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The Music Room => General Classical Music Discussion => Topic started by: Cato on March 03, 2009, 04:56:00 PM

Title: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: Cato on March 03, 2009, 04:56:00 PM
...and eccentrically numbered them 4, 5, and 6."

Such is what a writer once cracked c. 4 decades ago for the notes of an LP with Tchaikovsky's First Symphony. (I think: it could have been for #2 or #3.  And the quote is at least very close.)

On Saturday I heard Tchaikovsky's First Symphony on the radio, and the above quotation came back to me.

So what is it about the first 3?  I find them quite tuneful and inventive: formally, you can find all kinds of complaints, especially in the impotently fulminating last movement of the Third Symphony , which, however, is still fun in its frustration.  But they have all kinds of marvelous moments! 

But the emotional content takes you on some marvelous journeys: #1 "Winter Dreams" is my favorite example of this point, and to my ear is the most cogent of the 3.  #3 has some great moments of Tchaikovsky's trademark antiphony and delight in orchestration.  And how could anyone not like the ebullience and joy found in #2, especially the last movement?

So what say ye?  Why might they be considered "weak" and ignored for so long?  (We can agree that the next 3 are better works.)
Which recordings make the best case for each work?   $:)
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: George on March 03, 2009, 05:03:07 PM
Great idea for a thread!

I love Tilson Thomas's "Winter Dreams" on DG. Great mood evoked in that recording. I haven't heard any other performances of this or of one and two (at all.)  :-\

I look forward to this thread, I bet we get a lot of nice recommendations.   
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: RussellG on March 03, 2009, 05:08:55 PM
Somebody posted that they were listening to this the other day:

(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/CDUCoverArt/Music/Large/superd_1169547.jpg)

How is this one?
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 03, 2009, 05:39:28 PM
Cato - will also be interested in this thread & recommendations!  :D

Really can't recall 'how many' of PT's symphony performances that I've owned over the years, but most recently purchased an absolute bargain set w/ Rostropovich - 5-CD box for just over $20 on Amazon - stimulated for this purchase by a great Fanfare Review HERE (http://www.fanfaremag.com/content/view/28977/10238/) -  :)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51f6ymczHdL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: Cato on March 03, 2009, 05:50:16 PM
Many thanks for all the replies so far!

My first acquaintance with all 3 came through the fine recordings from the early 1960's on London with a young punk named Lorin Maazel conducting the Vienna Philharmonic.  These were once available on CD's, but Amazon says they are out of print.

I recall the positive fuss about the Tilson-Thomas First Symphony, and have heard it on the radio: excellent interpretation! One wonders why he has not recorded #2 and #3.  (i.e. I am not finding them on Amazon, etc.)  
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: Dr. Dread on March 03, 2009, 06:12:02 PM
Quote from: SonicMan on March 03, 2009, 05:39:28 PM
Cato - will also be interested in this thread & recommendations!  :D

Really can't recall 'how many' of PT's symphony performances that I've owned over the years, but most recently purchased an absolute bargain set w/ Rostropovich - 5-CD box for just over $20 on Amazon - stimulated for this purchase by a great Fanfare Review HERE (http://www.fanfaremag.com/content/view/28977/10238/) -  :)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51f6ymczHdL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

I hardly ever listen to Tchaikovsky but I do own your standard 4, 5 and 6 by Mravinsky (and a #5 by Ormandy). Maybe I'll take Dave up on his tempting recommendation.
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: some guy on March 03, 2009, 06:35:17 PM
RussellG, the Dorati is great. I haven't heard the CD, but those Mercury Living Presence LPs were good at the time, and all the one's I've replaced with CDs have sounded fine.

The performance is splendid. It's Dorati, after all!

(I also have number 2 with Abbado, which I like even more than Dorati's.)

Cato, "the impotently fulminating last movement of the Third Symphony." Really?? (I'd love to know what you think of the last movement of the fifth!!)
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: George on March 03, 2009, 07:01:54 PM
Quote from: some guy on March 03, 2009, 06:35:17 PM
The performance is splendid. It's Dorati, after all!

I haven't heard a Dorati recording I didn't love.  :)
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: RussellG on March 03, 2009, 07:13:14 PM
Quote from: George on March 03, 2009, 07:01:54 PM
I haven't heard a Dorati recording I didn't love.  :)

I have - that famous 1812 Overture, also on Mercury Living Presence.  Way, way too fast for my liking.
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: George on March 03, 2009, 07:15:23 PM
Quote from: RussellG on March 03, 2009, 07:13:14 PM
I have - that famous 1812 Overture, also on Mercury Living Presence.  Way, way too fast for my liking.

Haven't heard that one.  ;D
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: George on March 03, 2009, 07:16:34 PM
Quote from: SonicMan on March 03, 2009, 05:39:28 PM
Really can't recall 'how many' of PT's symphony performances that I've owned over the years, but most recently purchased an absolute bargain set w/ Rostropovich - 5-CD box for just over $20 on Amazon - stimulated for this purchase by a great Fanfare Review HERE (http://www.fanfaremag.com/content/view/28977/10238/) -  :)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51f6ymczHdL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Just read up on that one in my favorite guidebook. They also think highly of it.
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: Daverz on March 03, 2009, 07:30:38 PM
(http://img.hmv.co.jp/image/jacket/400/19/3/1/607.jpg)

Excellent recordings of the Winter Dreams and Polish, though I haven't formed an impression of the Little Russian, yet.  Available from hmv.co.jp or arkivmusic.com (as CD-Rs).
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: mc ukrneal on March 04, 2009, 03:09:02 AM
I think 4-6 are just so amazing that the first 3 are overlooked.

Markevitch on Philips is a good option (and generally cheaper than the Dorati). There are several good version though.
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: Cato on March 04, 2009, 03:41:50 AM
Quote from: some guy on March 03, 2009, 06:35:17 PM

Cato, "the impotently fulminating last movement of the Third Symphony." Really?? (I'd love to know what you think of the last movement of the fifth!!)

I think it "pompates" more than it fulminates!   8)   With the Third's Finale, you get the impression that because the main material for the movement was so weak, the composer went straight to all kinds of coda cliches: the 4 previous movements were more interesting.

Speaking of Antal Dorati on Mercury, don't miss his recording of Schoenberg's Five Pieces for Orchestra if it is still out there.
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: ChamberNut on March 04, 2009, 04:02:38 AM
Cato, you are so right!  Tchaikovsky composed only 3 symphonies (# 2, 5 and 6)  ;)

Hello!!!! I love the "Little Russian".  All 3 of these symphonies I've heard live, and they were all unique, incredible experiences.

I thoroughly enjoy the Brilliant Classics set with Muti conducting the Philharmonia Orchestra.  :)
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: Dundonnell on March 04, 2009, 05:00:24 AM
By a remarkable coincidence the April issue of 'The Gramophone' magazine has an article by Andrew Achenbach surveying the recordings of the 'Little Russian'.

His four final choices are Svetlanov(Regis), Pletnev(DGG), Dorati(Mercury) and Simon(Chandos-original version of the work) but he also gives praise to the deleted Abbado(DGG-which is the version I have), Markevitch(Philips), Masur(Warner), Haitink(Philips-deleted) and the charismatic accounts by Mitropoulos(Archipel), Celibidache(Urania) ansd Rostropovich(EMI). Temirkanov on RCA is a wayward performance but offers a fresh view.

Achenbach is not keen on the Karajan(DGG) or the Janssons(Chandos). I have Janssons in No.1 and Karajan in No.3 ;D
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: karlhenning on March 04, 2009, 05:04:13 AM
I've got the Markevich, which I like very well . . . the Mercury Living Presence reissue of Doráti is an undeniable temptation.
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: Dr. Dread on March 04, 2009, 05:09:12 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on March 04, 2009, 05:04:13 AM
. . . the Mercury Living Presence reissue of Doráti is an undeniable temptation.

You can get all six in one package!
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: david johnson on March 04, 2009, 06:04:03 AM
let us not forget ormandy/philly doing #7.
better also count in 'manfred' symphony.

dj
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: George on March 04, 2009, 06:11:10 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on March 04, 2009, 05:04:13 AM
. . . the Mercury Living Presence reissue of Doráti is an undeniable temptation.

Indeed.  :)

Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: Cato on March 04, 2009, 10:23:32 AM
I was given a few years ago the NAXOS complete Tchaikovsky Symphonies, which has Antoni Wit conducting the Third Symphony and Adrian Leaper in the first two.  The orchestra is the Polish Radio and Television Symphony.

I am amazed that this is now out-of-print, with a used copy selling for c. $90.00! 

The set contains the 3 Piano Concerti and several tone-poems (Hamlet, Francesca da Rimini, etc).

The versions of the first 3 symphonies presented in the set are quite fine: not on the same level as e.g. Tilson-Thomas on DGG, but it is NAXOS at a budget price.
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: Que on March 04, 2009, 01:11:57 PM
Quote from: david johnson on March 04, 2009, 06:04:03 AM
let us not forget ormandy/philly doing #7.
better also count in 'manfred' symphony.

dj

Indeed: the Manfred, the Manfred, the Manfred (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,455.0.html), people!! :o :o 8)

I'm perplexed that it takes thirteen posts before it's even mentioned....
I personally rank it right together with the Pathétique as Tchaikovsky's best symphonies. :)

See link for recommendations.

Q
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: greg on March 04, 2009, 02:42:01 PM
Quote
But the emotional content takes you on some marvelous journeys: #1 "Winter Dreams" is my favorite example of this point, and to my ear is the most cogent of the 3

First of all, I like them all, but I might have to say that the first might possibly be my favorite, if I had to choose at the moment. I have no idea why it isn't better known.
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: Cato on March 04, 2009, 04:50:32 PM
Quote from: G Forever on March 04, 2009, 02:42:01 PM
First of all, I like them all, but I might have to say that the First might possibly be my favorite, if I had to choose at the moment. I have no idea why it isn't better known.

It seems to have taken recordings from the stereo era to reveal their existence to the general public: hence the opening quote I used to begin the topic! 

The same could be said for the early Dvorak symphonies, some of which are weaker, however, than even the Tchaikovsky Third.

Que: You are quite right.  I consider the Manfred Symphony the most successful and satisfying of the symphonies!   :o
Title: Stravinsky and Tchaikovsky's Third Symphony
Post by: Cato on March 05, 2009, 11:16:03 AM
A distant memory has returned: was not Igor Stravinsky instrumental in resurrecting the Third Symphony of Tchaikovsky?

I can find nothing now on the Internet about this, but I recall that he conducted the work perhaps in the 1950's or earlier: my memory comes from reading a remark decades ago that the work is mistitled ("Polish"), and the puckish claim was that an echt Romanoff Russian like Stravinsky would not have aided anything truly Polish!   :D
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: Herman on March 05, 2009, 12:26:41 PM
Balanchine used the Third Symphony for his Diamonds ballet, but I doubt he needed Stravinsky for this.
Title: Re: Stravinsky and Tchaikovsky's Third Symphony
Post by: Drasko on March 05, 2009, 01:20:31 PM
Quote from: Cato on March 05, 2009, 11:16:03 AM
A distant memory has returned: was not Igor Stravinsky instrumental in resurrecting the Third Symphony of Tchaikovsky?

I can find nothing now on the Internet about this, but I recall that he conducted the work perhaps in the 1950's or earlier: my memory comes from reading a remark decades ago that the work is mistitled ("Polish"), and the puckish claim was that an echt Romanoff Russian like Stravinsky would not have aided anything truly Polish!   :D

My distant memory is somewhat different. Seem to recall reading that one of the very few non-Stravinsky pieces Stravinsky the Conductor had in his repertoire was not Tchaikovsky third but second symphony "Little Russian". Basically he'd either conduct all Stravinsky concert or Glinka's Ruslan and Ludmila overture, his own piece and Tchaikovsky 2nd. No third option. Haven't a slightest idea where I read this, or is it true, but there is a recording (at least one) of him conducting "Little Russian".

http://www.pristineclassical.com/LargeWorks/Orchestral/PASC101.php
there is lengthy sample
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: Cato on March 05, 2009, 04:50:38 PM
After some digging I have found the reference from Google Books:

Igor Stravinsky: His Personality, Works, and Views by Mikhail Druskin.

http://books.google.com/books?id=nvI8AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA32&lpg=PA32&dq=stravinsky+criticism+tchaikovsky+third+symphony&source=bl&ots=ROBcUGpXw7&sig=B3NTf6SAEDhVZGxrrkV_zuKD6ss&hl=en&ei=33-wSaHgDonKtQPAvdHVAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result

On page 32 Druskin writes that Stravinsky "often conducted performances of Tchaikovsky's Second and Third Symphonies and the Serenade for Strings."


Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: Maciek on August 12, 2009, 05:22:00 PM
I've always found it perplexing (though it isn't all that unprecedented) that Igor Stravinsky, while a descendant of an old Polish noble family (whose recorded history dates back to the 17th century), held such strong anti-Polish sentiments (his sarcastic remarks during his stay in Warsaw in 1965 clash more than a bit with the image of a "polite, courteous and helpful" Stravinsky that can be found in various sources; such as the Wikipedia ;D). The real irony is in the history of the family. In 1771 Igor's great grandfather, the nobleman Stanisław Strawiński took part in a plot to kidnap and possibly kill Stanisław August Poniatowski, the last king of Poland (they did manage to kidnap him but the king talked his kidnapper out of the whole thing). The reason? The king was weak and fell under too much of a Russian influence (he was Catharine the Great's lover). So it is quite an irony that at least some of Stanisław Strawiński's descendants would be russified to such an extent. (There were generally two offshoots: the "Polish" Stravinskys and the russified or "Russian" Stravinskys living in Petersburg in the late 19th/early 20th century. They were not on speaking terms.)

Incidentally, the idea of the abduction came from none other but Kazimierz Pułaski, who had to flee once it was revealed, and ended up in America, where he earned the nickname of "the father of American cavalry".

Sorry for the off-topic aside. Couldn't help myself.
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: ChamberNut on August 12, 2009, 05:29:29 PM
Long live Tchaikovsky's Symphony No. 2, "The Ukrainian"!  I love it.  0:)
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: DavidW on August 12, 2009, 05:33:52 PM
Quote from: ChamberNut on August 12, 2009, 05:29:29 PM
Long live Tchaikovsky's Symphony No. 2, "The Ukrainian"!  I love it.  0:)

And I love the winter daydreams!  What a wonderful melody that will never leave me. 0:)

And if there ever was a diverimento that danced, it is the Polish symphony. :)
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: George on August 12, 2009, 05:48:00 PM
Quote from: DavidW on August 12, 2009, 05:33:52 PM
And I love the winter daydreams!  What a wonderful melody that will never leave me. 0:)

Seoconded. I love the MTT one on DG Originals.  :)
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: DavidW on August 12, 2009, 06:05:16 PM
Quote from: George on August 12, 2009, 05:48:00 PM
Seoconded. I love the MTT one on DG Originals.  :)

Oh I have Bernstein/NYPO, I like his style with Tchaikovsky. :)
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: Wanderer on August 12, 2009, 10:09:53 PM
Quote from: Maciek on August 12, 2009, 05:22:00 PM
I've always found it perplexing (though it isn't all that unprecedented) that Igor Stravinsky, while a descendant of an old Polish noble family (whose recorded history dates back to the 17th century), held such strong anti-Polish sentiments (his sarcastic remarks during his stay in Warsaw in 1965 clash more than a bit with the image of a "polite, courteous and helpful" Stravinsky that can be found in various sources; such as the Wikipedia ;D). The real irony is in the history of the family. In 1771 Igor's great grandfather, the nobleman Stanisław Strawiński took part in a plot to kidnap and possibly kill Stanisław August Poniatowski, the last king of Poland (they did manage to kidnap him but the king talked his kidnapper out of the whole thing). The reason? The king was weak and fell under too much of a Russian influence (he was Catharine the Great's lover). So it is quite an irony that at least some of Stanisław Strawiński's descendants would be russified to such an extent. (There were generally two offshoots: the "Polish" Stravinskys and the russified or "Russian" Stravinskys living in Petersburg in the late 19th/early 20th century. They were not on speaking terms.)

Incidentally, the idea of the abduction came from none other but Kazimierz Pułaski, who had to flee once it was revealed, and ended up in America, where he earned the nickname of "the father of American cavalry".

Sorry for the off-topic aside. Couldn't help myself.

By all means, we need these kind of off-topic asides.  8)

To the original subject, I find the First Symphony the most imaginative and distinguished of the first three; and I just adore its first movement. My favourite rendition is Karajan with the BPO.
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: Florestan on August 13, 2009, 12:01:01 AM
Quote from: Wanderer on August 12, 2009, 10:09:53 PM
I find the First Symphony the most imaginative and distinguished of the first three; and I just adore its first movement. My favourite rendition is Karajan with the BPO.

Seconded on both highlighted accounts. Muti and Philharmonia Orchestra do an excellent job too. As for my favourite part, there's no hesitation: second movement.

Slightly off-topic: for anyone who loves Tchaikovsky's First I strongly recommend Vassily Kalinnikov's two symphonies: magic!

Maciek, very interesting info, thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: The new erato on August 13, 2009, 02:32:01 AM
Quote from: Maciek on August 12, 2009, 05:22:00 PM
I've always found it perplexing (though it isn't all that unprecedented) that Igor Stravinsky, while a descendant of an old Polish noble family (whose recorded history dates back to the 17th century), held such strong anti-Polish sentiments (his sarcastic remarks during his stay in Warsaw in 1965 clash more than a bit with the image of a "polite, courteous and helpful" Stravinsky that can be found in various sources; such as the Wikipedia ;D). The real irony is in the history of the family. In 1771 Igor's great grandfather, the nobleman Stanisław Strawiński took part in a plot to kidnap and possibly kill Stanisław August Poniatowski, the last king of Poland (they did manage to kidnap him but the king talked his kidnapper out of the whole thing). The reason? The king was weak and fell under too much of a Russian influence (he was Catharine the Great's lover). So it is quite an irony that at least some of Stanisław Strawiński's descendants would be russified to such an extent. (There were generally two offshoots: the "Polish" Stravinskys and the russified or "Russian" Stravinskys living in Petersburg in the late 19th/early 20th century. They were not on speaking terms.)

Incidentally, the idea of the abduction came from none other but Kazimierz Pułaski, who had to flee once it was revealed, and ended up in America, where he earned the nickname of "the father of American cavalry".

Sorry for the off-topic aside. Couldn't help myself.
I seem to remember that Sufjan Stevens sings about Kazimierz Pułaski day on his superb Illi-noise album. Now we're really OT.
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: karlhenning on August 13, 2009, 05:39:28 AM
Quote from: Maciek on August 12, 2009, 05:22:00 PM
I've always found it perplexing (though it isn't all that unprecedented) that Igor Stravinsky, while a descendant of an old Polish noble family (whose recorded history dates back to the 17th century), held such strong anti-Polish sentiments (his sarcastic remarks during his stay in Warsaw in 1965 clash more than a bit with the image of a "polite, courteous and helpful" Stravinsky that can be found in various sources; such as the Wikipedia ;D). The real irony is in the history of the family. In 1771 Igor's great grandfather, the nobleman Stanisław Strawiński took part in a plot to kidnap and possibly kill Stanisław August Poniatowski, the last king of Poland (they did manage to kidnap him but the king talked his kidnapper out of the whole thing). The reason? The king was weak and fell under too much of a Russian influence (he was Catharine the Great's lover). So it is quite an irony that at least some of Stanisław Strawiński's descendants would be russified to such an extent. (There were generally two offshoots: the "Polish" Stravinskys and the russified or "Russian" Stravinskys living in Petersburg in the late 19th/early 20th century. They were not on speaking terms.)

Incidentally, the idea of the abduction came from none other but Kazimierz Pułaski, who had to flee once it was revealed, and ended up in America, where he earned the nickname of "the father of American cavalry".

Sorry for the off-topic aside. Couldn't help myself.

Au contraire, most interesting, Maciek!  It can all be such a tangle, eh?
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: Jo498 on June 02, 2017, 10:38:52 AM
Any special recommendations for 1-3 (or one of these 3)?
I have more than enough recordings of 4-6, but only Markevitch for 1-3 (+ a live Silvestri (BBC) 2nd in so-so sound). Which seems unfair... My favorite of these is #1.

Because of the abundance of 4-6 I am considering Dorati (but the sound seems dated and I guess that his approach is fairly similar to the "lean & mean" Markevitch), Karajan or Svetlanov, all of which have two-disc-sets of 1-3.

But I am also tempted by the Ormandy/RCA that has the "7th" (cobbled together from the fragments of the 3rd piano concerto), concertos and other fillers and Muti because his box is also very cheap. So if these are very good in 1-3 this could also be an option...
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: aligreto on June 02, 2017, 11:03:35 AM
Quote from: Jo498 on June 02, 2017, 10:38:52 AM
Any special recommendations for 1-3 (or one of these 3)?
I have more than enough recordings of 4-6, but only Markevitch for 1-3 (+ a live Silvestri (BBC) 2nd in so-so sound). Which seems unfair... My favorite of these is #1.

Because of the abundance of 4-6 I am considering Dorati (but the sound seems dated and I guess that his approach is fairly similar to the "lean & mean" Markevitch), Karajan or Svetlanov, all of which have two-disc-sets of 1-3.

But I am also tempted by the Ormandy/RCA that has the "7th" (cobbled together from the fragments of the 3rd piano concerto), concertos and other fillers and Muti because his box is also very cheap. So if these are very good in 1-3 this could also be an option...

I particularly like the Dorati I must say. No. 1 has wonderful energy. The exuberance and exhilaration of both the music and the performance of No. 2 are simply electrifying. No. 3 concludes with a glorious Finale.

Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: Brian on June 02, 2017, 11:11:36 AM
Dorati definitely. Also, the live LPO/Vladimir Jurowski recording of 1 is my favorite - he draws such extraordinary warm playing from the strings. That's a mighty fine series overall (it's missing 2 and 3; I was at the terrific live recording of 5).
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: vandermolen on June 02, 2017, 11:20:50 AM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on March 03, 2009, 05:39:28 PM
Cato - will also be interested in this thread & recommendations!  :D

Really can't recall 'how many' of PT's symphony performances that I've owned over the years, but most recently purchased an absolute bargain set w/ Rostropovich - 5-CD box for just over $20 on Amazon - stimulated for this purchase by a great Fanfare Review HERE (http://www.fanfaremag.com/content/view/28977/10238/) -  :)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51f6ymczHdL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
I have that box too - it is excellent. I really like 'Winter Daydreams' and have recently discovered symphonies 2 and 3.
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: Daverz on June 02, 2017, 06:02:48 PM
Petrenko's No. 1 is the best in many years.

[asin]B01EB2Z5N4[/asin]
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: Cato on June 02, 2017, 06:37:48 PM
On another website, a reviewer claimed that the Third Symphony is the least popular of the six, but that the Leonard Bernstein recording makes the best case for this "problematic" work.

Available only used...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0000027O0/ref=tmm_other_meta_binding_new_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=new&qid=1496457139&sr=1-1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0000027O0/ref=tmm_other_meta_binding_new_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=new&qid=1496457139&sr=1-1)
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: kishnevi on June 02, 2017, 07:07:58 PM
I will nominate a dark horse
[asin]B00005QKFQ[/asin]
I don't remember anything wrong with Markevitch, Karajan*, or Abbado, who hasn't been mentioned
[asin]B004H6P2ME[/asin]

*If you go for Herbie, this seems to be the only set which does not split the Fifth between two CDs.
[asin]B00004SA8B[/asin]
ETA I just remembered that the Abravanel set splits the First across two CDs.
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: Crudblud on June 02, 2017, 09:30:05 PM
The second symphony is actually my favourite of Tchaikovsky's. I think I've heard it from Bernstein and Svetlanov, but I should perhaps return to the symphonies and explore soon, I'll try the Rostropovich set posted earlier in this thread.
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: Autumn Leaves on June 02, 2017, 09:45:59 PM
I particularly like Symphony #3, "Polish" - The Andante Elegiaco movement features one of PIT's best big tunes IMO.
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: Cato on June 03, 2017, 04:11:29 AM
Quote from: Conor71 on June 02, 2017, 09:45:59 PM
I particularly like Symphony #3, "Polish" - The Andante Elegiaco movement features one of PIT's best big tunes IMO.

True!  The Third Symphony, not unlike the Sibelius Third Symphony, is unjustly ignored.
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: flyingdutchman on June 03, 2017, 04:40:12 PM
My favorites in order:

1, Manfred, 5, 6, 2, 4, 3
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: Drasko on June 03, 2017, 04:54:42 PM
Quote from: Jo498 on June 02, 2017, 10:38:52 AM
Any special recommendations for 1-3 (or one of these 3)?
I have more than enough recordings of 4-6, but only Markevitch for 1-3 (+ a live Silvestri (BBC) 2nd in so-so sound). Which seems unfair... My favorite of these is #1.

Because of the abundance of 4-6 I am considering Dorati (but the sound seems dated and I guess that his approach is fairly similar to the "lean & mean" Markevitch), Karajan or Svetlanov, all of which have two-disc-sets of 1-3.

My favorite 1st is Konstantin Ivanov but don't think it was ever available on CD.
https://www.discogs.com/Tchaikovsky-USSR-State-Symphony-Orchestra-Konstantin-Ivanov-Symphony-No-1-In-G-Minor-Winter-Dreams/release/8056935

For a left-field choice Golovanov is worth hearing, not as first or only choice though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnPnArHO8oc
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61jfteGMyiL.jpg)or(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51dFW5BXgJL.jpg)

Easier to recommend would be Tilson Thomas with Boston Symphony, a fine pereformance.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51b3zcgY1SL.jpg)

As for 1-3 set I'd recommend Svetlanov, I think his rhapsodic romantic approach is good alternative to the more classicist Markevitch that you already have. I tend to prefer Svetlanov's earlier 60s set, but the 90s one is probably objectively better played and recorded. He has also a live 3rd on BBC Legends which is excellent. 
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on June 03, 2017, 05:25:40 PM
Two of my preferred Sym 1-3 recordings are Masur/Leipzig Gewandhaus and Wit/Polish NRSO. They are both more edgy than your typical German or British orchestra and the sound is a lot leaner.

I was never a fan of Abbado's Tchaikovsky.
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: flyingdutchman on June 03, 2017, 05:51:04 PM
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on June 03, 2017, 05:25:40 PM
Two of my preferred Sym 1-3 recordings are Masur/Leipzig Gewandhaus and Wit/Polish NRSO. They are both more edgy than your typical German or British orchestra and the sound is a lot leaner.

I was never a fan of Abbado's Tchaikovsky.

Wow.  I would never recommend Masur in the repertoire.  Dull is the only word that comes to mind.  I had it and couldn't get rid of it fast enough.
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on June 03, 2017, 06:04:36 PM
Quote from: flyingdutchman on June 03, 2017, 05:51:04 PM
Wow.  I would never recommend Masur in the repertoire.  Dull is the only word that comes to mind.  I had it and couldn't get rid of it fast enough.
I think it is different than the others and deserve a hearing as i am a big fan of the LGO.

If exciting is what you are after then go with Dorati on Mercury.
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: flyingdutchman on June 04, 2017, 09:53:56 AM
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on June 03, 2017, 06:04:36 PM
I think it is different than the others and deserve a hearing as i am a big fan of the LGO.

If exciting is what you are after then go with Dorati on Mercury.

Yes, have that set (and too many others to count).  Love my Tchaikovsky.
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: arpeggio on June 04, 2017, 12:06:34 PM
Faulty impressions reminded me of an incident with our community band.  We play at the annual 4th of July celebration. Maybe ten, fifteen years ago the 4th of July committee was complaining that the music we were playing was too pop oriented and they wanted more patriotic music like STARS AND STRIPES FOREVER and the 1812 OVERTURE (?) Many of the committee did not know the background of 1812. They had no idea that it was composed by a gay Russian in 1880 to commemorate the Russian defeat of Napoleon when he invaded Russia. According to a friend who attended the meeting, they back down when our director made the point that if we recognized their criteria, we would have to eliminate 1812 from the program.

This incident was a bitter experience with our director.  We used to play the entire 1812.  Since then we have found other patriot type works like Jerry Bilik's American Civil War Fantasy and just the finale of 1812 to proceed the fireworks.
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on June 04, 2017, 02:21:14 PM
Quote from: flyingdutchman on June 04, 2017, 09:53:56 AM
Yes, have that set (and too many others to count).  Love my Tchaikovsky.
What do you think of Marriner?
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: flyingdutchman on June 04, 2017, 09:13:28 PM
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on June 04, 2017, 02:21:14 PM
What do you think of Marriner?

Now that is one set I do not have. 
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: Brian on June 05, 2017, 06:48:41 AM
Quote from: arpeggio on June 04, 2017, 12:06:34 PM
Faulty impressions reminded me of an incident with our community band.  We play at the annual 4th of July celebration. Maybe ten, fifteen years ago the 4th of July committee was complaining that the music we were playing was too pop oriented and they wanted more patriotic music like STARS AND STRIPES FOREVER and the 1812 OVERTURE (?) Many of the committee did not know the background of 1812. They had no idea that it was composed by a gay Russian in 1880 to commemorate the Russian defeat of Napoleon when he invaded Russia. According to a friend who attended the meeting, they back down when our director made the point that if we recognized their criteria, we would have to eliminate 1812 from the program.

This incident was a bitter experience with our director.  We used to play the entire 1812.  Since then we have found other patriot type works like Jerry Bilik's American Civil War Fantasy and just the finale of 1812 to proceed the fireworks.
I'm afraid I can top this...I once heard the 1812 Overture loudly blasting in the streets of Paris...on Bastille Day...
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: Uhor on June 05, 2017, 10:45:12 AM
I wonder what they teach in history class these days.
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: Todd on June 06, 2017, 06:40:47 PM
For those with Amazon Prime, Antoni Wit's complete cycle of symphonies and piano concertos is available for streaming.  I've added it to my queue, but I doubt I can listen to it this year.
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on June 06, 2017, 11:04:19 PM
Quote from: Crudblud on June 02, 2017, 09:30:05 PM
The second symphony is actually my favourite of Tchaikovsky's. I think I've heard it from Bernstein and Svetlanov, but I should perhaps return to the symphonies and explore soon, I'll try the Rostropovich set posted earlier in this thread.

The 2nd is wonderful, one of my favourites along with no. 1. Somehow I think that the first three symphonies not having the hype and the overly romanticised programmatic interpretations of something like his 6th symphony make them a more interesting window into his musical creativity, particularly his earlier efforts with re-working sonata form.
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on June 07, 2017, 03:45:38 AM
Quote from: Todd on June 06, 2017, 06:40:47 PM
For those with Amazon Prime, Antoni Wit's complete cycle of symphonies and piano concertos is available for streaming.  I've added it to my queue, but I doubt I can listen to it this year.
Awhile ago the Wit set was available in cd form for 10 bucks including shipping. Seems to have gone up a little.
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: starrynight on June 19, 2017, 02:00:47 AM
Quote from: Conor71 on June 02, 2017, 09:45:59 PM
I particularly like Symphony #3, "Polish" - The Andante Elegiaco movement features one of PIT's best big tunes IMO.

The 3rd has some great tunes through it, it's almost like an accident of fate that it didn't become famous.
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on June 19, 2017, 04:21:31 AM
Some have the impression that Bruch only wrote one violin concerto.
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: North Star on June 19, 2017, 06:33:39 AM
Quote from: jessop on June 19, 2017, 04:21:31 AM
Some have the impression that Bruch only wrote one violin concerto.
Or, indeed, that Tchaikovsky only wrote one piano concerto.
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: Jo498 on June 19, 2017, 06:47:07 AM
I got a used copy the Muti 1970s cycle almost for free (early 1990s 4-disc-box), so I went for that one.

ASIN: B00002501I

Seems pretty good so far, more lush soundwise than most of what I have but also quite "tight". I'll keep the other recommendations in mind, especially Svetlanov, but as I said above this music has overall only medium priority for me.
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: Jaakko Keskinen on June 19, 2017, 07:06:16 AM
My favorite symphony movement from Tchaikovsky actually is from Symphony no. 1, the Adagio. I was surprised to hear how often it is considered to be monotonic and boring.  ???
Title: Re: "Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."
Post by: Jo498 on June 19, 2017, 07:47:18 AM
I think I used to like #1 more than I do now (or I rated it higher because I could not stand the finales of 4 and 5 anymore, despite liking a lot about their earlier movements). Re-listening to #1 seems somewhat repetitive and too long but it is still the best of the first 3.
My five favorite Tchaikovsky symphony movements would probably be:
6,i
4,i
5,i
6,iv
4,ii or iii or 1,i