Author Topic: Bach on the piano  (Read 175096 times)

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Offline Jo498

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #920 on: September 27, 2020, 07:43:51 AM »
It is still a moderately common name in German speaking countries as well, e.g. IOC functionary Thomas Bach.
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Offline Dry Brett Kavanaugh

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #921 on: October 04, 2020, 07:13:53 PM »
Enjoying the distinctive interpretations and unique world.

Offline milk

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #922 on: October 10, 2020, 10:00:34 PM »
From Daniel Barenboim’s Wikipedia pared:

In his recording of The Well-Tempered Clavier, Barenboim makes frequent use of the right-foot sustaining pedal, a device absent from the keyboard instruments of Bach's time (although the harpsichord was highly resonant), producing a sonority very different from the "dry" and often staccato sound favoured by Glenn Gould. Moreover, in the fugues, he often plays one voice considerably louder than the others, a practice impossible on a harpsichord. According to some scholarship, this practice began in Beethoven's time (see, for example, Matthew Dirst's book Engaging Bach). When justifying his interpretation of Bach, Barenboim claims that he is interested in the long tradition of playing Bach that has existed for two and a half centuries, rather than in the exact style of performance in Bach's time:

Quote
The study of old instruments and historic performance practice has taught us a great deal, but the main point, the impact of harmony, has been ignored. This is proved by the fact that tempo is described as an independent phenomenon. It is claimed that one of Bach's gavottes must be played fast and another one slowly. But tempo is not independent! ... I think that concerning oneself purely with historic performance practice and the attempt to reproduce the sound of older styles of music-making is limiting and no indication of progress. Mendelssohn and Schumann tried to introduce Bach into their own period, as did Liszt with his transcriptions and Busoni with his arrangements. In America Leopold Stokowski also tried to do it with his arrangements for orchestra. This was always the result of "progressive" efforts to bring Bach closer to the particular period. I have no philosophical problem with someone playing Bach and making it sound like Boulez. My problem is more with someone who tries to imitate the sound of that time ...[42]
First of all, it sounds to me like Wikipedia is not exactly correct here. As far as I understand, two manual harpsichords are capable of producing dynamics - though not anything like a piano. No?
Anyway, Barenboim’s isn’t bad but I just think he’s terribly misguided. I’ve been listening to his performances a bit. Like most pianists, he leans on dynamic variance a little too much. As far as his thinking, it seems illogical.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #923 on: October 10, 2020, 10:13:58 PM »
From Daniel Barenboim’s Wikipedia pared:

In his recording of The Well-Tempered Clavier, Barenboim makes frequent use of the right-foot sustaining pedal, a device absent from the keyboard instruments of Bach's time (although the harpsichord was highly resonant), producing a sonority very different from the "dry" and often staccato sound favoured by Glenn Gould. Moreover, in the fugues, he often plays one voice considerably louder than the others, a practice impossible on a harpsichord. According to some scholarship, this practice began in Beethoven's time (see, for example, Matthew Dirst's book Engaging Bach). When justifying his interpretation of Bach, Barenboim claims that he is interested in the long tradition of playing Bach that has existed for two and a half centuries, rather than in the exact style of performance in Bach's time:
First of all, it sounds to me like Wikipedia is not exactly correct here. As far as I understand, two manual harpsichords are capable of producing dynamics - though not anything like a piano. No?
Anyway, Barenboim’s isn’t bad but I just think he’s terribly misguided. I’ve been listening to his performances a bit. Like most pianists, he leans on dynamic variance a little too much. As far as his thinking, it seems illogical.

Only in that you can couple the keyboards, so terraced dynamics with just a couple of volume possibilities. What it can’t do is accentuate a note or a phrase by volume change - though as you know the illusion can be created.

Barenboim’s comments made me laugh because when he talks about bringing c18 up to date, what he means is making it sound more like fucking Beethoven! On a fucking Steinway!  That’s c19 music played in the most bourgeois conservative c20 way, and we’re in the c21, and we’re all anti conservative and we want to épater la bourgeoisie.


What I would like is someone who brought it up to date in the sense of making it sound like Brice Pauset or Enno Poppe
« Last Edit: October 11, 2020, 12:57:23 AM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline milk

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #924 on: October 10, 2020, 10:49:32 PM »
Only in that you can couple the keyboards, so terraced dynamics with just a couple of volume possibilities. What it can’t do is accentuate a note or a phrase by volume change - though as you know the illusion can be created.

Barenboim’s comments made me laugh because when he talks about bringing c18 up to date, what he means is making it sound more like fucking Beethoven! On a fucking Steinway!  That’s c19 music played though the most bourgeois conservative c20 way, and we’re in the c21, and we’re all anti conservative and we want to épater la bourgeoisie.


What I would like is someone who brought it up to date in the sense of making it sound like Brice Pauset or Enno Poppe
with the ego a guy like him has, he probably can’t imagine one could seriously be bored by his Bach. I’m on the lookout for pianists out of that paradigm. I think Lepauw is one who’s a bit different, though I don’t always like what he does. 

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #925 on: Today at 01:34:49 AM »
See what you make of this curiosity. IMO it is an unspeakable self indulgent monstrosity.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/YH4C2uIBDSg&amp;ab_channel=dafeneo" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/YH4C2uIBDSg&amp;ab_channel=dafeneo</a>

Much in the same vein I noticed that there's on old recording of The Goldberg Variations Francesco Tristano Schlimé  -- another anachonist.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #926 on: Today at 03:18:27 AM »
See what you make of this curiosity. IMO it is an unspeakable self indulgent monstrosity.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/YH4C2uIBDSg&amp;ab_channel=dafeneo" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/YH4C2uIBDSg&amp;ab_channel=dafeneo</a>

Much in the same vein I noticed that there's on old recording of The Goldberg Variations Francesco Tristano Schlimé  -- another anachonist.

Playing Bach on the piano is anachronistic in principle.

But what is the point of playing Bach on the piano if you don't make use of the "superiority" of the piano?
It's better to act today than to regret tomorrow.
(Mette Frederiksen)