'm not big on multiple recordings. And the Brandenburgs are something I do not listen to all that often. I don't like non-HIP (owning any Bach by the illustrious "HvK" sounds actually rather frightening.. ) and don't like the Brits in this (yeah, sorry.. )

I have been happy for years with Harnoncourt's 2nd take. Got the recording by the Linde Consort on recommendation by Premont. Wonderful, an absolutely wonderful subtle and intimate chamber music angle, after Harnoncourt's somewhat brash, grander and more driven approach.



I'm in the market for more, maybe one of the new "Italianate" recordings by Alessandrini or Fasolis.

Also maybe another of the pioneering recordings, like the Collegium Aureum or Leonhardt. Then maybe Kuijken - like his Suites very much! Finally, after hearing Von der Goltz's Dresden concertos by Vivaldi (!) with the Freiburger, I immediately knew he would be perfect for the Brandenburgs. And indeed this fits the feedbacks here on a DVD they did. I'll be waiting for a CD-recording by them.

Q

[prémont]

It's rather impressive how many HIP versions of these works are damaged by wrong tempi:  the American Bach Soloists.

Quite a shame. Incidentally I ordered this a week ago from Amazon.com. It may arrive in a couple of weeks.
When reading Jens´review of the Egarr version, one gets the impression, that this may be a different and more musical reading. So I shall order this too.

[prémont]

Got the recording by the Linde Consort on recommendation by Premont. Wonderful, an absolutely wonderful subtle and intimate chamber music angle, after Harnoncourt's somewhat brash, grander and more driven approach.

Good to hear. What a shame, that it is out of print.

I'm in the market for more, maybe one of the new "Italianate" recordings by Alessandrini or Fasolis.

Would without doubt prefer the singing Alessandrini to the nervous Fasolis.

Finally, after hearing Von der Goltz's Dresden concertos by Vivaldi (!) with the Freiburger, I immediately knew he would be perfect for the Brandenburgs. And indeed this fits the feedbacks here on a DVD they did. I'll be waiting for a CD-recording by them.

Do you think they will make a new version? Or you may, as I have done, transfer the recording to CD.

[prémont]

Will somebody wake me up once we have the "mine is bigger than yours" discussion behind us and talk about recordings extends at least minimally beyond "I think [X] is awesome. [Y] is awesome, too!"?

You may have missed my last answer to you (post 122).

[prémont]

Believe it or not, while I generally prefer performance on period instruments when it comes to baroque works, I am particularly fond of the 1980 Marriner recordings with that all-star cast. 

Yes this is, as it seems, a fine version with splendid soloists. It is just that it - like many of Marriners recordings - has got a strange "self-playing" quality, which I find alien to the spirit of the music.

Just checked my records shelf, it looks like I also have a version by Festival Strings Lucerne with Joseph Suk, Christiane Jaccottet, etc. on Eurodisc.  It appears to be a somewhat rare version as well.

Something similar might be said about this, why I prefer Baumgartners earlier version on Archiv, which communicate the joy of music making in a more charming way - at least in these ears.