I wanted to add something to the Harris thread and was surprised to see that there wasn't one. I was going to say how much I admired a new discovery - Symphony No 11 (1967), which I came across on an Albany CD. The 11th Symphony is in one movement, dedicated to Harris's wife it is described in the notes as his 'last autobiographically invested symphonic statement'. I rate it highly - it is a powerful, dark and characteristic work, opening with an extended piano sequence. Harris wrote 13 symphonies. Of those I have heard my favourites are the 3rd (considered one of the greatest American symphonies), the 6th, 7th and 1st. Of the famous No 3, the best recording I know is from Leonard Bernstein on Sony (better than the DGG remake I think). There is a fine historic recording of Symphony 7 conducted by Eugene Ormandy. I first came across Harris as my older brother had a great CBS LP featuring the Bernstein recordings of Harris's Third Symphony and Bernstein's own Symphony No 1 ('Jeremiah'). These were IMHO the greatest recordings of both works. Harris is clearly influenced, like so many other composers of his time by Sibelius but his own style is very recognizable. Symphony No 11 is a fine work I think:
Ah, you beat me to the punch! ;D
Sibelius 7 and Harris 3 are probably it for me, and obviously the connection exists.
I could go on about No.3.
No.7 also does the trick (though a "perfect" new recording would be nice), and the "Gettysburg" No.6, and No.1. I might even give No.5 some credentials. No.2 has only recently been available on Albany; it wasn't supposed to be "all that", but I would be interested to hear what anyone might have to say about it.
I'm glad to hear that No.11 was in the ole Harris way. I remember anticipating the Albany No.8 & No.9 issue, and being sorely disappointed by Harris. I mean, I know the music's alright, and the recording is great, but harris' No.9 as the "Great American Ninth"?, yea, I don't know if we need to go there. So, that leaves No.10, No.12, & No.13, and I'm not so sure about level of inspiration of these (he is known to have seriously flagged off here).
I haven't heard the Violin Cto in many years,... hey, "violinconcerto" guy..., but the Piano Cto, I'm sorry, I'm going to use the word awful. The same goes for the Piano Qnt from which the cto comes from. There is also a strange concerto on the Citadel label (w/Piano Cto) that, though better than the former cto, still leaves much to be desired.
As a matter of fact, most of Harris' chamber music is severely lacking, though I have heard good things about the Violin Sonata. The 2 out 3 SQs I've heard had nothing of real Harris in them, IMO, of course, haha, but no, don't expect anything, really. Again, the Piano Qnt is absolutely not really good Harris at all.
I can't vouch for the piano music, though I've heard he had a slightly bland Haydnesque tendency in some of it. I believe his wife is available playing all of it, though.
As far as I have handy right now, that leaves what's left of Harris' orchestral output. There was a piece on a Schwarz/Delos cd, and a couple of pieces on a BayCities cd (Cimarron? & ?). Oh, I think it's part of the organ and brass piece, part of which is featured on that Hyperion disc of American brass music. I think all of these minor pieces do actually have some of the ole Harris in them. This is where his unique output gets very spotty.
I remember plowing through Harris (after falling for No.3) and becoming extremely disappointed with his uneven talent. I was glad to hear Van lift up No.11 as a fellow of 3 & 7.
There is so little that I can think of that matches the perfection of Harris 3 (Sibelius 7). Towards the end of the sym, as the tension rises, and the brass emote that two part melody...come on, you know the one!...yea, that does it for me! :'(
Perhaps we need a Single Movement Symphonies thread!
...feeling v'klempt...
I really really should get more Harris, especially the symphonies since I have a book on Harris and his symphonies with detailed analysis of all of them. But I in fact only have 3 of the symphonies in my collection. I bought the book for 50 cents at the Oakland Public Library when they were facing budget cuts and were "raising money". Maybe they got a grand total of $50 for the good books they sold on that day.
My error. The book was 25 cents, same as the Nielsen book.
Thanks for replies - I thought that this might be a candidate for a zero response thread :-[
Yes, I agree that we could do with a new version of Symphony No 7 - although we are fortunate to have the old Ormandy. Of course there is also Koussevitsky's fine old versions of nos 1 and 3. I forgot No 5, which also has its moments. I had a fine old RCA LP with that on one side and Martinu's 5th symphony on the otherside (Louisviile SO, Whitney, I think).
Symphony No 11 was a surprise as I had also been underwhelmed by 'The Great American Ninth' and thought that Harris's muse had deserted him - I was wrong. Like Arnell's 6th Symphony it is a rather strange work but one that I immediately wanted to return to. I have Symphony No 2 and will listen again
I enjoy Harris, although admittedly his output is uneven and after awhile sounds the same. He did have a quite distinctive musical voice and that I always admire. The 11th was a bit of a surprise here too. The opening using his trademark amplified piano, is arresting. Perhaps the rest flags a bit as he slips into his stentorian, declamatory mode and does not let up. But overall a successful work and one that deserves a hearing now and then.
As several mentioned, the 9th did not really impress as much as the 8th. The in between 10th, the Abraham Lincoln Symphony, has not been recorded nor even played (likely but I am not 100% sure) since its premiere in 1965. The 12th (Pere Marquette) and "Bicentennial Symphony" # 13 were widely panned at their first hearing and have not had much if any exposure since then.
The 3rd is a compact masterpiece, a wonderful example of an organic one movement symphony; yes musch in the vein of Sibelius' 7th, but with Harris' voice at its most distinctive. I enjoy the 6th as well.
Marin Alsop and Naxos are supposedly in process of recording all the numbered Harris Symphonies (there are 3-4 un-numbered works, some lost) but are not making a lot of progress. So far only 3 and 4 seem to be released.
Naxos also did 7 & 9. Wake me if they ever finish any series...any series...any...series...any...
The 7 and 9 was with Kuchar and Ukrane, not sure if that is part of the series or if Alsop was going to redo those as well.
I don't think I will be waking you soon! ;D
I am surprised that you thought this thread would be a candidate for a zero response, Jeffrey :) There are a good few Harris fans on here.
There has been quite a lot of discussion of Roy Harris in other threads on American composers. For a time Harris almost seemed to be acquiring a sort of 'Grand Old Man' status in American music comparable to VW's in Britain. He appeared to be the archetypal American symphonist-the composer whose music conjured up the wide-open spaces of the American West and the boundless self-confidence of the pioneer spirit of the early settlers. The flowing melodies, sharpened by 20th century dissonances, drew upon folk tunes and hymns in the same way as the Copland of the 1930s and 1940s and clear echoes can be heard in the music of other composers, including non-Americans.
But Harris's reputation faded as more modern-sounding music came into fashion and is little heard today. He is still described in some books as one of the finest American composers and I was a lover of his music from an early age. Today I am not quite so sure. The music still appeals for exactly the same reasons that it did first so many years ago but now I wonder sometimes if it lacks something?
What that something might be puzzles me a little. It might be variety-too many Harris symphonies sound too similar, as if the huge success of the Third Symphony(which remains the great Harris symphony) led Harris to try to recycle that success by attempting to repeat the formula in, for example, the 5th or the 7th. Perhaps, on the other hand, it is a certain absence of real depth to the music. It is colourful, tuneful, heroic, patriotic in a kind of American Shostakovichian sense but lacks the profoundity to match the Russian master.
Don't get me wrong...I admire Harris and his symphonies but I would not necessarily put him ahead of his contemporaries. There is not the bite of a William Schuman, for example. When I listen to a new Harris symphony with expectation(as recently with No.11) I come away with a slight sense of disappointment that it is not the great masterpiece I was looking for.
Yes..I too hope that Marin Alsop's Harris cycle for Naxos hurries up(she has apparently recorded Nos. 5 and 6) but the prospect of hearing Nos. 10, 12 and 13 is not as exciting as it once was.
Does this make any sense ???
Quote from: Dundonnell on June 15, 2009, 04:25:49 AM
Yes..I too hope that Marin Alsop's Harris cycle for Naxos hurries up(she has apparently recorded Nos. 5 and 6) but the prospect of hearing Nos. 10, 12 and 13 is not as exciting as it once was.
Does this make any sense ???
Yep it does. Uneven, and not the bite of W Schuman covers my feelings as well.
Although I haven't heard much of Harris's output, I'm following this thread with interest. Looking at a list of his works, I believe I've only heard the Third Symphony (both of Bernstein's NYPO recordings), so the comments on the others are welcome.
--Bruce
The 6th is very good and quite different from the 3rd. The Albany disc with 8 & 9 was a letdown for me.
The 2nd symphony was withdrawn but has been recorded on Albany and it's pretty good.
Quote from: Dundonnell on June 15, 2009, 04:25:49 AM
I am surprised that you thought this thread would be a candidate for a zero response, Jeffrey :) There are a good few Harris fans on here.
There has been quite a lot of discussion of Roy Harris in other threads on American composers. For a time Harris almost seemed to be acquiring a sort of 'Grand Old Man' status in American music comparable to VW's in Britain. He appeared to be the archetypal American symphonist-the composer whose music conjured up the wide-open spaces of the American West and the boundless self-confidence of the pioneer spirit of the early settlers. The flowing melodies, sharpened by 20th century dissonances, drew upon folk tunes and hymns in the same way as the Copland of the 1930s and 1940s and clear echoes can be heard in the music of other composers, including non-Americans.
But Harris's reputation faded as more modern-sounding music came into fashion and is little heard today. He is still described in some books as one of the finest American composers and I was a lover of his music from an early age. Today I am not quite so sure. The music still appeals for exactly the same reasons that it did first so many years ago but now I wonder sometimes if it lacks something?
What that something might be puzzles me a little. It might be variety-too many Harris symphonies sound too similar, as if the huge success of the Third Symphony(which remains the great Harris symphony) led Harris to try to recycle that success by attempting to repeat the formula in, for example, the 5th or the 7th. Perhaps, on the other hand, it is a certain absence of real depth to the music. It is colourful, tuneful, heroic, patriotic in a kind of American Shostakovichian sense but lacks the profoundity to match the Russian master.
Don't get me wrong...I admire Harris and his symphonies but I would not necessarily put him ahead of his contemporaries. There is not the bite of a William Schuman, for example. When I listen to a new Harris symphony with expectation(as recently with No.11) I come away with a slight sense of disappointment that it is not the great masterpiece I was looking for.
Yes..I too hope that Marin Alsop's Harris cycle for Naxos hurries up(she has apparently recorded Nos. 5 and 6) but the prospect of hearing Nos. 10, 12 and 13 is not as exciting as it once was.
Does this make any sense ???
Makes perfect sense Colin. I largely agree with you but enjoyed No 11 more than expected. Symphony No 6 'Gettysburg' is a fine work and does have a depth that is perhaps lacking in some other scores.
I have just discovered what I think is a very lovely work by Harris- Abraham Lincoln Walks at Midnight (1953), it is scored for mezzo-soprano (the outstanding Sharon Mabry) and piano trio and can be found on the Naxos double album below.
It is very much in the spirit of Samuel Barber's 'Knoxville, Summer of 1915' (1914)- the work is a setting of the poem by Vachel Lindsay. It is a very poetic and haunting work lasting 14 minutes. I can't stop playing it!
I've been curious about this one for a while:
(http://www.foothillrecords.com/images/citadel-classic/88114-harris.jpg)
It seems to be everything that he conducted himself.
Quote from: tjguitar on July 18, 2009, 01:37:26 PM
I've been curious about this one for a while:
(http://www.foothillrecords.com/images/citadel-classic/88114-harris.jpg)
It seems to be everything that he conducted himself.
I think I have this on LP in the attic somewhere - I seem to recall that the Concerto for Amplified Piano was characteristic.
Quote from: tjguitar on July 18, 2009, 01:37:26 PM
I've been curious about this one for a while:
(http://www.foothillrecords.com/images/citadel-classic/88114-harris.jpg)
It seems to be everything that he conducted himself.
I believe this is the cd I used to have, but with another cover (still, it was on Citadel). The
Concerto for Piano and Strings is the Piano Quintet, and this is definitely the work I dislike (bad gothic Shostakovich?)... do not like it. And I don't recall the
Concerto for Amplfied Piano and Orchestra being anything special at all, though it sounds nothing like the former.
The
Chorale and
Prelude&Fugue do contain typical Harris, however, but not enough to save this disappointing recital, IMHO.
I know, it looks enticing, doesn't it?...but, yea...no.
I am delighted with this new CD. The 6th Symphony 'Gettysburg' is perhaps the greatest Harris symphony after No 3 and I am over familiar with the latter. No 5 is also one of the strongest. Both are from World War Two. The opening and slow movements of No 6 are especially moving. Both symphonies have been recorded before but these performances and recordings are preferable - although perhaps the magical opening of No 6 is more realised in the excellent older recording on Albany (Pacific SO, Keith Clark). A great introduction to Harris.
Quote from: vandermolen on January 28, 2010, 05:36:39 AM
I am delighted with this new CD. The 6th Symphony 'Gettysburg' is perhaps the greatest Harris symphony after No 3 and I am over familiar with the latter. No 5 is also one of the strongest. Both are from World War Two. The opening and slow movements of No 6 are especially moving. Both symphonies have been recorded before but these performances and recordings are preferable - although perhaps the magical opening of No 6 is more realised in the excellent older recording on Albany (Pacific SO, Keith Clark). A great introduction to Harris.
I am so glad to hear about this recording! I first heard Harris in the 80's on the radio. It was the Clark recording of the Gettysburg. Living in LA at the time, PSO does get some occasional airing. I loved it. But I did not find any recording of the work after I graduated from school and went from a dirt poor student to a lowly paid worker. Maybe I can get this CD soon.
The 8th and 9th were indeed disappointing. But overall, I am still a Harris fan. I like the violin concerto better after the second listening. Not a great work, but certainly worth one's attention.
Jeffrey, thanks, that looks like a good disc for me to make Harris's musical acquaintance.
Quote from: vandermolen on January 28, 2010, 05:36:39 AM
I am delighted with this new CD. The 6th Symphony 'Gettysburg' is perhaps the greatest Harris symphony after No 3 and I am over familiar with the latter. No 5 is also one of the strongest. Both are from World War Two. The opening and slow movements of No 6 are especially moving. Both symphonies have been recorded before but these performances and recordings are preferable - although perhaps the magical opening of No 6 is more realised in the excellent older recording on Albany (Pacific SO, Keith Clark). A great introduction to Harris.
It sure has taken my whole career of classical listening for this to happen! I'm going to try to disregard the underlined comment, haha (you know how "we" are here: even the slightest HINT of a problem in a recording/performance is magnified in our heads as "unlistenable", haha!).
Either way, it's nice when the companies actually continue through with their series. Think of how many series get stalled, or worse.
Mmm, I just didn't need to be tempted with Harris right now. I'm pretty vunerable to interesting ideas right now, and I don't need to go on a Harris-a-thon $$$ right now, haha... I know how I get, and I'll want to get everything AGAIN (after geting rid of some before)!! I will check Amazon, though.
Still, great news for Harris fans!
Quote from: vandermolen on January 28, 2010, 05:36:39 AM
I am delighted with this new CD. The 6th Symphony 'Gettysburg' is perhaps the greatest Harris symphony after No 3 and I am over familiar with the latter. No 5 is also one of the strongest. Both are from World War Two. The opening and slow movements of No 6 are especially moving. Both symphonies have been recorded before but these performances and recordings are preferable - although perhaps the magical opening of No 6 is more realised in the excellent older recording on Albany (Pacific SO, Keith Clark). A great introduction to Harris.
Great news. I consider Harris as the best American symphonists. His harmonies, the very specific way he writes for the strings and the luminous atmospheres of his works are unique . I discovered it too with this Gettysburg symphony in the outstanding Keith Clark version on the radio. And I agree : this symphony is the best he wrote. Each movement is a jewel. But I think I love all his symphonies; maybe less the 4th which is less personal. And well, not that much the Symphony for voices either.
But I haven't heard the last ones yet (he wrote actually 13 symphonies and I never found the the 12th nor the 13th...).
While writing this message I was listening to this new CD with Marin Alsop (it is already on the Naxos Music Library), and I still prefer the Clark version : much clearer, more distinct, it makes also a bigger impact, and the final apotheosis is definitely more powerful. But the introduction and the slow movement are fine, as you said.
--Gilles
I'm glad to see the 6th symphony getting some acclaim, because it's been neglected. The Clark/Pacific SO recording on Albany is the only one I know, and it's so gripping that I can hardly imagine a better introduction to the rest of Harris. In particular I admire the slow movement, which has a mysterious quality that's unique. If you're looking for evidence that Harris was not just a one-hit wonder this is the work and the recording that you should hear first.
Also very good on this recording is Barber's Second Essay for Orchestra.
(http://www.albanyrecords.com/Merchant2/graphics/products/TROY064.jpg)
The Harris Copland Barber disc on Albany got me curious about Clark. He has a few recordings on Reference Recordings worth hearing, especially Respighi's Church Windows.
(http://www.classicalarchives.com/images/coverart/3/9/a/a/030911101527_300.jpg)
Quote from: vandermolen on January 28, 2010, 05:36:39 AM
I am delighted with this new CD. The 6th Symphony 'Gettysburg' is perhaps the greatest Harris symphony after No 3 and I am over familiar with the latter. No 5 is also one of the strongest. Both are from World War Two. The opening and slow movements of No 6 are especially moving. Both symphonies have been recorded before but these performances and recordings are preferable - although perhaps the magical opening of No 6 is more realised in the excellent older recording on Albany (Pacific SO, Keith Clark). A great introduction to Harris.
Andrew Clemens in the Guardian didn't like it one bit though:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/jan/28/harris-symphonies-5-6-review (http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/jan/28/harris-symphonies-5-6-review)
Since I don't have it but intend to purchase it anyway I just post the link as a potentially interesting observztion.
Quote from: erato on January 29, 2010, 08:52:37 AM
Andrew Clemens in the Guardian didn't like it one bit though:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/jan/28/harris-symphonies-5-6-review (http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/jan/28/harris-symphonies-5-6-review)
Since I don't have it but intend to purchase it anyway I just post the link as a potentially interesting observztion.
Thanks for the link; I quote a little bit of it :
"The problem is that Harris's music hardly ever rises above the patriotic breast-beating to become anything memorable or remotely personal. The Sixth is perhaps the more convincing. Its third movement, Dedication, with its theme gently unfolded over an almost Philip Glass-like pulsing accompaniment, has a quiet, touching poetry, but the rest is disappointingly empty. The excellent performances from Marin Alsop and the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra deserve greater musical rewards."
Funny though : my impression was symmetrically the opposite. Harris 5th & 6th are deeply original works and Marin Alsop is not really convincing. There is just this comment about Glass, I don't get the point there. Does he thinks that because something is repeated in a way or another, it has something to do with Glass ?
--Gilles
This
"Though it's admirable of Naxos to include a complete cycle of Roy Harris's symphonies (all 16 of them)"
raises another question : which symphonies is he talking about ? Harris completed only 13 numerotated symphonies. If you also take into consideration
- the Symphony for voices (for voices)
- the Symphony for High School Orchestra (lost)
- the American Symphony for jazz band (unfinished)
- the Choral Symphony (unfinished)
- the Walt Whitman Symphony (unfinished)
then it makes 18.
Moreover, you can read on the Wikipedia the following information :
"Naxos Records is in process of recording the 13 numbered symphonies with conductor Marin Alsop."
and not "all 16 of them".
Thanks guys for the interesting replies to my posting. I don't agree with the Guardian review at all. Symphony No 6 is a wonderful score (maybe the last movement is not quite up to the standard of the other three). I first came across the Pacific SO LP when I borrowed it from the record library in 1985. I know the year as my father had died shortly before. I found the opening and third movement of the 6th Symphony very consoling at the time and I always think of my father when I play this symphony. My own associations and projections I know - but this score means a lot to me. Don't hesitate, it's a great introduction to Harris, great performances, recording and price!
Interesting thread to say the least. Harris is far from one of my favorite American composers. He seldom hits the emotional highs of Barber, Piston, Diamond, Copland, or even Ives. His output as documented throughout this thread is really uneven and much of what I have heard just sounds uninspired to me. His most famous work "Symphony No. 3" is probably one of my favorite works of his. I have heard (so far) the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th symphonies and of his other orchestral works I have heard "Violin Concerto," which isn't too bad, "Kentucky Spring," and "Memories of a Child's Sunday." Nothing remotely sticks out or is even memorable.
I guess I'll just have to file Harris in the "don't understand right now" bin. I'm sure there's something there, but I just haven't heard it yet.
Quote from: vandermolen on January 28, 2010, 05:36:39 AM
I am delighted with this new CD. The 6th Symphony 'Gettysburg' is perhaps the greatest Harris symphony after No 3 and I am over familiar with the latter. No 5 is also one of the strongest. Both are from World War Two. The opening and slow movements of No 6 are especially moving. Both symphonies have been recorded before but these performances and recordings are preferable - although perhaps the magical opening of No 6 is more realised in the excellent older recording on Albany (Pacific SO, Keith Clark). A great introduction to Harris.
I remember hearing the performance of Harris's Sixth,by the Pacific SO in the early 80's. I was in my late teens then & I seem to remember it was broadcast by Radio 3,during the evening! I have had the Albany cd for quite a while now & while I share some of Dundonnells reservations I find the Sixth a very powerful and exciting symphony in the Pacific SO reading. Of all the 'other' Harris symphonies,this is the one that has the most impact when I listen to it. I would also like to echo 'drogulus's' enthusiasm for the slow movement.Marvellous!
Having said that,the recent recording of the Sixth,by Naxos,was,as far as this listener is concerned,a crashing disappointment. Indeed,if this recording had been my initial encounter with the symphony,I really wonder if I would have even bothered to listen to it again. According to various online reviews,views and comments by critics,listeners & bloggers,I am not the only one who has reservations about the performance. All of which seems to underline another inherent problem with the evaluation of Roy Harris's symphonic legacy. The lack of really first rate performances of his music. So many recordings,the Naxos ones in particular,seem like 'doofers'. But of course,with a composer as neglected & problematic as Harris,this is one of the problems. No major conductor is going to commit to recording his music & so,the only encounters we have with his music are always going to be second rate. Even the Seventh,which is often cited as the finest of Harris's symphonies,after the third,has been seriously neglected on record (and,latterly,cd). Indeed,arguably THE finest recording of all is that of Eugene Ormandy. Okay,it's decent mono & I'm pretty tolerant of old recordings,but it really would be nice to hear a really first rate performance in up to date sound (The Koch is another 'doofer',although,in my opinion,preferable to the Naxos,which is,in all due fairness,their best crack at a Harris symphony,so far!)
The fifth is another case in point. I remember borrowing an RCA gold seal Lp of this old recording,as a teenager,and being captivated by it. Years later,I was able to hear more of Harris's output & my enthusiasm for the score dimmed somewhat. But it's interesting that,thirty odd years later,if I want to listen to a decent performance of this symphony,THAT (in it's Albany incarnation) is still THE recording I reach for!
NB: Regarding Andrew Clements review of the Naxos 5 & 6. While I share his lack of enthusiasm for the performances,I feel obliged to observe that words like 'patchy' & 'empty' could apply,equally well,to some of his reviews.
A souce-how reliable or not I am not sure-tells me that Naxos has decided not to continue with the so-called "series" of Harris symphonies >:(
If so, that is a real disgrace considering the quantity of rubbish issued in their American Classics series.
On the other hand, I was beginning to wonder if Marin Alsop really has much empathy with the Harris idiom. I found her performances of Nos. 3-6 somewhat underwhelming compared to Bernstein in No.3 or even Clark in No.6.
Btw, you can hear the unrecorded Nos. 10, 12 and 13(or is it 14 ;D ;D) over at UC. They are strange works which really do nothing to enhance Harris's reputation.
Following my comments about the Naxos 5 & 6,I had another listen to their No5. Actually,it's not a bad interpretation really.The opening bars a little hesitant,but it is nice to hear this music in up to date sound! Having said that,the earlier performance does seem to have allot more momentum & atmosphere (very important!). But,perhaps it's just my ears or nostalgia for lost youth? (I do wish Albany would show a little more interest in Harris than umpteen volumes of,erm,Don Gillis! :o)
After this,I decided to subject myself to a Roy Harris marathon! :o The received opinion being that Harris merely repeated himself in the symphonies composed after the celebrated third,as if he was trying desperately,to somehow recreate the magic of the 3rd by by juggling around with the old formula,hoping he might get lucky again.
Well,I must admit,as far as I can make out,some of this IS true. If you want Brian or Vaughan Williams's variety and range of expresiion,you're not going to find it here. In fact,the only time Harris seems to have departed from his usual formula is his Fourth,which has some beautiful & touching moments,but allot of moments in between where you are tapping you're fingers & waiting for something as imaginative or striking to happen.
Having said that I am impressed by Harris's Sixth.which does seem to depart from the formula & strikes me as one of the best American symphonies I have heard. I find it astonishing that the Pacific SO Lp was it's first ever commercial recording.
I also enjoyed the Fifth for all those lovely,serene,luminous textures & the best parts of it ARE very imposing. I love his use of brass!
The Seventh is another one. Again,all those imposing brass statements and 'luminous' textures & some of it quite majestic,even grand. At the same time,unlike the 3rd,it's hard to remember individual themes & you certainly can't hum it! In my humble opinion (!) it lacks the earlier works distinctive profile,but having said that,it's still pretty imposing & it's hard not to listen to it without wishing that Bernstein had recorded it (although,personally,I would have preferred a Bernstein Sixth!).
The eighth,ninth & eleventh follow a similar trajectory,but after a couple of hours of non stop Roy Harris,with all their faults,I honestly can't say I disliked anything I heard. Again,all those striding chords & brass fanfares,those luminous textures,as I keep referring to them (I'm a listener not a musician,what else can I do?) do seem to compensate for any shortcomings they may have in the way of symphonic developement. Even the eleventh,which seems to have disappointed Dundonnell seemed to have something going for it,even if,like the the eighth,it seems more like a large symphonic poem than an actual symphony (I DO like the way he incorporates that piano).
So now,I'm back to what I was listening to before my Harris marathon. Copland! Listening to the variety of expression in such works as Billy the Kid,his third symphony & Piano Concerto (just taking this trio as an example) I don't need to be Alfred Einstein,to see where Roy Harris probably went wrong. Still,with his Symphony 1933 & Second lined up for later on,maybe there's some life in the old Harris dog left! While he does seem to have gone through the motions,to some degree (to allot of a degree!) after the famous third,his orchestration IS very individual,at it's best very beautiful & even exciting;and with all the rubbish that is touted around as great music & good for us,by organisations such as the infamous Beeb;his best efforts,namely No's 3,5,6 & 7 all strike me as deserving of some kind of re-evaluation & certainly deserve allot more exposure than they currently get,particularly 3,6 & 7,which really are worthy of concert hall exposure. (Although,no doubt they'd attract the usual flak from the trend conscious critics!)
PS: He's still not as good as Copland,Piston,Schuman or Diamond!!!! ;D
PPS: Apologies Dundonnell,I just saw you're reply!
I currently have Harris's Symphony 1933 (No1) on the headphones. I am inclined to think that this is actually one of Harris's best pre 'formula' symphonies! The textures & mood are a little more varied than some of his later symphonies,but I'n not sure if the inspiration isn't a tad uneven.
Regarding Naxos. Thank you for your reply,Dundonnell. I find some of Naxos's entries in their so called American Classics series bordering on the bizarre! Whatever Harris's supposed faults as a symphonist,his best work (most of it,probably!) has got to be way better than some of that junk. Although,there are some nuggets.
Their recent Henry Kimball Hadley release was a pleasant suprise & I only bought it because I was making a point about the quality of reviews (Andrew Clements v Musicweb) & the price,£1.26!
Equally wierd......actually,even wierder,is Albany records commitment to composers no one has ever heard of,while recordings of music by composers like David Diamond,Mennin and modern recordings of Piston are missing from the cd catalogue!
Even wierder is Albany's commitment to the complete oeuvre of Don Gillis & frankly god awful recordings of Gilbert and Sullivan that no one except the tone deaf could possibly enjoy listening to (even if you like G & S!).
As to Harris's later output. I do have a certain sympathy for the poor fellow. Creativity IS hard work,in it's own way & I can feel for the poor sod,always trying to come up with something that would measure up to his eponymous third.
His Violin Concerto is rather nice & could very well be placed along side some of his best work along with the lovely 'Memories of a child's Sunday',which suggests that Roy Harris possibly did have a lighter side (and maybe,a sense of humour,too,somewhere?) after all. If only he could have produced more music in this vein!
I have now listened to his Second symphony. Not Harris at his best,but he was nearly there,with the third,next!
Next up: Johnny comes Marching home (good fun if memory serves me,correctly)
Epilogue to Profiles in Courage:JFK (one of his best!)
Concerto for two Piano's & orchestra
Quintet for Piano & Strings
Sonata for Violin & Piano
String Quartet No3
After that,I think I'll chill out with some Walter Piston! ;D
I find myself in agreement with virtually everything you have written in these posts :)
The tragedy is that the only vaguely equivalent record company in the USA to the British Chandos, Hyperion and Dutton would be Albany(now that Delos has gone to the wall :() and, as you say, the Albany catalogue is totally bizarre :o The complete set of Don Gillis was quite extraordinary-he must be one of the poorest symphonists America has ever produced-and most of the composers featured in their catalogue are people one has never heard of.
It is so very sad at a time when so much undiscovered British music is being recorded that there are no integral sets of the symphonies of great American composers like Piston, Mennin or Diamond. Ok..we have got Hanson and Schuman from Naxos but that is about it.
Extraordinary :o
Symphony for Band
Has anyone heard this on a BayCities cd?
:btw,... I was listening to the last movement of the 'Mathis' symphony, and...woah!,... heard those familiar Harris harmonies in the strings. Listen close.
Indeed Dundonnell,we are very,very lucky here,by comparison. As to the Naxos Harris series,I see you are in agreement with me about Alsop's approach. I concur with you,almost totally. Alsop just doesn't seem to have any affinity for this music. In fact,despite my disappointment at the cancellation of the Naxos Harris cycle in favour of American Classics that no one's ever heard of (!) I almost feel a sense of relief that she won't be 'spoiling' any more! If Harris's best music is ever to get the kind of reappraisal it deserves it's not going to be through drab,by the number,read through's like that. Ok,I did say No 5 wasn't too bad,but even that was largely because I know the score from the old Louisville recording. I just wonder how I would have reacted to this music if this had been my first encounter? I don't think it would have helped! As to No3. I personally think it's the worst performance I've ever heard! In my opinion,of the two conductors Naxos employed,Kuchar was by far the better! At the risk of being called sexist,after listening to Alsop's recordings I couldn't help thinking of some of Bernstein's recordings of American music & wondering whether macho,muscular music of the kind Harris wrote does,perhaps,benefit somewhat from a man's touch! Having said that,my apologies to any women who might read this. It's more probably down to Alsops conducting! As simple as that!
As to Albany! Don Gillis? I mean,DON GILLIS?!!!! The mind boggles. I've got nothing against light music,but why the complete works of Don Gillis are more important to the cultural heritage of a nation than Harris,Piston,Diamond or Mennin,simply beggars belief. I mean,maybe one or even two Don Gillis cds (or none at all? : ;D),but the entire 'symphonic canon'? Dear G**! At least Leroy Anderson stuck to what he was good at.....waltzing cats!!!!!
Inc-c-c-credible! :o
Listening to Don Gillis's populistic symphonies only serves to remind me just how much better our own Malcolm Arnold was at doing exactly the same kind of thing. Incidentally,talking of the fusion of light & classical idioms,the Albany recording of Harris's Second is coupled with Morton Gould's interesting third symphony;one of his better efforts. In fact a bit of a suprise from this composer if you thought his inspiration was 'bitty'! (although I used to love his long deleted Varese Sarabande recording of his Latin American Symphonette). At one point Goulds orchestration actually manages to cleverly evoke a jazz combo style riff!
Also,if you like composers who fuse these idioms,George Antheil's symphonies have got to be at least a hundred times more interesting than those of Don Gillis. And incidentally,thank you to CPO (it's the thought that counts) for allowing me to collect them all in really first rate performances and recordings.
To be fair Gillis's 3rd & 6th are not bad & his Piano Concerto (I forget which one) IS rather nice. Oh,and some of his lighter pieces are quite good fun,IF you're in the right mood. In fact,I DO actually quite like his Star Spangled Symphony...........but (in a hushed,tremulous,whisper) the whole b***** lot?!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! :o
Finally,if Albany really DO want to spend money on a neglected composer who mixed popular and classical idioms in an interesting & often,genuinely inspiring way,why not record some more of the music of William Grant Still? They already have some of his music in their catalogue,including a recording of his one act opera,'Highway One'. I notice that he wrote a number of opera's which remain unrecorded &,drawing on a purely personal experience,his 'Afro American Symphony',in the Neeme Jarvi recording,had my elderly mum tapping her feet!
Or,better still,just record some more Harris,Piston,Diamond and Mennin! ;D
PS: I just pray Don Gillis's didn't write any opera's! I'm sure if Gillis did Albany will leave no stone unturned to record the whole lot!!! :o :o :o
Finally,to paraphrase something they often say on the Havergal Brian thread........back to Harris! ;D
Oh,and while I'm at it,here is my list of Roy Harris's best music. This is the result of my Harris marathon. I have placed each piece of music in order of merit ie the best (in my opinion) first,followed by second best & so on.........
THE BEST:
1) Symphony 3
2) Symphony 6
3) Symphony 7 (although,I'm tempted to put No 5 here!)
4) Symphony 5
5) Epilogue to Profiles in Courage: JFK
6) Violin Concerto (Although,I need to listen to it a bit more)
All the above are,in my opinion, imposing,grand,stirring,serene,beautiful & exciting in turn. I believe that any one of these works would be welcome additions to the concert hall repertory in the US & over here.
RUNNERS UP IN ORDER OF MERIT:
6) Memories of a child's Sunday
7) Symphony No 9
8) Symphony No 11 (Incidentally,I have no idea how that 'emoticon' got there!!!)
9) Symphony No 8
Not entirely sure about Symphony 1933,yet. I need to listen to it more. No's 8 & 11 have some intriguing sonorities & some of Roy Harris's most ear ticklingly original orchestration. I really DO like his use of the piano in these compositions. On a more negative level,they do seem more like extended orchestral tone poems than symphonies,but in their favour,interesting ones. Perhaps,in a way,Harris did actually succeed in doing something a little different here. To my mind,of the two, the eleventh works best.
THE WEAKEST:
10) Symphony No 2
I also rather enjoyed his Concerto for two Piano's & orchestra,especially that rollicking finale & his chamber music is worth listening to. As to 'Johnny Comes Marching home!' Well,that's fun & Harris cerainly creates some entertaining mileage out of it,fair play! ;D
To sum up: Superficially,there is a certain sameness in approach,but the more I dig in to these symphonies & some of the other compositions I have listened to,the more individuality I find in these works & just a few of them are,in my humble opinion,very fine compositions indeed! At the same time,given a push,I would still place Copland,Piston,Schuman,Diamond,Mennin and Barber on a higher level because of their far wider range of emotion & creative expression (particularly Copland & Barber,there just IS no comparison!) But I have to admit (tut! tut!) I DO like some of this music quite allot! :) I also know that allot of people find his output,beyond No 3,mind numbingly boring! ;D
OK,as Zebedee used to say :o time for bed!
I appreciate the ongoing discussion of Harris's music. I need to spend more time with it. I recall hearing Symphony No. 3 many times but it still has yet to make it's mark on me. I also have heard his Violin Concerto which had some nice parts. I don't remember much else. I have two Harris recordings on Naxos and a few on Albany and one on First Choice. I'll have to dig them back out. I do want to buy the Alsop recording of the 5th and 6th symphonies on Naxos. I'll probably buy it in my next haul which will include many Naxos new releases and Havergal Brian's Gothic on Hyperion.
Harris is a composer I've tried and tried again with, and he just doesn't do it for me. Granted, it might be a premature assessment, for the only piece I'm totally familiar with is the third symphony (despite having other recordings), and, to me, Schuman and Persichetti's respective third symphonies blow it out of the water. It just doesn't have the bite that his American symphonist colleagues have in their essays in the same genre. Maybe I'm just missing something?
Quote from: lescamil on December 13, 2011, 09:40:35 PM
Harris is a composer I've tried and tried again with, and he just doesn't do it for me. Granted, it might be a premature assessment, for the only piece I'm totally familiar with is the third symphony (despite having other recordings), and, to me, Schuman and Persichetti's respective third symphonies blow it out of the water. It just doesn't have the bite that his American symphonist colleagues have in their essays in the same genre. Maybe I'm just missing something?
Schuman does absolutely nothing for me. I haven't heard Persichetti's music yet, so I don't know what I'm gaining/missing there. But I agree with your overall assessment of Harris. His music does lack a certain edge that can easily be found in Copland, Barber, Piston, Ives (especially the 4th symphony and
Holidays). My general problem with Harris is the music sounds like it doesn't have much purpose and it just kind of meanders along with no kind of memorable themes, rhythms, or harmonies. I'm left thinking "Okay, what did I just hear?"
Perhaps the more knowledgeable Harris admirers here can tell me why they enjoy his music and what makes it unique?
Well, I just mentioned the Schuman because that particular symphony is frequently paired and compared with the Harris third, and the Persichetti has drawn comparisons to both symphonies. The Schuman and Persichetti both have quite an edge to them. The Harris just seems a bit too "pretty" and lean and just "sounds nice" and nothing more.
Do try again on Schuman, and get around to Persichetti sometime. They're both great symphonists, in my opinion. Harris? I'm not so sure.
I like Harris and Schuman very much, have a lot of their music. That said, to discuss whether their music is great or not, is a very personal one. And that's my criteria, if I like it its good, if I like it very much its great, whether or not others agree with me. Life is so simple.
I tend to agree with you there,Harry. Personally,I have known and enjoyed some of the Harris symphonies for years,but in recent years there has been allot of unrecorded stuff coming out. Harris's symphonies 8,9 & 11,are a case in point;also new recordings of 4,5,6 & 7 Suddenly the old accusations that Harris merely repeated himself (after No 3) have taken on a new light,because people can now try and decide for themselves instead of being 'told!'
Listening to all these symphonies one after another made me think about this thing about every Harris symphony being a mere re-tread of its predecessor. It started me thinking that maybe the problem isn't Harris's lack of innovation,maybe it's us. Some how because Harris wasn't outwardly a geat innovator,that he approaches each symphony in the same kind of way,or at least appears to,makes him a bad composer. Yet,the more I listen to these symphonies the more I find that Harris is actually quite an adventurous composer. While,superficially, each symphony tends to follow a similar pattern,it seems to me that in each symphony Harris is exploring all kinds of interesting timbres and textures,and furthermore,if you listen to each symphony in turn,there is this feeling that,far from being a mere re-hash of it's predecessor, each one grows out of the one before it,as if through subtle changes & procedures Harris's music is gradually evolving,almost like some kind of musical organism.
Listening to Harris's Seventh is a case in point. On a superficial level Harris is just repeating the old formula (of the 3rd) and hoping it will work again. All those striding chords,stabbing-growly brass interjections et al leading to a big triumphant climax with all the usual trumphant brass & percussion,only without a memorable tune that you can hum in the shower. But the more I listen,the more I find all kinds of subtleties & refinements in Harris's orchestration. In fact,the more I listen to the Seventh,the more I'm starting to feel that it is actually in many ways a more subtle and interesting work than it's famous predecessor. Also,on a purely visceral level I find this music VERY exciting.
The eighth symphony on the other hand,does seem like a disappointment at first after the conciseness of the Seventh. It seems almost like a garrulous, extended tone poem that doesn't seem to quite know when to stop. But again,the more I listen,the more I find all kinds of interesting timbres and textures there & Harris's use of the piano is quite gorgeous. This is music that really tickles the ear! My feeling is that this is actually quite a departure from it's predecessors & that there is some kind of underlying logic there & maybe we're just too blinded my traditional structure & form to appreciate it. Either way,this is gorgeous sounding music & personally I think the best approach is to just let those tinkling textures and piano sounds wash over you like some kind of exotic mid western bath! ;D
After this one Symphony No 9 DOES seem almost like a step backwards & while some of it is quite impressive,I don't think it's one of his best. Well,not yet,anyway! ;D
Interesting to compare the eighth with the Eleventh. There are so many similarities there,on the surface. Again there is some of the same inexorable tread of the Seventh,but like the eighth a feeling that the whole work is more like some kind of exploration in textures & timbres,culminating in a suitably sonorous conclusion than a conventional symphony. A bit like the 7th in form,but more 'exotic',refined and without all that brazen patriotism.
Incidentally,Mirror Image,if you DO want to have another go at Harris's fifth & sixth at their best,I really would urge you to get hold of the Pacific SO recording of the Sixth & the old Louisville recording of the Fifth,as well. The Alsop performance of the Sixth is very unsympathetic to Harris's idiom (I think it's awful!). The earlier recording of the fifth has more atmosphere & momentum;but the Alsop/Naxos performance of No 5 isn't too bad & will enable you to evaluate the piece in up to date sound!
This may be the worst thing I've ever heard:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrvFtRPgIHs&feature=related
WARNING!: This may permanently damage your opinion of RH, but, hey,... I just chalk it up to the '70s! ;)
Without question,a misunderstood,neglected masterpiece & I will now spend 800 words explaining why! ;D Actually,I think this is the one Dundonnell keeps warning us about! In the words of the Chuckle Brothers :o,Oh dear,oh dear,Oh dear! I can't even see a front rank orchestra doing much with that one....or wanting to!!! Roy Harris's No 1 achilles heel,his staunch patriotism! Yuk!
Still,even Beethoven had his Wellington Victory.........although,that was a shattering masterpiece by comparison!
Come on Albany records,let's have a recording (if I'm not careful they WILL! :o)
Don Gillis,all is forgiven!!!!!!
DON GILLIS IS THE MASTER!!!!
Quote from: snyprrr on December 14, 2011, 05:33:19 AM
This may be the worst thing I've ever heard:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrvFtRPgIHs&feature=related
WARNING!: This may permanently damage your opinion of RH, but, hey,... I just chalk it up to the '70s! ;)
Anyone want to continue this thread?!!! :o
Admirers of Roy Harris should enjoy this new release of his 7th Symphony in a historic recording, coupled with the excellent David Diamond's moving Symphony No 4 (in memory of his Father). The Hovhannes is very good too.
As for William Schuman, I admire Symphony No 3 and consider his 6th Symphony to be one of the greatest American symphonies (the Naxos version is excellent as is the old Ormandy on Albany.
[asin]B005KNU0XO[/asin]
Some interesting historical perspectives there,Vandermolen. Not sure that link works ;D,but I found it on Amazon.co.uk,anyway. I see you can download individual works (from the 2 cd set) there,if you don't want the whole lot! Ormandy's Seventh is available separately,too. So many times you think you can just download what you want,only to be greeted by,"Album only! :("
Quote from: vandermolen on December 14, 2011, 12:32:00 PM
Admirers of Roy Harris should enjoy this new release of his 7th Symphony in a historic recording, coupled with the excellent David Diamond's moving Symphony No 4 (in memory of his Father). The Hovhannes is very good too.
As for William Schuman, I admire Symphony No 3 and consider his 6th Symphony to be one of the greatest American symphonies (the Naxos version is excellent as is the old Ormandy on Albany.
[asin]B005KNU0XO[/asin]
Hanson's 4th is currently my favorite of his symphonies. This looks like great disc.
Quote from: cilgwyn on December 14, 2011, 06:08:16 AM
Without question,a misunderstood,neglected masterpiece & I will now spend 800 words explaining why! ;D Actually,I think this is the one Dundonnell keeps warning us about! In the words of the Chuckle Brothers :o,Oh dear,oh dear,Oh dear! I can't even see a front rank orchestra doing much with that one....or wanting to!!! Roy Harris's No 1 achilles heel,his staunch patriotism! Yuk!
Still,even Beethoven had his Wellington Victory.........although,that was a shattering masterpiece by comparison!
Come on Albany records,let's have a recording (if I'm not careful they WILL! :o)
Don Gillis,all is forgiven!!!!!!
I am afraid that I did warn you about the Bicentennial Symphony and I regret to say that Nos. 10 and 12 are not much better. No.10 "Abraham Lincoln" is scored for speaker, chorus, piano, brass and percussion and No.12 "Pere Marquette" for tenor, speaker and orchestra.
Listen to them by all means-if you can ;D-and decide for yourselves but it seems to me that, with the exception of No.11, Harris went sadly completely off the boil towards the end of his life and that his later efforts do absolutely nothing for his reputation :(
Quote from: Dundonnell on December 14, 2011, 05:20:29 PM
I am afraid that I did warn you about the Bicentennial Symphony and I regret to say that Nos. 10 and 12 are not much better. No.10 "Abraham Lincoln" is scored for speaker, chorus, piano, brass and percussion and No.12 "Pere Marquette" for tenor, speaker and orchestra.
Listen to them by all means-if you can ;D-and decide for yourselves but it seems to me that, with the exception of No.11, Harris went sadly completely off the boil towards the end of his life and that his later efforts do absolutely nothing for his reputation :(
What's another Symphony (by someone else) that makes you sad like this? I MUST know!
Quote from: cilgwyn on December 14, 2011, 08:55:11 AM
Anyone want to continue this thread?!!! :o
A few more people will discover the 3rd, read this Thread,... and then some will get a few more well chosen discs,... and some?,... some will read this Thread, and STILL go out and buy everything Harris has. They will then come back here and pretend that they weren't warned. It's called denial. ;) 8)
Still, the 3rd is near and dear to me. Nothing else will do. For that, his immortality (uh...on this Forum) is secure.
Harris = Sibelius if he had written only the 7th Symphony and nothing else of significance
Is that a fair assessment?
Quote from: snyprrr on December 14, 2011, 05:45:11 PM
What's another Symphony (by someone else) that makes you sad like this? I MUST know!
Oooh....that's a difficult question ::)
There are last symphonies by composers which make me sad either because they could not or did not continue to compose(Bruckner's 9th, Sibelius's 7th, Shostakovich's 15th for example), there are last symphonies which demonstrate a waning of skills(Bax's 7th), or last/later symphonies which are written in an idiom I can no longer understand fully(Tippett's 3rd and 4th) and there are last symphonies which are just plain because they were meant to be(Schmidt's 4th, Peter Mennin's 9th, Malcolm Arnold's 9th).....but these are just examples snatched from my memory very quickly :)
Personally,I believe a man (or woman) should be judged by their best work & the fact that Harris's muse went off the boil,towards the end of his life,doesn't lessen my opinion of Harris's best work & I really don't see why it should. I think that this happens with allot of creative people;they run out of ideas or they get stuck in some kind of rut. In Harris's case I think he felt under allot of pressure to try and recreate,somehow,his earlier success. From my understanding of what I have read about Harris,he was a bit egotistical & he couldn't really come to terms with falling of that high pedestal. In my opinion a bit more of a sense of humour would have helped;but then it's easy to judge other people I suppose.
Another point I would like to make is that,in my opinion,musical compositions that incorporate speech do tend to be a bit awful,especially ones expressing some kind of political sentiment or ideal. Although,there are decent examples. In my opinion,with the right speaker,Arthur Bliss's 'Morning Heroes' is actually quite stirring. But then again,Bliss wasn't such an egotist & seems to have had a sense of humour. Listening through piles of Roy Harris cds this week,a sense of humour really does seem to be the one thing that was badly missing. All those sonorous brass interjections and that solemn striding patriotism can get to you after a while! Copland and Ives,unlike Harris,knew that the best way to make serious music truly appealing,was to leaven it with a bit of humour,which is why,after ten hours of non stop super patriot Roy Harris,Coplands great third symphony feels like dancing around in a feather coat (not that I ever do,of course! :o).
Having said that,I DO still feel that there IS more to Harris than the third & I would rate,just a small handful,very highly,although,I'm not saying I believe there are any great masterpieces there. Even I have to admit that the third has got to be THE high pinnacle of his achievement,although,maybe No 7 is,in some ways,arguably more subtle? And then there's No 6,which is in my opinion,a tremendous achievement,although here again,maybe Harris piles on the patriotic rhetoric a little too obviously. Which brings me back to Don Gillis,and the fact that,whatever you might think of his music or his symphonies,at least the man had a sense of humour. In fact after ten hours of non stop Roy Harris,Don Gillis's Star Spangled Symphony might just be the perfect pick me up! ;D
I am glad that Harris is getting a little back and forth here. I took the 3rd with me yesterday but didn't get around to it (will soon), and may look into some of those old Albany discs.
Besides,... ANYTHING to keep the Brian Thread from the top, haha!!
As a regular there,I must admit,I DO actually find that quite funny! ;D
Well,the Henry Cowell thread didn't work!!!
Actually,what Havergal Brian has that Roy Harris doesn't have is a cult following! How do we turn Roy Harris into a minor cult figure? It could do wonders for his cause!
Maybe that Bicentennial Symphony could have some value after all? ;D
Quote from: Harry on December 14, 2011, 12:17:02 AM
I like Harris and Schuman very much, have a lot of their music. That said, to discuss whether their music is great or not, is a very personal one. And that's my criteria, if I like it its good, if I like it very much its great, whether or not others agree with me. Life is so simple.
The above post says it all. A marvel of concision!
On a more positive note. My symphony by symphony attempt to analyse my Roy Harris marathon (as I call it) has helped me to sort out (in my own mind) why I like & even admire some of Roy Harris's music even though some (allot of) other people don't. Also,my posts might help some other people decide which symphonies they would like to try first,or even whether they're worth bothering about at all! ;D As an added bonus,they may even provide some therapeutic relief to sufferers of chronic insomnia looking for a good nights sleep!!! If so,please email me & I might be able to make some money out of you're insomnia with a sideline in self help 'tapes' :). Indeed,long before I joined this forum,as a member,it was Vandermolen & Dundonnell's posts about Charles Tournemire that were the tipping point for my buying every recording I could find of the fascinating symphonies of that very interesting and intriguing composer.
Yes, and Jeffrey and I still collect our regular monthly commission from the Tournemire Estate ;D ;D
Thanks for your heroic reival of this thread, against all odds, cilgwyn (many like this languish in silence).
I don't know the composer well at all, but it's quite sad to read about the composer's apparent decline. The Youtube linked piece was surprisingly unlistenable. I am usually okay with composers re-treading ground, or with their abilities failing but still able to produce music of worth (Arnold). But Harris seems to have taken a different route - re-treading, AND seriously misjudged aesthetic choices? It is interesting the mentions that many of his later symphonies are bad, but also the sadness that Naxos aborted their cycle - am I missing a factor here, as that seems perhaps a wise choice now they recorded a few of the middle ones?
What are the go-to discs of his better pieces (other than the third symphony which I have a couple of)? I have copies of two Bay Cities discs (Piano Concerto/Toccata and Symphony for Band w/ Robert Russell Bennett) but they haven't made an impression yet.
Roy Harris: Symphony No.l (1933)*; Symphony No.5+; and Violin Concerto**:Gregory Fulkerson(violin) with the Louisville Orchestra(Jorge Mester*,Robert Whitney+ and
Lawrence Leighton Smith**)
Symphony No.2; and Morton Gould: Symphony No.3: Albany Symphony Orchestra(David Alan Miller)
Symphony No.3; and William Schuman: Symphony No.3: New York Philharmonic Orchestra(Leonard Bernstein)
Symphony No.3; and Symphony No.4 "Folksong Symphony"; Colorado Symphony Orchestra(Marin Alsop)
Symphony No.3*; and Aaron Copland: Concerto for Clarinet, Strings, Harp and Piano+; and Ballet "Appalachian Spring"**; and Charles Ives: "Central Park in the Dark"++: Robert
Plane(clarinet)+, the B.B.C.Symphony Orchestra (Grant Llewellyn* and Lawrence Foster++), the Ulster Orchestra (Thierry Fischer)** and the B.B.C. National Orchestra of
Wales(Eric Stern)+
Symphony No.4 "Folksong Symphony"*; and Paul Creston: Gregorian Chant for String Orchestra+: American Festival Orchestra(Vladimir Golschmann)* and the New York Chamber
Orchestra(Arthur Lief)+
Symphony No.5; Symphony No.6 "Gettysburg"' and "Acceleration" for orchestra:Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra(Marin Alsop)
Symphony No.6 "Gettysburg"; Samuel Barber: Capricorn Concerto,and Essay No.1 for Orchestra; and Aaron Copland: Saga of the Prairies: Pacific Symphony Orchestra(Keith Clark)
Symphony No.6; and Roy Harris: Symphony No.7: New Zealand Symphony Orchestra(Hugh Keelan)
Symphony No.6; and Roy Harris: Symphony No.7; and Walter Piston: Symphony No.4: Philadelphia Orchestra(Eugene Ormandy)
Symphony No.7; Symphony No.9; and "Epilogue to Profiles in Courage-J.F.K.":National Symphony Orchestra of the Ukraine(Theodore Kuchar)
Symphony No.8 ("San Francisco Symphony")*; Symphony No.9; and "Memories of a Child's Sunday": Alan Feinberg(piano)* and the Albany Symphony Orchestra(David Alan Miller)
Symphony No.11; and Douglas Moore: Symphony No.2; and Cecil Effinger:Little Symphony No.1; and Morton Gould: Cowboy Rhapsody: Sinfonia Varsovia(Ian Hobson)
Concerto for Two Pianos and Orchestra; and Pierre Max Dubois: Concerto Italien for Two Pianos and Orchestra; and Arthur Benjamin: North American Square Dance
Suite for Two Pianos and Orchestra: Joshua Pierce(piano), Dorothy Jonas(piano) and the Slovak Radio Symphony Orchestra(Kirk Trevor)
(William Schuman) Symphony No.4;and Prayer in Time of War; John Becker:Symphonia Brevis(Symphony No.3); and Roy Harris:"When Johnny Comes Marching Home"(An American
Overture); Epilogues to Profiles in Courage:JFK*: Louisville Orchestra(Jorge Mester and Robert Whitney*)
Please forgive my self-indulgence in listing all the Roy Harris cds in my collection ;D ;D
Of these, the ones I would recommend most highly would be the Louisville version of the (First) Symphony and No.5....if you can find it ???
Bernstein in No.3
Either Alsop or Golschmann in No.4
Either Ormandy or Clark(preferable, in my opinion) to Alsop in No.6
Either Ormandy or Kuchar in No.7
Miller in No.8
Either Miller or Kuchar in No.9
Cilgwyn has written at considerable length and very perceptively about these symphonies. Nos. 3, 5, 6 and 7 are indeed probably the best with Nos. 8 and 9 just behind in that order.
I haven't included the labels(I just copied and pasted from my own catalogue) but they shouldn't be hard to identify :)
Quote from: Lethevich Dmitriyevna Pettersonova on December 15, 2011, 04:55:52 PM
What are the go-to discs of his better pieces (other than the third symphony which I have a couple of)? I have copies of two Bay Cities discs (Piano Concerto/Toccata and Symphony for Band w/ Robert Russell Bennett) but they haven't made an impression yet.
oo oo that's the one I want,... I mean, need ::) ;D
Quote from: Dundonnell on December 15, 2011, 05:47:53 PM
Roy Harris: Symphony No.l (1933)*; Symphony No.5+; and Violin Concerto**:Gregory Fulkerson(violin) with the Louisville Orchestra(Jorge Mester*,Robert Whitney+ and
Lawrence Leighton Smith**)
Symphony No.2; and Morton Gould: Symphony No.3: Albany Symphony Orchestra(David Alan Miller)
Symphony No.3; and William Schuman: Symphony No.3: New York Philharmonic Orchestra(Leonard Bernstein)
Symphony No.3; and Symphony No.4 "Folksong Symphony"; Colorado Symphony Orchestra(Marin Alsop)
Symphony No.3*; and Aaron Copland: Concerto for Clarinet, Strings, Harp and Piano+; and Ballet "Appalachian Spring"**; and Charles Ives: "Central Park in the Dark"++: Robert
Plane(clarinet)+, the B.B.C.Symphony Orchestra (Grant Llewellyn* and Lawrence Foster++), the Ulster Orchestra (Thierry Fischer)** and the B.B.C. National Orchestra of
Wales(Eric Stern)+
Symphony No.4 "Folksong Symphony"*; and Paul Creston: Gregorian Chant for String Orchestra+: American Festival Orchestra(Vladimir Golschmann)* and the New York Chamber
Orchestra(Arthur Lief)+
Symphony No.5; Symphony No.6 "Gettysburg"' and "Acceleration" for orchestra:Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra(Marin Alsop)
Symphony No.6 "Gettysburg"; Samuel Barber: Capricorn Concerto,and Essay No.1 for Orchestra; and Aaron Copland: Saga of the Prairies: Pacific Symphony Orchestra(Keith Clark)
Symphony No.6; and Roy Harris: Symphony No.7: New Zealand Symphony Orchestra(Hugh Keelan)
Symphony No.6; and Roy Harris: Symphony No.7; and Walter Piston: Symphony No.4: Philadelphia Orchestra(Eugene Ormandy)
Symphony No.7; Symphony No.9; and "Epilogue to Profiles in Courage-J.F.K.":National Symphony Orchestra of the Ukraine(Theodore Kuchar)
Symphony No.8 ("San Francisco Symphony")*; Symphony No.9; and "Memories of a Child's Sunday": Alan Feinberg(piano)* and the Albany Symphony Orchestra(David Alan Miller)
Symphony No.11; and Douglas Moore: Symphony No.2; and Cecil Effinger:Little Symphony No.1; and Morton Gould: Cowboy Rhapsody: Sinfonia Varsovia(Ian Hobson)
Concerto for Two Pianos and Orchestra; and Pierre Max Dubois: Concerto Italien for Two Pianos and Orchestra; and Arthur Benjamin: North American Square Dance
Suite for Two Pianos and Orchestra: Joshua Pierce(piano), Dorothy Jonas(piano) and the Slovak Radio Symphony Orchestra(Kirk Trevor)
(William Schuman) Symphony No.4;and Prayer in Time of War; John Becker:Symphonia Brevis(Symphony No.3); and Roy Harris:"When Johnny Comes Marching Home"(An American
Overture); Epilogues to Profiles in Courage:JFK*: Louisville Orchestra(Jorge Mester and Robert Whitney*)
Please forgive my self-indulgence in listing all the Roy Harris cds in my collection ;D ;D
Of these, the ones I would recommend most highly would be the Louisville version of the (First) Symphony and No.5....if you can find it ???
Bernstein in No.3
Either Alsop or Golschmann in No.4
Either Ormandy or Clark(preferable, in my opinion) to Alsop in No.6
Either Ormandy or Kuchar in No.7
Miller in No.8
Either Miller or Kuchar in No.9
Cilgwyn has written at considerable length and very perceptively about these symphonies. Nos. 3, 5, 6 and 7 are indeed probably the best with Nos. 8 and 9 just behind in that order.
I haven't included the labels(I just copied and pasted from my own catalogue) but they shouldn't be hard to identify :)
Buy the whole lot.........................................and then go to Tesco's! ;D
Not sure about the 'heroic' bit. There are some people who might not thank me for reviving the Roy Harris great American Patriot Symphony thread!!! ;D
Incidentally,I'm currently listening to some interesting 50's recordings of Copland & Grofe. Disregarding the actual music itself;the sound quality of the Felix Slatkin recordings of Grofe's Grand Canyon & Mississsippi Suites is,in my humble opinion, astonishing for 1954! I had to check the dates in the booklet;the recordings sound that good. Yet,Grofe's own recordings of his Death Valley Suite & Cloudburst from only two years later are flat,dry & constricted & in mono (or,in a word,'lousy!) I wonder if you've heard these recordings (I'd be amazed if you haven't! ;D) Annoyingly,the booklet doesn't tell you anything about the remastering processes involved. This also goes for some of the Everest & Mercury recordings which I have collected,recently. Astonishingly vivid recordings for their time.
Incidentally, another question for you Dundonnell,which I & possibly some other people are burning to ask (and don't take this the wrong way!),are there any recordings of classical music you HAVEN'T heard or DON'T own?!!!! :o
In answer to your specific question directed to me ;D
If we are talking about (mostly tonal ;D ;D) orchestral music written after about 1890 then I would hope to have one version in my collection, (possibly two versions, and in a few cases three of the greatest symphonies). I also have the symphonies and concertos of the great 19th century masters.
I don't do chamber music though and no opera(with the exception of Wagner). The whole concept of having 10+ versions of a particular work is completely alien to my collecting practice. Breadth rather than depth ??? ???
I have recently downloaded 239 new symphonies, not otherwise available commercially, including 71 British symphonies ;D ;D
Indeed! Life and the wallet are just too short,aren't they? I gather Albion has a similar policy.
There are some exceptions in my collection,however. For instance,I have allot of recordings of Elgar's Enigma Variations (sorry Mr Harris! We'll come back to you! :o) & Holst's Planets in my collection,from the first few decades of the last century ie the various Boult recordings,Henry Wood,Hamilton Harty,Sargent,Monteux,etc & of course,the composers themselves. I collected these because of my interest in British music & the historical practice & recording of these works. The Enigma Variations,in particular,whether you like it or not,has enormous historical importance (and,blah!blah! I don't need to tell you that! :o). Also,first recordings of compositions,particularly by composers or people involved with them do interest me. But umpteen Mahler & Beethoven cycles are a little beyond my budget & I'm not sure if there is allot of point. On the other hand,going back to American music,I DO think the Bernstein & Gould recordings of Copland's 'Billy the Kid & Rodeo beat Slatkins hands down & Coplands LSO recording of his third symphony gets more play time on my cd player (as does Mata's) than Bernsteins & it's interesting comparing them ie " Cor! Those gunshots better than Bernstein's!!!!" So,I can see the value in collecting multiple perspectives,but not if it means starving,having no heating in the middle of the winter & having baliffs hammering on my front door! :(
PS: Maybe I could start a Ferde Grofe thread? There may be some people out there who really do have a burning desire to know which recordings have the best donkey bray or the loudest thunderclaps.....and,oh my g** Tomita did one! :( (Telarc has the real claps,I mean Thunder one's!) It could save them allot of money.Multiple recordings of Grofe's Grand Canyon suite could be detrimental to you're bank balance! :o
Upfront ???
I have around 2800 cds in my collection plus a lot of LPs and around 266 reel-to-reel tapes with about six hours of music on each tape. I chose the versions of each piece of orchestral music based on the opinions of a variety of critics(few of whom are still active or indeed alive ::)) If there a piece of orchestral music written in my timeframe that is not too "advanced" for my tastes then I want it in my collection. Having 20+ versions of a Mahler symphony is not for me.
Simple as ;D
I like Mahler,but I feel the same about multiple collections,although I would quite like the Mahler 4 with Lucia Popp,but only because I'm a sucker for that sadly missed (gone before her 'time') singer. Also Neumann doing Mahler DOES sound interesting as it's an interesting enough perspective.................but then I won't be able to afford anything else! So,that's why I tend to agree with you here,with minor exceptions!
Of course I could make allot of friends on the Mahler thread!!!
Having said that,if a really first rate,critically aclaimed,integrated Roy Harris cycle ever comes along,I will probably consider collecting,at least some,of it...............although,I may defer on No's 10,12 & that Bicentennial one! :o
But then again,in the highly unlikely situation,that yet another one came along,I might desist!!!!!! Multiple Roy Harris cycles? The mind boggles & indeed the ambulance awaits!
The MGM soundtrack for the movie 'Kiss me Kate' is on the Sennheiser cordless headphones at the moment! ;D
(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/4765/slatkingrandcanyonsuite.jpg)
By dinasman (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/dinasman) at 2011-12-16
After hours of non stop Roy Harris,Ferde Grofe sounded like Claude Debussy! ;D
Copland and Grofe are still on! I need a respite before I go back to Harris,just in case my enthusiasm WAS a mere rush of blood to the old head!
It'll be No 7,for starters,since this is the one that Harris believers usually rate as the next best after the 3rd. It has even been cited,by some commentators, as THE greater work.
Must get to the bottom of this one,Watson!
One thing I DO notice about Harris,which may prove in his favour. Like Henry Cowell & to a lesser extent,Robert Simpson,he does seem to get some people riled up eg: if I leave enthusiastic posts about Cyril Scott or Pizzetti,for example,no one could care less;but if I post anything even slightly complimentary about Cowell or Harris anyone who dislikes their music or had a negative response seems to want to let me know about it or why I shouldn't like what I'm hearing.
Englebert Humperdinck's another one! You wouldn't believe the hate emails I received after I said I thought 'Dornroschen' was a finer work than either Hansel und Gretel or Konigskinder! One of them informing me,in no uncertain terms,that Tom Jones is a better singer! :o
Holst's Cloud Messenger is on now AND Cilgwyn's dusted Lemon Sole,mixed vegetables & potatoes!!! I'll be eating the latter. Food for thought!
Harris Seven later!
Quote from: Dundonnell on December 15, 2011, 04:24:04 PM
Yes, and Jeffrey and I still collect our regular monthly commission from the Tournemire Estate ;D ;D
I was just thinking. Judging by the endless stream of Tournemire cds,these days,I'm not sure the Tournemire estate are doing too well out of this arrangement! ;D
I just wondered where that Roy Harris thread had got to! :D
Quote from: cilgwyn on December 29, 2011, 04:17:32 AM
I just wondered where that Roy Harris thread had got to! :D
It had to take a nap after all that last week! ;) It's the Roy Harris Thread after all!! sleepy...
After ten Roy Harris symphonies in a row,much as I DO enjoy SOME of them,now and again,I think I needed a kip myself! :o
Meanwhile,back to the ever burgeoning Havergal Brian thread!!!!! ;D
Quote from: Dundonnell on December 14, 2011, 05:20:29 PM
I am afraid that I did warn you about the Bicentennial Symphony and I regret to say that Nos. 10 and 12 are not much better. No.10 "Abraham Lincoln" is scored for speaker, chorus, piano, brass and percussion and No.12 "Pere Marquette" for tenor, speaker and orchestra.
Listen to them by all means-if you can ;D-and decide for yourselves but it seems to me that, with the exception of No.11, Harris went sadly completely off the boil towards the end of his life and that his later efforts do absolutely nothing for his reputation :(
I have recently given the Harris Symphonies Nos. 10 "Abraham Lincoln", 12 "Pere Marquette" and 13/14 "Bicentennial Symphony" another go.
The word is that Naxos has decided to abort their planned Harris symphonic cycle. If this is true I wonder whether it is because Marin Alsop or whoever has actually now studied these works. They really are
dreadful :( :(
I write this in genuine deep sadness. I love several of the earlier Harris symphonies but, clearly, after No.9 his muse almost completely deserted him. No.11 is an exception; there is something to be said for both Nos. 9 and 11. But the 10th, 11th and 12th :o :o
No.10 and 12 are just plain boring, No.12 in particular is an interminable dirge. The Bicentennial-originally numbered No.14 out of superstition but now, sometimes, numbered as his 13th-must qualify as possibly the worst symphony ever written. It elevates banality to the very pinnacle of horror. Whether it sounded much better at its first (and last) fully professional performance by the National Symphony Orchestra of Washington I don't know.....but judging by the critics' reactions I have my doubts. The version I have heard-and the work can be heard if you are sufficient of a masochist on YouTube-is horrendously embarrassing :(
It occurs to me to wonder about composers who, frankly, 'lost it' towards the end of their lives but went on composing when they would have been better to have stopped.
This would be more of a 20th century issue, I imagine, given that composers generally died much younger in previous centuries.
We all know that Sibelius stopped composing or at least preserving his compositions, for his own reasons, more than 25 years before his death. If I had to instance some 20th century composers whose inspiration seems to have seriously waned at least ten years before their deaths......
Elgar
Bax
Walton ???
....spring to mind.
There are the sad cases of Aaron Copland and Sir Lennox Berkeley: both struck down by dementia :(
Are there others ??? ???
Indeed! It could have been embarassing for her! :o Having said that,I'm rather glad she stopped. I think the one's Kuchar did were much better. I found his interpretation of No 7 very stirring! I wish he could have done the others. Having said that,I changed my mind about Alsop's Fifth after a few listens. I think it's quite good,once she 'gets into it'. The opening seems hesitant & underpowered,but it WAS great to hear it in modern sound. I like Harris's Fifth. It's not ground breaking like the third,but it's so grand,so epic. It evokes all kinds of images of vast American landscapes & I hate to say this,but,unsuprisingly, 'Monument Valley',DOES pop up! But then again,what's wrong with that? :);D I only wish Albany were more interested in doing some more recordings of the good Harris symphonies instead of the kind of stuff they keep churning out. Also Diamond,Mennin and Piston.What's wrong with them?!!!
Harris sounds egotistical & his partiotism was an embarassment,but I DO think a composer should be judged on his best work. Having said that,any record label that ever contemplates a complete cycle has got some very sweaty decision making to do! I really DON'T envy them! Even Don Gillis's worst symphonies aren't as bad as those!!!!
NB: I bet they DO get recorded by someone,eventually! :o Maybe someone like Dame Edna Everage could liven them up? Or Barack Obama,if he wants to get voted out!!! ;D
Quote from: Dundonnell on February 03, 2012, 07:35:32 AM
They really are dreadful :( :(
I write this in genuine deep sadness. I
after No.9 his muse almost completely deserted him.
his 13th-must qualify as possibly the worst symphony ever written. It elevates banality to the very pinnacle of horror.
can be heard if you are sufficient of a masochist on YouTube-is horrendously embarrassing :(
The
Plan 9 from Outer Space of Symphonies?
bwah ha ha... yes, Yes, YES!!!
I feel your pain. :'( However, now we have something other than Florence Foster Jenkins to clear the room, if needs be! ;)
Quote from: snyprrr on February 03, 2012, 01:46:58 PM
I feel your pain. :'( However, now we have something other than Florence Foster Jenkins to clear the room, if needs be! ;)
Banality has never sent people packing.
Quote from: snyprrr on December 14, 2011, 05:33:19 AM
This may be the worst thing I've ever heard:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrvFtRPgIHs&feature=related
WARNING!: This may permanently damage your opinion of RH, but, hey,... I just chalk it up to the '70s! ;)
I don't know how you can tell how bad it is with such a poor performance.
I was over at YT listening to No. 11 and it sounds pretty good, though perhaps too typical. Harris sounds best to my ears when he moves away from the stylistic trap he set with his first 3 symphonies. I think he did this with No. 6. It still sounds like Harris but less insistently so, and with more variety.
Anyway No. 11 settles the decline question for me as far as 1967. It was decline of the common kind and not dementia.
Tend to agree with you. No 11 has some interesting,ear tickling textures & I like his use of the piano,but it is a re-tread! I mean,he did this in No 8,didn't he?
I love No 6 in the Pacific SO recording. A very exciting reading & like you say it's more varied than some of his symphonies. I think it's a very powerful symphony,actually. But,Harris's gung ho patriotism can get a bit much at times.
After that,No 7 & 5 get my vote,for next best. In that order. I recently listened to the Kuchar recording of No 7 & found it VERY exciting. But again,that patriotism? It's like John Wayne leading the green beret's,or something. You need a rest afterwards & maybe some Copland or Walter Piston,who's probably my favourite American symphonist,if I HAD to pick one at gun point!
Harris 13,the new Gorecki 3! You never know?!!! :o
The Harris Symphony No.11 is an odd sort of work. Harris appears to be trying to conjure up again all those bold, heroic brass fanfares which so characterise the mid-period symphonies but with more 'modern' dissonances added in for good measure. Within the confines of this relatively short piece he just about gets away with it.
I have no idea what was going through his head in the 1960s. He was, apparently, distressed by the changes which were occurring in his native country, political upheaval, social change and so on. The old optimisms seem to have been disappearing.
And he writes three works which he chooses-possibly unwisely- to call symphonies: No.10 "Abraham Lincoln" for speaker, chorus, brass, percussion and two pianos(1965), No.12 "Pere Marquette" for tenor/speaker and orchestra(1968/69) and the Bicentennial Symphony for speakers, chorus and orchestra(1975/76), two of which use the iconography of American History but in such a frankly feeble fashion that it is difficult to know what to think.
My sad conclusion is that Harris was basically a one-dimensional composer who, at his best, could produce exciting, rousing, patriotically-infused music but just went on recycling the same basic theme, could find no new ideas and, in using, choral and other orchestral resources found the old ideas coming unstuck.
I tend to agree with you're conclusions,Dundonnell. This is one instance where recordings have broadened our experience and understanding of Harris's symphonic output;although,unfortunately, not in the way we,or Harris himself,might have hoped! :(
Excited as I was,as a youngster, by a broadcast recording of Harris's Sixth,my local libraries Lp of his Fifth & Bernsteins recording of his epochal third,that is a conclusion I genuinely,deeply,regret! :(
On a slightly more positive note,new first rate recordings of Harris's Fifth & Seventh would still be welcome & for a 'one dimensional' composer (I know what you mean),they're pretty good,in their own way (especially 7)! ;D Also,Harris's wildly uneven Fourth DOES have some rather lovely bits 'in there' amongst the dross, & something newer & better than the 'flabby' Alsop recording would be quite nice to have in my collection......but NOT essential!
Furthermore,while it was interesting to get to hear 8 & 9, I really DID quite enjoy making the aquaintance of No 11. Flawed as it is,there's allot of drivel being touted around,that's far less worth hearing than this & the Albany recording & performance was exemplary!
And No 6 as performed by the Pacific SO,really IS in my humble opinion (& in VERY unintellectual terminology,indeed) a bit of a cracker & deserves more performances. than it gets. So,maybe there's some 'life' in the 'old dog' yet?! ;D
But,10,12 & 13!!!! :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
I'm playing Delius at the moment! :)
The 6th indicated that Harris might not have been as one dimensional as he later became. It looks like his inspiration dried up and he fell back on what he knew best, or what had worked best to get played, which was the style of the early symphonies (1-3). I think the middle period showed considerable variety (from the 4th at least as far as the 7th).
Quote from: drogulus on February 04, 2012, 01:56:50 PM
It looks like his inspiration dried up and he fell back
No one has brought up the ills of alcoholism. I have got to believe that thorough personal research would reveal a sadder truth than we are perhaps willing to admit.
Perhaps
I suppose,if you wanted to be nasty,you could just say,3,5,6 & 7 were good and the rest are crap! Or No 3 & the rest are crap!!!! ;D (Excuse the language!)
But when I'm in the right mood the right Harris symphony can be quite stirring!
No 3 is unquestionably the GREAT one,IF one of them is?
My runner up is No 6,as performed by the Pacific SO,because if I'd heard it only in the Alsop/Naxos rendition,I wouldn't think so much of it. As 'Drogulus' observed,it is more varied & unlike No 7,it's not in 'one movement',which is ALWAYS going to make No 7 a target for unfavourable comparisons,whatever it's merits,or lack of them? Furthermore,the mood is reasonably varied,it's not so relentlessly 'God Bless America' heroic' & some of Harris's writing in the quiet,reflective parts of the symphony is very beautiful,almost like an American Martinu,but not quite! ;D Wonderful really,if only he could have come up with a bit more of this sort of thing.
If this was the only Roy Harris symphony I'd ever heard,I'd probably be quite impressed & wanting to hear more!
And that's the trouble! :(
Mind you,anyone who thinks Harris did just write the same sort of symphony OVER & OVER AGAIN,should try listening to a couple of Alan Hovhaness's symphonies in a row! (And I DO quite like SOME Hovhaness!)
Memories of a Child's Sunday really IS a lovely little work & suggests what Harris might have been capable if he'd had more of a sense of b**** humour! This little gem is included on Albany's cd of Harris's eighth & ninth which is entitled 'THE Great American Ninth!" How unfortunate that the best & most enjoyable piece of music on the entire cd is,in actual fact, the 'fill up'! ;D (Lots of enthusiastic 'listener' reviews of the symphonies on this cd,on the Amazon site,I note!)
To be fair to Harris,if I thought his music really was that lousy, (or crap?!!! ;D)I wouldn't have written all this & my Harris cds would have headed off for the charity shop,by now! (Alsop's 3 & 4,are down there,already! ;D) Maybe,'problematic' is the right word for him?
I DO find him a bit of a puzzle,to say the least! :o
Others might be less polite! ;D
Quote from: cilgwyn on February 05, 2012, 04:28:27 AM
I suppose,if you wanted to be nasty,you could just say,3,5,6 & 7 were good and the rest are crap! Or No 3 & the rest are crap!!!! ;D (Excuse the language!)
The first one is good (Symphony 1933) and there were several recordings from the '30s through the '50s then everything went dark.
(http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/huh.gif) It seems that only one Harris symphony at a time was allowed until recently, regardless of merit.
What does merit mean, really? Is Twain right that Wagner's music is "better than it sounds"? What's the best music on earth that no one likes? If everyone likes shitty music, how shitty is it? I think it's very important to figure out why these questions don't have a correct answer. (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/cheesy.gif)
I first heard the 6th at a concert and later on the radio, both from Pacific Symphony under Keith Clark. I loved it to bits. But when I finally got a recording of it last year, the NAXOS recording, I could not recognise it at all.
So, get the Clark and avoid the Alsop if you can.
Quote from: springrite on February 05, 2012, 07:20:29 AM
I first heard the 6th at a concert and later on the radio, both from Pacific Symphony under Keith Clark. I loved it to bits. But when I finally got a recording of it last year, the NAXOS recording, I could not recognise it at all.
So, get the Clark and avoid the Alsop if you can.
No,the Alsop is absolutely awful,there's no comparison. I remember being excited by a broadcast of the Pacific SO Sixth back in the eighties (I think). I recorded an off air cassette,at the time. Of course,I've had the Albany cd for a while,now. There's no momentum in the Alsop ,and where's that amazing brass in the fast movement ('Conflict',I think?I haven't got the cd to hand,silly me!)? I remember hearing that & thinking,"Wow! That's wierd!". Almost as annoying & detrimental to the impact of the music as the 'missing' xylophone in the 'swimmy' Naxos (Brian) gothic!
The bounders should have put before the mast! :o ;D
NB Keith Clarke & the Pacific SO seem like the ideal team to have tackled No 5. Instead we get Alsop's flabby,but passable recording! :( Sometimes,it's not ALL Harris's fault!!!
You are absolutely on the money as far as the Alsop recordings are concerned :( And that is very sad and, indeed, unexpected-she is a very good conductor. But something just seems to have gone wrong. There is no passion, no energy, no real conviction. These are perfectly adequate, run-through performances but absolutely no more than that. If you are going to conduct a Harris symphony you have to do it with genuine brio and let the orchestra rip (as Bernstein could do, for example). Instead we get cautious, tepid readings which do Harris no favours.
Quote from: Dundonnell on February 03, 2012, 07:35:32 AMWe all know that Sibelius stopped composing or at least preserving his compositions, for his own reasons, more than 25 years before his death. If I had to instance some 20th century composers whose inspiration seems to have seriously waned at least ten years before their deaths......
Elgar
Bax
Walton ???
....spring to mind.
A number of composers' powers begin to wane after they turn 60. It's part of the cycle of life :-\
Keeping Harris and Cowell together.
Quote from: Dundonnell on February 05, 2012, 03:52:40 PM
You are absolutely on the money as far as the Alsop recordings are concerned :( And that is very sad and, indeed, unexpected-she is a very good conductor. But something just seems to have gone wrong. There is no passion, no energy, no real conviction. These are perfectly adequate, run-through performances but absolutely no more than that. If you are going to conduct a Harris symphony you have to do it with genuine brio and let the orchestra rip (as Bernstein could do, for example). Instead we get cautious, tepid readings which do Harris no favours.
I don't much care for Alsop in the Barber recordings, either. Her rendition of the
Essay for Orchestra (No. 1) is curiously light. Once again Clark conveys the gravity and intensity of the music, as does Slatkin with the St. Louis SO.
gotta bump RH with HC.
Quote from: Dundonnell on February 04, 2012, 10:20:41 AM
My sad conclusion is that Harris was basically a one-dimensional composer who, at his best, could produce exciting, rousing, patriotically-infused music but just went on recycling the same basic theme, could find no new ideas and, in using, choral and other orchestral resources found the old ideas coming unstuck.
I agree. And that's sad : I was so enthralled when I discovered the 6th and the 3rd... Afterwards, my enthusiasm went down progressively : even if the other symphonies are good, you're right, that's only the recycling of the same basic ideas. The only piece which I discoverd later and which I really enjoyed is his violin concerto.
And Alsop, yes, catastrophical. Even in Copland she's colourless and dull.
Quote from: kentel on March 02, 2012, 12:03:58 AM
I agree. And that's sad : I was so enthralled when I discovered the 6th and the 3rd... Afterwards, my enthusiasm went down progressively : even if the other symphonies are good, you're right, that's only the recycling of the same basic ideas. The only piece which I discoverd later and which I really enjoyed is his violin concerto.
And Alsop, yes, catastrophical. Even in Copland she's colourless and dull.
There's an article on her in The Post today. The Baltimore Symphony is doing a 'feminist' thing... oh, great!! ::)
Quote from: snyprrr on March 02, 2012, 05:32:47 AM
There's an article on her in The Post today. The Baltimore Symphony is doing a 'feminist' thing... oh, great!! ::)
Maybe Benny Hill should have taken up conducting?
I'm off to burn my underpants! :(
Normally I listen to the DG 3rd, but I pulled out the Sony 3rd, and wow!, what a change. Here Bernstein, or the recording, or whatever, suddenly turned the Symphony into a Civil War piece for me. One really hears the wood in this recording, and it's played, I suppose, just that much more quickly, or more urgently, so that, for me at least, the whole thing just 'sounded' differently. I keenly payed attention to every detail, and felt like I was hearing it for the first time. Perhaps I was hearing certain lines coming through the recording in a different way than in the DG, so that I was actually hearing new detail.
I Amazoned a bunch of Harris samples, and found that the SQ 3, on that Chamber Music disc, is definitely one piece that takes its cue from the 3rd. The first movement (it is a suite of sorts) really has that cool Harris sound. I'm just going to have to learn his secret (moving between modes?). The SQ 2, on that old Emerson/New World disc, is of no import, IMO. I'm ambivalent concerning the Piano Quintet, and haven't heard the Violin Sonata.
I also listened to portions of Symphonies 5-6. I had assumed I would like them (again), but feel like I could live without them for now. And, since I already know that 8-9 aren't 'Harris sounding', I may get the Albany disc again (after years and years) just as Symphonies by someone ELSE!!! I'm still curious about the Symphony for Band, though: hope strings eternal. However, I have concluded that I really ONLY need the 3rd, and with two such different yet valid takes, who could want more? I could sing that melody forever!
The Harris 3rd may be my favorite artistic expression ever; or Sibelius 7, but Harris may have it. Or Finzi. Oh, I'm so sentimental! :-[ ;D
Yes,Indeed! I tried to argue in favour of some of the other symphonies a while ago,remember? ;D But have I listened to any since?!!! :-[ The best ones really aren't THAT awful,really;it's just all that solemn patriotism & the lack of thematic variety. No 6 is still the best of the rest,as far as I'm concerned & I think it's a pretty impressive symphony. I just wish Bernstein could have recorded it. Still,the Pacific SO is as good as anyone who believes there IS life after Harris's third could hope for. And,I know I'm in danger of being sexist here,suitably macho!
If only I hadn't heard the others (bar No 3)!!! :(
But as you say,Harris's third is the only one you can hum. That great theme is as indelible as Copland's 'Fanfare for the common man. Argue as hard as you can,it has to be said,there is nothing as memorable or indelible as that theme anywhere else in Harris's output. It's as simple as that! My only suprise is that Emerson.Lake & Palmer.....oh,and Pans People ;D,didn't get round to doing it! ;D I remember,as a teenager,nearly wearing out my copies of their hilariously unsubtle prog rock take on 'Hoedown' & the eponymous,Fanfare!
Tut! Tut!!! ??? ::)
(Good musicians to be fair,but NOT subtle!!! :o)
My goodness! Am I really admitting that I listened to ELP! :o
This is a serious thread!!! ::)
On second thoughts,maybe the sheer unremitting seriousness & patriotism of Roy Harris's muse makes you snatch at frivolous topics,like OTT prog rock interpretations of classical music,as some kind of light relief?
Or what about Harris's Seventh followed by an episode of Red Dwarf?!!
But the fact that I could even suggest such an idea only underlines the quality of Harris's inspiration in his only 'hit'!
On a more positive note,none of Harris's symphonies are so terrible that I will be donating them to a charity shop. At least,not yet! ;D Although the Naxos 3 & 4 WILL be going there. But that's largely down to the performances themselves,fair play! ;D
And a further thought. Is hanging onto you're Roy Harris cd's (if you do!) just wish fulfilment. Harris's third is SO good that you are convinced that somewhere in his output there must be something as good? Surely,SURELY,there MUST be SOMETHING there in all those symphonies that's just,or even,NEARLY as good? And maybe,MAYBE,one fine day you'll find it,like the Lost chord,or,better still,the Roy Harris version of Eldorado (the place,not the ill fated Beeb soap!) nestling there,just waiting for you,somewhere? Although,sadly,now that the remaining Harris symphonies have all been recorded or made available (to all too horrid effect) on 'Youtube',there isn't really even any hope of that! Or maybe,snatching at straws,another Bernstein,who could make the sixth or Seventh sound like the truly shattering masterpiece they probably aren't!
Also,even if Harris's third,Sixth or Seventh do,somehow,against all the odds,work their way back into the concert halls,what about the others?!!! No 8 may be proof that Harris COULD do something a little different,but is it really a symphony or an exercise in sonorities & intriguing ear tickling timbres. It strikes me right now as possibly the closest Harris's ever came to minimalism. Oh,and what about those peculiar titles? I can see allot of head scratching over that. What the heck was Harris thinking of? I've read the booklet notes with the cd,but it's still a bit peculiar!
The Fifth could sound quite good,possibly,but the sheer perfection of No 3 is,presumably, always going to be used as a comparison. I might enjoy it,so might Joe Bloggs,but the critics don't work that way.
And then you've got No 9,which is more or less an uneven retread of No 7,and so it goes on. As to No 10 & the ones with the bloke yapping,I think they're just going to have to miss those ones out! :o
Of course,there is always the outside chance that we've all got Harris wrong & maybe he WAS just interested in exploring sonorities,or something & the fact that they aren't all strikingly different is our problem NOT his? Maybe,he's like an American Rubbra (over to you Dundonnell! ;D?). But having ventured that,how does that explain the crassness of the one on Youtube? Unless I'm the aural equivalent of Mr Magoo,I really can't see how there could possibly be any musical value in that,with the best will in the world. A Paul Robeson in his prime might make it sound a bit better than it is,but that's about all! :( :( :( And,what about Walter Piston,who is,very possibly,my favourite American symphonist? Superficially,Piston's symphonies may appear to lack variety,but listen through the set a little more closely & there's a range of mood and expression,which you just don't find in you're average Roy Harris symphony. My goodness,there are even barn dances & humour!!! :o ;D Indeed,the First edition recordings of No's 5,7 & 8, are real eye openers;particulaly No 8. I find it quite shocking that these are the only available recordings! :o >:(
"(Harris is) like an American Rubbra.....?"
I actually find it hard to imagine two 'relatively conservative' symphonists more dissimilar.
Harris is an American nationalist, a patriotic upholder of the American Dream, of heritage and of tradition, bold, sometimes brash, sometimes strident, a composer very much of external impression and force whose appeal is essentially visceral.
Rubbra was once referred to by the eminent musicologist Wilfred Mellers as a composer of dual nature, in the world but not of it. His music looks inward, it has a seriousness of purpose which is as far removed from the 'nationalist English pastoralists' as it is from that of a composer like Harris. There is, to me of course (I can only speak personally), a profound spirituality in Rubbra's music which does not reveal itself easily and will never appeal to those who seek instant gratification through surface glitter or glamour.
We think of Vaughan Williams as an almost quintessentially 'English composer' and there is, superficially, a considerable degree of difference between his music and that of Rubbra. Yet RVW held Rubbra in enormous esteem and considered him as his natural successor as a British symphonist. Both composer's music, and certainly RVW's best, was infused with a similar spirituality.
....and if by your remark you are implying that all Rubbra sounds the same then all I can do is to urge you to listen more often and with greater attention than you may have had the opportunity to do in the past.
There is never going a Rubbra bandwagon. We are never likely to be cracking jokes about him- although the reality was that alongside his profound religious beliefs Rubbra was a man of great passions, a man whose private life was as colourful as many other composers. But I can immerse myself in Rubbra's music in a way I can with few other composers.
(and...did you know-just a throw-away parting thought- that Rubbra's Second Symphony, no less, was the one which Sir Adrian Boult would have taken as one of his eight Desert Island Discs :)).
Now you've done it, and woken up Dun! ;)
Roy Harris,an American Rubbra! :o :o No,no Dundonell,I was not suggesting that,at all,I was just making a point,rest assured. I was merely casting out for some kind of comparison & not being that well versed in Rubbra's output,unlike yourself ;D,that is why I included the,bracketed,"Over to you!" They are obviously very different composers as you so eloquently explain. I think I was referring to the fact that they both composed (except in two instances) purely orchestral symphonies & the fact that Rubbra tends to stick to what he's good at. He's not exactly wildly adventurous,is he? I know that allot of unkind critics would point to allot of 'grey' 'unremitting counterpoint' & 'seriousness'. When you put on another Rubbra symphony you 'kind of' know what to expect!
Harris's meandering eighth sounds wildly experimental in comparision to some of the Rubbra I have encountered.
No offence implied,please note. I know he's you're favourite composer! Enlighten me! ;D
"..........Enlighten me ;D"
If you will forgive me?.......not at 2.23am I shan't ;D ;D ;D
And this from a relative of Count Dracula?!!! (You're 'joke'*,not mine!) Shocking!!! :o ;D
*At least,I HOPE it was! :o
Actually,I think you did (enlighten me)! ;D
Now,I think I'll have a look at the appropriate Rubbra thread! :)
How would Sym 3 work as a 2 Piano transcription? Sounds pretty awesome, no?
I said before that Harris is a composer with a strong style, which is not entirely a compliment. This is also related to the nationalist/patriotic aura that so much of his music emanates. He can't get away from his methods and signature sound. Composers go to great lengths to craft a sound like that, and the next thing they must learn is how to submerge it. They have to make good music rather than "their" music. Harris never entirely escaped the undertow of his greatest work, and everything after that, including some very good music, has been dragged down by it. If Harris had escaped his strong style, the 6th symphony would have a better shot as an American masterpiece. By the time you go from the 3rd to the 6th, you're tired of Harris.
Quote from: drogulus on March 15, 2012, 08:28:55 PM
I said before that Harris is a composer with a strong style, which is not entirely a compliment. This is also related to the nationalist/patriotic aura that so much of his music emanates. He can't get away from his methods and signature sound. Composers go to great lengths to craft a sound like that, and the next thing they must learn is how to submerge it. They have to make good music rather than "their" music. Harris never entirely escaped the undertow of his greatest work, and everything after that, including some very good music, has been dragged down by it. If Harris had escaped his strong style, the 6th symphony would have a better shot as an American masterpiece. By the time you go from the 3rd to the 6th, you're tired of Harris.
I was tired of Harris after the 3rd. >:D
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 15, 2012, 08:40:31 PM
I was tired of Harris after the 3rd. >:D
Very droll MI! :) But you've probably saved yourself allot of time! ;D
I find the Sixth quite impressive,in the Pacific SO performance,but having said that,I can't say I'm desperate to put it back on again!
I have argued valiantly ;D :o in favour of the Seventh,but I can't say I'm desperate to put it back on again!
It's that staunch,tub thumping patriotism that is the main problem for me,really,not the level of inspiration. It reminds me of a story about Thomas Beecham (another one! ;D).The one where he was conducting Richard Strauss & he said something along the lines of (if ONLY I could find the exact b**** quote!!!) Mozart being like a cool draught of spring water in comparison. It was all that dense,chromatic orchestration,he felt like he was being stifled. Not being a Strauss fan & liking Mozart I can see,or rather,hear what he meant.
It's the same with Harris. I can find some of his music very powerful when I am actually in the process of listening to it (& in the right mood) but then I'll go and listen to Copland's third (for example) and the leanness and clarity of his orchestration is so refreshing. It's like,"Do I REALLY want to go back?!!!" :o
Here's to Roy Harris page Seven!
Interesting (well maybe,not that interesting?!) that the only thing really keeping this thread going is :
1) Whether Roy Harris wrote anything as good as No 3?
2) Or basically,"everything else I've heard by Roy Harris (other than No 3) is crap!"
On a more positive note,this does keep the thread going. I can think of some composers who were far more successful than Roy Harris who have punier threads.
Anyone seen the Benjamin Britten thread lately?!!!
(Actually he's two 'pages' longer....but,still.......)
Of course,I have had something to do with it!
I mean,hey? Haven't I got anything better to do?
(Okay,let's just leave that one out! :()
It is also interesting how people who don't like Roy Harris feel compelled to contribute!
Put it this way. I won't be contributing to a Debussy* or Wagner thread any time soon! ;D
Maybe,Roy Harris has got something going for him after all?
Right! Now for some more Gladys Knight & the Pips!
It is just maybe worth pointing out in reference to your story about Beecham and his opinion of Richard Strauss that Beetham did record one of the finest ever interpretations of
Ein Heldenleben.
Did he? I seem to remember he wasn't too keen on Strauss,or at least he preferred Mozart. I did emphasise the dodginess of my quote to be fair to me! :-[ Beecham was very choosy about what he conducted though,wasn't he? I gather he disliked Britten ('Twilight of the sods",or something,wasn't it? Very un pc,as they say!),Vaughan Williams (London Symphony: "A country life for me") & allot of British composers. But he did like Holbrooke & Bantock. Well,Fifine at the Fair',at any rate!
Anyway,I'm no good at quotes & I should be researching all this BEFORE I post.........in the erm,Roy Harris thread! :o
Just googled Beecham & Richard Strauss. Apparently,he ONLY championed his opera's! :o :( ??? ;D
Beecham's performance of Ein Heldenleben:
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=146437
http://www.gramophone.net/Issue/Page/April%201990/66/734193/R.+STRAUSS.+Ein+Heldenleben,+Op.+40.
....and it was ".........a city life for me...." ;D ;D
AND "reinstated Richard Strauss's career in the UK"! Must have been hell,reinstating a composer you hate!! ???
This can only get worse!
But I can see what my 'quote' meant! ::) ;D
He WAS something to do with Beecham's Powders though,wasn't he?
I mean,he really WAS,wasn't he!? :o ???
Erm,back to Gladys Knight & the Pips...........I mean,Roy Harris! :-[ :o
Quote from: Dundonnell on March 16, 2012, 01:42:50 PM
Beecham's performance of Ein Heldenleben:
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=146437
http://www.gramophone.net/Issue/Page/April%201990/66/734193/R.+STRAUSS.+Ein+Heldenleben,+Op.+40.
....and it was ".........a city life for me...." ;D ;D
.....in relation to the
Pastoral Symphony, of course ;D
Yes..his grandfather founded the firm :)
Quote from: Dundonnell on March 16, 2012, 02:42:11 PM
.....in relation to the Pastoral Symphony, of course ;D
Yes..his grandfather founded the firm :)
;D I'm loving this,aren't I?!!! Yes, :o :( "a city life for me..! Very funny,that one!
I was quite.............................................close! :( ;D
Quote from: cilgwyn on March 16, 2012, 09:11:16 AM
Here's to Roy Harris page Seven!
You guys can turn it in to another Brian Thread! ;) Only 200 Pages to go!! 8)
A bit of Harris there,some Rubbra there,some more Harris & Gladys Knight & the Pips there & you could have a heck of a long thread. But weaving it in rubbraringly so no one will brian,of course!
Roy Harris must be rolling in his grave,although,knowing his luck,he was probably cremated. (Next stop: Findagrave,com Great! That's all it needs! :()
Actually,Roy Harris & Gladys Knight do have something in common. They're both American! (I wonder if Roy liked her act? He could have had a secret stash!)
Alternatively,a cd label or a concert promoter might come up with something that might just save this thread, Mind you,if it's the Bicentennial symphony,I'm off!!! :( :o
If you are disappointed that Harris composed nothing nearly as good as Symphony No 3 my recommendation is that you hear 'Abraham Lincoln Walks at Midnight' for mezzo-soprano and piano trio, a hauntingly atmospheric work, rather in the spirit of Samuel Barber's 'Knoxville'. It can be found on a very good double Naxos release:
[asin]B001NZA04W[/asin]
Thankyou,Vandermolen! Actually,just my dry attempt at humour. If I thought his other music was THAT dull I wouldn't have wasted all these posts on him! ;D Symphony No 6,in the Pacific SO,is imho,when I am in the right mood,a very exciting piece piece of music. Majestic,grand,exciting & beautiful in turn. I actually think it's one of the best American symphonies I've heard.......when I'm in the right mood! No 7 is,again,very stirring,even exciting in the Kuchar reading (I think it's the best of the Naxos recordings).And No 5 has got some lovely,luminescent scoring. I even enjoy the curiously scored,almost minimalistic No 8,and No 11's not bad,either!
But then I'm not too sure ::) ::) ::) :( and I'm back to square one! :( ;D
Maybe his greatest composition after the third symphony is in fact his 'Memories of a childs Sunday'. Now that really is a lovely little piece. No issues there at all & unlike anything else I have ever heard by Harris,seems to suggest that maybe,underneath all that partiotism,there was actually a sense of humour.
Or maybe a bit of one,that's all! :(
NB: I've got Havergal Brian Symphonies 10-15 on at the moment!
Actually I discovered the Pacific SO LP version of Symphony No 6 in 1985 at around the time my father died. I have always associated it with that sad time in my life and find the slow movement and the opening movement to be incredibly moving. I agree that it is a better performance than the Naxos version. I also like Symphony 1933, No 5 and No 7.
I am given to understand that the original Varese Saraband release had better sound? I know I had a Varese Sarabande Lp of orchestral works by Morton Gould. Not a composer who usually impresses me,but the playing of the LSO (?) under Gould himself was sensational,as was the sound quality. It was one of those early digital Lps with warnings about possible damage to your speakers,I think! ;D The cover art was a very striking embossed Aztecdesign,I think,in black & yellow. Sadly,as far as I can make out,it has never been released. Unfortunately,no other cd or Lp or composition I have heard by Gould since was ever that good! :(
That aside,I first heard No 6 on R3 back in the eighties. It made an impression on me & I think some of Harris's scoring in the slow parts is stunning & very beautiful. And strangely enough,I am suddenly in the right mood for some Harris. I have dug out his Symphonies 6 (Pacific so),7 (Kuchar) & 5 (Alsop.Not as good as the Louisville,but her best effort imho & nice to hear it in modern sound!) & will be putting them on,shortly!
Whatever the pro's & cons of Harris's later output,I really DO think No 5 & 7 deserve really first rate performances & recordings in state of the art digital sound quality and,furthermore,I find it rather apalling that Albany records waste their resources on Don Gillis symphony cycles* >:(..............and,dare I say it, slightly wierd! :o
* please note,I do actually quite like some Don Gillis,but at least Eric Coates knew his limitations...............oh,and my 79 year old mother likes EC,so I'd better be careful! :o ;D
Well,I'm still alive after listening to Harris's 5th,6th,7th & 8th symphonies! ;D I must admit I responded very well to No 6. I really enjoyed this symphony & I can't see that much of a problem with it,except that it lacks the originality,the conciseness & perfection of No 3. Also,it doesn't have such a memorable theme. Having said that,I don't really like comparisons too much & the four movement structure of the work,the beauty & almost luminescent quality of the more relective moments coupled with some very exciting & to my ears,majestic writing for Harris's favourite combinations of brass and percussion make for a pretty impressive symphony,imho! If I have to be critical,I think the fourth movement is probably the weakest of the three,but Harris seems to more than make up for this in the last couple of bars,bringing this very patriotic American symphony to an appropriately thrilling conclusion!
No 7 followed.in the Kuchar recording. Again,I enjoyed this symphony :o,although,I remember on hearing the opening chords,thinking it was,maybe,a little too similar to the opening of No 6. Fortunately,despite all the usual whooping brass & chirrupping woodwind,chugging chords & familiar Harris trademarks,I was soon drawn in. I particularly enjoyed that strutting almost martial like percussion that seems to appear part way. It makes me think of 'Uncle Sam' going into battle in one of those old war films,but then unexpectedly it quickly subsides. At one point,I did fleetingly start to wonder whether it was all really going anywhere,but then at 16.00 minutes in Harris brings in these tremendous brass chords & by the end I was ready to furl out the red stripes & invade Vietnam! Although,I'm not being serious,of course! And how could I? I sold all my toy tanks! :(
No 5,came next,in the Alsop/Naxos performance. This is probably where some of the problems began. Again,a feeling of deja vu at those opening chords & the feeling that the first movement was possibly an inferior remake of parts of the previous two! Luckily this was followed by a lovely slow movement. At that point,I decided that maybe this was Harris's 'pastoral symphony',and for some wierd reason,I stopped worrying about the comparisons. Well,not completely,but it helped! ;D
For comparisons sake,I followed this with the old Louisville recording of No 5 & all of a sudden,dated sonics or not,Alsop's flabby direction really showed it's ugly head (No sexist pun intended! ;D) If only I'd listened to that one first! :(
The biggest suprise,in a way, was No 8,which sounded allot better this time around! Yes,the opening had me going,"Oh dear,here we go again!" But after a while I got into the piece & even if there are a few too many similarities with No's 5,6 & 7,there is a lightness of touch which is missing from it's predecessors (bar 3) & I really DO love the way he incorporates that piano! In fact,I really do quite like this one now. If Harris did write a 'pastoral' symphony,as such,this is probably it. I might even go so far as to change my 'best of the Harris rest' to No 3,No 6,No 7,then No 8,followed by No 5,instead of No 5,first!
No 11 next & maybe one or two of the short pieces,but not too much more as I may find myself back at Roy Harris square one,all over again! :(
Regarding No 11. Curious how Harris,briefly,got back on (near form) with this symphony,then slipped back again? :o ::) Not bad,especially the first half,but it soon slips into a retread of the,to my ears,superior & less heavily scored,eighth.
Decided to listen to No 9,after all,in the Albany performance.! It starts off fairly well,even though it's all to obviously the same old thing. For a few,very brief, seconds,it even sounds a bit like Malcolm Arnold! :o ::) A few quite nice touches,but this one rambles too much! :(
The Alsop 5 could make a nice coaster,but I think I will keep it as a comparison,or an example of how to shoot even more nails into Roy Harris's erstwhile reputation! :( ;D
Okay,that's enough Harris,for now! I am now listening to some nice,relaxing late Havergal brian! ;D & I must admit,ever so slightly relieved! :)
Remember to breathe! ;) ;D
I didn't mean that kind of 'relieved'! :o ;D ;D
NB: Roy Harris 6 & 7 were still the best of the rest & I still think the Sixth is great (with a small 'g',perhaps! ;D) after two traversals. In fact,I actually like No 6,best! :o Although,please note,I DON'T mean it IS the best!
Runner up: No 5
And eight is better than I thought!!! In fact,I quite enjoyed it! :o ;D
Worst! (some would say all,except NO 3! ;D): No 9 & No 4,although it does have some very lovely moments. Unfortunately,they ARE moments! :(
I have discounted the unrecorded one's which are,unfortunately,BEYOND WORSE! :o :o :o
Harris's 'Memories of a childs Sunday,deserves a look in,for having a sense of humour!
Listening to Roy Harris this week. Getting to know the no.3 through the Jaarvi account, and have a Howard Hanson recording to listen to next.
Wow, Ormandy's account of the 7th is amazing! I love the 7th.
Just heard a performance of no.10 from a broadcast recording found on the UC board. Oh my, what a strange work!
I'm going to listen more to it.
Nice to see a new entry in the 'Roy Harris' thread! :) Yes,his tenth symphony has got quite a few fans here! ;D I personally find Harris an intriguing composer;but maybe in the wrong kind of way! Allot of composers would have killed (Copland didn't have to!) to compose a symphony like the Harris third! But,admittedly,with the benefit of hindsight,maybe he should have done a Sibelius & left it at that! Instead,he went on,and on,and on,trying to come up with something as good;but still had the sense (fair play!) not to compose as many as Hovhaness! ;D
Of course,if he'd stopped,he wouldn't have composed the Sixth & Seventh,which I really DO find rather impressive,personally,when I'm in the right mood! (Especially,No 6!) But then again,as the old saying goes,'what you don't know,you don't miss'. I do wonder whether things might have been a little different for Harris's posthumous reputation,if Bernstein had recorded his 6th or Seventh? Or Bernstein's for that matter?!!! ;D Maybe they wouldn't be regarded as masterpieces,but Bernstein did have a way of making a silk purse out of a sows ear*! ;D
Thank goodness Alsop's not doing any more,though! :o And,I mean that in a nice way!
* Not that I'm comparing Harris's symphonies to sows ears!
Quote from: cilgwyn on June 02, 2012, 01:33:54 PM
Nice to see a new entry in the 'Roy Harris' thread! :) Yes,his tenth symphony has got quite a few fans here! ;D I personally find Harris an intriguing composer;but maybe in the wrong kind of way! Allot of composers would have killed (Copland didn't have to!) to compose a symphony like the Harris third! But,admittedly,with the benefit of hindsight,maybe he should have done a Sibelius & left it at that! Instead,he went on,and on,and on,trying to come up with something as good;but still had the sense (fair play!) not to compose as many as Hovhaness! ;D
Of course,if he'd stopped,he wouldn't have composed the Sixth & Seventh,which I really DO find rather impressive,personally,when I'm in the right mood! (Especially,No 6!) But then again,as the old saying goes,'what you don't know,you don't miss'. I do wonder whether things might have been a little different for Harris's posthumous reputation,if Bernstein had recorded his 6th or Seventh? Or Bernstein's for that matter?!!! ;D Maybe they wouldn't be regarded as masterpieces,but Bernstein did have a way of making a silk purse out of a sows ear*! ;D
Thank goodness Alsop's not doing any more,though! :o And,I mean that in a nice way!
* Not that I'm comparing Harris's symphonies to sows ears!
Ormandy did record a fine version of No 7. I like that Jarvi Chandos CD with the Harris and Copland 3rd symphonies. The CD is usually slated but I find Jarvi's take valid on both works.
I have a bad back, and it woke me up very early this morning, and so I had a relisten to the 10th. On second hearing I was deeply moved. This work needs a great recording to support it! I really think it's unique. Never heard anything like it!
I really love Ormandy's recording of the 7th. Just heard this again at work. It soars. I have to agree with Malcolm D. Robertson (in the periodical Temple, New Series, No. 207 (Dec., 1998), pp. 9-14) that the 7th is a Harris masterpiece.
Quote from: cilgwyn on June 02, 2012, 01:33:54 PM
Nice to see a new entry in the 'Roy Harris' thread! :) Yes,his tenth symphony has got quite a few fans here! ;D I personally find Harris an intriguing composer;but maybe in the wrong kind of way! Allot of composers would have killed (Copland didn't have to!) to compose a symphony like the Harris third! But,admittedly,with the benefit of hindsight,maybe he should have done a Sibelius & left it at that! Instead,he went on,and on,and on,trying to come up with something as good;but still had the sense (fair play!) not to compose as many as Hovhaness! ;D
Of course,if he'd stopped,he wouldn't have composed the Sixth & Seventh,which I really DO find rather impressive,personally,when I'm in the right mood! (Especially,No 6!) But then again,as the old saying goes,'what you don't know,you don't miss'. I do wonder whether things might have been a little different for Harris's posthumous reputation,if Bernstein had recorded his 6th or Seventh? Or Bernstein's for that matter?!!! ;D Maybe they wouldn't be regarded as masterpieces,but Bernstein did have a way of making a silk purse out of a sows ear*! ;D
Thank goodness Alsop's not doing any more,though! :o And,I mean that in a nice way!
* Not that I'm comparing Harris's symphonies to sows ears!
I'm glad Harris kept going at it. The late works are interesting and endlessly fascinating, and very worthwhile to study and listen to!
No 8 shows he could do something different,anyway. More like a big symphonic poem,in some ways,it tickles the ear drums with all kinds of timbres and sonorities.His use of the piano is imaginative & the trick is not to worry about whether it all holds together & let it just wash all over you,like a sea of sound. Almost minimalistic,at times. The Albany recording sounds very good. A pity that they seem to have overlooked the Fifth symphony,which needs a really good modern recording,in favour of Don Gillis marathons. The Alsop recording is (perhaps?) passable,but you only have to listen to the old Louisville recording,to see how flaccid,it is!
Yeah, I've yet to hear the 8th and most of the rest, I did start listening to the 12th and I already love it! Maybe I'm easy to please, but Harris' style is beautiful to behold. I think his unique structures must be a matter of taste, or perhaps an acquired taste. I've never heard any music that sounds so populist but also SO avant grade, all mixed together like what I hear in his 12.
Also, some wacky musical things happen in the 12, like near the end of the 2nd movement a tenor sings "kyrie elesion" and there is no more singing into late until the next movement. I wish I could look at the score.
The Harris 6 is incredible in sound and design. I have the Keith Clark recording by the way.
8)
The 8 and 9 (David Miller accounts) are truly great works! What an exciting personal discovery, I also got the Alsop recording of 6 and 5.
I just happened to listen again to the Symphony No.11 sample on YT, gotta love that piano, which seems to be a holdover from the 8/9. I'm still trying to hear what I imagine to be the Hidden Masterpiece, the Symphony for Band. I know sooomeone around here has it! 8)
I am more determined than ever to do a 2 Piano Transcription of the 3rd,... eh?
An interesting review of the Stokowski conducted Harris Seventh (with the NBC Symphony) in Fanfare:
"This performance of Harris's Seventh symphony has excited unusual interest because it is the only surviving broadcast of the work before he revised it."
Full review here. (http://www.fanfaremag.com/content/view/49096/10254/) Unfortunately, the clip at JPC sounds atrocious. I'm not sure I want to invest.
Sarge
Listening multiple times to the Ninth here I'm struck by the constant highly impressive artistic insistence and focus on line and aesthetic control, reminiscent of the Third and its weird inward incessant unity...
None of the later symphonies I think quite find the same seemingly lucky visceral imperative but all cultivate this lurching demonic idiom subtly justifying itself; the whole peculiar conception is rather reminiscent of Maxwell-Davies' Third mentioned in recent weeks, even if Harris, Schuman and Hanson et al struggle badly to avoid merging into the American open space emptiness...
Harris really finds something, he's like a whacked Picasso cubist painting that you find resonance with over time. ???
Quote from: Sean on July 12, 2013, 08:10:37 PM
Listening multiple times to the Ninth here I'm struck by the constant highly impressive artistic insistence and focus on line and aesthetic control, reminiscent of the Third and its weird inward incessant unity...
None of the later symphonies I think quite find the same seemingly lucky visceral imperative but all cultivate this lurching demonic idiom subtly justifying itself; the whole peculiar conception is rather reminiscent of Maxwell-Davies' Third mentioned in recent weeks, even if Harris, Schuman and Hanson et al struggle badly to avoid merging into the American open space emptiness...
Harris really finds something, he's like a whacked Picasso cubist painting that you find resonance with over time. ???
I rather like the American open space emptiness! :)
Quote from: Sean on July 12, 2013, 08:10:37 PM
Listening multiple times to the Ninth here I'm struck by the constant highly impressive artistic insistence and focus on line and aesthetic control, reminiscent of the Third and its weird inward incessant unity...
None of the later symphonies I think quite find the same seemingly lucky visceral imperative but all cultivate this lurching demonic idiom subtly justifying itself; the whole peculiar conception is rather reminiscent of Maxwell-Davies' Third mentioned in recent weeks, even if Harris, Schuman and Hanson et al struggle badly to avoid merging into the American open space emptiness...
Harris really finds something, he's like a whacked Picasso cubist painting that you find resonance with over time. ???
The guy who wrote that review needs to put his thesaurus down for a while.
Quote from: Leo K. on June 06, 2012, 09:16:39 AM
The Harris 6 is incredible in sound and design. I have the Keith Clark recording by the way.
8)
gaaaaahhhhh, I was just outbid on that Clark. Is it even on Amazon? This is the cd with Copland on it too. I guess you're saying Naxos? What's this other one??
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/Thomas_Hart_Benton_-_Cut_the_Line.jpg/800px-Thomas_Hart_Benton_-_Cut_the_Line.jpg)
Third and
Seventh are similar and in one movement but all 13 seem to be searching for the same inwardness, always a sign of a great mind to work in a relatively narrow idiom without needing more.
Quote from: Rons_talking on July 17, 2013, 02:47:05 PM
I'm happy to see so many responses on a Harris thread. If I were to compare his musical language with an American painter it would be someone like . Harris seems a regionalist who prizes the essence of his sound rather than the creation of masterpieces in the European sense. His critics have plenty of ammunition when it comes to technique but the Harris "sound" is singularly rural America ca. 1930s with his use of 5ths and chaccone-like harmonies that are appealing yet often burn the aggregate in just a few chords (a little like serial in content-not sound).
That said, I have to agree with W. Shuman who laments the fact that Harris didn't refine or improve his output during a period where virtually every composer underwent some kind of artistic evolution. His 3rd and 7th are two of my faves...
Quote from: snyprrr on July 17, 2013, 12:14:28 PM
gaaaaahhhhh, I was just outbid on that Clark. Is it even on Amazon? This is the cd with Copland on it too. I guess you're saying Naxos? What's this other one??
I bought it on iTunes, 8)
I'm going to have to revist that recording.
I've been blogging about the finest American symphonies composed between 1900-60 and the Harris Third immediately came to mind. It really does have the ideal balance of boldness, originality and accessability. His other symphonies are very similar (for the most part) to the third. If you haven't heard his chamber music you're missing out. To an extent the lack of sonic variety helps him avoid some of the comfort zones in which the composer is sometimes accused of taking too much comfort. The Quintet is wonderful!
I haven't heard the last two Harris symphonies but I favor the 3rd, 6th and 7th. But I suppose the 3rd is still the Harris standard. I love the way his harmonies jump around by thirds: ie, A minor to C#minor to A to F, etc. It's really his sound. Slight dissonance in a tonal framework...Hindemith also does that at times, but not to the same effect. I'm listening to the Naxos recording of his 1933 Symphony. After growing up on the vintage Ormandy recording it's nice to hear the work a little faster and without warbles...
I'm revisiting some Roy Harris tonight (listening to Symphony No. 9) and I'm having the same issues I've always had with his music: too declamatory and, ultimately, for me, it sounds empty. I even have had problems with his Symphony No. 3, which is supposedly one of the finest American symphonies ever composed. I'd argue that, while it's a nice work, it doesn't begin to touch Copland's own 3rd or William Schuman's for that matter. I simply don't hear a distinctive compositional voice that moves me and really makes me want to hear more of his music. The only symphony I recall liking by Harris was Symphony No. 6 "Gettysburg". This one seemed rather individual to me. I'm going to give his 11th a listen since Jeffrey in his original post gave this one such high marks.
Interesting that you are having another go and actually go so far as to make a fairly positive observation about the Sixth. I spent quite a bit of time on this composer a while back,as you may recall. I tend to agree with you. I did actually like No3 when I was young. I actually played it more than the Copland with which it was coupled. These days it is the Copland that gets played not the other way around! I can sort of understand why I might have been 'grabbed' by listening to one Harris symphony,on it's own,in my youth. The problem is when you listen to some of the others. After a while it gets a bit like listening to some guy in a bar,who initially appears interesting;then after a while you realise you have got stuck with an overbearing bore,who just likes the sound of his own voice. It's really all justl a long winded,opinionated rant! I agree that the Sixth is the most interesting. It's more varied in terms of atmosphere and has a more interesting structure. There is also some quiet,reflective music there which does have a sort of slumbering power. In fact,I think it's quite impressive really;but that said;I won't be listening to it too much! A cold shower afterwards followed by some Frederic Delius,perhaps?!! ;D
The best performace of the Seventh I have ever heard is by Ormandy. I know you are a little allergic to mono sound;but the Albany cd is coupled with Ormandy conducting Piston's Fourth and Schuman's Sixth. They are all very powerful interpretations. I can well believe,listeniing to Ormandy's performance,that if he had recorded more Harris (particularly in stereo) his music might be more highly regarded than it is. That said,I think Piston,Schuman and Copland are infinitely more varied and satisfying. Harris is a curious puzzle,though. I might even be brave enough to have another go a little later?!!
Incidentally,downloads of an LP transfer of the Ormandy recordings I posted about here appear to be available courtesy of one of those Vinyl/Shellac blogs. Being old fashioned I bought the Albany cd!
refraining from smart comments- thank me later!!
Quote from: cilgwyn on April 20, 2015, 01:51:39 AM
Interesting that you are having another go and actually go so far as to make a fairly positive observation about the Sixth. I spent quite a bit of time on this composer a while back,as you may recall. I tend to agree with you. I did actually like No3 when I was young. I actually played it more than the Copland with which it was coupled. These days it is the Copland that gets played not the other way around! I can sort of understand why I might have been 'grabbed' by listening to one Harris symphony,on it's own,in my youth. The problem is when you listen to some of the others. After a while it gets a bit like listening to some guy in a bar,who initially appears interesting;then after a while you realise you have got stuck with an overbearing bore,who just likes the sound of his own voice. It's really all justl a long winded,opinionated rant! I agree that the Sixth is the most interesting. It's more varied in terms of atmosphere and has a more interesting structure. There is also some quiet,reflective music there which does have a sort of slumbering power. In fact,I think it's quite impressive really;but that said;I won't be listening to it too much! A cold shower afterwards followed by some Frederic Delius,perhaps?!! ;D
The best performace of the Seventh I have ever heard is by Ormandy. I know you are a little allergic to mono sound;but the Albany cd is coupled with Ormandy conducting Piston's Fourth and Schuman's Sixth. They are all very powerful interpretations. I can well believe,listeniing to Ormandy's performance,that if he had recorded more Harris (particularly in stereo) his music might be more highly regarded than it is. That said,I think Piston,Schuman and Copland are infinitely more varied and satisfying. Harris is a curious puzzle,though. I might even be brave enough to have another go a little later?!!
It would have been nice if Ormandy did a cycle of Harris symphonies. :-\ But I suppose he was too busy conducting orchestral blockbusters. :) Anyway, I don't think Harris is a bad composer, but the lack of variety does wear a bit thin in his music. Like I mentioned, the 6th seemed more unique to my ears (I actually have the Keith Clark/Pacific SO performance on order). I always thought Alsop did a decent job with the symphony, but I could imagine it being a bit more dramatic. The declamatory aspect in his music is still the hardest pill for me to swallow so far. I feel like "stop preaching and get on with it!" :) Anyway, I'll revisit a few works (incl. the 3rd) and see if I can muster up some actual positive feedback.
I like your first line! ;D I heard the Keith Clark performance of the Sixth on R3,back in the 80's.Imho (as they say) and that of other posts,on this forum and elsewhere,there is no comparison! The Keith Clark is just miles better. There is one particular bit which might surprise you,if you've only heard the Naxos recording. The brass absolutely lets rip. Whatever you think of the symphony,as a whole,it really is quite a sound! I am going to put my cards on the table and say now that I actually think the Sixth is his best symphony.......not the third!! History picked the wrong one (and then dumped that one,too,it seems!!).
Apart from the Sixth I do quite like the short orchestral work 'Memories of a Child's Sunday',on the Albany cd of Symphonies 8 & 9. A bit more of this kind of playfulness and humour and I might be playing Harris a bit more!
Nice to see some renewed interest in this composer and I was interested in the comments from John and Cilgwyn. I like the third, fifth, sixth, seventh, eleventh and 'Symphony 1933'. They are quite similar in a way but I also agree that No.6 especially in the recording by Keith Clark stands out as one of the best. It has a personal meaning for me as I discovered it in a record library at around the time my father died in 1985 and I found the slow movement very consoling, poignant and moving at the time. It always reminds me of that sad time whenever I hear it but I agree that Keith Clark's is by far the best performance. If you find the declamatory style of the Harris symphonies rather overbearing I strongly recommend a little known reflective work 'Abraham Lincoln Walks at Midnight' for piano trio and mezzo-soprano. It lasts 14 minutes and is an extraordinarily moving and hauntingly atmospheric work. You can even find it on a double Naxos CD set and I can't rate it highly enough:
[asin]B001NZA04W[/asin]
Thank you for your suggestion,Vandermolen. I don't actually know this work,but I have noticed it's lovely,evocative title!
Whatever my feelings about his music,I do find Roy Harris an interesting puzzle and I do actually like some of his music. In fact,in some ways I found mulling over the musical value of his legacy more interesting and satisfying than actually listening to his music;which does seem strange. I also do rather like some of his symphonies,ie the Fifth,Sixth and Seventh,for example;and find much to admire.......but I can't say I exactly warm to them,or long to hear them. But then again,I'm starting to get an uncontrollable urge to put one on! Must fight the urge.......................aaaaaagh,I've got the Clark cd of the Sixth in my hand right now;and there is the possibility I might even enjoy,at least some of it and start multiple posts here,again!!! ??? :o ;D
Thanks for the posts, Jeffrey and Cilgwyn.
Jeffrey, I know that 2-CD set you linked but haven't heard any of that music in years. I really need to revisit it at some juncture. It's also good to know Harris' 6th has a special meaning for you. I think all music has a purpose and that purpose is communication on a another plain --- something that can't be communicated through words but rather in sound through musical expression.
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2009/Apr09/Lincoln_portraits_8559373.htm
For some reason I overlooked this set,which got some very good reviews. The other music sounds intriguing and I think I'll put it on my 'list' now. Not to buy now,however. My wallet need a rest and the postman was starting to give some funny looks. There has been quite a flood of (Sorry,Vandermolen,I can't think of another word for it! ;D) packages through the door,of late! I see that Rob Barnett suggests a recording of Harris's tenth at the end of his review. 'Eccentric' is one of the more polite terms I have heard used to describe this piece. Actually,I'm all for it,because it would fill in the gap I've got in my Harris symphony collection. I'm not sure it will be worth the effort,but I have a feeling someone will probably record it eventually!!
Actually,I think Roy Harris is more of an enigma than a puzzle (Wait a minute,that's pretty much the same?) Allot of his critics reckon he did the same work over and over again. The same declamatory rhetoric. On that basis I suppose you could say the same thing about some other composers. I tend to concur with MI's point of view. But then again,there is something there that gets me picking up and wondering!
Or would I be better off just getting it over with and take them down to a charity shop so I can spend all the time I've got left on Copland,Barber,Piston,Mennin and Schuman?!! ;D
Or maybe clean out the fridge,instead?!! :(
By the way,you mentioned Harris's Eleventh symphony,MI. His eighth is a bit like the eleventh,without the rhetoric. Like the Sixth it's a bit different from his usual declamatory idiom. Full of tinkling tintinnabullations. I think it's rather original. Less aggressive than usual for Harris. In fact,I think that's the one I'll put on!!
The back of the Albany cd:
(http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/dinasman/c3a3535a-a4cc-44e6-915c-a10b88145f0b_zpsdu8t1apm.jpg)
Out of interest,the timings,for the Ninth,on the Naxos cd. I prefer Kuchar's Harris to Alsop's. I'm hopeless at this kind of thing,but you can click on it!
(http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/dinasman/337a2a44-357d-40c6-90a3-d84a7c934946_zpsgsc0ko8q.jpg)
Again!
(http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/dinasman/c3a3535a-a4cc-44e6-915c-a10b88145f0b_zpsdu8t1apm.jpg)
The Ormandy performance of the Seventh:
(http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/dinasman/IMG_20150421_0006_zpszjrsmevz.jpg)
Just am I'm about to put Harris on my latest cd purchase drops through the letterbox. The original Erato release of Martinon conducting Roussel's Symphony No 2 and Le festin de l'araignée! Egad! What does a man do in this situation?!! ???
Put on Roussel! :o ;D
Roy Harris,hopefully,a bit later!!!
Quote from: cilgwyn on April 21, 2015, 01:44:37 AM
By the way,you mentioned Harris's Eleventh symphony,MI. His eighth is a bit like the eleventh,without the rhetoric. Like the Sixth it's a bit different from his usual declamatory idiom. Full of tinkling tintinnabullations. I think it's rather original. Less aggressive than usual for Harris. In fact,I think that's the one I'll put on!!
I'll have to give the 8th and 11th a listen, cilgwyn. Thanks for the feedback. I know I don't like the 9th at all.
Looking at posts here and elsewhere and using my own ears and brain ;D I have come to the conclusion that the Ninth is one of his weakets,even IF you like,or find his music interesting at all. I prefer the Eighth' It's less declamatory than some of his symphonies. I quite like the sounds I'm hearing.....but there is that feeling that you've heard it all before?!! I'll listen to it again,though!
And now I've pricked up my ears. I really do like this bit! Unfortunately,I'm listening via cordless headphones. The mini-hifi is on track 6 and it isn't playing the symphony at all. This is the fill-up in between;Memories of a Child's Sunday. It's in three short movements; Bells,Imagining things and finally,Play. This is really nice. A lovely piece. It has a lightness of touch that seems to be missing from all the symphonies. The third movement,in particular,Play,is an absolute delight!! Wow! At last a piece of music by Roy Harris I KNOW I like!
Actually,I like the opening of the Ninth....but after a few promising opening bars it feels like a symphony going nowhere!! (Although,I don't dislike it as much as you,MI)
I DO like the sound of Harris's orchestration. It really tickles my ears. It has that wide open prairie feel to it and a spring like clarity of texture. I just wish he could have got a grip on the ranting......and like Hovhaness,in a wholly different way (at least he's relaxing) that uneasy feeling that he's just composing the same symphony over and over again with slight variations! I am enjoying this music now............but to paraphrase the song.........will I still love it tomorrow?!!
It's the sound of Harris's orchestration,when it's at it's least tub thumping,that has stopped me from taking these cd's down to the charity shop. This is one aspect of Roy Harris's music I DO like. I just wish I could feel as comfortable with what he did with it. More variety,more humour,less ranting.....but I do like the sounds I'm hearing during the less rhetorical (noisy) passages.
Nope! Listened to the eighth twice. I prefer this to the Ninth,but it still feels like too much note spinning,really! I think the best Harris symphonies are 5-7,and 3 for some people. Talking about charity shops earlier,I realise I did actually drop the Albany cd of the Eleventh off at one!! Oops!! ??? ;D Revisiting these symphonie does confirm my earlier findings. Memories of a Child's Sunday is a lovely piece,though!!
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 20, 2015, 06:51:29 PM
Thanks for the posts, Jeffrey and Cilgwyn.
Jeffrey, I know that 2-CD set you linked but haven't heard any of that music in years. I really need to revisit it at some juncture. It's also good to know Harris' 6th has a special meaning for you. I think all music has a purpose and that purpose is communication on a another plain --- something that can't be communicated through words but rather in sound through musical expression.
And thank you John and Cilgwyn. I agree John with what you say above about the 'purpose' of music and that it communicates something that cannot be communicated in words. 'The arts are the means by which we can look through the magic casements and see what lies beyond' said the agnostic Vaughan Williams. I think that you would both enjoy 'Abraham Lincoln Walks at Midnight', which is ideal late night listening.
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 21, 2015, 07:53:05 AM
I'll have to give the 8th and 11th a listen, cilgwyn. Thanks for the feedback. I know I don't like the 9th at all.
I'd choose No 11 over No 8,MI,if you want to try one.
The Sixth sounds impressive in the Keith Clark recording. I like the Seventh in the old Ormandy recording. I prefer it to the third. The Kuchar on Naxos is quite good imho,if you must have stereo. If you can stomach the rhetoric I think it's an imposing piece of music. The Fifth,I quite like. I always prefer the old Louisville recording. After that I think the Eleventh is probably the one most hearing.The Albany recording sounded very good to me. I seem to recall I actually disposed of it because it had other things on it that I didn't want! That said,Harris is not a composer I want to play as often as say,Copland,Barber,Piston,Schuman,Mennin,Hanson,or even Antheil!.
Quote from: cilgwyn on April 21, 2015, 02:22:54 PM
I'd choose No 11 over No 8,MI,if you want to try one.
The Sixth sounds impressive in the Keith Clark recording. I like the Seventh in the old Ormandy recording. I prefer it to the third. The Kuchar on Naxos is quite good imho,if you must have stereo. If you can stomach the rhetoric I think it's an imposing piece of music. The Fifth,I quite like. I always prefer the old Louisville recording. After that I think the Eleventh is probably the one most hearing.The Albany recording sounded very good to me. I seem to recall I actually disposed of it because it had other things on it that I didn't want! That said,Harris is not a composer I want to play as often as say,Copland,Barber,Piston,Schuman,Mennin,Hanson,or even Antheil!.
Cool, thanks for the feedback here, cilgwyn. 8)
Quote from: cilgwyn on April 21, 2015, 02:22:54 PM
I'd choose No 11 over No 8,MI,if you want to try one.
The Sixth sounds impressive in the Keith Clark recording. I like the Seventh in the old Ormandy recording. I prefer it to the third. The Kuchar on Naxos is quite good imho,if you must have stereo. If you can stomach the rhetoric I think it's an imposing piece of music. The Fifth,I quite like. I always prefer the old Louisville recording. After that I think the Eleventh is probably the one most hearing.The Albany recording sounded very good to me. I seem to recall I actually disposed of it because it had other things on it that I didn't want! That said,Harris is not a composer I want to play as often as say,Copland,Barber,Piston,Schuman,Mennin,Hanson,or even Antheil!.
Those are the recordings of the symphonies that I like too.
I suppose I should add that some people rate the Symphony 1933 as well!
Incidentally,after the disappointment (as expected) of No 9 and No 8,I finally put on No 6 (after being distracted by the new Roussel cd and Schulhoff symphonies!) Disaster struck! My Albany cd was faulty. Cleaning didn't help! Then it got worse. For some reason I lost my connection. I have only just got it back now!! Is there a Harris jinx,by the way?!! ??? ;D Not that I believe in that sort of thing,of course!!
Yep,I'm still connected!
Ordered a new cop of the Albany Sixth. So I'm now in the same situation as Mirror Image with this cd! :(
That said,this is one Roy Harris symphony that does impress me and I can understand why the music would move Vandermolen. My father is still alive,so far,at 83,and it does make you think late at night. My mother loved Beethoven I remember. The Pastoral was a particular favourite! You put it on and remember.
A lovely opening. That feeling of big,wide open spaces. The strings have a lovely,serene,luminous quality which reminds me of Martinu. (And those soft chords) Although,Harris doesn't sound like him,of course.
Quote from: cilgwyn on April 21, 2015, 02:35:43 AM
The Ormandy performance of the Seventh:
(http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/dinasman/IMG_20150421_0006_zpszjrsmevz.jpg)
Three of my favorite symphonies. I love the Ormandy performance but how is the fidelity? The Harris 7th is underrated by many; it's Harris at his best.
Quote from: vandermolen on April 21, 2015, 01:30:56 PM
And thank you John and Cilgwyn. I agree John with what you say above about the 'purpose' of music and that it communicates something that cannot be communicated in words. 'The arts are the means by which we can look through the magic casements and see what lies beyond' said the agnostic Vaughan Williams. I think that you would both enjoy 'Abraham Lincoln Walks at Midnight', which is ideal late night listening.
Indeed, Jeffrey. RVW was quite right in saying this about music. Wise man.
Quote from: Rons_talking on April 22, 2015, 03:12:45 AM
Three of my favorite symphonies. I love the Ormandy performance but how is the fidelity? The Harris 7th is underrated by many; it's Harris at his best.
I only know the LPs. It's good 50s mono.
There have been other transfers of these from LPs:
http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=9.80239
http://shellackophile.blogspot.com/2012/03/ormandy-three-american-symphonies.html
Actually,I did originally hear the recordings via that blog. I bought the Albany cd of the Ormandy recordings when i Finally found it at a reasonable,low price. I like the artwork on that old Lp on the blog site. I can't help wishing they'd reissue it with that. Oh well,it's not exactly important!! ::) ;D
Painted for Columbia Records by Arnold Blanch!!
Quote from: Rons_talking on April 22, 2015, 03:12:45 AM
Three of my favorite symphonies. I love the Ormandy performance but how is the fidelity? The Harris 7th is underrated by many; it's Harris at his best.
I have this CD - it is terrific.
I am listening to the Albany cd of the Ormandy recordings and I think the sound quality is remarkably good for it's era.
Quote from: cilgwyn on April 22, 2015, 03:13:15 PM
I am listening to the Albany cd of the Ormandy recordings and I think the sound quality is remarkably good for it's era.
Dialing down expectations, I appreciate that ;)
I listened to Harris's Fifth Symphony today. This is the one I like best after (in order of preference) 6 & 7. I have quite liked this one ever since I picked the old RCA Gold Seal Lp out of the rack at,the now defunct,Haverfordwest library. The rhetoric is familiar,but it does have a lovely slow movement. The ancient old Louisville recording is the 'way to go',if you want to hear it (and don't know it!).
Quote from: cilgwyn on April 23, 2015, 03:14:16 PM
I listened to Harris's Fifth Symphony today. This is the one I like best after (in order of preference) 6 & 7. I have quite liked this one ever since I picked the old RCA Gold Seal Lp out of the rack at,the now defunct,Haverfordwest library. The rhetoric is familiar,but it does have a lovely slow movement. The ancient old Louisville recording is the 'way to go',if you want to hear it (and don't know it!).
This is one I like too. I also had the RCA Gold Seal LP. RCA were more adventurous in their releases then.
Quote from: vandermolen on April 24, 2015, 08:48:28 AM
This is one I like too. I also had the RCA Gold Seal LP. RCA were more adventurous in their releases then.
Here it is on ebay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/GL-25058-Harris-Martinu-Symphony-5-Louisville-Orchestra-Robert-Whitney-LP-/141647503998?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item20fad9627e).
Quote from: Daverz on April 24, 2015, 02:06:45 PM
Here it is on ebay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/GL-25058-Harris-Martinu-Symphony-5-Louisville-Orchestra-Robert-Whitney-LP-/141647503998?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item20fad9627e).
That's the one! That was a good old inexpensive series. I remember a Martinu release and Bax's Third Symphony ( LSO/Downes) which shamefully has never been released on CD. Also an interesting LP of music by Fricker.
I'd forgotten it was coupled with Martinu's Fifth. In fact,I didn't even know I'd heard the Louisville performance! I can't think I would have borrowed the Lp without listening to that,as well! Perhaps it was the excitement of the Neumann Lp's with those wierd looking heads.....and I bought the Supraphon box set,with alas,no alien heads (though I've got the lovely Supraphon box set,now!).
RCA seriously need to reissue Tjeknavorian's sweeping,magisterial account of Khatchaturian's First,as well! Imho (as they say!) it easily,outclasses every other recording I have ever heard. I am lucky enough to have a superb Lp to cd'r transfer now,which I got from some kind music lover! Thank you very much! :) Anyone who doesn't think much of this symphony needs to hear this recording first,before they give up on it! As to Tjeknavorian's ASV effort. Forget about it! There is no comparison! (A pity Jarvi didn't record it for Chandos,by the way :()
Anyway,this is a Roy Harris thread! A replacement for my faulty Albany cd of Harris's Sixth is in the post (from France!). After Harris,6,7,5 and 3 (if you like that one) I think vandermolen is right about the Eleventh being one of his better efforts. File under next best after the others mentioned. I think I think I might even prefer it to No 3. That said,No's 6,7 & 5 are the ones that work best for me. In fact,I think that if you stop worrying about the other ones,No's 6 and 7 are actually impressive symphonies,and No5,while not on the same level is pretty good. It's more pastoral than the others in tone,with a lovely,tender slow movement;which means it gets played here as often as 6 & 7,even if it isn't quite on their level of inspiration. It's when you start going through a whole wad of Harris symphonies,looking for something else on the same level;particularly No's 2,4,8 & 9 (and possibly the 'Symphony 1933) that the problems start to arise,and you start feeling like one of those tv viewers who watch Quincy for the first time and think that they've actually discovered an entertaining program. A couple of episodes later and the run-ins with Quincy's boss and the joke in the restaurant at the end,start to creep up on you!! ??? Not that I'm saying Harris is like Quincy......but stick to 5-7 (and maybe 3 & 11,if you like them) and you might actually be one of those people who think that Roy Harris actually was a great American composer,or at least,get some enjoyment from them.
Did someone say Quincy?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quincy_Porter
American composer who wrote 2 symphonies.
I ordered the Whitney recording of the Harris 5th, but how is Alsop's?
Quote from: cilgwyn on April 26, 2015, 05:14:45 AM
I'd forgotten it was coupled with Martinu's Fifth. In fact,I didn't even know I'd heard the Louisville performance! I can't think I would have borrowed the Lp without listening to that,as well! Perhaps it was the excitement of the Neumann Lp's with those wierd looking heads.....and I bought the Supraphon box set,with alas,no alien heads (though I've got the lovely Supraphon box set,now!).
RCA seriously need to reissue Tjeknavorian's sweeping,magisterial account of Khatchaturian's First,as well! Imho (as they say!) it easily,outclasses every other recording I have ever heard. I am lucky enough to have a superb Lp to cd'r transfer now,which I got from some kind music lover! Thank you very much! :) Anyone who doesn't think much of this symphony needs to hear this recording first,before they give up on it! As to Tjeknavorian's ASV effort. Forget about it! There is no comparison! (A pity Jarvi didn't record it for Chandos,by the way :()
Anyway,this is a Roy Harris thread! A replacement for my faulty Albany cd of Harris's Sixth is in the post (from France!). After Harris,6,7,5 and 3 (if you like that one) I think vandermolen is right about the Eleventh being one of his better efforts. File under next best after the others mentioned. I think I think I might even prefer it to No 3. That said,No's 6,7 & 5 are the ones that work best for me. In fact,I think that if you stop worrying about the other ones,No's 6 and 7 are actually impressive symphonies,and No5,while not on the same level is pretty good. It's more pastoral than the others in tone,with a lovely,tender slow movement;which means it gets played here as often as 6 & 7,even if it isn't quite on their level of inspiration. It's when you start going through a whole wad of Harris symphonies,looking for something else on the same level;particularly No's 2,4,8 & 9 (and possibly the 'Symphony 1933) that the problems start to arise,and you start feeling like one of those tv viewers who watch Quincy for the first time and think that they've actually discovered an entertaining program. A couple of episodes later and the run-ins with Quincy's boss and the joke in the restaurant at the end,start to creep up on you!! ??? Not that I'm saying Harris is like Quincy......but stick to 5-7 (and maybe 3 & 11,if you like them) and you might actually be one of those people who think that Roy Harris actually was a great American composer,or at least,get some enjoyment from them.
You are so right about that RCA Tjeknavorian LP of Khachaturian's First Symphony! It is miles better than any other recording including the disappointing Tjecknavorian recording on ASV and the composer's own version. The Gauk is next best but the recording is old. RCA have a lot to answer for: where is Edward Downes's Bax Symphony 3, Morton Gould's Miaskovsky Symphony 21 (with a wonderful performance of Rimsky's 'Antar)? Linking Morton Gould with Roy Harris, I just discovered Morton Gould's fine 'Harvest' on Youtube, which seems to synthesise Harris and Copland:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pcoKsFBmk6c
Thank you for the link,vandermolen. I used to have the Varese Sarabande Lp of Gould conducting Gould,with the LSO,when I was a youngster. A sonic spectacular,with an impressive black and yellow gatefold sleeve with (I think?) a striking Aztec face or motif,on the cover. I think it had one of those fun warnings about the sonics blowing up your speakers (if you weren't careful) which was,naturally,exciting stuff for a teenage. As to the music? A fantastic,really smoking performance of his Latin American Symphonette. They made it sound like a classic! Yet,as far as I can make out,it has never been reissued on cd;and like the Tjeknavorian Khatchaturian First,I have never heard another performance which made it sound anywhere as good,or convincing.
Which brings me back to Roy Harris again! Sadly,most Morton Gould I have heard never quite seems to live up to any initial promise....if at all! Nevertheless,I really do like his third symphony,which is coupled with Harris's Second Symphony on Albany. The recording is superb and for once Gould's ideas do seem consistent and do (to my ears) hang together. It's as near as you can get to an American Malcolm Arnold (who I know he has at times been refered to). Long serious stretches,but fusing popular and classical music,but unlike Arnold,with an American sound to the orchestration. It goes well with Harris's Second,but I think it's better! There is one great bit which reminds me a little of Arnold's Sixth....you know that jazzy bit....the music seems to turn into a kind of riff. I think it's fantastic! And the sound quality is Albany at it's best!
I've been listening to Harris a bit. I figured a composer who could write a work as super-terrific as the 3rd Symphony probably deserves to be more than a 1-hit wonder.
Specifically, I've been listening to the Chorale for Organ and Brass (on a terrific Hyperion disc of American brass music), the Piano Quintet (thanks, YouTube), and the Violin Concerto (ditto).
These are all impressive works in their own way. The Chorale and the Quintet both have the same kind of long-term, evolutionary structure that the symphony has. It's a feeling of carefully calibrated increases and shifts in power, and relentless working of motifs. Reminds me of Holmboe somewhat. The Violin Concerto is a different animal, more mercurial and fantasy-like.
Again, these are all fine works, but they come with a feeling of toughness and density. It's like they lack a certain populist leavening, which I think helps in the symphony, and may contribute to their neglect. They do make me think however that Harris probably deserves at least a semi-revival.
Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on June 19, 2015, 12:54:05 PM
I've been listening to Harris a bit. I figured a composer who could write a work as super-terrific as the 3rd Symphony probably deserves to be more than a 1-hit wonder.
Specifically, I've been listening to the Chorale for Organ and Brass (on a terrific Hyperion disc of American brass music), the Piano Quintet (thanks, YouTube), and the Violin Concerto (ditto).
These are all impressive works in their own way. The Chorale and the Quintet both have the same kind of long-term, evolutionary structure that the symphony has. It's a feeling of carefully calibrated increases and shifts in power, and relentless working of motifs. Reminds me of Holmboe somewhat. The Violin Concerto is a different animal, more mercurial and fantasy-like.
Again, these are all fine works, but they come with a feeling of toughness and density. It's like they lack a certain populist leavening, which I think helps in the symphony, and may contribute to their neglect. They do make me think however that Harris probably deserves at least a semi-revival.
I remember that the Piano Quintet was a fine work. 'Abraham Lincoln Walks at Midnight' is my other firm recommendation:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ig8t40U-lE
Symphony No 6 Keith Clark Albany (The Naxos recording is awful!)
Symphony No 7 Ormandy Albany (can be hard to get at a sensible price,but there is/was a free download of an old Lp on one of those vinyl blogs)
The Naxos recording by Kuchar is quite good,but lacks the cohesion and visceral excitement of the Ormandy;and it's coupled with No 9;one of his least successful symphonies (it meanders and you feel you've heard Harris do the same thing better before!)
I quite like No 5 in the old, Whitney recording,available on Albany. (The Naxos recording is passable,at best!)
His 'Memories of a Child's Sunday' is a lovely work. It has the humour and lightness of touch that his symphonies so often lack. It can be heard on Albany,coupled with his eighth and ninth symphonies.
An interesting-looking recording of some chamber music, incl. the Piano 5tet. Anyone heard this one?
http://www.amazon.com/Harris-Chamber-Quintet-Strings-Quartet/dp/B000AA4JAC/ref=pd_rhf_gw_p_img_10?ie=UTF8&refRID=1F93EAT7TEH6827PBW2G
Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on June 19, 2015, 02:56:26 PM
An interesting-looking recording of some chamber music, incl. the Piano 5tet. Anyone heard this one?
http://www.amazon.com/Harris-Chamber-Quintet-Strings-Quartet/dp/B000AA4JAC/ref=pd_rhf_gw_p_img_10?ie=UTF8&refRID=1F93EAT7TEH6827PBW2G
I mean... the saaamples sound nice,...
Are you coming fresh to the Harris? Hmmm... you should probably read this Thread. We've ALL been down this road, oy vey! Besides, you're going to run out of material quickly, so, just go with Syms. 3...5-7... then you have the disc with 8-9.... then 11,... No.1, and maybe somewhat No.2, may be of interest, BUT PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DON'T VENTURE BEYOND 11, FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY!!!!!!!! :o ??? :o
HARRIS RULE NO.6: Any of the smaller pieces that you can get on BayCities, or Delos, are all echt-Harris, but, they are piecemeal. Like the 'Chorale' you mentioned, they all usually have that thing that makes you want to return- and wish they were all on one disc!
HARRIS RULE NO.1: You're going to end up listening to No.3,... Bernstein,... period.
HARRIS RULE NO.4: Never, under any circumstances, listen to Symphony No.13!!
Quote from: snyprrr on June 19, 2015, 06:11:51 PM
HARRIS RULE NO.6: Any of the smaller pieces that you can get on BayCities, or Delos, are all echt-Harris, but, they are piecemeal. Like the 'Chorale' you mentioned, they all usually have that thing that makes you want to return- and wish they were all on one disc!
HARRIS RULE NO.1: You're going to end up listening to No.3,... Bernstein,... period.
HARRIS RULE NO.4: Never, under any circumstances, listen to Symphony No.13!!
I've had the Bernstein 3rd for ages. Also the Ormandy (LP only). Just started branching out.
I found this on the Classical.net site. This is why he reminds me of Holmboe, and maybe Simpson too:
The one-movement, cyclical symphony in particular appealed to him, as well as a development method called "autogenesis," whereby an idea undergoes a kind of continual variation or suggests new ideas (usually from a subordinate line), which the composer then varies in the same way. This results in long movements, cumulative in their powerSimilar to Holmboe's "symphonic metamorphosis" concept.
BTW where are Harris Rules 2, 3 & 5?
Quote from: cilgwyn on June 19, 2015, 02:41:38 PM
Symphony No 6 Keith Clark Albany (The Naxos recording is awful!)
Symphony No 7 Ormandy Albany (can be hard to get at a sensible price,but there is/was a free download of an old Lp on one of those vinyl blogs)
The Naxos recording by Kuchar is quite good,but lacks the cohesion and visceral excitement of the Ormandy;and it's coupled with No 9;one of his least successful symphonies (it meanders and you feel you've heard Harris do the same thing better before!)
I quite like No 5 in the old, Whitney recording,available on Albany. (The Naxos recording is passable,at best!)
His 'Memories of a Child's Sunday' is a lovely work. It has the humour and lightness of touch that his symphonies so often lack. It can be heard on Albany,coupled with his eighth and ninth symphonies.
I've recently discovered the Harris 6th. Or should I say re-discovered? I've only heard it on the Naxos recording but I'm impressed with the work as a whole. Prior to this point, I've preferred the 7th and 3rd symphonies (in that order). I just gave the Naxos 7th a listen and while the fidelity is better I much prefer the Ormandy recording; there is so much more power and confidence to that performance.
I believe Harris is a composer best mixed in with other composers. If I binge on his symphonies or chamber works ( which are deserving of more performances and recordings), the very sound that is so uniquely Harris can start to bore me. But when I take his music the way I would in a concert, his music is so intensly melodic and tonally inventive, I will always enjoy it. Sometimes I find myself craving for that sound of Harris, the open spaces and modal harmonies make for, what I consider, the definitive American sound. Not that all his work is uniformly good, but Symphonies 1,3,5,6,7,9 are classic Harris. He's got a sound and all his work has it. I've got to listen to the Clark recording of the 6th and look for another 7th.
Quote from: Rons_talking on June 20, 2015, 03:29:51 AM
I've recently discovered the Harris 6th. Or should I say re-discovered? I've only heard it on the Naxos recording but I'm impressed with the work as a whole. Prior to this point, I've preferred the 7th and 3rd symphonies (in that order). I just gave the Naxos 7th a listen and while the fidelity is better I much prefer the Ormandy recording; there is so much more power and confidence to that performance.
I believe Harris is a composer best mixed in with other composers. If I binge on his symphonies or chamber works ( which are deserving of more performances and recordings), the very sound that is so uniquely Harris can start to bore me. But when I take his music the way I would in a concert, his music is so intensly melodic and tonally inventive, I will always enjoy it. Sometimes I find myself craving for that sound of Harris, the open spaces and modal harmonies make for, what I consider, the definitive American sound. Not that all his work is uniformly good, but Symphonies 1,3,5,6,7,9 are classic Harris. He's got a sound and all his work has it. I've got to listen to the Clark recording of the 6th and look for another 7th.
The Harris 6th Symphony is very moving and the Clark recording is the best. For me it is forever associated with the death of my father as I discovered it around that time and found that it said something to me personally - at that moment. So, my opinion is very subjective.
Quote from: snyprrr on June 19, 2015, 06:11:51 PM
I mean... the saaamples sound nice,...
Are you coming fresh to the Harris? Hmmm... you should probably read this Thread. We've ALL been down this road, oy vey! Besides, you're going to run out of material quickly, so, just go with Syms. 3...5-7... then you have the disc with 8-9.... then 11,... No.1, and maybe somewhat No.2, may be of interest, BUT PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DON'T VENTURE BEYOND 11, FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY!!!!!!!! :o ??? :o
HARRIS RULE NO.6: Any of the smaller pieces that you can get on BayCities, or Delos, are all echt-Harris, but, they are piecemeal. Like the 'Chorale' you mentioned, they all usually have that thing that makes you want to return- and wish they were all on one disc!
HARRIS RULE NO.1: You're going to end up listening to No.3,... Bernstein,... period.
HARRIS RULE NO.4: Never, under any circumstances, listen to Symphony No.13!!
:laugh: And boy,have I trodden that road!! Just look at some of my (numerous) posts.......but I'm sure you've all got better things to do............like,for instance;trying to find out whether Roy Harris composed anything as good as No 3?!!! ;D
'Rons_talking'. If you like his Sixth,I really would urge you to acquire the Keith Clark recording,either secondhand or via a download. The Naxos comparison sounds lacklustre by comparison,and the horns (or whatver they are,I'm just a listener!) on the Keith Clark will have you sitting up! They really let rip! Even if you are someone who is dubious about the overall merits of this composer,the sound they make is really something!
Actually,I prefer No 6 to No3 and it is my most played Harris symphony.....so maybe,at least for some people,Harris did do something 'better' than No 3. Although,some people would point to No7;and now you've got me going again............!! >:( :-[ ;D
'Vandermolen'. I have the same reaction to Beethoven. My mother loved his music,particularly the 'pastoral'. Of course,Beethoven is an acknowledged great;but there is that emotional identification.
'Archaic Torso of Apollo'. I wouldn't go out of my way to obtain that cd of his chamber music. I had the cd,but it eventually found it's way to the YMCA! I did rip a copy,however and I will have another listen when I feel in the right mood. I seem to recall that there were very few surprises there;just the usual Harris rhetoric,pared down,of course. Less bombast one might think;but strangely enough,I think,for once,that is the essential Harris quality I missed! ;D
To be fair to Roy Harris. His ability,or inability,to come up with anything on a par with his third,has kept this thread going......in a way!! I mean,did he or didn't he?! And then there's always the " Roy Harris just bores the b***** socks off me....who cares?" type post",to help keep the controversy going!!??? ;D
Quote from: cilgwyn on June 21, 2015, 02:52:04 AM
'Archaic Torso of Apollo'. I wouldn't go out of my way to obtain that cd of his chamber music. I had the cd,but it eventually found it's way to the YMCA! I did rip a copy,however and I will have another listen when I feel in the right mood. I seem to recall that there were very few surprises there;just the usual Harris rhetoric,pared down,of course. Less bombast one might think;but strangely enough,I think,for once,that is the essential Harris quality I missed! ;D
You may be right. Maybe I should stick to the 3rd Symphony and that brass thing I got recently. Although some praise the 7th Sym. and the Violin Concerto as well: these seem to be solid works.
Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on June 21, 2015, 09:18:48 AM
You may be right. Maybe I should stick to the 3rd Symphony and that brass thing I got recently. Although some praise the 7th Sym. and the Violin Concerto as well: these seem to be solid works.
Now, now,... remember what I said about the smaller pieces,... just listen to the piece that's on that Delos/William Schuman disc... with the Lincoln thing? Or, listen to the 'Cimarron' Overture?,... sorry, can't remember the titles,...I'M NOT EVEN SURE i KNOW WHERE THE hARRIS (opps) Works List is.
Hey,... if yer gonna,... then,... why not?
I'd even be willing to get that Albany disc of 8-9 again, just for kicks.
See? You're making me want to go get that Clark 6th,... and the 5th w/Violin Cto.,...oh shit, I just got the bug, .... off to Amazon...
Quote from: snyprrr on June 26, 2015, 04:23:38 PM
Now, now,... remember what I said about the smaller pieces,...
What a coincidence, I was just looking at this piano music disc, which has gotten good reviews:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/818JFCGwkiL._SX355_.jpg)
Quotethe Lincoln thing?
In regard to this...was Harris ruined because he got a swelled head and decided to consciously become his own concept of a (
drumroll) "great American composer"?
You know: "Abe Lincoln Walks at Midnight," "George Washington Takes a Drink at Noon," "Thomas Jefferson Relaxes on the Porch in the Evening" - that kinda thing. I view with skepticism this type of public-spirited, ceremonial music.
Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on June 26, 2015, 04:40:25 PM
What a coincidence, I was just looking at this piano music disc, which has gotten good reviews:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/818JFCGwkiL._SX355_.jpg)
In regard to this...was Harris ruined because he got a swelled head and decided to consciously become his own concept of a (drumroll) "great American composer"?
You know: "Abe Lincoln Walks at Midnight," "George Washington Takes a Drink at Noon," "Thomas Jefferson Relaxes on the Porch in the Evening" - that kinda thing. I view with skepticism this type of public-spirited, ceremonial music.
And yet the 'Abe Lincoln walks at Midnight' is a fine, moving understated work. Having said that I saw Harris interviewed on TV once and did not especially warm to him, preferring Copland as an individual.
Quote from: vandermolen on June 29, 2015, 11:55:01 AM
And yet the 'Abe Lincoln walks at Midnight' is a fine, moving understated work. Having said that I saw Harris interviewed on TV once and did not especially warm to him, preferring Copland as an individual.
From what I've heard and read, Harris considered himself the true king of American music and was not very well liked by some. While we seem to expect and admire that arrogance from our athletes, it is, I suppose, unbecoming for composers to act in such a manner (unless you're a rock star).
Some of his keyboard music really comes alive. He seems to step out of character a bit (if you find the symphonies tiresome, which I don't...usually).
Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on June 26, 2015, 04:40:25 PM
What a coincidence, I was just looking at this piano music disc, which has gotten good reviews:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/818JFCGwkiL._SX355_.jpg)
In regard to this...was Harris ruined because he got a swelled head and decided to consciously become his own concept of a (drumroll) "great American composer"?
You know: "Abe Lincoln Walks at Midnight," "George Washington Takes a Drink at Noon," "Thomas Jefferson Relaxes on the Porch in the Evening" - that kinda thing. I view with skepticism this type of public-spirited, ceremonial music.
No no no=
I meant the
Delos disc with Copland and Harris with James Earl Jones... the Harris piece is NOT vocal (nor even Presidential), just two smaller pieces that yet convey the cool idiom. Yea, no, I'm not sure I'm fond of all those other works...mmm...
AGAIN, MY WHOLE POST DELETED!! >:D
Short version: I just got 8 & 9, and 11,... going the odd route,... will update...WHAT MADE ME DO THIS, i DON'T KNOW (whoops- out of all the choices I had- we'll see and report....
Symphony No.11
Starting with a darting, irrisssisssabbble piano, this work chalks up as Harris's most Abstract work, though his signature sound runs through the entirety. I found 8, 9, & 11 somewhat maddening in that they all bear the hallmarks of No.3, all without coming close to releasing The Big Melody: all is build-up and fragments, but without that big yearning motif that closes out No.3. Still, they all hint and beat around the bush, and it's this game that is the most fun to listen to here.
Out of the three, 11 has the most to offer the serious listener. As soon as one thinks Harris is treading water, he comes up with something different. I was struck as to how masterful this single movement construction is built, he really does know a thing or two, and so what if his trademark runs the show? Surely, his schtick is one of the best schticks going, so, eh, I'm gonna let him milk it. And yea, I'm still mad I don't get the Big Melody, but I get everything around it, and, in 11, that a lot of interesting sections. There's one with some low, snarling brass that sounded quite unique for Harris. I must also add that the recording is by far the best Harris recording on the market, making the proceedings that much more iauspicious- I'm tempted to call 11 a masterpiece- it's certainly constructed as such.
The disc with 8 & 9 didn't have such a brilliant, treble recording as I was expecting from Albany,- there seems to be some distance in the recording (not much at all), but, it does kind of add to the 'Lost Americana' that these scores are imbued with. Harris is just so unfailingly NAIVE, almostly laughably so, but it is this quality that haunts me here- it's like the ghost of square dancers on some Western prairie... I dunno, Harris's 'American' sound is so ubiquitous and saturated with meaning for anyone who ever thought highly of the Nation, that the Tragedy is so hidden in these later works, but comes out as a smiling face...
Oh, I'm just not in the writing mood, sorry............ I know, what am I doing in the Harris Thread anyway?????.....
Quote from: cilgwyn on December 13, 2011, 02:00:58 PM
Finally,to paraphrase something they often say on the Havergal Brian thread........back to Harris! ;D
Oh,and while I'm at it,here is my list of Roy Harris's best music. This is the result of my Harris marathon. I have placed each piece of music in order of merit ie the best (in my opinion) first,followed by second best & so on.........
THE BEST:
1) Symphony 3
2) Symphony 6
3) Symphony 7 (although,I'm tempted to put No 5 here!)
4) Symphony 5
5) Epilogue to Profiles in Courage: JFK
6) Violin Concerto (Although,I need to listen to it a bit more)
All the above are,in my opinion, imposing,grand,stirring,serene,beautiful & exciting in turn. I believe that any one of these works would be welcome additions to the concert hall repertory in the US & over here.
RUNNERS UP IN ORDER OF MERIT:
6) Memories of a child's Sunday
7) Symphony No 9
8) Symphony No 11 (Incidentally,I have no idea how that 'emoticon' got there!!!)
9) Symphony No 8
Not entirely sure about Symphony 1933,yet. I need to listen to it more. No's 8 & 11 have some intriguing sonorities & some of Roy Harris's most ear ticklingly original orchestration. I really DO like his use of the piano in these compositions. On a more negative level,they do seem more like extended orchestral tone poems than symphonies,but in their favour,interesting ones. Perhaps,in a way,Harris did actually succeed in doing something a little different here. To my mind,of the two, the eleventh works best.
THE WEAKEST:
10) Symphony No 2
I also rather enjoyed his Concerto for two Piano's & orchestra,especially that rollicking finale & his chamber music is worth listening to. As to 'Johnny Comes Marching home!' Well,that's fun & Harris cerainly creates some entertaining mileage out of it,fair play! ;D
To sum up: Superficially,there is a certain sameness in approach,but the more I dig in to these symphonies & some of the other compositions I have listened to,the more individuality I find in these works & just a few of them are,in my humble opinion,very fine compositions indeed! At the same time,given a push,I would still place Copland,Piston,Schuman,Diamond,Mennin and Barber on a higher level because of their far wider range of emotion & creative expression (particularly Copland & Barber,there just IS no comparison!) But I have to admit (tut! tut!) I DO like some of this music quite allot! :) I also know that allot of people find his output,beyond No 3,mind numbingly boring! ;D
OK,as Zebedee used to say :o time for bed!
yep
Quote from: snyprrr on September 19, 2015, 04:39:28 PM
Symphony No.11
Starting with a darting, irrisssisssabbble piano, [interesting review snypped]
I YouTubed this and found the piano-noodling opening quite arresting.
The piece that actually interests me right now is the Violin Concerto, you heard that one?
Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on September 22, 2015, 06:21:13 PM
I YouTubed this and found the piano-noodling opening quite arresting.
The piece that actually interests me right now is the Violin Concerto, you heard that one?
Lousiville, with 5, arriving tomorrow? Clark and 6 arriving Thurs.?
I'm giving 8 & 9 extended play this week. In the right mood, I see things I don't normally hear... Harris's naivete is quite bittersweet in this New America, he really belongs to the world of the film 'Giant',... just, a time that died a long time ago in the mind... in 8 & 9, this feeling takes on an almost ghostly comic tone, so overtly upbeat and jolly, but, as sheep being led to the slaughter. You baaarely hear it in the music, but you get tiny fragments of it, and it is up to you to keep up with the square dance. (what?)
The violinconcerto is - in my opinion- a great work. After the strange and almost unsettling opening bars - the music unfolds in glorious lyricism.
Well worth discovering!
P.
I read that Harris' 3rd Symphony was regarded as "one of the Great American Symphonies", so a few years ago I purchased it with interest (coupled with the 4th). It doesn't do a lot for me really, but there you go. The other well-known American composers can evoke America without you even having to go there, whether it's Copland's wide open plains or the big city, either with Gershwin's glamour or Bernstein's grittiness.
Quote from: cilgwyn on December 13, 2011, 02:00:58 PM
Finally,to paraphrase something they often say on the Havergal Brian thread........back to Harris! ;D
Oh,and while I'm at it,here is my list of Roy Harris's best music. This is the result of my Harris marathon. I have placed each piece of music in order of merit ie the best (in my opinion) first,followed by second best & so on.........
THE BEST:
1) Symphony 3
2) Symphony 6
3) Symphony 7 (although,I'm tempted to put No 5 here!)
4) Symphony 5
5) Epilogue to Profiles in Courage: JFK
6) Violin Concerto (Although,I need to listen to it a bit more)
All the above are,in my opinion, imposing,grand,stirring,serene,beautiful & exciting in turn. I believe that any one of these works would be welcome additions to the concert hall repertory in the US & over here.
RUNNERS UP IN ORDER OF MERIT:
6) Memories of a child's Sunday
7) Symphony No 9
8) Symphony No 11 (Incidentally,I have no idea how that 'emoticon' got there!!!)
9) Symphony No 8
Not entirely sure about Symphony 1933,yet. I need to listen to it more. No's 8 & 11 have some intriguing sonorities & some of Roy Harris's most ear ticklingly original orchestration. I really DO like his use of the piano in these compositions. On a more negative level,they do seem more like extended orchestral tone poems than symphonies,but in their favour,interesting ones. Perhaps,in a way,Harris did actually succeed in doing something a little different here. To my mind,of the two, the eleventh works best.
THE WEAKEST:
10) Symphony No 2
I also rather enjoyed his Concerto for two Piano's & orchestra,especially that rollicking finale & his chamber music is worth listening to. As to 'Johnny Comes Marching home!' Well,that's fun & Harris cerainly creates some entertaining mileage out of it,fair play! ;D
To sum up: Superficially,there is a certain sameness in approach,but the more I dig in to these symphonies & some of the other compositions I have listened to,the more individuality I find in these works & just a few of them are,in my humble opinion,very fine compositions indeed! At the same time,given a push,I would still place Copland,Piston,Schuman,Diamond,Mennin and Barber on a higher level because of their far wider range of emotion & creative expression (particularly Copland & Barber,there just IS no comparison!) But I have to admit (tut! tut!) I DO like some of this music quite allot! :) I also know that allot of people find his output,beyond No 3,mind numbingly boring! ;D
OK,as Zebedee used to say :o time for bed!
I must say,I would now revise my 'best of list' slightly,as follows (in order of preference) :
1) Symphony no 6 (more varied in mood than No 3,and the third movement is Harris at his best. The Albany cd is THE recording to get....forget Alsop!)
2) Symphony No 7 (Ormandy is the recording to go for,he really gets the architecture of the piece)
3) Symphony No 5 (Harris at his least thumping-ly partiotic;I definitely prefer it to No 3 and the Louisville recording is the one to get....forget Alsop!)
4) Symphony No 3 (Bernstein's recording)
5) Symphony No 11 (I like that piano! A definite improvement after No's 9 & 10;see below!)
6) Symphony No 8 (Another symphony in his gentler mode. The piano that features in No 11 used here)
No 9 dropped from my 'best of' list! I've had to give up on it,I'm afraid. It comes over like No 7 without the structure and momentum. It starts off well enough;but then it just seems to meander all over the place. Still,Harris finally got his symphonic groove back (albeit briefly) for No 11!
The Albany cd of Ormany's Harris 7 is a 'must hear,if you want to hear this Symphony at it's best. It's an old mono recording,but it's good for it's age,and as a performance it outclasses all the rest. The cd is deleted,and not always exactly cheap (keep looking!). Someone has a transfer on one of those Vinyl blogs. I don't know if it's still up;but it was the last time I looked! The Kuchar is quite good,if you want modern sound. The Ormandy really has the feel of the piece though,and the couplings are great! (Just had a look at the current sellers price on Amazon UK! Whoa! Definitely a mortgage job!! Look for that Vinyl blog,I say!)
Alsop on Naxos has no feel for Harris. I thought her performances of the symphonies were lousy. She had no feel for the structure. No empathy! Kuchar was better. A pity he couldn't have done more.I haven't heard the Koch recording of No 7. Comments on that recording would be very welcome!!
For No 6! Avoid the Alsop performance like the blazes!!! The Keith Clark recording with the Pacific SO on Albany is THE performance to get!! Fairly cheap from sellers on Amazon Uk at the present time,I note!
No 5 needs a really good modern traversal. The old Louisville recording has oodles more atmosphere than Alsop's drab reading,despite it's age,it's the one to go for!
Quote from: Maestro267 on September 23, 2015, 01:57:46 AM
I read that Harris' 3rd Symphony was regarded as "one of the Great American Symphonies", so a few years ago I purchased it with interest (coupled with the 4th). It doesn't do a lot for me really, but there you go. The other well-known American composers can evoke America without you even having to go there, whether it's Copland's wide open plains or the big city, either with Gershwin's glamour or Bernstein's grittiness.
I rate the Third Symphony very highly, along with those by Copland, Diamond, Hanson and William Schuman.
Hi, indeed, Harris 3rd symphony remains a most impressive work. It packs a lot of power and emotion in a concise construction.
P;
Quote from: cilgwyn on September 23, 2015, 05:15:22 AM
No 9 dropped from my 'best of' list! I've had to give up on it,I'm afraid. It comes over like No 7 without the structure and momentum. It starts off well enough;but then it just seems to meander all over the place. Still,Harris finally got his symphonic groove back (albeit briefly) for No 11!
I just listened again. I translate the meandering to be The Great West- like the meandering of Pynchon's 'Mason & Dixon'??? Like a 'Fantasy Realist'? Wouldn't you say 9 might actually be his most Complex Symphony? Sure, the melodic material is some of the most "cut" I've heard- he never lets any melody get passed the pruning shesars, but that heightens the feel for me of being in an over-perfumed hothouse,- reminding me also of that Pekinpah film about the aging cowboys who get run over by a car.
Anyhow, for some reason I'e dedicated myself here to showing 9's best side,- even though, technically, I certainly have the same basic feeling as everyone else- frankly, I think we all have the exact same-ish list because we can all HEAR the exact same thing- in the exact same guises- and I believe with the revelation that Symphonies 10, 12, & 113 are utter crap (at least, no one I know could care less to hear them) the whole Harris thing has come into sharp focus, which is only highlighting the incandescent quality that, apparently, only he possessed- the critics be ignored. Everyone hears those harmonies and progressions and goes- yummy yummy!!
Some more pieces for your consideration:
Symphony for Military Band ($25 on Amazon)- this is the one I've most wanted to hear...
American Creed (on the James Earl Jones disc)
Fantasy, Toccata, & Choral?? (Hyperion, or other...)
Quote from: pjme on September 22, 2015, 11:45:29 PM
The violinconcerto is - in my opinion- a great work. After the strange and almost unsettling opening bars - the music unfolds in glorious lyricism.
Well worth discovering!
P.
Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on September 22, 2015, 06:21:13 PM
I YouTubed this and found the piano-noodling opening quite arresting.
The piece that actually interests me right now is the Violin Concerto, you heard that one?
Just getting through the Violin Concerto. The opening bars are like the State Fair, but then, the first two notes on the violin set a tone I find totally unique- it settles down a bit, but that opening really grabbed me. The whole work is quite chipper and American, quite a contrast to the more Abstract and darker Schuman. The solo part has some real fun sounding fiddle playing- why am I thinking Malipiero? And Fulkerson plays the part with much dedication and syrupy tone- slurp!
This is one of the most successful examples for me of "American Music" - I just can't handle so much of the typical Copland-sounding stuff- this has an authentic feel.
Symphony No.5I wasn't all that taken with the opening movement, but, then, the middle slow movement reveals the true Harris, a great sounding slow bit from him. The finale was good enough to make the opener sound better. In all, I'd rate this alongside the 7th (maybe a notch lower?)- I have to get the 7th from storage- but the typical Harris naivete is on display quite openly in this war piece. Did Harris vote for Obama THE SECOND TIME???? He seems like such a believing progressive naive dupe, sorry, love him, but I'd sure like to know his politics- he wasn't a commie like so-and-so? If not, he sure comes off as being the kind that politicians love to fool. oh well
Hopefully 6 arrives tomorrow...
" Harris's melodies, in their contours, modality and flexibility of phrase structure, owe a debt to monophonic chant, Renaissance choral polyphony, Anglo-American folk music, African-American spirituals and early Protestant hymnody. He employed a 'polytonal' adaptation of the church modes, in which melodic phrases are often based on a combination of different modes built on the same tonic, this providing varying 'inflections' of scale degrees.
His harmonic idiom is based on the overtone series. The earliest surviving compositions, however, at times suggest the influence of Franck and Skryabin, possibly owing to his studies in France. "
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTU5N1gxNjAw/z/NeIAAOSws65TrMsi/$_12.JPG)
While "Did Harris vote for Obama THE SECOND TIME?" is pretty funny, you do know Harris was dead in 1979? :P
Quote from: Scion7 on September 26, 2015, 04:03:46 AM
" Harris's melodies, in their contours, modality and flexibility of phrase structure, owe a debt to monophonic chant, Renaissance choral polyphony, Anglo-American folk music, African-American spirituals and early Protestant hymnody. He employed a 'polytonal' adaptation of the church modes, in which melodic phrases are often based on a combination of different modes built on the same tonic, this providing varying 'inflections' of scale degrees.
His harmonic idiom is based on the overtone series. The earliest surviving compositions, however, at times suggest the influence of Franck and Skryabin, possibly owing to his studies in France. "
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTU5N1gxNjAw/z/NeIAAOSws65TrMsi/$_12.JPG)
While "Did Harris vote for Obama THE SECOND TIME?" is pretty funny, you do know Harris was dead in 1979? :P
That was a great LP. My older brother had it when I was a teenager and it had a big influence on me. I like both works enormously and the performances of both on Bernstein's CBS LP has never been bettered. They were a great coupling in wonderful performances.
Yeah, Bernstein is the perfect conductor for the 20th century American composers. He'd death on just about anything else, tho' - his Beethoven series was awful. Passable on Mahler.
Quote from: Scion7 on September 26, 2015, 10:37:54 AM
Yeah, Bernstein is the perfect conductor for the 20th century American composers. He'd death on just about anything else, tho' - his Beethoven series was awful. Passable on Mahler.
What about Sibelius and Shostakovich?
I like his recording of Vaughan Williams's Symphony 4.
Symphony No.6 "Gettysburg" (1949)
I've heard it decades ago, but now for just the first time. It's quite atmospheric, the tangy haze of a post-coital war conflict hanging in the air like a fetid cloud of dust and blood. The whole thing is quite elegiac, and I couldn't quite fault any of it. In that regard, I personally have to rank it 2nd in the Harris Sweepstakes. Sure, there were no real melodies, but the mood is unique and consistent, whereas, in No.5, the slow movement seems to stand out too much in inspiration from its neighbors? I also think I like No.11 in the Top3.
5 and 7 I'm tying for Fourth Place, maybe also in a tie with the Violin Concerto?
8, then 9
Quote from: snyprrr on September 26, 2015, 08:01:49 PM
Symphony No.6 "Gettysburg" (1949)
I've heard it decades ago, but now for just the first time. It's quite atmospheric, the tangy haze of a post-coital war conflict hanging in the air like a fetid cloud of dust and blood. The whole thing is quite elegiac, and I couldn't quite fault any of it. In that regard, I personally have to rank it 2nd in the Harris Sweepstakes. Sure, there were no real melodies, but the mood is unique and consistent, whereas, in No.5, the slow movement seems to stand out too much in inspiration from its neighbors? I also think I like No.11 in the Top3.
5 and 7 I'm tying for Fourth Place, maybe also in a tie with the Violin Concerto?
8, then 9
Not sure I know them all but 3,6,7 and 5 (in that order) are my favourites.
Quote from: vandermolen on September 26, 2015, 11:30:33 PM
Not sure I know them all but 3,6,7 and 5 (in that order) are my favourites.
Is that another recording of 7 on YouTube, with Davis conducting the BBC??????????????????????????????????????????????????????please imbed
sounds good to me... eh?
I'm starting to hear 11 as a Masterpiece,... it's really doing it for me!!
i FEEL THIS hARRIS SPURT COMING TO AN END(whoops)....I got caught up in Cowell Symphonies....
Quote from: snyprrr on September 28, 2015, 06:41:18 AM
Is that another recording of 7 on YouTube, with Davis conducting the BBC??????????????????????????????????????????????????????please imbed
sounds good to me... eh?
I'm starting to hear 11 as a Masterpiece,... it's really doing it for me!!
i FEEL THIS hARRIS SPURT COMING TO AN END(whoops)....I got caught up in Cowell Symphonies....
No it is a CD with Ormandy conducting on the Albany label I think. Must listen to No. 11 again.
" the tangy haze of a post-coital war"
Anybody know what this means?
Quote from: The new erato on September 29, 2015, 02:27:14 AM
" the tangy haze of a post-coital war"
Anybody know what this means?
the feel of blood and dust in the air after a brutal conflict...... donchakno!
Have any muzzie neighbors yet????? I hear the swedes are pissed that you're not taking your fair share of invaders .... errr, I mean, "asylum seekers".... excuse me, lol!! alahu akbar!!!!!!! snackbar
Symphony No.5... DISMISSED!!
Why do I do this??
Why?
It seems now that the only reason some Harris lingers is because of the OTHER works on the CD. :(
I almost wish i could get rid of all this.... arrgh, how did I get so mad????
OUT!!
(I know- just by bringing this Thread up, it may start another round of hand wringing... I'll take that chance)
Quote from: snyprrr on June 15, 2016, 07:14:41 AM
Symphony No.5... DISMISSED!!
Why do I do this??
Why?
Well...as a point of interest, I recently got the old Ormandy recording of #7. I find it at least as good as #3. Granted, it follows the same "gradual evolution across 1 mvt" template, so maybe he had a winning formula there.
Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on June 16, 2016, 07:03:52 AM
Well...as a point of interest, I recently got the old Ormandy recording of #7. I find it at least as good as #3. Granted, it follows the same "gradual evolution across 1 mvt" template, so maybe he had a winning formula there.
I listened too to the ormandy 7 again,- this time it seemed juuust a bit long at @23 mins., with a "bunch of stuff" in the middle, but, by the end, it had a decidedly dark ending I liked. Frankly, it's much harder to follow No.7, whereas one can "sing" No.3 from start to finish. So, I was able to enjoy it again, good news!
So, yea, we're down to 3, 6, 7, and the wonderful 11. I'd like to hear 1-2 again.
So, yea, we're down to 3, 6, 7, and the wonderful 11. I'd like to hear 1-2 again.
[/quote]
I agree that 3,6,and 7 are his strongest works. I find that Harris never gets old IF.... you space your listening out over a few months. I listen to the 3rd and 7th every 4 months or so, and they continue to sound fresh. And I've known the 3 and 7 since 1983. To my recollection I haven't heard the 11th. I'll have to find a recording out there. Suggestions?
Quote from: Rons_talking on June 21, 2016, 01:50:07 PM
So, yea, we're down to 3, 6, 7, and the wonderful 11. I'd like to hear 1-2 again.
I agree that 3,6,and 7 are his strongest works. I find that Harris never gets old IF.... you space your listening out over a few months. I listen to the 3rd and 7th every 4 months or so, and they continue to sound fresh. And I've known the 3 and 7 since 1983. To my recollection I haven't heard the 11th. I'll have to find a recording out there. Suggestions?
I very much agree with this view. I quite like 'Symphony 1933' too and unlike some others No.5 and 'Abraham Lincoln Walks at Midnight'. Think I'll listen to No.7 today.
I like No 5! It's more reflective.less rhetorical than some of the others. His pastoral symphony?! It makes me think of big open spaces and homely farmsteads,in North America;not here;although he did have some Welsh Blood,apparently (a Welsh boy?! ;D). The Louisville recording is still the best one,imo. It has more atmosphere and a feel for the idiom than the flabby Naxos performance. I thought Kuchar's readings of 7 & 9 were quite good (not that I like No 9 much,anyway) and I wish he could have been able to do the other symphonies. Ormandy is on a different level though;but to Kuchar's credit,I play both! Although,to be honest,maybe (probably?) not,if the Ormandy was in stereo?! Alsop no! Mine went off to the YMCA shop. I would have thought Albany would have given us a new No 5,by now! A label that really went down hill imho! :(
Quote from: cilgwyn on June 22, 2016, 05:48:59 AM
I like No 5! It's more reflective.less rhetorical than some of the others. His pastoral symphony?! It makes me think of big open spaces and homely farmsteads,in North America;not here;although he did have some Welsh Blood,apparently (a Welsh boy?! ;D). The Louisville recording is still the best one,imo. It has more atmosphere and a feel for the idiom than the flabby Naxos performance. I thought Kuchar's readings of 7 & 9 were quite good (not that I like No 9 much,anyway) and I wish he could have been able to do the other symphonies. Ormandy is on a different level though;but to Kuchar's credit,I play both! Although,to be honest,maybe (probably?) not,if the Ormandy was in stereo?! Alsop no! Mine went off to the YMCA shop. I would have thought Albany would have given us a new No 5,by now! A label that really went down hill imho! :(
I just received their CD of George Lloyd's 5th Symphony today!
Whoa,you're confusing me,Vandermolen! I thought I was in the wrong thread for a moment!! ??? ;D
Quote from: cilgwyn on June 22, 2016, 06:32:09 AM
Whoa,you're confusing me,Vandermolen! I thought I was in the wrong thread for a moment!! ??? ;D
No, my fault - Off Topic reference to Albany Records.
No,it's okay! I was posting about Albany and Fifths & I just looked at your post and wondered whether I was in the right thread for a moment! ??? It will be interesting to see if George Lloyd's Fifth makes me think of "big open spaces and homely farmsteads" when I get my 3cd set of the Downes conducted set! Something along those lines,I think;albeit with some rugged Cornish cliffs and seascapes........and,erm,Star Wars,if I'm lucky!! ??? ;D
Quote from: cilgwyn on June 22, 2016, 09:11:24 AM
No,it's okay! I was posting about Albany and Fifths & I just looked at your post and wondered whether I was in the right thread for a moment! ??? It will be interesting to see if George Lloyd's Fifth makes me think of "big open spaces and homely farmsteads" when I get my 3cd set of the Downes conducted set! Something along those lines,I think;albeit with some rugged Cornish cliffs and seascapes........and,erm,Star Wars,if I'm lucky!! ??? ;D
:)
Quote from: cilgwyn on June 22, 2016, 05:48:59 AM
I like No 5! It's more reflective.less rhetorical than some of the others.
And here I thought it was the most like propaganda!!- I mean, it's written for Russian soldiers, and sounds like DSCH's nephew, no?
His pastoral symphony?! It makes me think of big open spaces and homely farmsteads,in North America;not here;although he did have some Welsh Blood,apparently (a Welsh boy?! ;D). The Louisville recording is still the best one,imo. It has more atmosphere and a feel for the idiom than the flabby Naxos performance. I thought Kuchar's readings of 7 & 9 were quite good (not that I like No 9 much,anyway) and I wish he could have been able to do the other symphonies. Ormandy is on a different level though;but to Kuchar's credit,I play both! Although,to be honest,maybe (probably?) not,if the Ormandy was in stereo?! Alsop no! Mine went off to the YMCA shop. I would have thought Albany would have given us a new No 5,by now! A label that really went down hill imho! :(
There's the Koch recording of Harris 7/ Schuman 6 that they say isn't soooo bad. I may have to get it myself- the 7th is broken into Tracks, also, interesting...
Quote from: snyprrr on June 22, 2016, 03:36:39 PM
There's the Koch recording of Harris 7/ Schuman 6 that they say isn't soooo bad. I may have to get it myself- the 7th is broken into Tracks, also, interesting...
It's not that great in terms of performances but I enjoy it still. Ormandy is much more urgent in both works and the Naxos Schwarz in the Schuman symphony.
You don't seem to like the Kuchar recording of No7,Vandermolen. I'm not a musician,but it sounds good,to me,if you want a stereo recording. I don't like the Alsop recordings of Harris at all;although I was quite interested to hear the Fifth in more up to date sound............once!! After that,it was off to the charity shop for them! Very disappointing!! :( The Ormandy recording is on a different level of inspiration to the Kuchar. This is what great recording is all about. If only it had been in stereo;but it doesn't spoil my enjoyment. The old mono recording has plenty of atmosphere;and maybe brings out some of the harshness of those big,empty lanscapes. I must say,I can't help feeling a bit sorry for Kuchar. We can't all be Ormandy,can we?!! (Getting out my tooth brush baton! ;D).
I haven't heard the Koch. One or two reviews on the internet put me off aquiring it. Also,I'm quite happy with Kuchar and Ormandy. I actually like the way Kuchar builds up the tension with that big,grinding,granitic brass. And,there's the question of yet more expenditure! I think I probably will succumb to temptation eventually,however. I can just see MusicMagpie having a cheap copy. I just bought the Supraphon Chalabala (love that name!) of Dvorak's Erben inspired Symphonic poems for around £4!!!!! S/h copies go for upwards of £40!! Did they just make a mistake?!! Or did they realise that mugs like me will be sucked into spending even more of their dosh?!!
By the way,I just looked & the cheapest copy is from a Seller on my (personal;not saying anyone else shouldn't) don't buy from list. Phew!! ::) ;D
Quote from: cilgwyn on June 25, 2016, 05:27:16 AM
You don't seem to like the Kuchar recording of No7,Vandermolen. I'm not a musician,but it sounds good,to me,if you want a stereo recording. I don't like the Alsop recordings of Harris at all;although I was quite interested to hear the Fifth in more up to date sound............once!! After that,it was off to the charity shop for them! Very disappointing!! :( The Ormandy recording is on a different level of inspiration to the Kuchar. This is what great recording is all about. If only it had been in stereo;but it doesn't spoil my enjoyment. The old mono recording has plenty of atmosphere;and maybe brings out some of the harshness of those big,empty lanscapes. I must say,I can't help feeling a bit sorry for Kuchar. We can't all be Ormandy,can we?!! (Getting out my tooth brush baton! ;D).
I haven't heard the Koch. One or two reviews on the internet put me off aquiring it. Also,I'm quite happy with Kuchar and Ormandy. I actually like the way Kuchar builds up the tension with that big,grinding,granitic brass. And,there's the question of yet more expenditure! I think I probably will succumb to temptation eventually,however. I can just see MusicMagpie having a cheap copy. I just bought the Supraphon Chalabala (love that name!) of Dvorak's Erben inspired Symphonic poems for around £4!!!!! S/h copies go for upwards of £40!! Did they just make a mistake?!! Or did they realise that mugs like me will be sucked into spending even more of their dosh?!!
By the way,I just looked & the cheapest copy is from a Seller on my (personal;not saying anyone else shouldn't) don't buy from list. Phew!! ::) ;D
Just listened to the Kuchar, which is fine. Great recording but atmospheric 'wide open-spaces' introduction. I don't think that it has the urgency of the Ormandy which remains my favourite but I may have been influenced as the Ormandy was my introduction to that fine work. I liked the JFK tribute too on the Nazos disc.
I just listened to his 11th for the first time. I enjoyed the pianistic opening but the rest sounded all too familiar. Much of it sounds straight out of the same cookbook as the 7th and 3rd. Same recipe, in fact. Maybe if a give it a second chance...then again, I could simply listen to his earlier original-sounding works. Well, if you can't borrow from yourself, where do you go?
Quote from: vandermolen on June 25, 2016, 07:36:17 AM
Just listened to the Kuchar, which is fine. Great recording but atmospheric 'wide open-spaces' introduction. I don't think that it has the urgency of the Ormandy which remains my favourite but I may have been influenced as the Ormandy was my introduction to that fine work. I liked the JFK tribute too on the Nazos disc.
I tend to agree with you. I think it's a good performance.............. as opposed to inspired or great.....and it's in stereo! I think his reading of the JFK tribute is even better. An impressive piece imho.
Rons_talking. I agree with you about the opening;but the rest sounds too much like a re-tread. I think it's an improvement on 9-10,though!!! I took my copy to a charity shop. I ripped the symphony though & have burned it onto a cd-r;and at some point I will have another go! I would have probably kept the cd if it had been all Harris;instead of a ragbag of other composers;including Morton Gould doing his usual Copland without the tunes!! Not that I don't like Gould at all! I think his Latin American Symphonette is fun (in the right hands) his Fall River Legend Ballet is not bad,and his third symphony (like an American version of Malcolm Arnold) is grrreaaat! :)
Quote from: Rons_talking on June 29, 2016, 03:41:27 PM
I just listened to his 11th for the first time. I enjoyed the pianistic opening but the rest sounded all too familiar. Much of it sounds straight out of the same cookbook as the 7th and 3rd. Same recipe, in fact. Maybe if a give it a second chance...then again, I could simply listen to his earlier original-sounding works. Well, if you can't borrow from yourself, where do you go?
I'll disagree here.
First, I'm giving Harris credit for actually creating something new in his style, that piano bit, which comes from Symphony No.8. So, we actually have to acknowledge that ... since, in the Harris world we are all grasping for straws.
Second, the Harris style HAS been "updated" to the '60s, and surely one can hear the more urban fount of this music. Now, specifically, I find some very delicious low brass in this work: there is one section that really impressed, but I forget where.
I just thought 11 had an exuberance (the '60s thing?) missing from earlier work. Though it is Harris through and through (and, seriously, what harm is that? I call this top-shelf "Late" Harris), there certainly is even more propulsive energy here than earlier (which, again, I chalk up to the '60s).
Harris is just showing how '40s America has turned into the vast urban landscape of the post-war decades. I think it a very uplifting and juicy work. ANYONE ELSE WOULD BE PROUD TO CALL IT THEIR OWN.
So, once again, I do believe the is love aplenty written into this piece, especially in the juicy brass bits- and the recording does it all full justice. I really want you to see the light on this one. Harris needs it! ;)
You sound like a convert to the cause,snyprrr?!! ??? ;D
Quote from: cilgwyn on June 30, 2016, 09:29:16 AM
You sound like a convert to the cause,snyprrr?!! ??? ;D
I have become an "advocate", as they say, for No.11. It convinced me Harris had one more wad in him, and I want everyone to hear it as his "LATE MASTERPIECE: whoops----
I mean, it was written in the ;60s- No.3's era was long gone, but the Harris Americana Theme surely had a "transformation" coming during the turbulent 60s... I just wish we could listen to it with "60s ears" instead of "30s ears". It think we shouldn't compare 11 with 3. It's not contructive. 11 has seen technology 3 never had, so, I see Harris as having absorbed a lot of subtle things along the way.
oy- yea, this is Harris's last stand, lol!!
I will listen again to 'Gettysburg'/Clark...
And yes, again, I do champion a lot of smaller Harris works, like the ones on that James Earl Jones disc.
Enjoyed 6 and 11 today...
The Clark 6 sounds quite sumptuous. I still spotted just a hint of Harris weakness in some of the apparent rambling, but, then, this is 'Americana', and all American Composers ramble on a bit, so, anyhow, here I can give it to him, whereas in 5 it really sounds bombastic and maudlin to me (Russian propaganda I tell you!!).
11's virtuosity lies in its fruity orchestration, along with, the usual quicksilver abruptions (?)... I will give you that in both pieces one is obviously reminded of ...mm... certain things... but I'd say my estimation of Harris has been somewhat amended.
EVEN THOUGH I cut some works from my list, I raised his star a half notch. 11 has actually gone a long way to giving Harris a second look for me.
ok, I'm sure I must have adrunken too muchj imbiddedness
There's a new recording of the Violin Cto. coming out soon (coupled with Adams):
https://www.amazon.com/Roy-Harris-John-Adams-Concertos/dp/B01J602MA0/ref=sr_1_13?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1472924133&sr=1-13&keywords=roy+harris
I YouTube'd the currently available performance a while back, and liked it. Definitely one of his better works. Oddly enough, not played at all during his own lifetime, as far as I know.
Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on September 03, 2016, 09:40:09 AM
There's a new recording of the Violin Cto. coming out soon (coupled with Adams):
https://www.amazon.com/Roy-Harris-John-Adams-Concertos/dp/B01J602MA0/ref=sr_1_13?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1472924133&sr=1-13&keywords=roy+harris
I YouTube'd the currently available performance a while back, and liked it. Definitely one of his better works. Oddly enough, not played at all during his own lifetime, as far as I know.
Both pieces were broadcast on BBC Radio 3 (probably the same recording that will be coming out). I'd call it a valuable addition to the catalogue. I hadn't heard the Harris before and I really enjoyed it.
Although I much prefer this performance -
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_1080/MI0001/076/MI0001076012.jpg?partner=allrovi.com) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51NchsgyVNL.jpg)
[asin]B01KBI4TR0[/asin] &
[asin]B000056OEE[/asin]
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2006/Mar06/harris_fecd0005.htm
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2005/Jan05/Harris_FE.htm
. . . but this new recording is an admirable addition to the catalogue:
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_1080/MI0004/127/MI0004127939.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
[asin]B01J602MA0[/asin]
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/sep/29/tamsin-waley-cohen-harris-adams-violin-concertos-cd-review-signum
Quote from: Scion7 on October 09, 2016, 12:07:16 AM
Although I much prefer this performance -
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_1080/MI0001/076/MI0001076012.jpg?partner=allrovi.com) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51NchsgyVNL.jpg)
[asin]B01KBI4TR0[/asin] &
[asin]B000056OEE[/asin]
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2006/Mar06/harris_fecd0005.htm
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2005/Jan05/Harris_FE.htm
. . . but this new recording is an admirable addition to the catalogue:
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_1080/MI0004/127/MI0004127939.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
[asin]B01J602MA0[/asin]
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/sep/29/tamsin-waley-cohen-harris-adams-violin-concertos-cd-review-signum
Looks like an interesting new release. I also like that Louisville/Albany disc.
Here is a fascinating CD as it features the premiere performance of Roy Harris's 5th Symphony (Boston SO/Koussevitsky 1943). The symphony was dedicated to the USSR as a wartime ally, something which got Harris into trouble later on. The performance is a powerful, craggy and gritty one - the best I have heard. It is of the original version of the symphony. The booklet includes interesting material from Harris outlining his thinking as he composed the symphony. The Edward Burlingame Hill is quite Baxian and no other recording exists. I haven't yet listened to Diamond's Second Symphony but as I like the work very much I'm sure it will be enjoyable:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2016/Nov/Koussevitzky_American_PASC484.htm
Added later. The performance of the Diamond is sensational. Much darker and more concentrated than the Delos/Naxos version, good as that is.
Ooh,more temptation!! Definitely,my cup of tea! Unfortunately,when I tried to look,the website seems to be down to maintenance,and,or an issue with the site provider?;And the best performance of the Fifth you have heard,you say? There is some music by Burlingame Hill on this cd (pictured below....nice painting,too!) of course (Stevensoniana Suite No 1,op24 ). Inspired by poems by Stevenson. Rather nice it is too. Robert Louis Stevenson's 'A Childs Garden of Verses' was a well known collection when I was a youngster. I know a symphony has been recorded,recently,as well,but I haven't heard it. And Diamond Symphony No 2.too! Sounds like a 'must hear'!
(http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/dinasman/71Ihgii1qNL._SL1050__zpstssmx1f0.jpg)
This is the cd recording of the Sixth symphony of Roy Harris that anyone who is interested in this composer needs to own. It's available on the Albany label.I remember hearing it on the radio in the 1980's and thinking,"Wow! What's that?" I didn't hear it again for quite a few years..........until that is,I got the internet and finally bought this cd. Forget that lousy Alsop Naxos recording. This is the one!
(http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/dinasman/71OUVPqElcL._SL1050__zpsaljqxc2q.jpg)
Quote from: cilgwyn on December 08, 2016, 03:55:46 PM
This is the cd recording of the Sixth symphony of Roy Harris that anyone who is interested in this composer needs to own. It's available on the Albany label.I remember hearing it on the radio in the 1980's and thinking,"Wow! What's that?" I didn't hear it again for quite a few years..........until that is,I got the internet and finally bought this cd. Forget that lousy Alsop Naxos recording. This is the one!
(http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/dinasman/71OUVPqElcL._SL1050__zpsaljqxc2q.jpg)
It's terrific. I had the LP out of the record library. The slow movement is beautiful.
Quote from: cilgwyn on December 08, 2016, 01:33:41 PM
Ooh,more temptation!! Definitely,my cup of tea! Unfortunately,when I tried to look,the website seems to be down to maintenance,and,or an issue with the site provider?;And the best performance of the Fifth you have heard,you say? There is some music by Burlingame Hill on this cd (pictured below....nice painting,too!) of course (Stevensoniana Suite No 1,op24 ). Inspired by poems by Stevenson. Rather nice it is too. Robert Louis Stevenson's 'A Childs Garden of Verses' was a well known collection when I was a youngster. I know a symphony has been recorded,recently,as well,but I haven't heard it. And Diamond Symphony No 2.too! Sounds like a 'must hear'!
(http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/dinasman/71Ihgii1qNL._SL1050__zpstssmx1f0.jpg)
Yes - a must for you I think. >:D
(http://files.constantcontact.com/1b8326c0101/d660d9eb-72c7-444e-b6bf-2320bc0ca6c5.jpg?a=1125986770367)
terrific! Want to buy it .
P.
Quote from: pjme on December 09, 2016, 02:10:00 AM
(http://files.constantcontact.com/1b8326c0101/d660d9eb-72c7-444e-b6bf-2320bc0ca6c5.jpg?a=1125986770367)
terrific! Want to buy it .
P.
That's the boy! ;D And recordings of these symphonies by great conductors aren't exactly in great (geddit?! ;D) supply! That's not to dimish Robert Whitney's achievement,though. His Fifth has served me well for years,and his recordings are usually good and compensate for any shortcomings with commitment and great atmosphere.
Regarding the Harris sixth. The Albany cd recording was a reissue from another label,wasn't it? What Lp label was the sixth on? Can you remember,vandermolen? Did Albany produce Lps before cds? Like Chandos and Hyperion? Or was it on another label? I seem to recall that my library copy of the Harris Fifth was coupled with Bohuslav Martinu!! (No 5?) on RCA Gold Seal?!! (I think we might even have discussed this once?!)
??? :( :( :(
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Is this the Lp you once owned?!
(http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/dinasman/harris-symphony-no.-6-gettysburg-ives-overture-from-the-third-orchestral-set-world-premiere_22970531b_zpsypwq1dy7.jpg)
I must admit, the 3rd Symphony doesn't do as much for me as I thought it would. What with it being regarded as one of the Great American Symphonies, "evoking vast landscapes" etc. I think Copland did that much better. Harris 3 is alright, but it didn't bowl me over completely like I'd expect a Great American Symphony to.
Quote from: cilgwyn on December 09, 2016, 11:19:47 AM
Is this the Lp you once owned?!
(http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/dinasman/harris-symphony-no.-6-gettysburg-ives-overture-from-the-third-orchestral-set-world-premiere_22970531b_zpsypwq1dy7.jpg)
Yes, that is the one - a wonderful LP. It has an enormous significance for me as I discovered it around the time my dad died in 1985. Whilst staying with my mother I often played the LP so, in my mind, it became connected with my father. This has always added to the poignancy of this work and I totally agree that this is by far the best performance of it. Thanks to pjme for posting the cover of the marvellous Koussevitsky disc.
A bump up for this thread. Have any of you ever heard a Harris symphony played live? Especially those of you who live in USA. I did hear it performed live at the London Proms decades ago. It was conducted by Aaron Copland and I remember that my brother and I were very disappointed by what seemed to us to be a very unidiomatic performance. As for recordings of the Third Symphony, Bernstein's recording on Sony remains my favourite but I also like the underrated Jarvi recording on Chandos.
Quote from: vandermolen on September 27, 2017, 02:03:22 AM
A bump up for this thread. Have any of you ever heard a Harris symphony played live? Especially those of you who live in USA. I did hear it performed live at the London Proms decades ago. It was conducted by Aaron Copland and I remember that my brother and I were very disappointed by what seemed to us to be a very unidiomatic performance. As for recordings of the Third Symphony, Bernstein's recording on Sony remains my favourite but I also like the underrated Jarvi recording on Chandos.
I've never seen Harris on a program here in Atlanta (or elsewhere in the States). Not surprising in the slightest. We're more likely to hear something from Vaughan Williams before we ever hear a work from Harris. I hate to say it but the US is a dried-up, culture-less wasteland.
Quote from: vandermolen on September 27, 2017, 02:03:22 AM
A bump up for this thread. Have any of you ever heard a Harris symphony played live? Especially those of you who live in USA.
I have not, nor have I been aware (I may have been inattentive...) of any
Harris symphony being programmed by the
BSO while we've been in town.
Tangential to the topic, but . . .
Quote from: Mirror Image on September 27, 2017, 04:01:03 AM
I hate to say it but the US is a dried-up, culture-less wasteland.
Oh, I don't know . . .
https://www.youtube.com/v/H1GX6gAmom8
Quote from: Mirror Image on September 27, 2017, 04:01:03 AM
I've never seen Harris on a program here in Atlanta (or elsewhere in the States). Not surprising in the slightest. We're more likely to hear something from Vaughan Williams before we ever hear a work from Harris. I hate to say it but the US is a dried-up, culture-less wasteland.
Thanks John and love the W. Schuman avatar (unless it has changed by now 8)). His 6th Symphony is one of the great ones as far as I'm concerned. Isn't there a saying that prophets are never appreciated in their homeland? I had a feeling that Roy Harris didn't get performed much in the USA, which I think is a shame as I rate some of his symphonies (3,5,6 and 7 in particular) highly.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on September 27, 2017, 05:39:31 AM
I have not, nor have I been aware (I may have been inattentive...) of any Harris symphony being programmed by the BSO while we've been in town.
Thanks
KarlI find that rather sad in a way.
Yes, clearly it's left to one KH to carry the flag for US culture.
:)
Well, I cannot ever believe that I am alone. For only the first thing, that performance depends upon an ensemble of highly cultivated individuals!
Quote from: Maestro267 on December 09, 2016, 12:09:57 PM
I must admit, the 3rd Symphony doesn't do as much for me as I thought it would. What with it being regarded as one of the Great American Symphonies, "evoking vast landscapes" etc. I think Copland did that much better. Harris 3 is alright, but it didn't bowl me over completely like I'd expect a Great American Symphony to.
I'd have to agree. I like it but was a bit underwhelmed after hearing so much admiration for the piece here and elsewhere. I actually prefer Harris' Sixth "Gettysburg" which is a powerfully atmospheric work.
Quote from: vandermolen on September 27, 2017, 02:03:22 AM
A bump up for this thread. Have any of you ever heard a Harris symphony played live? Especially those of you who live in USA.
The 3rd was played here last summer at the Grant Park Festival, under Carlos Kalmar. Unfortunately I was not able to go.
Quote from: vandermolen on September 27, 2017, 05:43:25 AM
Thanks John and love the W. Schuman avatar (unless it has changed by now 8)). His 6th Symphony is one of the great ones as far as I'm concerned.
I heard Slatkin conduct the Schuman 6th with the CSO a few years ago - I think I reported on it here.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on September 27, 2017, 05:42:31 AM
Tangential to the topic, but . . .
Oh, I don't know . . .
https://www.youtube.com/v/H1GX6gAmom8
Oh, Karl. You're one of the many exceptions of course! I was more or less making a generalization. :)
Quote from: vandermolen on September 27, 2017, 05:43:25 AM
Thanks John and love the W. Schuman avatar (unless it has changed by now 8)). His 6th Symphony is one of the great ones as far as I'm concerned. Isn't there a saying that prophets are never appreciated in their homeland? I had a feeling that Roy Harris didn't get performed much in the USA, which I think is a shame as I rate some of his symphonies (3,5,6 and 7 in particular) highly.
Thanks, Jeffrey. I enjoy all of the Schuman's symphonies a great deal plus many of the other orchestral works he composed. I recently bought a disc of Schuman SQs that I'm really looking forward to hearing since I've been on kind of a SQ kick this past year. I don't think it's just Harris that is unappreciated here in the States. This goes for many composers who were writing around the same time: Schuman, Diamond, Mennin, Piston, Hanson, etc.
Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on September 27, 2017, 06:25:44 AM
The 3rd was played here last summer at the Grant Park Festival, under Carlos Kalmar. Unfortunately I was not able to go.
I heard Slatkin conduct the Schuman 6th with the CSO a few years ago - I think I reported on it here.
Well, I'd loved to have heard the Schuman 6th live.
Quote from: Mirror Image on September 27, 2017, 06:37:16 AM
Thanks, Jeffrey. I enjoy all of the Schuman's symphonies a great deal plus many of the other orchestral works he composed. I recently bought a disc of Schuman SQs that I'm really looking forward to hearing since I've been on kind of a SQ kick this past year. I don't think it's just Harris that is unappreciated here in the States. This goes for many composers who were writing around the same time: Schuman, Diamond, Mennin, Piston, Hanson, etc.
Thanks John.
Much the same goes for Bax, Alwyn, Moeran and Rubbra in the UK. Not to mention Bate and Arnell!
Quote from: vandermolen on September 27, 2017, 02:03:22 AM
A bump up for this thread. Have any of you ever heard a Harris symphony played live? Especially those of you who live in USA. I did hear it performed live at the London Proms decades ago. It was conducted by Aaron Copland and I remember that my brother and I were very disappointed by what seemed to us to be a very unidiomatic performance. As for recordings of the Third Symphony, Bernstein's recording on Sony remains my favourite but I also like the underrated Jarvi recording on Chandos.
I think we've been psychically linked,... I cracked out No.3 a couple of days ago,... BOTH versions, lol (Lenny), and I ended up playing the ending over and over and over again. Surely it's my fav ending of all time? (Nielsen 4 comes to mind)
And had exceptional reactions this time to 8 and 11, both with the tinkling Orchestral Piano. I don't know, by this time, we should all know HOW to have a positive Harris experience, without getting sucked into the controversy.
I heard the Schuman 3 at the Hollywood Bowl years ago.
I like Harris better than Schuman but I have never heard him in concerts although he was performed several times by the Pacific Symphony which recorded it under Keith Clark. It is a far better recording than the NAXOS.
Somehow I feel the Harris is to American music what Rubbra is to British music.
Quote from: Mirror Image on September 27, 2017, 06:37:16 AM
I don't think it's just Harris that is unappreciated here in the States. This goes for many composers who were writing around the same time: Schuman, Diamond, Mennin, Piston, Hanson, etc.
There seems to have been a minor uptick of interest in these composers in the last few years, at least from where I sit. But emphasis on "minor." Thank God for recordings I say.
Quote from: snyprrr on September 28, 2017, 03:47:55 AM
I think we've been psychically linked,... I cracked out No.3 a couple of days ago,... BOTH versions, lol (Lenny), and I ended up playing the ending over and over and over again. Surely it's my fav ending of all time? (Nielsen 4 comes to mind)
And had exceptional reactions this time to 8 and 11, both with the tinkling Orchestral Piano. I don't know, by this time, we should all know HOW to have a positive Harris experience, without getting sucked into the controversy.
Delighted to hear it. :)
Quote from: springrite on September 28, 2017, 04:05:14 AM
I heard the Schuman 3 at the Hollywood Bowl years ago.
I like Harris better than Schuman but I have never heard him in concerts although he was performed several times by the Pacific Symphony which recorded it under Keith Clark. It is a far better recording than the NAXOS.
Somehow I feel the Harris is to American music what Rubbra is to British music.
I found your Rubbra point interesting.
Quote from: springrite on September 28, 2017, 04:05:14 AM
Somehow I feel the Harris is to American music what Rubbra is to British music.
He also reminds me of Holmboe. All three composers preferred evolutionary variation strategies to traditional symphonic forms.
Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on September 28, 2017, 10:50:43 AM
He also reminds me of Holmboe. All three composers preferred evolutionary variation strategies to traditional symphonic forms.
Very good point.
Fascinating first recordings of American music Despite the rough recorded sound,I think these are easily my favourite recordings of the Harris symphonies. If only,Ormandy had recorded the Seventh in stereo;and the Sixth in mono or stereo!! :( ;D Not to mention a Bernstein Sixth. And Seventh? Oh,and an Ormandy or Bernstein Fifth!! I think Roy Harris needs a really front rank conductor to bring off his music. (Although,I fear they don't 'make them' like that anymore?!) Though the Clark Sixth is a pretty fine recording. The Louisville Fifth is still the best commercially available recording. Kuchar's Seventh is not bad,if you insist on stereo sound. Alsop's Harris is awful;even if you like any of Harris' symphonies! :( I wonder if any recording labels will show any interest in the music of Harl McDonald,by the way. His music was played allot for a while........quite a few decades ago?! You can download some ancient recordings from "Pristine"!
(https://i.imgur.com/2mTNaI4.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/g03BYoX.jpg)
If you like Roy Harris, you might want to give Gene Gutche a try:
https://www.youtube.com/v/V-BDFZRD4GY
Quote from: cilgwyn on April 13, 2018, 03:35:59 AM
Fascinating first recordings of American music Despite the rough recorded sound,I think these are easily my favourite recordings of the Harris symphonies. If only,Ormandy had recorded the Seventh in stereo;and the Sixth in mono or stereo!! :( ;D Not to mention a Bernstein Sixth. And Seventh? Oh,and an Ormandy or Bernstein Fifth!! I think Roy Harris needs a really front rank conductor to bring off his music. (Although,I fear they don't 'make them' like that anymore?!) Though the Clark Sixth is a pretty fine recording. The Louisville Fifth is still the best commercially available recording. Kuchar's Seventh is not bad,if you insist on stereo sound. Alsop's Harris is awful;even if you like any of Harris' symphonies! :( I wonder if any recording labels will show any interest in the music of Harl McDonald,by the way. His music was played allot for a while........quite a few decades ago?! You can download some ancient recordings from "Pristine"!
(https://i.imgur.com/2mTNaI4.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/g03BYoX.jpg)
[/quote
Are you familiar with the Koch disc of Harris7/Schuman6?? I still haven't heard that one.
HOW DARE YOU STOKE MY HARRIS FIRE!!!!!
Bernstein's Sony/CBS recording of Harris's Third Symphony is in a class of its own as far as I'm concerned and much better than the later DGG version.
Quote from: vandermolen on April 13, 2018, 10:52:37 AM
Bernstein's Sony/CBS recording of Harris's Third Symphony is in a class of its own as far as I'm concerned and much better than the later DGG version.
Yeah, I agree on this. Same thing with his Schuman 3rd.
Another Harris 3rd I like is the Ormandy on RCA, which as far as I know is still LP only. A more relaxed, luxurious take on this music, showing off the famed "Philadelphia sound."
Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on April 13, 2018, 01:12:50 PM
Yeah, I agree on this. Same thing with his Schuman 3rd.
Another Harris 3rd I like is the Ormandy on RCA, which as far as I know is still LP only. A more relaxed, luxurious take on this music, showing off the famed "Philadelphia sound."
Totally agree about the Schuman 3rd and I much prefer the Sony/CBS 'Jeremiah Symphony' conducted by Bernstein to the later DGG one, although I enjoy the even earlier recording as well. I just found a copy of William Scuman's Third Symphony conducted by Ormandy on the Kipepeo label.
The 'dream' cd for me,would have been (rather like that of the Schumann 3,5 & 8) a Bernstein cd of Harris' Symphonies 5,6 & 7. Alas! :( The Pearl cd of Koussevitzky conducts American music is a bit of a 'must have' if you are,genuinely,interested in the formative years of American orchestral music. The Symphony 1933 was an early attempt at 'live' recording. Unfortunately,the engineers weren't very used to the procedure,and a bit of the opening is missing,and a few bars were re-recorded in the studio. The 'electricity' shows through,and,for my money,it's the best Symphony 1933 I've heard! The Foote and Harl McDonald are pleasant,evocative pieces;not very memorable;but no reason not to buy the cd;and enjoyable in their own way. I always used to like Pearl's transfers. Not too interventionist,and not too rough sounding. They struck a nice balance,and their booklet notes were always excellent!
Quote from: cilgwyn on April 14, 2018, 03:07:57 AM
The 'dream' cd for me,would have been (rather like that of the Schumann 3,5 & 8) a Bernstein cd of Harris' Symphonies 5,6 & 7. Alas! :( The Pearl cd of Koussevitzky conducts American music is a bit of a 'must have' if you are,genuinely,interested in the formative years of American orchestral music. The Symphony 1933 was an early attempt at 'live' recording. Unfortunately,the engineers weren't very used to the procedure,and a bit of the opening is missing,and a few bars were re-recorded in the studio. The 'electricity' shows through,and,for my money,it's the best Symphony 1933 I've heard! The Foote and Harl McDonald are pleasant,evocative pieces;not very memorable;but no reason not to buy the cd;and enjoyable in their own way. I always used to like Pearl's transfers. Not too interventionist,and not too rough sounding. They struck a nice balance,and their booklet notes were always excellent!
Yes, it's a fine historical CD, also featuring the most urgent recording of 'Symphony 1933' which I like very much.
Quote from: snyprrr on April 13, 2018, 04:51:19 AM
Quote from: cilgwyn on April 13, 2018, 03:35:59 AM
Fascinating first recordings of American music Despite the rough recorded sound,I think these are easily my favourite recordings of the Harris symphonies. If only,Ormandy had recorded the Seventh in stereo;and the Sixth in mono or stereo!! :( ;D Not to mention a Bernstein Sixth. And Seventh? Oh,and an Ormandy or Bernstein Fifth!! I think Roy Harris needs a really front rank conductor to bring off his music. (Although,I fear they don't 'make them' like that anymore?!) Though the Clark Sixth is a pretty fine recording. The Louisville Fifth is still the best commercially available recording. Kuchar's Seventh is not bad,if you insist on stereo sound. Alsop's Harris is awful;even if you like any of Harris' symphonies! :( I wonder if any recording labels will show any interest in the music of Harl McDonald,by the way. His music was played allot for a while........quite a few decades ago?! You can download some ancient recordings from "Pristine"!
(https://i.imgur.com/2mTNaI4.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/g03BYoX.jpg)
[/quote
Are you familiar with the Koch disc of Harris7/Schuman6?? I still haven't heard that one.
HOW DARE YOU STOKE MY HARRIS FIRE!!!!!
;D
The NZSO Koch disc of Schuman/Harris is usually poorly reviewed 'underpowered performances' etc. I rather like the disc however, maybe because I have such a high opinion of both works. Not a No.1 choice but good to hear an alternative take on these works.
I have got admit I haven't heard that recording. I was thinking of adding it to my collection recently;but s/h prices were far too high for me,to justify the expense. It's a pity if the performances aren't that great! The coupling of those two symphonies is quite an inspired choice. Of course one of the downsides is that Harris may come off worst in comparison to Schumann. The latter being,generally,the more highly regarded of the two;judging from numerous posts here and at the Art Music Forum (AMF). Schumann's symphony do seem to offer more of a variety of expresssion and,unlike Harris,he doesn't seem to have got himself into a 'trap' whereby each symphony can feel like a less successful retread of an earlier effort. He also doesn't seem to have gone off the rails so badly as Harris did in his last two efforts. On the other hand,I do actually prefer the Seventh to the third and I can think of worse symphonies than his Eleventh! By the way,would you say that the Koch recording of the Roy Harris is inferior to Kuchar's;which I think is quite good,if you want a stereo recording (good as opposed to Ormandy great!). And which symphony comes off best? The Harris or the Schumann? Oh,and,even if they are underpowered,hopefully the performances are a bit better than Alsop's flabby Harris?!!! But,maybe not?!! :(
Performances aside,I do rather like the composition of the underside of the bridge,against that deep blue sky!
(https://i.imgur.com/3nzy84c.jpg)
I reckon that I have nine CDs of Harris's Third Symphony (Toscanini, Koussevitsky, Bernstein x 2, Jarvi, Alsop, Mata, Hanson, Llewellyn). Up until now by far my favourite is Bernstein's original CBS/Sony version. That is still the case but a close second is one conducted by Howard Hanson, recently remastered on a Pristine Audio download, which I have as a CD. It is a terrific performance and the CD is great as it includes Griffes's 'Pleasure Dome of Kubla Khan' in a very atmospheric performance and Samuel Barber's 1st Symphony plus shorter works by Griffes. I think that the Jarvi version is underrated but the Bernstein and Hanson recordings are by far my favourites.
An interesting Harris-related thing happened to me yesterday.
Wife & I were walking the dog along the lakefront. We passed a very attractive house which we had passed many times before, but this time the couple that owned it were outside, doing yard work. We told them how much we admired the house, they complimented us on our cute dog, and we got into a conversation.
It turns out that the man was an amateur horn player at a high level - he plays in a couple of local (suburban) orchestras. So we got to talking about music. He had lived in the Los Angeles area and got to know a lot of musicians there, including Roy Harris back in the 1970s. In fact, he was part of a student ensemble which had recorded Harris' brass ensemble music, conducted by the composer.
I mentioned that I had the Chorale for Organ and Brass on a Hyperion CD, and he said, "oh, that's the other recording!"
I decided to track down the recording he had mentioned. This must be it:
https://www.discogs.com/Roy-Harris-Harris-Conducts-Harris/release/5489817
I've never heard of it, or ever seen it on CD. Anyone know this record?
Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on May 23, 2018, 12:30:58 PM
An interesting Harris-related thing happened to me yesterday.
Wife & I were walking the dog along the lakefront. We passed a very attractive house which we had passed many times before, but this time the couple that owned it were outside, doing yard work. We told them how much we admired the house, they complimented us on our cute dog, and we got into a conversation.
It turns out that the man was an amateur horn player at a high level - he plays in a couple of local (suburban) orchestras. So we got to talking about music. He had lived in the Los Angeles area and got to know a lot of musicians there, including Roy Harris back in the 1970s. In fact, he was part of a student ensemble which had recorded Harris' brass ensemble music, conducted by the composer.
I mentioned that I had the Chorale for Organ and Brass on a Hyperion CD, and he said, "oh, that's the other recording!"
I decided to track down the recording he had mentioned. This must be it:
https://www.discogs.com/Roy-Harris-Harris-Conducts-Harris/release/5489817
I've never heard of it, or ever seen it on CD. Anyone know this record?
What an interesting encounter. Yes, somewhere in the attic I have that LP. I remember liking the Concerto for Amplified Piano etc.
My favorite Harris composition that I've heard is his Sixth Symphony (Gettysburg), a powerful and atmospheric score. I also like the celebrated Third Symphony, but it is not among my favorite American symphonies (I prefer the third symphonies of Copland, Diamond, Hanson, and Schuman). I'm not a great fan of the Fifth Symphony, which I found rather banal.
Quote from: kyjo on May 24, 2018, 07:15:09 AM
My favorite Harris composition that I've heard is his Sixth Symphony (Gettysburg), a powerful and atmospheric score. I also like the celebrated Third Symphony, but it is not among my favorite American symphonies (I prefer the third symphonies of Copland, Diamond, Hanson, and Schuman). I'm not a great fan of the Fifth Symphony, which I found rather banal.
I like No.6 as well, especially in the Keith Clark/Pacific SO recording. I think that Diamond's Symphony 3 is one of the great American symphonies. I also like No.2 by Paul Creston very much. I quite like the Harris No.5 but prefer No.7, especially with Ormandy conducting - it's on a wonderful Albany CD with William Schuman's epic Symphony 6, which I consider a masterpiece.
I rather like the Fifth. I have fond memories of listening to the original Lp,which I borrowed one of the local libraries. I don't find it banal. I find some of the scoring in the quieter moments of that symphony has a lovely luminescent quality to it which makes me think of vast prairies. I sometimes wish Harris' had taken a less hectoring approach to his music It's,all too often,so patriotic and nationalistic. It can be a bit wearing at times,which is why I probably listen to other American composers like Copland,Barber,Piston,Mennin,for instance, more often. I remember as a youngster finding Harris' style exciting,though. It made me think of Western's!! ::) ;D I do think that the Sixth and Seventh are finer symphonies,though. The Sixth in the Pacific Symphony Orchestra recording,anyway. It sounds like a different work in the Naxos recording. And not in a good way!! ??? :( I think the Sixth and Seventh symphonies are impressive symphonies,particularly the Seventh. The hectoring tone means that I don't play it as often as some other American symphonies. But when I do listen to it,I enjoy it. I happen to think that parts of it are quite exciting. I could the same of the Sixth,which again contains the same luminescent quality in it's quieter moments,as the Fifth. I only wish Bernstein or Ormandy,or better still,both,had recorded the Sixth and Seventh symphonies,and in stereo. I have long come to the conclusion that Harris is one of those composers that is tricky to bring off. I'm not making excuses for him (at least I don't think I am! ;D) but just comparing recordings of these symphonies brings me to that conclusion. On the other hand,I think Alsop just didn't have any real understanding of his idiom. I think Kuchar's recording of the Seventh is everything that Alsop's recordings weren't. I find it a very satisfying reading. Ormandy is on another level;but sometimes I want to hear the Harris in stereo. I wish Kuchar could have recorded some more;and preferably not the Ninth! It starts off well then seems to meander aimlessly and repeat the kind of gesturing that Harris did better in his two earlier symphonies. It didn't sound any better in the Albany recording conducted by David Alan Miller,either!! I usually turn off the Naxos cd as soon as the Seventh ends! :( ;D I also think if Bernstein or Ormandy had been able to record the Sixth and Seventh Symphonies in stereo we might (note the word,might!) have a higher opinion of his legacy! You may have noticed I haven't mentioned his most famous symphony;the third. I loved it as a youngster. I had the later Bernstein recording,which was coupled with the Copland Third. I had hardly played the Copland! Now it's the Copland that keeps getting played here! To me,the Copland has all the qualities that Harris tends to lack. I also think that Harris' Sixth and Seventh symphonies are superior;and as a one movement statement the Seventh is a more impressive achievement. So,in a way,Harris did evolve a little further,despite what some of his critics might say. I think that part of the appeal of the Harris might have been that catchy theme that is repeatedly rolled out. Also,it's easy to judge it from this perspective;but in it's day,when it was new,it probably did seem like a bold,striking achievement,and I can understand why conductors,and audiences,initially took to it,in the way that they did. These days,I find that theme a bit too banal and hectoring in tone for my liking. The Seventh is more cleverly constructed and the orchestration is more varied. I'm a bit out of my depth here,not being a musician;but,for me, it makes it's point in a more interesting and less obvious way. And when I'm in the right mood,I find parts of it,and his use of brass really,quite exciting. But please note the words;"when,I'm in the right mood"!!! ;D
An interesting post cilgwyn. Ormandy did record No.7 but maybe it is in mono. I agree about the disappointing Alsop Harris recordings on Naxos. Her Bernstein symphonies 1 and 2 is much better - fine performances.
My recording of the Ormandy is certainly in mono. I usually put on the Kuchar as well,because I like to hear it in stereo,as well. His recording sounds pretty good to my ears. I just played the old Louisville recording of the Fifth and I did enjoy it. The slow movement,particularly. As when I was a youngster,getting the old RCA Lp out of the library,it seemed to conjure up the incidental music from old western movies; images of vast prairies,wagon's trundling and camp fires with comboys sitting around them!! I was thinking,eating baked beans,maybe?!! :o ;D I like some of the scoring in the final movement. I thought I detected a piano there (always a favourite!). I looked up the orchestration and sure enough!! And the whole symphony,not too long! :)
I've got Shostakovich's String Qt No 12 on now,to cheer me up!! ??? ;D
Quote from: cilgwyn on May 25, 2018, 05:53:37 AM
My recording of the Ormandy is certainly in mono. I usually put on the Kuchar as well,because I like to hear it in stereo,as well. His recording sounds pretty good to my ears. I just played the old Louisville recording of the Fifth and I did enjoy it. The slow movement,particularly. As when I was a youngster,getting the old RCA Lp out of the library,it seemed to conjure up the incidental music from old western movies; images of vast prairies,wagon's trundling and camp fires with comboys sitting around them!! I was thinking,eating baked beans,maybe?!! :o ;D I like some of the scoring in the final movement. I thought I detected a piano there (always a favourite!). I looked up the orchestration and sure enough!! And the whole symphony,not too long! :)
I've got Shostakovich's String Qt No 12 on now,to cheer me up!! ??? ;D
Yes, I'm sure that a Shostakovich SQ will perk you up for the weekend!
Quote from: springrite on January 28, 2010, 06:03:23 AM
I am so glad to hear about this recording! I first heard Harris in the 80's on the radio. It was the Clark recording of the Gettysburg. Living in LA at the time, PSO does get some occasional airing. I loved it. But I did not find any recording of the work after I graduated from school and went from a dirt poor student to a lowly paid worker. Maybe I can get this CD soon.
The 8th and 9th were indeed disappointing. But overall, I am still a Harris fan. I like the violin concerto better after the second listening. Not a great work, but certainly worth one's attention.
I just saw this old post! Yes,I remember hearing the Sixth on the radio and recording an off air cassette using my,less than hi-fi,radio cassette recorder with a telescopic aerial. Reception was always a bit dodgy where I lived. You just had to hope!! ::) ;D It was quite a few years before I heard it again and bought the cd that came out. It stayed in my head,though;which is usually a good sign. It means it made an impression on me. And in a good way. Up till then,I only knew the Harris third,from the Bernstein Lp,with the statue and a flag,or something,wrapped around it (?) and the Fifth,from the old RCA Lp,which I used to borrow from one of the local libraries. Nowadays,you just surf and click on the purchase button!! I liked them allot,at the time. I actually didn't hear the Seventh until
after I got the cd of the Sixth!
Quote from: vandermolen on May 24, 2018, 09:22:46 AM
I like No.6 as well, especially in the Keith Clark/Pacific SO recording. I think that Diamond's Symphony 3 is one of the great American symphonies. I also like No.2 by Paul Creston very much. I quite like the Harris No.5 but prefer No.7, especially with Ormandy conducting - it's on a wonderful Albany CD with William Schuman's epic Symphony 6, which I consider a masterpiece.
Agreed with you Jeffrey re. the merits of Creston's 2nd and Schuman's 6th - two great recent discoveries of mine.
Quote from: kyjo on May 26, 2018, 08:14:29 AM
Agreed with you Jeffrey re. the merits of Creston's 2nd and Schuman's 6th - two great recent discoveries of mine.
Delighted that you like these as well Kyle.
:)
I've been listening to Keith Clark's recording of Roy Harris' Symphony No 6,again,this afternoon. This is the kind of performance & recording a Harris symphony needs. Keith Clark and the Pacific Symphony Orchestra make this sound like the great American symphony this possibly is. I remember hearing this performance in a BBC Radio 3 broadcast,back in the mid 80's,and being rather excited by what I heard. I recorded the off air brodacast on my radio cassette recorder,and listened to it,until the tape got chewed up (by the machine,not me! ??? ;D). The Naxos recording came as a big disappointment. It sounded like a different work! I'm glad I didn't hear that performance first! I didn't think much of Alsop's,Fifth,either! Worse still,the brass didn't seem to come out. I remember that moment in "Conflict",where the horns let rip with this repeated,whooping sound (hard to describe). I remember when I played the work to my mother,her reaction to this moment. The effect is viscerally exciting,and quite startling (at least,the first time you hear it) in the Clark recording. In the Alsop recording the horns barely register. It reminds me,a bit,of that,huge drum thwack,in the second movement of Kabalevsky's Second Symphony,in the old Unicorn recording. I remember being quite p***** off when that,sonic highlight,seemed to be,entirely missing,from the,curiously red blood corpuscle free,Chandos recording! The symphony just didn't seem the same work without it!! >:( :( I only wish Keith Clark,and the Pacific SO,could have had a bash at my second favourite Harris symphony,No 7. Albany made some rather good recordings of Harris symphonies. I wish they could have recorded No's 5 & 7,as their recordings were all pretty good.
I happen to think that the best approach,with Harris,is not to listen to too many in a row. Put on No 6 (Clark not Alsop) or 7,on it's own;and you might start feeling he's a great American symphonist;even if you normally don't. Put on a slew of them,and the,apparent,sameness of some of the textures and rhetoric might start to take it's toll;as can all that,tub thumping,patriotism. And boy,Harris is patriotic! ::) ;D Also,the fact that some of them just aren't as good! The Ninth,for example. It starts quite well,then seems to meander all over the place! It feels like a re-run of one of the earlier efforts,without an ounce of the inspiration. I've tried in the past;but if I play the Kuchar cd of No 7 & 9,now,I just find myself pressing the off button as soon as the Seventh ends!! Still,a composer should be judged by his best work. I also quite like the Symphony 1933,in the Albany and Koussevitzky recording. And No 2,in the Albany recording,isn't bad;if you listen to it on it's own! My favourites remain No's 6,7 & 5. In that order! I,personally,think No's 6 & 7 are impressive symphonies. And No 5,in the old Louisville recording,has a nice "homespun" atmosphere,which I find appealing. It makes me think of vast prairies and cowboys sitting around campfires. Probably eating baked beans,straight outta the can!! (Yum!) Just don't listen to too many at a time! Maybe Harris cd's should have a warning on them? "Do not exceed the recommended dosage: 1-2 Harris symphonies daily!" "Be Harris aware! Know your Harris limits! (And his!! ::) ;D).
(https://i.imgur.com/F6xnlFz.jpg)
I've often mulled over buying this cd,but finally took the plunge! To my surprise,I rather enjoyed the performance of Harris' Seventh here. It does lack the urgency of Ormandy,and it does seem a tad lesiurely alongside Kuchar;but it also didn't make me feel disappointed in the way that those Alsop recordings of Harris symphonies did. In fact,I rather liked the way Keelan handled the quieter,slower,bits,and the way he seems to temper some of the patriotism,which can be a bit much sometimes (if you're in the wrong mood). To me,Keelan's performance seems to emphasise some of that homely,pastoral side to Harris. You get more of the plains,the prairies,the campfires and cowboys and I like that! Unlike,Alsop,he does seem to have some understanding of Harris' idiom,and some sort of grip on the architecture of the symphony,which does keep my attention. Even if his approach is a tad lesiurely,in comparison to Kuchar (let alone Ormandy!) it's not a flabby mess! In short ;D, think he brings out a less rhetorical,gentler side of Harris which I quite like. Also,the sound quality is just great!! I loved hearing those bass lines in such terrific sound. Not a top choice. Ormandy then Kuchar. But I really did enjoy hearing this recording. And you get the William Schumann!! :) (More on that,in another post!) I also love the composition of that photo (the span of the bridge against the blue) on the cover!
(https://i.imgur.com/GuM3TAN.jpg)
Quote from: cilgwyn on December 18, 2018, 10:11:42 AM
I've often mulled over buying this cd,but finally took the plunge! To my surprise,I rather enjoyed the performance of Harris' Seventh here. It does lack the urgency of Ormandy,and it does seem a tad lesiurely alongside Kuchar;but it also didn't make me feel disappointed in the way that those Alsop recordings of Harris symphonies did. In fact,I rather liked the way Keelan handled the quieter,slower,bits,and the way he seems to temper some of the patriotism,which can be a bit much sometimes (if you're in the wrong mood). To me,Keelan's performance seems to emphasise some of that homely,pastoral side to Harris. You get more of the plains,the prairies,the campfires and cowboys and I like that! Unlike,Alsop,he does seem to have some understanding of Harris' idiom,and some sort of grip on the architecture of the symphony,which does keep my attention. Even if his approach is a tad lesiurely,in comparison to Kuchar (let alone Ormandy!) it's not a flabby mess! In short ;D, think he brings out a less rhetorical,gentler side of Harris which I quite like. Also,the sound quality is just great!! I loved hearing those bass lines in such terrific sound. Not a top choice. Ormandy then Kuchar. But I really did enjoy hearing this recording. And you get the William Schumann!! :) (More on that,in another post!) I also love the composition of that photo (the span of the bridge against the blue) on the cover!
(https://i.imgur.com/GuM3TAN.jpg)
I replied about the Keith Clark recording on the 'What are you listening to thread'. I like the above Koch CD more than many (it was generally poorly reviewed). Above all I like the combination of two of my very favourite American symphonies. The Schuman No.6 (described somewhere as a 'Requiem for the 20th Symphony') may not be as immediately approachable as Symphony 3 but it is in my view just as great. In this case Gerald Schwarz's Naxos recording of the 6th Symphony is much more recommendable than Alsop's disappointing Harris series. I also enjoyed the Harris 7th Symphony - a more reflective view than Ormandy. As with Neeme Jarvi's Chandos CD of Harris and Copland's Third symphonies I enjoyed this one more than the critics did.
Quote from: vandermolen on December 18, 2018, 01:11:03 PM
I replied about the Keith Clark recording on the 'What are you listening to thread'. I like the above Koch CD more than many (it was generally poorly reviewed). Above all I like the combination of two of my very favourite American symphonies. The Schuman No.6 (described somewhere as a 'Requiem for the 20th Symphony') may not be as immediately approachable as Symphony 3 but it is in my view just as great. In this case Gerald Schwarz's Naxos recording of the 6th Symphony is much more recommendable than Alsop's disappointing Harris series. I also enjoyed the Harris 7th Symphony - a more reflective view than Ormandy. As with Neeme Jarvi's Chandod CD of Harris and Copland's Third symphonies I enjoyed this one more than the critics did.
I've been curious about that CD, but never got it. I'm totally happy with the Schwarz recording of the Schuman 6th (I like it better than the Ormandy, believe it or not). I also have an original LP of the Ormandy Harris 7th and am happy with that.
I've never seen any other recording with this conductor (Hugh Keelan). He's a bit of a mystery to me.
Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on December 18, 2018, 01:25:40 PM
I've been curious about that CD, but never got it. I'm totally happy with the Schwarz recording of the Schuman 6th (I like it better than the Ormandy, believe it or not). I also have an original LP of the Ormandy Harris 7th and am happy with that.
I've never seen any other recording with this conductor (Hugh Keelan). He's a bit of a mystery to me.
I also really like the Schwarz Schuman CD, not least for 'Prayer in Time of War' and the New England Triptych. Yes, I don't think that you need the Koch CD it's just that I enjoyed it more than expected. The NZSO are invariably worth hearing.
Quote from: vandermolen on December 18, 2018, 01:11:03 PM
I replied about the Keith Clark recording on the 'What are you listening to thread'. I like the above Koch CD more than many (it was generally poorly reviewed). Above all I like the combination of two of my very favourite American symphonies. The Schuman No.6 (described somewhere as a 'Requiem for the 20th Symphony') may not be as immediately approachable as Symphony 3 but it is in my view just as great. In this case Gerald Schwarz's Naxos recording of the 6th Symphony is much more recommendable than Alsop's disappointing Harris series. I also enjoyed the Harris 7th Symphony - a more reflective view than Ormandy. As with Neeme Jarvi's Chandos CD of Harris and Copland's Third symphonies I enjoyed this one more than the critics did.
I'm going to have to disagree with you here......just a bit!! ;D There
are some good reviews of this cd on the internet! Classics Today (see below) and some customer reviews on Amazon,are very positive! I do quite like the Keelan's performance of the Harris,for the reasons I described in my earlier post. The sound quality is an added bonus. It seems richer,and more spacious,than the Kuchar recording. If there were more recordings of this symphony available,I'm sure there would be a better one. Still,I was pleasantly surprised! It's not brilliant,but it does have some things about which I do like! The Ormandy is in mono. I wish it had been in stereo. Increasing the bass,via the remote, helps improve the sound quality;and yes,it is easily the finest performance. I have listened to the Kuchar recording,multiple times now,over a period of time,and I think it's a pretty good account. Not a great,as per Ormandy, but pretty good. The fact that it is in stereo and DDD sound quality is an added bonus. On that basis,I wish he could have recorded the other Harris symphonies instead of Alsop! On the other hand,while Keelan's recording of Schumann's Sixth,may be satisfactory,but there are,obviously,superior alternatives to choose from. Putting them both on one cd was a great idea,though!
I wish to goodness Bernstein could have recorded Harris' Sixth or Seventh! Having this Keelan recording of the Seventh was useful in another way,though. It has enhanced my perception of this symphony. And that's not a bad thing!! :)
https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-7090/ (https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-7090/)
Quote from: cilgwyn on December 19, 2018, 05:08:56 AM
I'm going to have to disagree with you here......just a bit!! ;D There are some good reviews of this cd on the internet! Classics Today (see below) and some customer reviews on Amazon,are very positive! I do quite like the Keelan's performance of the Harris,for the reasons I described in my earlier post. The sound quality is an added bonus. It seems richer,and more spacious,than the Kuchar recording. If there were more recordings of this symphony available,I'm sure there would be a better one. Still,I was pleasantly surprised! It's not brilliant,but it does have some things about which I do like! The Ormandy is in mono. I wish it had been in stereo. Increasing the bass,via the remote, helps improve the sound quality;and yes,it is easily the finest performance. I have listened to the Kuchar recording,multiple times now,over a period of time,and I think it's a pretty good account. Not a great,as per Ormandy, but pretty good. The fact that it is in stereo and DDD sound quality is an added bonus. On that basis,I wish he could have recorded the other Harris symphonies instead of Alsop! On the other hand,while Keelan's recording of Schumann's Sixth,may be satisfactory,but there are,obviously,superior alternatives to choose from. Putting them both on one cd was a great idea,though!
I wish to goodness Bernstein could have recorded Harris' Sixth or Seventh! Having this Keelan recording of the Seventh was useful in another way,though. It has enhanced my perception of this symphony. And that's not a bad thing!! :)
https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-7090/ (https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-7090/)
Thanks. Good to read Victor Carr Jnr's positive review of the CD although I'm not sure that I agree with him about the 'undistinguished melodic material' in the slow movement of William Schuman's 6th Symphony. Yes, it's a great shame that Bernstin did not record Harris's 6th or 7th symphonies.
Quote from: foxandpeng on October 06, 2021, 04:10:34 AM
Roy Harris
Symphonies 3 & 4
Marin Alsop
Colorado SO
Naxos
Another contender, in my mind, for the Great American Symphony #3. I'm less familiar with Roy Harris than I should be, having listened to his symphonic cycle only three or four times, but I've had more exposure to 3 in recent months and appreciate it greatly.
Cross posting from the WAYLT thread, as I have really enjoyed listening to #3 again this morning. There is real beauty and grandeur in here that combines the spacious and expansive, the luminous and the gentle, with the rugged, tempestuous, windswept and gritty. I know I am always a novice and an amateur, but hearing this today has been really good for my spirit! I'm on a bit of an Antheil, Piston, Diamond and Kernis trip at the moment, but Harris certainly continues to deliver. The recording seems fine to my dullard's ears, although I quite liked the Bernstein first thing today too. I'll probably move on to revisit some of his other less 'successful' symphonies as the day progresses, if Hanson and Hovhaness don't grab me by the scruff of the neck...
Bring on Gettysburg...
Quote from: foxandpeng on October 06, 2021, 04:38:36 AM
Cross posting from the WAYLT thread, as I have really enjoyed listening to #3 again this morning. There is real beauty and grandeur in here that combines the spacious and expansive, the luminous and the gentle, with the rugged, tempestuous, windswept and gritty. I know I am always a novice and an amateur, but hearing this today has been really good for my spirit! I'm on a bit of an Antheil, Piston, Diamond and Kernis trip at the moment, but Harris certainly continues to deliver. The recording seems fine to my dullard's ears, although I quite liked the Bernstein first thing today too. I'll probably move on to revisit some of his other less 'successful' symphonies as the day progresses, if Hanson and Hovhaness don't grab me by the scruff of the neck...
Bring on Gettysburg...
I think it's a great work and also think highly of Symphony 5,6 and 7. I prefer Bernstein's CBS/Sony recording of Symphony No.3 by Harris. I also like the much maligned recording by Neeme Jarvi on Chandos. I once saw Copland conduct a not-very-good performance of Roy Harris's 3rd Symphony in London.
Quote from: vandermolen on October 06, 2021, 04:44:55 AM
I think it's a great work and also think highly of Symphony 5,6 and 7. I prefer Bernstein's CBS/Sony recording of Symphony No.3 by Harris. I also like the much maligned recording by Neeme Jarvi on Chandos. I once saw Copland conduct a not-very-good performance of Roy Harris's 3rd Symphony in London.
I don't think I've ever heard a N Jarvi recording that I didn't enjoy, to be honest.
I still don't really warm to Harris #4, if I am honest - all the 'whip crack away' elements leave me a little cold. I think it is the choral element that in the same way leaves RVW #1 at the bottom of my preference pile in a list of otherwise outstanding symphonies. I can see why it is great, but while chest-heaving sopranos are less attractive to me, covered-wagon Doris Day & John Wayne chic reminds me more of my parents' appreciation of the American Western than of music I crave to hear.
Quote from: vandermolen on October 06, 2021, 04:44:55 AM
I think it's a great work and also think highly of Symphony 5,6 and 7. I prefer Bernstein's CBS/Sony recording of Symphony No.3 by Harris. I also like the much maligned recording by Neeme Jarvi on Chandos. I once saw Copland conduct a not-very-good performance of Roy Harris's 3rd Symphony in London.
Thanks for reminding me about the Keith Clark disc of Harris 6 - listening to it as I write this. I'd forgotten just how powerful it is (certainly in this performance). Memory serves that Alsop's Naxos disc was not nearly as gripping as this!
Quote from: Roasted Swan on October 06, 2021, 05:04:47 AM
Thanks for reminding me about the Keith Clark disc of Harris 6 - listening to it as I write this. I'd forgotten just how powerful it is (certainly in this performance). Memory serves that Alsop's Naxos disc was not nearly as gripping as this!
Yes, that's quite right.
Quote from: foxandpeng on October 06, 2021, 05:03:02 AM
I don't think I've ever heard a N Jarvi recording that I didn't enjoy, to be honest.
I still don't really warm to Harris #4, if I am honest - all the 'whip crack away' elements leave me a little cold. I think it is the choral element that in the same way leaves RVW #1 at the bottom of my preference pile in a list of otherwise outstanding symphonies. I can see why it is great, but while chest-heaving sopranos are less attractive to me, covered-wagon Doris Day & John Wayne chic reminds me more of my parents' appreciation of the American Western than of music I crave to hear.
I don't like No.4 at all!
Quote from: foxandpeng on October 06, 2021, 05:03:02 AM
I don't think I've ever heard a N Jarvi recording that I didn't enjoy, to be honest.
I still don't really warm to Harris #4, if I am honest - all the 'whip crack away' elements leave me a little cold. I think it is the choral element that in the same way leaves RVW #1 at the bottom of my preference pile in a list of otherwise outstanding symphonies. I can see why it is great, but while chest-heaving sopranos are less attractive to me, covered-wagon Doris Day & John Wayne chic reminds me more of my parents' appreciation of the American Western than of music I crave to hear.
In all seriousness 7 Brides for 7 Brothers is a work of genius
Quote from: Roasted Swan on October 06, 2021, 08:29:44 AM
In all seriousness 7 Brides for 7 Brothers is a work of genius
Bump for this thread. Currently enjoying this CD which features two of the strongest Harris symphonies:
(//)
Quote from: vandermolen on November 06, 2022, 01:33:23 AM
Bump for this thread. Currently enjoying this CD which features two of the strongest Harris symphonies:
(//)
I am going to have to return to this disk as well. Thanks for the heads up.
Quote from: Leo K. on November 07, 2022, 07:11:39 AM
I am going to have to return to this disk as well. Thanks for the heads up.
My pleasure and thanks for responding.
Coincidentally today I received a CD featuring Harris's Concerto for Two Pianos and Orchestra (1946) which I greatly enjoyed and found it fully characteristic. The opening movement reminded me of John Foulds's 'Dynamic Triptych'.
(//)
Lately I've been exploring his chamber music (yesterday I listened to his String Quartet No. 2 and it was quite a great surprise). Today it's been this disc containing his Piano Quintet, String Quartet No. 3 and Violin Sonata. The order in which the works are listed on the cover art somehow points out from the most arresting work to the least one. This Piano Quintet struck me like rather original in its ideas, each of its three movements (Passacaglia, Cadenza and Fugue) have no waste whatsoever. A brilliant piece. The SQ 3 comprises four preludes and four fugues that are interspersed. Again, the music is rather attractive and consistent throughout. Finally, the Violin Sonata impressed me in a minor degree, but it has its merits, nonetheless.
This composer's facet has opened another perspective to me since I didn't care much for his music, but now the situation is different for good.
(https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b27385d6aff910e7d9d0e79701ca)
Quote from: Løvfald on April 25, 2023, 07:04:41 PMLately I've been exploring his chamber music (yesterday I listened to his String Quartet No. 2 and it was quite a great surprise). Today it's been this disc containing his Piano Quintet, String Quartet No. 3 and Violin Sonata. The order in which the works are listed on the cover art somehow points out from the most arresting work to the least one. This Piano Quintet struck me like rather original in its ideas, each of its three movements (Passacaglia, Cadenza and Fugue) have no waste whatsoever. A brilliant piece. The SQ 3 comprises four preludes and four fugues that are interspersed. Again, the music is rather attractive and consistent throughout. Finally, the Violin Sonata impressed me in a minor degree, but it has its merits, nonetheless.
This composer's facet has opened another perspective to me since I didn't care much for his music, but now the situation is different for good.
(https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b27385d6aff910e7d9d0e79701ca)
I thought that CD was great Cesar (not cheap here as an American import). I love the cover featuring the dilapidated barn!
Quote from: vandermolen on April 25, 2023, 09:51:00 PMI thought that CD was great Cesar (not cheap here as an American import). I love the cover featuring the dilapidated barn!
I've seen a lot of those over the years. Attitude is sort of a "Why bother to tear it down when it will come down on its own [eventually]?"
I do enjoy his third symphony (have it on a Koussevitsky 2-CD set which I like very much).
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on April 26, 2023, 11:50:55 AMI've seen a lot of those over the years. Attitude is sort of a "Why bother to tear it down when it will come down on its own [eventually]?"
I do enjoy his third symphony (have it on a Koussevitsky 2-CD set which I like very much).
PD
I think that the barn is a great image for Harris's music. If you like the 3rd Symphony you might enjoy Bernstein's CBS/Sony (not the one on DGG) recording which is my favourite (the Thompson and Diamond are great works as well).
Quote from: vandermolen on April 26, 2023, 11:31:40 PMI think that the barn is a great image for Harris's music. If you like the 3rd Symphony you might enjoy Bernstein's CBS/Sony (not the one on DGG) recording which is my favourite (the Thompson and Diamond are great works as well).
Thank you for bringing that CD up Jeffrey. That one is included in this set (which I have and need to dip into further):
(https://pixhost.icu/avaxhome/35/67/007c6735.jpg)
PD
I agree with David Hurwitz's high opinion of the Violin Concerto:
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=hurwitz+roy+harris&mid=D9277645B4E5FDDB7FB7D9277645B4E5FDDB7FB7&FORM=VIRE
also:
https://www.classicalsource.com/cd/tamsin-waley-cohen-plays-violin-concertos-by-roy-harris-and-john-adams-bbc-symphony-orchestra-andrew-litton-signum/
The Fulkerson is also maaah-velous.
Concerto for Violin and Orchestra
HARRIS-Fulkerson, Louisville Orchestra, Smith
Vigoroso-5/8-♩. =100-2/2-d =52-Cadenza-d =52
1949
Quote from: vandermolen on December 11, 2023, 11:19:23 PMI agree with David Hurwitz's high opinion of the Violin Concerto:
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=hurwitz+roy+harris&mid=D9277645B4E5FDDB7FB7D9277645B4E5FDDB7FB7&FORM=VIRE
I was just listening to the Louisville recording last night!
Quote from: springrite on December 12, 2023, 12:49:11 AMI was just listening to the Louisville recording last night!
That's a fine CD too Paul - I was also listening to it this week. I thought that it was a much older recording than 1980s. I like all three works on that CD.
It's a 1960 recording, origninally.
Quote from: Scion7 on December 12, 2023, 02:49:09 PMIt's a 1960 recording, origninally.
Thanks - the CD says 1980's I think but 60s makes more sense.