Again, this thread has been prompted by my listening of this composer's cello concerto. It is a fantastic work - Highly romantic, approximately contemporaneous with Elgar's cello concerto, sharing in that piece's sense of resignation and nostalgia for an age that has past, but it is a more delicate work perhaps, more interesting harmonically to my ears, every bit as beautiful and very well written for the cello, even if the melodies are not quite as instantly memorable. I know which I'd prefer to hear in the concert hall. Incidentally, I got this CD ages ago, listened to it once and it made absolutely no impression on me. Just saw it on the shelf today and thought I'd give it another try. I'm so glad I did!
There's a nice boxed set of his symphonies which is sorely tempting after this work, but I can't buy everything! Is he consistent enough to warrant furthur exploration?
I should note that the cello sonata on the same CD is also very fine.
Yes both of these works are some of the most beautiful pieces in the cello repertoire - and I know the cello repertoire! How did this not make a huge impression on me the first time. I often dispair at my younger self!
Many rediscovered obscure composers are a disappointment, it becomes clear why they were so readily forgotten. Not so for Atterberg. I have all of the installments in the cpo symphony cycle and thoroughly enjoyed every one of them. The symphonies are full of stirring themes, with vibrant orchestration and extremely rich, sometimes dissonant harmonies. They are not particularly "modern" and if I had to make a comparison I'd say they have something of the texture of early Sibelius (of the second symphony). I recommend them without reservation. (I'm just sorry I ended up with the individual cpo discs rather than the complete set, which would have saved me some money.)
It goes on the list then! 5 CDs for £25 is not at all bad, especially in repertoire this obscure.
There are a lot of Atterberg admirers on this forum, Guido, and his symphonies have frequently featured in the 'What Are You Listening To?' thread. He has also been mentioned quite a lot in the Scandinavian composers thread.
As nut-job says he is a composer of real attraction. Atterberg was one of the last of the Swedish romantic nationalists. His successors-Gosta Nystroem and Hilding Rosenberg-absorbed more of the influences of 20th century developments in music from mainland Europe whereas Atterberg stayed true to a broadly conservative and romantic idiom. The symphonies however are consistently melodic and extremely attractive but do rise above the stuffily conventional works by lesser romantic composers.
The first five symphonies, dating from 1909-22, come from the highpoint of the Swedish romantic tradition, and are each extremely distinguished representatives, more than fit to sit alongside those of, say, Alfven. No. 6 is the famous 'Dollar Symphony' which won the $10,000 first prize in the 1928 Competition organized by the Columbia Gramophone Company. Nos. 7 and 8 come from the 1940s and are both big works, splendidly grand at times(although No.8 is a trifle bombastic I suppose); No.7 reuses material from an opera and was premiered in Germany during World War Two, No.8 uses a lot of Swedish folk material. Symphony No.9, the choral 'Sinfonia Visionaria', was composed in 1955-56 but, on this occasion, I do think that Atterberg's ambitions overstretch his talent and I was disappointed by the work.
Atterberg lived a long time and by his death in 1974 had seen his music completely overtaken by modern developments in music-which caused him some bitterness. He was a very influential figure on the Swedish musical scene and-amazingly, kept up his day job as a departmental head in the Swedish Patent Office until his retirement at the age of 80!
You should not be disappointed by the excellent CPO set-although, to be honest, the only symphony I have from that particular set is No.9. I had acquired the others in an assortment of recordings by Swedish labels.
I think what would've helped Atterberg not be so obscure in the first place is a couple of things-
-Be German instead of Swedish
-Be less melodically concentrated- meaning, stay away from focusing on folk themes
Probably would've helped a little. ;D
That's what he does with his earlier symphonies, but later uses more and more folk material as he goes on. The 1st 3 symphonies are extremely impressive, and there's much to like later, but in my opinion, the rest generally aren't as good as the first 3 (though i do like 7 a lot). Also, 9 is just strange..... i do like it, but at the same time- wtf?
Add me as an Atterberg admirer. The 3rd is a wonderful of tone painting and musical drama.
I do agree that the choral 9th has alluded me but may need to get it out and work through it again.
Quote from: Gay Cuban Communist on March 18, 2009, 12:10:57 PM
Also, 9 is just strange..... i do like it, but at the same time- wtf?
What an eloquent music critic you make Greg! ;D ;D
I have the disc of Atterberg symphonies 3 and 6, and I love 'em both. Did I just get lucky and acquire the best disc of the cycle, or are the other symphonies this good?
BTW, the composers Atterberg most reminds me of are R. Strauss and (a little strange, I admit) Elgar.
Quote from: Spitvalve on March 18, 2009, 10:53:52 PM
I have the disc of Atterberg symphonies 3 and 6, and I love 'em both. Did I just get lucky and acquire the best disc of the cycle, or are the other symphonies this good?
BTW, the composers Atterberg most reminds me of are R. Strauss and (a little strange, I admit) Elgar.
Actually, I am not sure that Atterberg's 6th is as good as some of the earlier symphonies but if you love it then you would certainly take to the others :) The Symphony No.2, No.4 'Sinfonia piccola' and No.5 'Sinfonia funebre' are all lovely works with some delightful ideas.
I would particularly recommend the Sinfonia piccola. Atterberg and his friend, Natanael Berg got fed up with the accusation from the critics that Swedish symphonies were too long-winded and gloomy(which is an odd charge really because I have never thought of Alfven or Peterson-Berger as gloomy!). So both composers decided to write a 20 minute symphony with a prominent part for the bass tuba which would dispel that impression.
Atterberg's 4th clocks in at 20 minutes but Berg's 4th is 22 minutes long(for which he was fined 20 Swedish crowns ;D)
Quote from: Guido on March 18, 2009, 02:40:43 PM
What an eloquent music critic you make Greg! ;D ;D
;D ;D
I say that because I don't really know what to think- it's so different from the other symphonies, being 13 movements long, much meaner, and excessively repetitive instead of just plain repetitive. I also think it sounds cool, but if you think about it for a minute, doesn't the music awfully close to something written for a villain in a Disney movie? :-[:-X
Then don't think about it for a minute then ;D
Well, there you go- problem solved. Luke always is handy, isn't he?
Quote from: Dundonnell on March 19, 2009, 05:20:49 AM
Actually, I am not sure that Atterberg's 6th is as good as some of the earlier symphonies but if you love it then you would certainly take to the others :) The Symphony No.2, No.4 'Sinfonia piccola' and No.5 'Sinfonia funebre' are all lovely works with some delightful ideas.
I found on YouTube some movements from Atterberg's symphonies, and listened to the slow mvts. of symphonies 2 & 5. Good stuff, if a bit bombastic (I thought of Strauss again, and Mahler too). Atterberg is another of those composers who could become a crowd-pleaser if only orchestras would bother to play his music!
I love Atterbergs Syms #3, 5,6,7,8 .. in that order. Yeah, #3 is my favourite. Great and tragic Lento in #5. Only the acoustics on the CPO release are very sharp.
Quote from: Wurstwasser on March 20, 2009, 03:58:13 AM
I love Atterbergs Syms #3, 5,6,7,8 .. in that order. Yeah, #3 is my favourite. Great and tragic Lento in #5. Only the acoustics on the CPO release are very sharp.
Oh yeah! My favorite is also the 3rd! ;D
In this order: 3, 7, 2, 1, 8, 9, 4, 6, 5...
I would say go for the boxed set. The symphonies are consistently good and the slow movement of Symphony No 8 is hauntingly beautiful. No 3 the 'West Coast Pictures' is another favourite. I have a few problems with Atterberg being very popular in Nazi Germany (Symphony No 7 being premiered in Frankfurt am Main in 1943) but that is my own stuff.
The boxed set should be arriving any day!
Quote from: Guido on March 21, 2009, 04:38:45 AM
The boxed set should be arriving any day!
You wont be disappointed. It's a great, inexpensive, way to discover them. Then you can go on to the Petterson-Berger symphonies box set ;D
Quote from: vandermolen on March 21, 2009, 11:30:24 AM
You wont be disappointed. It's a great, inexpensive, way to discover them. Then you can go on to the Petterson-Berger symphonies box set ;D
Nah.....Holmboe first ;D
Speaking of Atterberg, how do the symphony recordings on Sterling stack up compared to the CPO set (which I have and love)?
Quote from: Grazioso on March 24, 2009, 04:42:53 AM
Speaking of Atterberg, how do the symphony recordings on Sterling stack up compared to the CPO set (which I have and love)?
I have the Sterling version of No 7 and 8, which I marginally prefer to the CPO CD - but there is little in it. The slow movement of No 8 (which I love) is marginally slower on Sterling.
Quote from: vandermolen on March 24, 2009, 06:21:49 AM
I have the Sterling version of No 7 and 8, which I marginally prefer to the CPO CD - but there is little in it. The slow movement of No 8 (which I love) is marginally slower on Sterling.
That is interesting! It is the Sterling version which is in my collection. The critics preferred the CPO but I can now stick happily with the Sterling :)
Not that the CPO performances are ever less than very good, - but in every case (save one) where alternative recordings exist I prefer them. The one exception is No.6 where I find CPO preferable to BIS.
In No.3 I never listen to CPO but only Caprice/Ehrling, and the Discofil CD with No.2 is essential especially for the coupling (the wonderful Suite No.3).
Quote from: J on March 24, 2009, 11:45:48 AM
Not that the CPO performances are ever less than very good, - but in every case (save one) where alternative recordings exist I prefer them. The one exception is No.6 where I find CPO preferable to BIS.
In No.3 I never listen to CPO but only Caprice/Ehrling, and the Discofil CD with No.2 is essential especially for the coupling (the wonderful Suite No.3).
Good to hear all this :)
I have the Sterling cd of No. 1(Swedish Radio SO/Stig Westerberg) and No.4(Norrkoping SO/Sten Frykberg), the Discofil cd of No.2(Swedish Radio SO/Westerberg) coupled with the Suite No.3, the Caprice cd of No.3(Stockholm Philharmonic/Sixten Ehrling) coupled with the Horn Concerto, the Musica Sveciae cd of No.5(Stockholm Philharmonic/Westerberg) coupled with music by Kallstenius and Oskar Lindberg, the BIS cd of No.6(Norrkoping Symphony Orchestra/Jun'ichi Hirokami) coupled with A Varmland Rhapsody and Ballad Without Words, the Sterling cd of Nos. 7 and 8(Malmo Symphony Orchestra/Michail Jurowski) and the CPO cd of No.9(North German Radio Philharmonic/Ari Rasilainen).
Looks as though I haven't done badly...except for No.6 perhaps :)
For my comparison of Atterberg's prize-winning Symphony No.6 with the much better 'Passacaglia' by the Norwegian Ludvig Irgens Jensen-see the Scandinavian Composers' thread :)
I've been dipping into Atterberg's symphonic cycle lately. I can't seem to stop listening to 5 -- a nice "Funereal" symphony. Agreed about the slow movement in that- it's achingly beautiful. The pairing of 3 and 6 is nice, and I'm also liking 7+8. (I agree with Jeffrey-- the slow movement in 8 is another winner, but 5 seems to be beating me ). 9 hasn't clicked with me either. Maybe I'd do better without teh solo voices.
(I've also been digging on Holmboe's Sinfonia Sacra - #4- which has a chorus, but it doesn't distract me from the music like the solo voices in the Atterberg 9. But then again, I just may be a Phillistine.)
Quote from: jowcol on May 20, 2009, 11:43:39 AM
I've been dipping into Atterberg's symphonic cycle lately. I can't seem to stop listening to 5 -- a nice "Funereal" symphony. Agreed about the slow movement in that- it's achingly beautiful. The pairing of 3 and 6 is nice, and I'm also liking 7+8. (I agree with Jeffrey-- the slow movement in 8 is another winner, but 5 seems to be beating me ). 9 hasn't clicked with me either. Maybe I'd do better without teh solo voices.
(I've also been digging on Holmboe's Sinfonia Sacra - #4- which has a chorus, but it doesn't distract me from the music like the solo voices in the Atterberg 9. But then again, I just may be a Phillistine.)
Must listen to Atterberg No 5. Holmboe's 4th is a much more rewarding work (great opening) than Atterberg's 9th in my opinion.
Atterberg 5-2 (Lento) is teh rox. ;D
Which version of the piano concerto is preferable: the Derwinger/Rasilainen (CPO) or the Smith/Andersson (Sterling - coupled with the violin concerto)?
I only have the cpo Piano conc., cannot compare... and I realize, I've just listened twice to it. I'll have to repeat listening...
Currently I'm stuck with the 4th symphony, especially the wonderful 2nd movement, Andante. It's somewhat glorious and to me the perfect welcoming of spring.
Just listened to the cello sonata and cello concerto again - these are just superb - absolutely ravishing and thrillingly inventive, if always quite traditional - steadfastly tonal but beautifully nuanced - not unlike Schoeck in this way actually - ready to dig into my complete symphonies boxed set now!
I'd also be interested to hear about which Atterberg piano concerto is better - one is coupled with the violin concerto
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Atterberg-Piano-Concerto-Violin/dp/B00003E49E/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1268698322&sr=8-2
which I'd also like to hear so I'm inclined towards that one...
Wow. Imagine. Kurt Atterberg, DORMANT on GMG for almost three years. Shocking. :'(
Meanwhile, I recently bought the new Jarvi / GSO release of Kurt Atterbergs symphonies 4, 6 , Värmlands Rhapsody and Suite No. 3 in Flac format from Chandos. I listened to it twice today, and my verdict is this:
If you want Atterberg to be exciting, bright and revelatory, Rasilainen is the must have from CPO. 8) If you want to entertain some friends with brandy and cigars and talk generally but quickly about a broad sweep of things, buy Jarvi from Chandos on March 1st. :o
This kind of thing.
I am going to get hold of other Atterberg recordings now, as it is unfair of me to hold up two when there are others just as worthy and I have become ravenous to hear as much more Atterberg as I can. ::)
I'm quite content with my Atterberg symphony set on CPO. I figured Jarvi wouldn't deliver the goods. :-\
Quote from: Wanderer on August 30, 2009, 01:16:58 AM
Which version of the piano concerto is preferable: the Derwinger/Rasilainen (CPO) or the Smith/Andersson (Sterling - coupled with the violin concerto)?
I can offer an opinion on both. The Derwinger is played note perfect and with confidence, but is pretty boring and sounds extremely uptight. Some tempi are also taken a bit too slow, I think. It just sounds extremely taut and cautious. The Smith is played much more romantically and with more virtuosity, but there are some notes missed on occasion. Still, I would go with the Smith, just because he interprets the work in a way that is more interesting.
I am surprised not many people have mentioned the piano concerto. I think this is one of the best overlooked late romantic piano concertos and has some great melodies, harmonies, and piano writing in it. It needs a new recording quite badly, for the two currently in existence have some issues. If the Derwinger were not already on CPO, I'd want a solid pianist like Michael Korstick to record it.
Quote from: lescamil on February 05, 2013, 01:52:24 PM
I can offer an opinion on both. The Derwinger is played note perfect and with confidence, but is pretty boring and sounds extremely uptight. Some tempi are also taken a bit too slow, I think. It just sounds extremely taut and cautious. The Smith is played much more romantically and with more virtuosity, but there are some notes missed on occasion. Still, I would go with the Smith, just because he interprets the work in a way that is more interesting.
I am surprised not many people have mentioned the piano concerto. I think this is one of the best overlooked late romantic piano concertos and has some great melodies, harmonies, and piano writing in it. It needs a new recording quite badly, for the two currently in existence have some issues. If the Derwinger were not already on CPO, I'd want a solid pianist like Michael Korstick to record it.
I wouldn't be too surprised if Louis Lortie shows up playing the piano concerto on the new Chandos/Jarvi series, but that is a mere guess. Thanks for those reviews, have not yet heard this work.
A new photo has come to light of Kurt Atterberg and Ture Ransgstrom sitting together.
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,304.msg695363.html#msg695363 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,304.msg695363.html#msg695363)
Hey John, is Atterberg your number one composer or is Hans Rott?
Quote from: Mirror Image on February 06, 2013, 08:55:57 PM
Hey John, is Atterberg your number one composer or is Hans Rott?
Bruckner is. :laugh:
Hans Rott wrote the Symphony that had the biggest effect on me.
Atterberg is one of my favourite composers, because his music is so photogenically and cinematically
entertaining.
Rangstrom too. And Berg. I love all the Swedish stuff so much. There is no logic for it. I need help. :P
(http://stuffpoint.com/flags/image/8024-flags-sweden-flag.jpg)
Quote from: Scots John on February 06, 2013, 09:25:15 PM
Bruckner is. :laugh:
Hans Rott wrote the Symphony that had the biggest effect on me.
Atterberg is one of my favourite composers, because his music is so photogenically and cinematically entertaining.
Rangstrom too. And Berg. I love all the Swedish stuff so much. There is no logic for it. I need help. :P
(http://stuffpoint.com/flags/image/8024-flags-sweden-flag.jpg)
But Bruckner is the composer you put above all others, right?
Yes.
Quote from: Scots John on February 06, 2013, 09:33:15 PM
Yes.
This is good to know, John. Now I know who your absolute favorite composer is. No matter how excited you get about this or that composer, Bruckner is your numero uno. I feel the same way about Delius. Surprise, surprise...::) :laugh:
Quote from: Mirror Image on February 06, 2013, 09:43:40 PM
...No matter how excited you get about this or that composer, Bruckner is your numero uno. I feel the same way about Delius. Surprise, surprise...::) :laugh:
That is 100% correct. Bruckner is my Dad, even though his First Symphony is a bit wonky. :P
To become a Dad in the first place, you have to start with some wonky.
Quote from: Scots John on February 06, 2013, 09:54:31 PM
That is 100% correct. Bruckner is my Dad, even though his First Symphony is a bit wonky. :P
:P
Listening today to symphonies 5,7 and 8 - all good. The discovery for me is Symphony No 5 with its hauntingly doom-laden slow movement, which I loved. The eloquent slow movement of No 8 is wonderful.
>:(
On Kurt Atterberg, from the Oxford Grove Music Encyclopedia:
"...His nine orchestral suites are colorful and often folkloristic; his nine numbered symphonies are more serious, though not showing Atterberg to best advantage as a melodist. ~ James Reel, Rovi"
I thought Grove could be trusted to be accurate. "...not showing Atterberg to best advantage as a melodist..."
That is the most wrong and absurd thing that could be said about Atterberg. It is because of his turn for melody that I rate him so highly. James Reel needs his ears cut off, because they are clearly clouding his judgement - if he is capable of such a thing. >:( I could not believe what I was reading when I came across that, and am unlikely to take anything Oxford Grove says seriousy again. >:(
Quote from: Scots John on March 10, 2013, 10:39:10 AMThat is the most wrong and absurd thing that could be said about Atterberg. It is because of his turn for melody that I rate him so highly. James Reel needs his ears cut off, because they are clearly clouding his judgement - if he is capable of such a thing. >:( I could not believe what I was reading when I came across that, and am unlikely to take anything Oxford Grove says seriousy again. >:(
I've noticed that AMG / ROVI reviews, on occasion, have occasionally produced unjustifiably hostile reviews with lesser known tuneful post-Romantic composers. (So you occasionally get strange scathing reviews of tuneful lesser known items from, say, Cyril Scott or Arnold Bax, within their database.) Sometimes there is a general classical critic trend to overly sniffs at gushy tuneful romantic idioms of the past, as if being gushy and tuneful were mortal sins. Lesser known classical or baroque era composers don't get as much of the sharp tongue in AMG / ROVI, for whatever reason.
It's true that tunefulness, along with orchestration, is probably the most attractive element of Atterberg's works, but since I don't trust their reviews very much for all but the top tier of the early 1900s era, I paid little attention to this bizarre statement.
Quote from: soundwave106 on March 10, 2013, 06:42:57 PM
I've noticed that AMG / ROVI reviews, on occasion, have occasionally produced unjustifiably hostile reviews with lesser known tuneful post-Romantic composers. (So you occasionally get strange scathing reviews of tuneful lesser known items from, say, Cyril Scott or Arnold Bax, within their database.) Sometimes there is a general classical critic trend to overly sniffs at gushy tuneful romantic idioms of the past, as if being gushy and tuneful were mortal sins. Lesser known classical or baroque era composers don't get as much of the sharp tongue in AMG / ROVI, for whatever reason.
It's true that tunefulness, along with orchestration, is probably the most attractive element of Atterberg's works, but since I don't trust their reviews very much for all but the top tier of the early 1900s era, I paid little attention to this bizarre statement.
Thanks for that
Soundwave, it is great when someone knows a wee bit more about things which in turn helps galvanise what I already think.
Welcome to GMG by the way, hope you have a long and prosperous
voyage stay with this Forum.
Quote from: Scots John on March 10, 2013, 10:39:10 AM
>:(
On Kurt Atterberg, from the Oxford Grove Music Encyclopedia:
"...His nine orchestral suites are colorful and often folkloristic; his nine numbered symphonies are more serious, though not showing Atterberg to best advantage as a melodist. ~ James Reel, Rovi"
I thought Grove could be trusted to be accurate. "...not showing Atterberg to best advantage as a melodist..."
That is the most wrong and absurd thing that could be said about Atterberg. It is because of his turn for melody that I rate him so highly. James Reel needs his ears cut off, because they are clearly clouding his judgement - if he is capable of such a thing. >:( I could not believe what I was reading when I came across that, and am unlikely to take anything Oxford Grove says seriousy again. >:(
Grove can be trusted, but like everything else, nothing can be perfect. Some articles on Grove are better than others, and some are worse. It is also a judgement thing to a degree, who they get to write the article on a certain topic/composer can judge it for himself.
Though, I did not read that he said that Atterberg was a bad as a melodist, but rather, the genre of the symphony did not allow him to use his talent to his fullest potential.
(Was that from their online resource, or a text?)
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 11, 2013, 08:00:45 AM
I wouldn't worry a whole lot about that write-up, John, it's just one man's opinion. Trust me, as much hatred some have for all things Delius, I understand your sentiment, but those that don't get the composer I simply tell them it's their loss. Delius has a ton of recordings to his credit, and while this may not mean a whole lot, it does mean that his music still means something to someone or else it wouldn't continue to get performed. My suggestion thumb your nose up at the fool and walk away.
I don't think what the guy said (and if he's in grove, he's certainly no fool), was all that negative...He wasn't saying Atterberg was a poor melodist, but the symphony wasn't the best genre to show his talents as a melodist.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 11, 2013, 08:16:21 AM
Everyone is a critic. You, me, John, we all are, but, at the end of the day, we still have our favorite composers regardless of what people say.
Ironically, Atterberg also spent most of his career writing music criticism, as I recall.
I think there are cases in the symphonies where Atterberg really "lets go" and composes extraordinary melodies - the slow movement to the Eighth, but above all the finale of the Third. There are also places where he takes pretty good tunes and makes them more serious, even savage.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 11, 2013, 08:10:00 AM
Doesn't matter if was or wasn't negative to either of us, it was negative to John and I simply told him to ignore the fool.
Again, you can't assume he's a fool because he has a differing opinion that you. It is wise to question an assumption or a claim by someone, but it is foolish just to suggest to him to blindly ignore him. It serves no purpose rather than ignoring any differing opinions that if challenged might make you enjoy the music better or understand it better. It may be viewed as "negative" to John, but it is not a good solution to just ignore the criticism/a resource.
In my view, it is a valid criticism of Atterberg's Symphonies. Don't get me wrong, he writes some beautiful melodies in all of his symphonies (for me, I love the 5th in D minor), but a symphony is more than having beautiful melodies. Where he was inconsistent on was the transitions between the melodies, while may not be as important as memorable themes, is still important to the structure of the symphony. This is where I think his gifts of melody isn't used to the best advantage in the symphony.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 11, 2013, 08:16:21 AM
Everyone is a critic. You, me, John, we all are, but, at the end of the day, we still have our favorite composers regardless of what people say.
Irrelevant "fact". We all have our favorite composers, our favorite pieces, but if we close our ears to any criticism (even as benign as this one) we aren't enjoying the music as much as we could. There is no purpose in only hearing the good while ignoring the criticism.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 11, 2013, 11:11:19 AM
All of this is just your opinion, Paul. When a composer I enjoy is being maligned for something I disagree with, I do ignore it and usually just laugh. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. I'm certainly entitled to call the guy a fool as much as I want and when I want. It sounds like to me you're putting this Oxford Grove Music Encyclopedia up on some kind of pedestal. It's not like the critique about Atterberg was written by someone who actually knew him, but, rather, it's written by an everyday joe like you and me.
If you're talking about wikipedia, then sure, you can dismiss him/her as "an everyday joe". Articles on Grove/oxford are generally written by people with training in the field, so yes, I do place more weight on their opinions than others. That is not to say that Oxford is perfect, but it's foolish to dismiss a writer as a "fool" because you disagree with a criticism. The writer may or may not be a fool, but you cannot judge him to be a fool for this criticism.
I'm not defending him, as I don't really know who he is and I checked the oxford online and that statement wasn't even there and with different writers.
:o
Oh dear. I found that quotation at Answers dot com, and it was referenced as coming from the Oxford Grove Music Encyclopedia. It wasn't the answer I was looking for. :P
QuotePaul: The writer may or may not be a fool, but you cannot judge him to be a fool for this criticism.
Unfortunately, I am doing just that, I judge him to have made a foolish assessment of Atterbergs symphonies. However, I accept that I may have some shortcomings in my interpretation of the quote because as you say (Paul)...
QuoteHe wasn't saying Atterberg was a poor melodist, but the symphony wasn't the best genre to show his talents as a melodist.
The quote as I found it was left hanging on a negative point, which infuriated me, >:( but absoloutely I see your point with your above statement. :)
QuoteIn my view, it is a valid criticism of Atterberg's Symphonies. Don't get me wrong, he writes some beautiful melodies in all of his symphonies (for me, I love the 5th in D minor), but a symphony is more than having beautiful melodies. Where he was inconsistent on was the transitions between the melodies, while may not be as important as memorable themes, is still important to the structure of the symphony.
That is an entirely different argument from " the symphony wasn't the best genre to show his talents as a melodist." Thankfully, I am interested in how the music affects me, and not it's possible structural deficiencies. This is the case with
any music I listen to. I know for example that Hans Rotts only symphony can be said to be somewhat less than we might expect from a full blown symphonist because it is found to be 'not quite hitting the mark'. But to me it is music that affects me greatly, regardless of where it may fall for the better learned in music. Another example, something which I know a bit more about, Screenplays. Ten minuites into a modern Hollywood film of 90-120 mins, I can usually tell what will happen in the seventeenth minuite, what will happen in about half an hour or so, etc...this is because I know the 'structure' the majority of these things follow. Unfortunately, when I was learning the craft of screenwriting, it completely spoiled my enjoyment of many movies because I could see what was coming, and consequently many perfectly good movies fell victim to my criticism of their structural deficiencies, and I forgot that actually, there was a very good
story behind them. This is why I approach music by listening for the
music and not the
structure, sonata forms, etc...sure I know standard musical structures, symphonies, movements, etc, but not to great extent. If I could be as loosley ignorant about the structure of films, their lengths, their plot points, their turnarounds, etc, etc, I would probably enjoy them again as much as I do music.
I guess what I am saying Paul is I'm happy to be blissfully unaware of the problems which properly trained and insightful musicians like yourself can see are glaring! :(
QuoteMirror Image: There's so much negativity surrounding classical music as whether or not this or that person didn't like the music or whatever, I think energy is better spent talking about the good in music rather than the negative.
Right on! ;D
The quote you found was from "Allmusicguide", not oxford/grove, btw.
QuoteUnfortunately, I am doing just that, I judge him to have made a foolish assessment of Atterbergs symphonies. However, I accept that I may have some shortcomings in my interpretation of the quote because as you say (Paul)...
Might sound contradictory, but that is somewhat different than just calling him a fool. It shows that you thought about it to some degree.
QuoteI guess what I am saying Paul is I'm happy to be blissfully unaware of the problems which properly trained and insightful musicians like yourself can see are glaring! :(
Sometimes ignorance is bliss :P
Unlike Grove, I think you can dismiss "All music guide" relatively easily. The reason I value the articles in Grove over the random people is that they provide (at least in the good articles) both bibliographies of where their information came from (claim supported by fact) and at times external links. All Music Guide doesn't.
And what you don't get is I never denied everyone has an opinion. I just stated the reasons why I value Grove articles.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 11, 2013, 02:59:27 PM
Getting back to Atterberg and the GOOD IN MUSIC, what does everyone think about his concerti? John, any thoughts?
The violin concerto is a little bit long, but full of catchy tunes and good solos, especially the cadenza. It was the focus of a lot of attention on old GMG when user Manuel posted an unlabeled clip, saying that he'd found it on his hard drive and didn't know what it is. I think I spent about a week listening to every romantic violin concerto on Naxos Music Library before IDing it as Atterberg's.
The cello concerto I've heard a couple times and not returned to; the piano concerto I don't yet know.
Quote from: Brian on March 11, 2013, 03:10:28 PM
The violin concerto is a little bit long, but full of catchy tunes and good solos, especially the cadenza. It was the focus of a lot of attention on old GMG when user Manuel posted an unlabeled clip, saying that he'd found it on his hard drive and didn't know what it is. I think I spent about a week listening to every romantic violin concerto on Naxos Music Library before IDing it as Atterberg's.
The cello concerto I've heard a couple times and not returned to; the piano concerto I don't yet know.
Must have not been too distinctive of a
Violin Concerto. ;)
Quote from: Brian on March 11, 2013, 03:10:28 PM
the piano concerto I don't yet know.
This must be fixed, since the piano concerto is the best of the lot. I've raved about it tons, as you might have seen before. All Atterberg tryer-outers must hear this, in addition to what others have recommended.
Good news for Atterberg fans from Dave Martin @ Chandos Records... ;D
QuoteDear Dave,
When are subsequent releases of Neeme Jarvi's Atterberg cycle going to be released. I'm getting fed up waiting for it! :-(
John Copeland
Response withion 9 hours: QuoteDave Martin
To Me
Nov 26 at 9:03 AM
Dear John
You won't have to wait much longer, Vol 2 will be released in February
Best regards
Dave Martin
Absolutely terrific CD and probably best entry point into Atterberg's music. The Second Symphony is given a much more epic performance and far superior recording to any other version I know and the slow movement of Symphony 8 is my favourite movement in all Atterberg (I bet that once you've heard the tune you won't forget it).
[asin]B00HFEBXHI[/asin]
You don't find the Atterberg No. 2 too rushed? The timings seem extremely fast but does it translate that way on the recording or is not really so noticed? I sort of prefer this music to take its time and breath however based on your comment, will probably pick this recording up.
Quote from: relm1 on February 10, 2014, 08:57:18 AM
You don't find the Atterberg No. 2 too rushed? The timings seem extremely fast but does it translate that way on the recording or is not really so noticed? I sort of prefer this music to take its time and breath however based on your comment, will probably pick this recording up.
No, I really enjoyed the sense of urgency about the performance, which didn't sound rushed to me.
Quote from: relm1 on February 10, 2014, 08:57:18 AM
You don't find the Atterberg No. 2 too rushed? The timings seem extremely fast but does it translate that way on the recording or is not really so noticed? I sort of prefer this music to take its time and breath however based on your comment, will probably pick this recording up.
I am not familiar with Symphony No. 2 (or No. 9; I have never heard the Ninth and have only heard the Second once). That said, I am disturbed and displeased with Jarvi's speed-demon nature so far in this cycle. I actually thought Rasilainen was occasionally too fast - silly me! Jarvi chugged through No. 6 like an express train; at the moment I'm listening to No. 8 and its gorgeous adagio has been trivialized, from one of the great slow movements to a collection of cutesy folk tunes.
In general, Neeme Jarvi is a puzzle to me because he is such an advocate for little-known music - but much of the time a very
poor advocate. In this case, he seems to believe in Atterberg, but to believe in Atterberg as a rather one-dimensional composer.
Great sound and excellent playing, but I'm sad at the prospect that this series could actually lose Atterberg fans rather than add them, by convincing listeners that he was "just a folk composer."
Quote from: Brian on February 11, 2014, 11:24:46 AMI am disturbed and displeased with Jarvi's speed-demon nature so far in this cycle.
Quote from: vandermolen on February 11, 2014, 11:13:49 AM
I really enjoyed the sense of urgency about the performance, which didn't sound rushed to me.
Because I like Järvi's first volume (4 & 6), purchasing the second was a no-brainer. That his tempos are radically different than Rasilainen's in the Second Symphony is, I think, a good thing. I appreciate the opportunity to hear the music played with "a sense of urgency."
Symphony #4 Symphony #6
Rasilainen 5:49 8:11 1:20 5:43 9:08 12:58 9:00
Järvi 5:46 7:10 1:23 5:37 8:52 9:47 8:20
Hirokami 10:00 13:18 8:20
Symphony #2 Symphony #8
Rasilainen 12:51 15:55 12:11 9:03 9:55 5:15 9:18
Järvi 10:06 11:26 9:46 9:00 7:04 5:30 7:56
Sarge
Do I see a second movement running less than 90"?
Quote from: karlhenning on February 12, 2014, 05:02:36 AM
Do I see a second movement running less than 90"?
Yes, the Scherzo of the "Sinfonia piccola" is quite short.
Sarge
Suits the name, of course :) Well, my curiosity is piqued . . . I may just dip my musical toe into the Atterbergsee . . . .
Quote from: karlhenning on February 12, 2014, 05:28:05 AM
Suits the name, of course :) Well, my curiosity is piqued . . . I may just dip my musical toe into the Atterbergsee . . . .
Go for it, Karl. The "piccola" is a good place to start an Atterberg exploration. It's the size of a Haydn symphony and packed full of great things.
Sarge
Quote from: vandermolen on February 09, 2014, 09:28:47 AM
Absolutely terrific CD and probably best entry point into Atterberg's music. The Second Symphony is given a much more epic performance and far superior recording to any other version I know and the slow movement of Symphony 8 is my favourite movement in all Atterberg (I bet that once you've heard the tune you won't forget it).
[asin]B00HFEBXHI[/asin]
Yep, picked this up at the beginning of this month (Feb 2014). Reading the above stuff, I completely agree with Brian who says...
Quote from: Brian on February 11, 2014, 11:24:46 AM
...I am disturbed and displeased with Jarvi's speed-demon nature so far in this cycle....Jarvi chugged through No. 6 like an express train; at the moment I'm listening to No. 8 and its gorgeous adagio has been trivialized, from one of the great slow movements to a collection of cutesy folk tunes.
Great sound and excellent playing, but I'm sad at the prospect that this series could actually lose Atterberg fans rather than add them, by convincing listeners that he was "just a folk composer."
Jarvis interpretations are as fast as hell bearing no craftsmanship of the Atterberg sound. I wouldn't recommend his Atterberg to anyone, especially not an Atterberg newbie. However, it is still Atterberg, it is still the music, and I will complete the Jarvi collection as it is released.
Sarge says about timings:
QuoteSarge: Hirokami... 10:00 13:18 8:20
I do not have this Sarge, you have reminded me, so I have just ordered it and will report back soon.
I broke down and bought the Neeme Jarvi volume 2. I am a picky listener so hopefully this doesn't cross into nitpicks. The orchestral playing is not the highest quality. Some of the articulations are sloppy and sections are not always together as a great orchestra like Gothenburg Symphony is. I have a feeling the recording was rushed. Something like rehearse it once, record it, fix one or two things, move on. I have no evidence on this, but it is just the feeling. In general, I am in agreement with others that the recorded sound is great, performance pretty good, but the unidiomatic urgency misses the important atmosphere that Atterberg's music generates. This music really needs time to breath. Maybe they are just too worried about listeners changing the channels if not giving them excitement every second but its at the cost of evocative restraint and clarity. I actually prefer the Stig Westerberg oldie but that is perhaps because it was my first encounter with the composer and really made an impression on me because it was recorded with the composer's involvement. Even though Stig Westerberg takes about 39 minutes compared to Jarvi's 31 minutes, the Westerberg doesn't drag - it still has a big sense of structure and clarity between sections plus a huge excitement in the climaxes.
I believe No. 8 fairs better but I can't think Jarvi likes this music. Jarvi's Symphony No. 8 is better for me perhaps because the tempos are more appropriate to the material. The brass really sounds great here especially at the end of the first movement...clean and tight. The Adagio is very beautiful and balanced in the solo moments in the middle of that movement.
I see the CPO set still remains unsurpassed. No surprise there.
Response from an email to Chandos about future releases of Atterberg by Jarvi:
Dear Mr Copeland
Thank you for your enquiry. Volume 3 is scheduled for release in June, and Volume 4 in October.
Best regards
Dean Austin
Accountant
Chandos Records Limited
What a strange release schedule. February '13 and February '14 for 1 and 2, and now the above dates for the remaining volumes.... :(
Quote from: Scots John on January 09, 2015, 05:21:15 AM
Response from an email to Chandos about future releases of Atterberg by Jarvi:
Dear Mr Copeland
Thank you for your enquiry. Volume 3 is scheduled for release in June, and Volume 4 in October.
Best regards
Dean Austin
Accountant
Chandos Records Limited
What a strange release schedule. February '13 and February '14 for 1 and 2, and now the above dates for the remaining volumes.... :(
Thanks John. Any idea on the content of the discs?
Quote from: Scots John on January 09, 2015, 05:21:15 AM
Response from an email to Chandos about future releases of Atterberg by Jarvi:
Dear Mr Copeland
Thank you for your enquiry. Volume 3 is scheduled for release in June, and Volume 4 in October.
Best regards
Dean Austin
Accountant
Chandos Records Limited
What a strange release schedule. February '13 and February '14 for 1 and 2, and now the above dates for the remaining volumes.... :(
I hope that the great 'Sinfonia Funebre' (No. 5) is next!
Quote from: vandermolen on January 10, 2015, 01:15:25 PM
I hope that the great 'Sinfonia Funebre' (No. 5) is next!
It is :):
[asin]B00WFMVLIQ[/asin]
I read the other day that Chandos had put their Rufinatscha series "on hold". I decided then & there to buy a copy from the Chandos website to try and help persuade them to continue the series. As if my order is going to make a difference;but you know what they say? Every penny counts! As to whether I'm convinced by Rufinatscha? Well,I've been listening to Bruckner,and...........well,it's pleasant enough and I like intriguing puzzles!! And to me,whether you are convinced or not,these kind of off-the-beaten track releases are what record collecting,and latterly,cd collecting,is all about!
Which leads me to the subject of this thread. The only Atterberg I have ever heard was an off air tape of his celebrated "Dollar" symphony. Well,for a long time it was the most well known one,anyway. At any rate,I checked the box with my order,for Chandos's free monthly sampler cd,and,unsurprisingly, there are excerpts of the new Atterberg release on the cd. Now,having vowed not to buy anymore cd's until my birthday,at the earliest (July) I am wondering whether I should risk all the temptation this could create and play those Atterberg sampler tracks?!! Only yesterday,I finally succumbed to temptation and downloaded the Naxos restoration of the 1955 (I think?) recording of Purcell's The Fairy Queen by Anthony Lewis. I have been curious about this recording for years. It was,as far as I know,the first complete recording,it's considered to be very good for it's era,it has never been released on cd,and I'm partial to those old singers. What could be the harm? And the performance is very enjoyable,indeed (Come on Decca Eloquence,give us a reissue!) Even Peter Pears is pretty good! But what happened? Later on that evening I've ordered cd's of Lewis's recordings of Dido and Aeneas and King Arthur which is coupled on the out of print Decca recording,with The Indian Queen conducted by Mackerras!
If I listen to these Atterberg samples will the postman be knocking on the door with the Cpo boxed set of his complete symphonies?!! ??? :o
Of course,that means the Chandos carrot won't really have worked.....but I'll still have broken my vow on an expensive box set!! ??? :o :( ;D
Solution: wait until Xmas before playing the sampler tracks......and the overall feeling I get from all the posts I have read here and at the AMF is that the Cpo set is still the one to get. i DO wish Chandos would go back to concentrating on unrecorded music,or,at least,music that is only available in substandard recordings. The Rufinatscha symphony seems to lack truly memorable material,but at least it was something different,and it's pleasant enough and an intriguing puzzle (but,maybe one volume is enough? They are doing the same thing with their Raff recordings. I don't mind really;I rather like Raff;but the Tudor cycle is superb. When there is so much fine music out there that hasn't been recorded or is only available in decidedly substandard recordings why duplicate something that is very good? Cpo recently started recording a new cycle of Louis Glass. This cycle was already available on the Dacapo label,which was absolutely b***** awful! I have the first Cpo release in my collection and in terms of playing and the recording quality there is simply no comparison. It sounds like a totally different work. In fact,imho (as they say ;D) Glass's third symphony has been revealed as a later romantic gem. I was playing the cd of it,and the suite with which it was coupled,over and over again....so,in some instances duplication of neglected,or less well known music,is worthwhile. Take Langgaard for example. I like his music;but I really don't need another cycle. Tournemire,yes! The Marco Polo recordings are at best serviceable,and the Auvidis Valois efforts are quite good,but could be allot better. And if they want to record a less than front rank symphony that has already been recorded loads of times;why not a really first rate recording and performance of Rubinstein's "Ocean" symphony. It's well known,some people enjoy it,some don't,Rubinstein's value as a composer has been the subject of umpteen debates on various music forums;yet there isn't one decent recording!! And please....much as I love Bax....no more incomplete remnants found in old socks or dusty archives. Enough is enough!! Classico produced a cd of the sixth with a German orchestra,which might have offered a worthwhile,alternative slant (and it was actually quite good) but that was the end of that!! Otherwise,please no!! And quite frankly,with due respect to the late Vernon Handley,if it was up to me,I would delete the Handley cycle (which is only available as a pricey box set) and reissue the Thomson cycle instead,ASAP!!
Anyway,that's enough ranting for now!! ::) ;D
On a more positive note;you only have to read the posts here by relm1,vandermolen and Scots John,amongst others. The fact that Jarvi's recordings are resulting in all these discussions about Atterberg's music can't be a bad thing.....and at least,unlike me,they've heard the music. See you at Xmas! :-[ ;D
Talking to yourself again I see, cilgwyn. ;) ;D
Yes,worrying,isn't I? Maybe I ought to see Docteur Fabricius?!! :-[ ;D
Quote from: cilgwyn on May 11, 2015, 06:15:06 AM
Yes,worrying,isn't I? Maybe I ought to see Docteur Fabricius?!! :-[ ;D
Hah!
Well, cilgwyn, I really enjoyed that series of posts! And I agree with you, mostly. Chandos is trying to release some money makers (complete Brahms, Chopin, Haydn, Beethoven, AND Schubert piano music right now), but their obscure-music efforts should be places where their artists can turn in the best and most valuable recordings.
Which is a polite way of saying yeah, you should get the CPO Atterberg box. :)
Quote from: cilgwyn on May 11, 2015, 06:15:06 AM
Yes,worrying,isn't I? Maybe I ought to see Docteur Fabricius?!! :-[ ;D
;)
By the way, I'm surprised you don't own the Atterberg symphony set on CPO. What the hell? ??? Run, don't walk, over to your e-retailer of choice and buy it ASAP! Remarkable music.
Quote from: cilgwyn on May 11, 2015, 06:15:06 AM
Yes,worrying,isn't I? Maybe I ought to see Docteur Fabricius?!! :-[ ;D
I always follow your posts here with interest and pleasure.
I suggest that you buy the CD now and stop making such a song and dance about it. 8)
I'll see about putting Atterberg on my Xmas list,possibly birthday (end of July) but I've got to resist for now! :( I've already got some power company hounding me for a gas bill........what gas? Where?! It's news to me!! That said,the trouble with cd collecting (and before that Lp's) is that one thing always leads to another. Look at all these old Decca/Oiseau Lyre Lewis/Mackerras Purcell sets I've bought,now. Wonderful singing from stellar soloists from years gone by (although Pears might bother some people) and excellent performances for their vintage. But how long before the fact that there are more authentic recordings with period instrumentation starts to niggle away at me?!! ??? :( (Maybe,not? I'm not that big a fan of period authenticity anyway. Well,it depends,really? For instance,I prefer those old Davis recordings of Berlioz on Philips to those new Gardiner things,any day!) And I can't help thinking how collecting Tubin led to Vagn Holmboe and Raff and Spohr cds led to Rufinatascha,and now Felix Draeseke,for goodness sake. I thought three Draeseke cds would be enough,but the some bounder described his Piano concerto as "Beethovenian"! And then what about that Koechlin Seven Stars Symphony I dug out last week? The next minute I'm buying Hanssler cds of Le Docteur Fabricius and Le Buisson ardent (I already have the BMG/RCA Jungle Book,thank goodness!) No wonder I've always stayed clear of Myaskovsky.....much as I like his twenty first;which seems to be the most well known.
And who knows? If I buy the Atterberrg Cpo set,I could be ordering Peterson-Berger (I think I've got his name right?) next. Some people think he's good!!
I notice alcoholics have groups they can join,but nothing for cd buying addictions! Why not?!! >:( ;D
Quote from: cilgwyn on May 12, 2015, 03:00:00 AM
I notice alcoholics have groups they can join,but nothing for cd buying addictions! Why not?!! >:( ;D
There's a group dedicated to your addiction right here:
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,15426.msg378935.html#msg378935
Sarge
Thanks,Sarge! :) This might help. And allot better than having to physically stand up in front of a group of people in a room and tell them who you are............("Hi guys,I'm Dave,etc......)
I'm,erm,not called Dave,incidentally! ;D
Quote from: cilgwyn on May 12, 2015, 10:41:25 AM
I'm,erm,not called Dave,incidentally! ;D
Mind if we call you Dave to keep it clear?
My wife has accused me of 'Having an affair' with my CD collection.
;D I understand you're a member of this self help group,too,vandermolen!
Meanwhile,I've celebrated my cast iron willed determination to resist the urge to buy that expensive Cpo Atterberg set by splashing out on a s/h copy of the earlier (fat box) 1990 release of the Karajan Bruckner symphonies box set!
Uh-oh!! :(
Quote from: cilgwyn on May 12, 2015, 12:55:53 PM
;D I understand you're a member of this self help group,too,vandermolen!
Meanwhile,I've celebrated my cast iron willed determination to resist the urge to buy that expensive Cpo Atterberg set by splashing out on a s/h copy of the earlier (fat box) 1990 release of the Karajan Bruckner symphonies box set!
Uh-oh!! :(
A remarkable act of restraint. 8)
I'm about to listen to Neeme Jarvi's new Atterberg 5. It is, incredibly, 26 minutes to Ari Rasilainen's 34.
Quote from: Brian on June 02, 2015, 09:12:17 AM
I'm about to listen to Neeme Jarvi's new Atterberg 5. It is, incredibly, 26 minutes to Ari Rasilainen's 34.
I have been enjoying this new recording very much although it is very fast - it was much the same with Symphony 8 I think.
I have just listened to the Chandos/Jarvi/Atterberg volume 3 (Symphony No. 1 and 5) CD. As any fan of Atterberg's would already know, this is a very different interpretation. It is very well played and recorded but why does Jarvi rush so much? I very much enjoyed the CD but I wonder, is it more attributed to the quality of the writing of Atterberg than this CD? Ultimately, I think it is a worthwhile investment but I wish it was considerably slower (like 20%). These are melodic qualities that tend towards longing, nostalgia, and subdued melancholia. Much like Sibelius, can you imagine a 30 minute version of his symphony no.1? Or 15 minute version of No. 7? Sure, a surge of energy can add a unique perspective but it never feels quite right to the material. It seems as if Jarvi just doesn't like this music very much...he doesn't linger in the underlying pathos the way 1980's Lenny Bernstein might have. I could imagine a late 1980's Lenny to have the Symphony No. 5 at about 38 minutes. Sure that is pure speculation but that is how I hear the music. It is so well structured and melodically indulgent that it needs to breath.
relm1, I agree with you. This Jarvi Vol. 3 is easily the best CD in his series so far - I like it, whereas I hated the first two (http://musicweb-international.com/classrev/2014/Mar14/Atterberg_sys_v12_CHSA5116.htm). But you're right: he seems not to like the music very much.
This is also part of the Neeme Jarvi style: he is very bad at warm romantic emotions or effusions, and good at cool calculated efficiency. If you ever listen to his Saint-Saens album, you'll hear more of the same. As mentioned above, the other Atterberg cycle is indeed about 20% slower all the time. I would love to have heard a Lenny cycle.
There in fact IS a 16 minute version of Sibelius' No. 7. It has been posted here, and it's on my home computer, but I cannot remember who the conductor and orchestra are. (The recording was in mono and from the 40s or 50s.) I do remember liking it. Right now, inspired by your post, I'm listening to a Stokowski performance that's 16:58 - although the sound quality is abjectly awful.
Very much agree with the last two posts here as I have also derived much pleasure from the CD whilst finding the performance of the wonderful Symphony 5 'Funebre' too fast. If my memory serves me correctly (am on holiday away from my CD collection :'() Jarvi did much the same with Raff Symphony 5 'Lenore'.
Quote from: vandermolen on July 24, 2015, 06:06:23 AM
Very much agree with the last two posts here as I have also derived much pleasure from the CD whilst finding the performance of the wonderful Symphony 5 'Funebre' too fast. If my memory serves me correctly (am on holiday away from my CD collection :'() Jarvi did much the same with Raff Symphony 5 'Lenore'.
Agreed. The Jarvi Atterberg is for those who are listening in rush hour traffic and on their third cup of coffee rather than someone in a reflective mode contemplating the mysteries of life.
This is a great recording of No. 5:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008BCCQMO/ref=dm_ws_sp_ps_dp
This is just so freaking gorgeous:
https://youtu.be/4ebIM6pm294?t=340
Quote from: relm1 on July 24, 2015, 07:28:27 AM
Agreed. The Jarvi Atterberg is for those who are listening in rush hour traffic and on their third cup of coffee rather than someone in a reflective mode contemplating the mysteries of life.
This is a great recording of No. 5:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008BCCQMO/ref=dm_ws_sp_ps_dp
This is just so freaking gorgeous:
https://youtu.be/4ebIM6pm294?t=340
Agreed on all fronts. I have that fine Swedish recording of Symphony 5 too - it is my favourite version. The Musicweb review of the Jarvi version compared it with CPO but made no mention of it.
The CPO Atterberg series continues in September! Cello Concerto and French Horn Concerto, with soloists Nikolai Schneider and Johannes-Theodor Wiemes. Ari Rasilainen is back in charge.
Quote from: Brian on August 13, 2015, 12:32:54 PM
The CPO Atterberg series continues in September! Cello Concerto and French Horn Concerto, with soloists Nikolai Schneider and Johannes-Theodor Wiemes. Ari Rasilainen is back in charge.
Thought for sure they released the cello concerto before with Rasilainen in charge, but my mind has made things up again. :)
Will be interested to hear how it compares with Mørk/Jaarvi's version. Though I still need to hear the horn concerto :)
Quote from: Brian on August 13, 2015, 12:32:54 PM
The CPO Atterberg series continues in September! Cello Concerto and French Horn Concerto, with soloists Nikolai Schneider and Johannes-Theodor Wiemes. Ari Rasilainen is back in charge.
Excellent!
Super new release of Atterberg's Third Symphony, the 'West Coast Pictures'. Jarvi has been accused of racing through some earlier releases but not here; in fact the magical opening of the Symphony is played more slowly that the rival CPO and excellent Sixten Ehrling version, investing it with great poetry and slumbering power. The recording is spectacular allowing me to hear so much more detail than in earlier recordings.
[asin]B019SHQCJ8[/asin]
Quote from: vandermolen on February 26, 2016, 02:44:57 PM
Super new release of Atterberg's Third Symphony, the 'West Coast Pictures'. Jarvi has been accused of racing through some earlier releases but not here; in fact the magical opening of the Symphony is played more slowly that the rival CPO and excellent Sixten Ehrling version, investing it with great poetry and slumbering power. The recording is spectacular allowing me to hear so much more detail than in earlier recordings.
[asin]B019SHQCJ8[/asin]
Quote
Jarvi has been accused of racing through some earlier releases but not here...
It is exciting to hear Jarvi play in such form, Jeffrey. This is the best release in the series yet, and for once in a very long time Jarvi has that wonderful sound he cultivated when he was with the SNO in the eighties. This version of Symphony 3 is outstanding and glorious sounding. I just LOVE Atterbergs output, and I'm amazed to say Jarvi has done the best job with it yet...reference stuff for me! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
By coincidence, I'm listening right now! 8 minutes into the "Storm" movement, which seems a little bit under-powered, but that might be these headphones' fault. This is definitely Jarvi's best Atterberg CD so far, though!
OK, symphony's over. This is definitely Jarvi's best outing yet, but there is a MAJOR weakness: the weak percussion! Through the storm section, the cymbals and their friends seem too far back, too shy. But the real problem is at the climax of the finale, when Rasilainen gives us that immaculately-timed super-hit of bass drum, cymbal crash, and timpani roll all in one thrilling unison as the rest of the orchestra plays its biggest chord. But Jarvi doesn't time the cymbal crash right...and there's no bass drum!!!
At least the harp at the end is perfect!
Quote from: Brian on March 04, 2016, 06:49:41 AM
OK, symphony's over. This is definitely Jarvi's best outing yet, but there is a MAJOR weakness: the weak percussion! Through the storm section, the cymbals and their friends seem too far back, too shy. But the real problem is at the climax of the finale, when Rasilainen gives us that immaculately-timed super-hit of bass drum, cymbal crash, and timpani roll all in one thrilling unison as the rest of the orchestra plays its biggest chord. But Jarvi doesn't time the cymbal crash right...and there's no bass drum!!!
At least the harp at the end is perfect!
I agree with you. I believe it is a 20 year old live concert performance of the Symphony which explains the balance issue (less mics on stage in concert than in studio) and the odd reason why the interpretation is better than the others...it was from Jarvi's glory days.
Quote from: Brian on March 04, 2016, 06:27:47 AM
By coincidence, I'm listening right now! 8 minutes into the "Storm" movement, which seems a little bit under-powered, but that might be these headphones' fault. This is definitely Jarvi's best Atterberg CD so far, though!
I reviewed it very positively on Amazon UK. Another reviewer was very negative, making the same point about the underpowered storm. I still enjoyed it enormously and agree that it's Jarvi's best Atterberg symphony yet. Any views on the recording under Sixten Ehrling which was my introduction to this fine symphony? Good to hear the different views about No.3.
Quote from: vandermolen on March 04, 2016, 09:42:49 AM
I reviewed it very positively on Amazon UK. Another reviewer was very negative, making the same point about the underpowered storm. I still enjoyed it enormously and agree that it's Jarvi's best Atterberg symphony yet. Any views on the recording under Sixten Ehrling which was my introduction to this fine symphony? Good to hear the different views about No.3.
The Sixten ehrling is the go to performance and a very fine recording. Highly recommended...it just has so much atmosphere and driving energy plus architectural planning which tends to be lacking in today's recordings.
Quote from: relm1 on March 05, 2016, 01:24:23 AM
The Sixten ehrling is the go to performance and a very fine recording. Highly recommended...it just has so much atmosphere and driving energy plus architectural planning which tends to be lacking in today's recordings.
Thanks very much. Will listen to it later.
Have just done so. The Ehrling performance conveys the greatest sense of urgency and is a great performance although I suspect that I will keep returning to the Jarvi which I like very much for both the performance and immediacy of the recording.
For some reason Symphony 6 passed me by. I have now discovered Beecham's old recording (1928), beautifully restored on Dutton and have come to realise what an engaging work it is:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Atterberg-Symphony-No-Mozart-34/dp/B01G64LKSY/ref=sr_1_7?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1464724651&sr=1-7&keywords=Atterberg+symphony+6
I'm just starting to get to know Atterberg. Based on the above discussions I decided to steer clear of the recent Chandos/Jarvi series. Instead I got two CPO discs:
Symphonies 3 & 6
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2000/dec00/atterberg36.jpg)
Cello Concerto / Horn Concerto
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91TXD-Jo2-L._SY355_.jpg)
Hopefully these should be enough for a nOOb like me.
I listened to the Symphony #3 last night, and was really impressed, particularly by the second movement.
Quote from: Judge Fish on January 26, 2017, 05:00:29 AM
I'm just starting to get to know Atterberg. Based on the above discussions I decided to steer clear of the recent Chandos/Jarvi series. Instead I got two CPO discs:
Symphonies 3 & 6
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2000/dec00/atterberg36.jpg)
Cello Concerto / Horn Concerto
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91TXD-Jo2-L._SY355_.jpg)
Hopefully these should be enough for a nOOb like me.
I listened to the Symphony #3 last night, and was really impressed, particularly by the second movement.
Excellent! Atterberg's 3rd is pure magic IMHO. Stunning work.
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 26, 2017, 06:23:05 AM
Excellent! Atterberg's 3rd is pure magic IMHO. Stunning work.
+1
The 5th too is a great work, in its more subdued, moody way. As well as the scrumptious piano concerto. And the delightful 3rd Suite, for viola and cello.
Quote from: André on January 26, 2017, 01:56:24 PM
The 5th too is a great work, in its more subdued, moody way. As well as the scrumptious piano concerto. And the delightful 3rd Suite, for viola and cello.
No 5 'Funebre' is my favourite.
Atterberg is one of my favourite Scandinavian composers. It is difficult not to be seduced by such sumptuous orchestration and mellifluous tunes and the third symphony is an exceptional example. The 2nd symphony is terrific too and the 2nd movement of 4th symphony has a nostalgic magic tune.
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on January 26, 2017, 03:34:21 PM
Atterberg is one of my favourite Scandinavian composers. It is difficult not to be seduced by such sumptuous orchestration and mellifluous tunes and the third symphony is an exceptional example. The 2nd symphony is terrific too and the 2nd movement of 4th symphony has a nostalgic magic tune.
Yes, I agree with you. I think he is one of those composers that I haven't heard a note of that I did not love.
Quote from: relm1 on January 26, 2017, 04:32:01 PM
Yes, I agree with you. I think he is one of those composers that I haven't heard a note of that I did not love.
I have the same feeling. The first time I heard the first 3 symphonies I was deeply impacted. I remember that and it gives me a sense of harmony and well-being. In fact I think I should revisit them all, many times aren't enough! :D
Quote from: Brian on July 23, 2015, 06:37:18 AM
relm1, I agree with you. This Jarvi Vol. 3 is easily the best CD in his series so far - I like it, whereas I hated the first two (http://musicweb-international.com/classrev/2014/Mar14/Atterberg_sys_v12_CHSA5116.htm). But you're right: he seems not to like the music very much.
This is also part of the Neeme Jarvi style: he is very bad at warm romantic emotions or effusions, and good at cool calculated efficiency. If you ever listen to his Saint-Saens album, you'll hear more of the same. As mentioned above, the other Atterberg cycle is indeed about 20% slower all the time. I would love to have heard a Lenny cycle.
There in fact IS a 16 minute version of Sibelius' No. 7. It has been posted here, and it's on my home computer, but I cannot remember who the conductor and orchestra are. (The recording was in mono and from the 40s or 50s.) I do remember liking it. Right now, inspired by your post, I'm listening to a Stokowski performance that's 16:58 - although the sound quality is abjectly awful.
I much prefer the Jarvi "style" on No. 8. For my 20th C. taste, the performance can be overly sentimental and plodding in the wrong hands. Yes, it lacks a bit of warmth, but for me it sound like a great composition with very few flaws at Jarvi's tempo. Just my opinion...
Just listening to symphonies 2 and 5 on CPO. This is one of my favourite Atterberg discs as it combines two of his best symphonies in my view. I especially like the 'Funebre'.
Quote from: vandermolen on September 13, 2017, 05:07:53 AM
Just listening to symphonies 2 and 5 on CPO. This is one of my favourite Atterberg discs as it combines two of his best symphonies in my view. I especially like the 'Funebre'.
Once again we are in agreement, Jeffrey :) The Second is a joyous, life-affirming work (with marvelously effective use of the orchestral piano), while the Fifth is dark, turbulent work with its "call-to-arms" opening and lugubrious "death waltz" in the finale. Along with the 2nd and 5th, I also rank the powerfully atmospheric 3rd among Atterberg's finest symphonies. I love them all, though, except perhaps the more austere 9th.
Quote from: kyjo on September 13, 2017, 06:36:40 AM
Once again we are in agreement, Jeffrey :) The Second is a joyous, life-affirming work (with marvelously effective use of the orchestral piano), while the Fifth is dark, turbulent work with its "call-to-arms" opening and lugubrious "death waltz" in the finale. Along with the 2nd and 5th, I also rank the powerfully atmospheric 3rd among Atterberg's finest symphonies. I love them all, though, except perhaps the more austere 9th.
Totally in agreement with you Kyle. I especially like the slow movement of No.8 but overall it is nos 2,3 and 5 'Funebre' which are my favourites.
My only problem with Atterberg is the fact that some of his symphonies were premiered in Nazi Germany - although that is my own stuff.
Quote from: vandermolen on September 13, 2017, 08:02:54 AM
Totally in agreement with you Kyle. I especially like the slow movement of No.8 but overall it is nos 2,3 and 5 'Funebre' which are my favourites.
My only problem with Atterberg is the fact that some of his symphonies were premiered in Nazi Germany - although that is my own stuff.
I find each one of Atterberg's slow movements to be masterpieces in themselves - they're so wonderfully atmospheric and rise to ecstatic climaxes. One of my favorite moments in Atterberg's symphonies is the slow introduction to the finale of his First, which has an almost Bachian gravitas that is very moving.
Yeah, the Nazi connection is a bit unsettling, but I try not to let political matters affect my opinion of a composer's music :)
Symphonies 3 and 5 are my strong favourites. This recording of no 5 is IMHO unbeatable:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61DkI%2BUg6uL.jpg)
It was my first acquaintance to this composer's symphonies some 20 years ago, so that may explain my loyalty to this performance :).
And this one of no 3 is also excellent:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91yy73goFBL._SX522_.jpg)
Quote from: André on September 13, 2017, 09:59:49 AM
Symphonies 3 and 5 are my strong favourites. This recording of no 5 is IMHO unbeatable:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61DkI%2BUg6uL.jpg)
It was my first acquaintance to this composer's symphonies some 20 years ago, so that may explain my loyalty to this performance :).
And this one of no 3 is also excellent:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91yy73goFBL._SX522_.jpg)
Totally agree with you. Those are the two great Atterberg symphony CDs.
:)
Quote from: André on September 13, 2017, 09:59:49 AM
Symphonies 3 and 5 are my strong favourites. This recording of no 5 is IMHO unbeatable:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61DkI%2BUg6uL.jpg)
It was my first acquaintance to this composer's symphonies some 20 years ago, so that may explain my loyalty to this performance :).
And this one of no 3 is also excellent:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91yy73goFBL._SX522_.jpg)
I must admit that, despite being an Atterberg fanatic, I've never bothered to listen to any other recordings of his symphonies besides the Rasilainen ones because I find them so immensely satisfying. I'll definitely check those two recordings of the Third and Fifth out at some point!
Any thoughts here on Jarvi's Atterberg cycle? His rapid tempi have turned me off to investigating his recordings - his Second, for instance, is a whole ten minutes faster than Rasilainen's! But I'll try to keep an open mind to them if other members think they're worth checking out :)
Quote from: kyjo on September 13, 2017, 04:02:12 PM
I must admit that, despite being an Atterberg fanatic, I've never bothered to listen to any other recordings of his symphonies besides the Rasilainen ones because I find them so immensely satisfying. I'll definitely check those two recordings of the Third and Fifth out at some point!
Any thoughts here on Jarvi's Atterberg cycle? His rapid tempi have turned me off to investigating his recordings - his Second, for instance, is a whole ten minutes faster than Rasilainen's! But I'll try to keep an open mind to them if other members think they're worth checking out :)
Like you, I haven't checked out any other performances of Atterberg's symphonies --- I'm almost scared to because Rasilainen has a certain atmosphere in his performances that just take my breath away. This said, Stig Westerberg and Sixten Erhling are both fantastic conductors, so I do imagine them bringing something special to Atterberg's music.
Quote from: kyjo on September 13, 2017, 04:02:12 PMAny thoughts here on Jarvi's Atterberg cycle? His rapid tempi have turned me off to investigating his recordings - his Second, for instance, is a whole ten minutes faster than Rasilainen's! But I'll try to keep an open mind to them if other members think they're worth checking out :)
Generally speaking, I turn to Jarvi when he is absolutely the only option available. In his heyday he was making so many recordings of unknown repertoire with so many orchestras for so many labels I swear they must have been recording as the orchestra sight-read.
Quote from: André on September 13, 2017, 09:59:49 AM
Symphonies 3 and 5 are my strong favourites. This recording of no 5 is IMHO unbeatable:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61DkI%2BUg6uL.jpg)
It was my first acquaintance to this composer's symphonies some 20 years ago, so that may explain my loyalty to this performance :).
And this one of no 3 is also excellent:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91yy73goFBL._SX522_.jpg)
Totally agree. These recordings just ooze atmosphere. I own the Jarvi and Rasilainen cycle but find the earlier recordings superior musically.
Quote from: relm1 on September 13, 2017, 04:30:25 PM
Totally agree. These recordings just ooze atmosphere. I own the Jarvi and Rasilainen cycle but find the earlier recordings superior musically.
I have the Jarvi and Rasilainen recordings and enjoy both of them, although Jarvi is in a bit of a hurry in some of the symphonies. Maybe like the late Richard Hickox (many of whose recordings I greatly admire) he has recorded too much. The point about the Westerberg and Ehrling recordings is that I came to know those symphonies through them and may be influenced by that experience, especially in the case of No.3. Having said that the quite magical opening of Symphony 3 in Ehrling's recording is, in my opinion, in a class of its own, conveying an intense and poetic sense of nostalgia from the start.
I have Caesar (SA) to thank for introducing me Atterberg's equally magical Piano Quintet - a chamber music version of Symphony 6 with is lovely slow movement.
Quote from: vandermolen on September 14, 2017, 05:58:06 AM
I have the Jarvi and Rasilainen recordings and enjoy both of them, although Jarvi is in a bit of a hurry in some of the symphonies. Maybe like the late Richard Hickox (many of whose recordings I greatly admire) he has recorded too much. The point about the Westerberg and Ehrling recordings is that I came to know those symphonies through them and may be influenced by that experience, especially in the case of No.3. Having said that the quite magical opening of Symphony 3 in Ehrling's recording is, in my opinion, in a class of its own, conveying an intense and poetic sense of nostalgia from the start.
I have Caesar (SA) to thank for introducing me Atterberg's equally magical Piano Quintet - a chamber music version of Symphony 6 with is lovely slow movement.
Agreed. There is something strange about this thread. Everyone agrees and knows what they're talking about. This isn't the internet I know. :P
A friend who performed on some of these Jarvi recordings says his process doesn't lend itself to depth. He is just too quick so there is a rehearsal then a recording then a few touch ups then next work during which time he doesn't say much. They are just in a hurry and I think that's why Jarvi's cycle, though well performed and proficient, lacks a sense of discovery or nuance that the earlier recordings have. That nuance takes time and a detailed approach which seems to not fit current recording economics.
Quote from: vandermolen on September 14, 2017, 05:58:06 AM
I have the Jarvi and Rasilainen recordings and enjoy both of them, although Jarvi is in a bit of a hurry in some of the symphonies. Maybe like the late Richard Hickox (many of whose recordings I greatly admire) he has recorded too much. The point about the Westerberg and Ehrling recordings is that I came to know those symphonies through them and may be influenced by that experience, especially in the case of No.3. Having said that the quite magical opening of Symphony 3 in Ehrling's recording is, in my opinion, in a class of its own, conveying an intense and poetic sense of nostalgia from the start.
I have Caesar (SA) to thank for introducing me Atterberg's equally magical Piano Quintet - a chamber music version of Symphony 6 with is lovely slow movement.
You're welcome, Jeffrey. It would be a sin if I didn't suggest it.
Latest on Forbes:
Classical CD Of The Week: Swedish Symphonic Exercises With Kurt Atterberg
(https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/960x0/https%3A%2F%2Fblogs-images.forbes.com%2Fjenslaurson%2Ffiles%2F2018%2F04%2FForbes_Classical-CD-of-the-Week_ATTERBERG_Symphony-3_v4_Jaervi_CHANDOS_Classical-Critic-Jens-F-Laurson-960.jpg)
Classical CD Of The Week: Swedish Symphonic Exercises With Kurt Atterberg
Exploring, discovering and rediscovering great music in new recordings and old music in great recordings.
Kurt Atterberg (1887-1974) is one of the most gorgeous symphonists you have never heard of.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2018/05/16/classical-cd-of-the-week-swedish-symphonic-exercises-with-kurt-atterberg/ (https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2018/05/16/classical-cd-of-the-week-swedish-symphonic-exercises-with-kurt-atterberg/)
I seem to recall reading somewhere that "Atterberg" is pronounced "Atterberry". Is this true? ;D
Quote from: kyjo on May 17, 2018, 08:14:42 AM
I seem to recall reading somewhere that "Atterberg" is pronounced "Atterberry". Is this true? ;D
I should think it's just a very breathy, soft "g" that makes it sound a little like an indistinct "berry".
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on May 17, 2018, 10:17:36 AM
I should think it's just a very breathy, soft "g" that makes it sound a little like an indistinct "berry".
Ah ok, that seems likely. Thanks!
Looking back through this thread, I don't see much mention of Atterberg's very fine First Symphony, which, for me, is just a notch below his best symphonies (2, 3, and 5 IMO). The first movement is dramatic and melancholy, and the slow movement is gorgeous and expansive (in typical Atterberg fashion). The scherzo, one of Atterberg's few symphonic scherzi (as most of his symphonies are in three movements), is dazzling and colorful. I think the slow introduction to the finale is one of Atterberg's finest moments, and a unique one in his output - it has an almost Bachian simplicity and poignancy that is quite affecting. The main body of the finale features one of those great, heroic horn themes that Atterberg excelled at.
Quote from: kyjo on May 18, 2018, 08:21:48 AM
Looking back through this thread, I don't see much mention of Atterberg's very fine First Symphony, which, for me, is just a notch below his best symphonies (2, 3, and 5 IMO). The first movement is dramatic and melancholy, and the slow movement is gorgeous and expansive (in typical Atterberg fashion). The scherzo, one of Atterberg's few symphonic scherzi (as most of his symphonies are in three movements), is dazzling and colorful. I think the slow introduction to the finale is one of Atterberg's finest moments, and a unique one in his output - it has an almost Bachian simplicity and poignancy that is quite affecting. The main body of the finale features one of those great, heroic horn themes that Atterberg excelled at.
Thanks Kyle - must listen to this. Don't know it at all.
Quote from: kyjo on May 17, 2018, 08:14:42 AM
I seem to recall reading somewhere that "Atterberg" is pronounced "Atterberry". Is this true? ;D
Atterbarry actually, and the g is silent. And Kurt with a short u (as the u in full).
Quote from: kyjo on May 18, 2018, 08:21:48 AM
Looking back through this thread, I don't see much mention of Atterberg's very fine First Symphony, which, for me, is just a notch below his best symphonies (2, 3, and 5 IMO). The first movement is dramatic and melancholy, and the slow movement is gorgeous and expansive (in typical Atterberg fashion). The scherzo, one of Atterberg's few symphonic scherzi (as most of his symphonies are in three movements), is dazzling and colorful. I think the slow introduction to the finale is one of Atterberg's finest moments, and a unique one in his output - it has an almost Bachian simplicity and poignancy that is quite affecting. The main body of the finale features one of those great, heroic horn themes that Atterberg excelled at.
Since you've 'blocked' me from private messaging you, I'll just post my message here:
I'm not sure
why you haven't bothered acknowledging my private message to you through Facebook, which I 'unfriended' you as a consequence, but, and I'll say it again, I do NOT appreciate you calling me out on this forum and belittling me by calling me 'narrow-minded'. My point about Finnish composers is I have heard none finer than Sibelius, which is an opinion that still stands. I do like Aho a good bit, but I just haven't found any Finn with the uniqueness of Sibelius. Look, if you don't want to be my friend, that's perfectly fine by me and I'll gladly turn my nose up at you whenever I see any of your posts (as I can play your childish game, too), but I do believe I deserve at least an apology as you're the one who initiated this whole issue by your thoughtless comment that couldn't have been further from the truth.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 19, 2018, 06:09:17 AM
Since you've 'blocked' me from private messaging you, I'll just post my message here:
I'm not sure why you haven't bothered acknowledging my private message to you through Facebook, which I 'unfriended' you as a consequence, but, and I'll say it again, I do NOT appreciate you calling me out on this forum and belittling me by calling me 'narrow-minded'. My point about Finnish composers is I have heard none finer than Sibelius, which is an opinion that still stands. I do like Aho a good bit, but I just haven't found any Finn with the uniqueness of Sibelius. Look, if you don't want to be my friend, that's perfectly fine by me and I'll gladly turn my nose up at you whenever I see any of your posts (as I can play your childish game, too), but I do believe I deserve at least an apology as you're the one who initiated this whole issue by your thoughtless comment that couldn't have been further from the truth.
Oh, come on,
John! I happen to have been an incidental witness of that instance and I took
kyjo's comment as being tongue in cheek; furthermore, he is one of the kindest and least conflictual posters. I think you overreact(ed) to it and then he might have taken your overrreaction way too seriously! I believe you two guys should just shake shands over this unfortunate misunderstanding and be friends again. It's a pity to see you too at war with each other.
+1
Quote from: Florestan on May 19, 2018, 08:16:23 AM
Oh, come on, John! I happen to have been an incidental witness of that instance and I took kyjo's comment as being tongue in cheek; furthermore, he is one of the kindest and least conflictual posters. I think you overreact(ed) to it and then he might have taken your overrreaction way too seriously! I believe you two guys should just shake shands over this unfortunate misunderstanding and be friends again. It's a pity to see you too at war with each other.
I agree with all you wrote.
Quote from: Florestan on May 19, 2018, 08:16:23 AM
Oh, come on, John! I happen to have been an incidental witness of that instance and I took kyjo's comment as being tongue in cheek; furthermore, he is one of the kindest and least conflictual posters. I think you overreact(ed) to it and then he might have taken your overrreaction way too seriously! I believe you two guys should just shake shands over this unfortunate misunderstanding and be friends again. It's a pity to see you too at war with each other.
I'll shake hands if agrees to do the same, but as it stands right now, he still has me on block nor has he acknowledged my previous post or the private message I sent him via Facebook. :-\
I know nothing about the silly personal quarrel but I do know that Atterberg was frequently Americanized at Ellis Island as ending in Y. When I was a kid, there was a nearby US Army training ground called Camp Atterbury.
I was unaware of this new release (until now):
(https://i.scdn.co/image/c70bf08b75e5c680a4be197ee6468a97493bc5ed)
Does anyone have that CD? It's the first commercial recording of the Double Concerto.
Nice! You should post it in the "New Releases" thread so others who aren't already fans of Atterberg can be exposed to this.
Good idea!
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on February 11, 2019, 12:28:30 PM
I was unaware of this new release (until now):
(https://i.scdn.co/image/c70bf08b75e5c680a4be197ee6468a97493bc5ed)
Does anyone have that CD? It's the first commercial recording of the Double Concerto.
Fantastic! Thanks for notifying us, Cesar.
Atterberg doesn't get enough love. Yes, yes, he might not be the most original or innovative but he is still an excellent composer of such beautiful music. Though I love thorny music, Atterberg is one of the most consistently pleasing composers I ever listen to. I am currently listening to this recording:
(https://i.scdn.co/image/c70bf08b75e5c680a4be197ee6468a97493bc5ed)
...and it stops me in my tracks with how beautiful it is. I have never heard the Barocco Suite before but damn it's gorgeous! I had it on in the background and it demanded my attention. Why isn't there a complete recording of one of Aterberg's operas yet or a complete set of his suites? Every one I have heard has been gorgeous and very finely crafted.
Quote from: relm1 on March 17, 2019, 03:26:25 PM
Atterberg doesn't get enough love. Yes, yes, he might not be the most original or innovative but he is still an excellent composer of such beautiful music. Though I love thorny music, Atterberg is one of the most consistently pleasing composers I ever listen to. I am currently listening to this recording:
(https://i.scdn.co/image/c70bf08b75e5c680a4be197ee6468a97493bc5ed)
...and it stops me in my tracks with how beautiful it is. I have never heard the Barocco Suite before but damn it's gorgeous! I had it on in the background and it demanded my attention. Why isn't there a complete recording of one of Aterberg's operas yet or a complete set of his suites? Every one I have heard has been gorgeous and very finely crafted.
Well, Atterberg certainly gets enough love from me, at least! ;D I totally agree, he was a remarkably consistently inspired composer; I've never heard a weak work from his pen. (Even his relatively disappointing 9th Symphony is nowhere near bad.)
Yes, the
Suite Barocco is gorgeous, especially the 5th movement,
Siciliana. We do indeed urgently need recordings of his complete operas and suites, not to mention his two ballets and numerous vocal works including a Requiem...
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51BEoqM%2BtKL._AC_.jpg)
There is a theme on the violin in the first movement of the concerto that reminds me strongly of another music. But what exactly?
It occurs at 2:57 and 12:48 in this recording, probably 10-15 seconds earlier in the CPO disc, which clocks at 2 minutes less overall than this one.
Anyone cares to listen to the passage and try to identify it?
Quote from: André on May 14, 2020, 01:17:08 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51BEoqM%2BtKL._AC_.jpg)
There is a theme on the violin in the first movement of the concerto that reminds me strongly of another music. But what exactly?
It occurs at 2:57 and 12:48 in this recording, probably 10-15 seconds earlier in the CPO disc, which clocks at 2 minutes less overall than this one.
Anyone cares to listen to the passage and try to identify it?
I listened to the CPO version on You Tube but nothing obviously came to mind, although I was reminded a bit of the Sibelius VC.
I can't say I find a sibelian influence here. I do hear plenty of delian connections in both works, but that theme is not one of them. The plot thickens... :P
I listened to the VC a couple of weeks ago, in the CPO version, and remember thinking "that sounds familiar but I can't place it". I will try to listen to it tomorrow.
BTW, why are we discussing WPB's concerto in the Atterberg thread? :P
I have become a big fan of Atterberg.
He is a great composer who is not great. He may not be in the same class as a Beethoven but he still composed some great music. The vast majority of us here have found some wonderful music beyond those of the great masters.
One of my favorite Atterberg works is his Eighth Symphony. The arch of the work reminds me of the New World. Here we have a symphony that seems to be similar to the New World but it is still unique in its own way.
I preform a daily walk to keep in shape during the virus crises. Sometimes I will carry my CD player (No new fangled technology for me) and listen to the Eighth. Marvolous.
Quote from: arpeggio on May 14, 2020, 06:52:32 PM
I have become a big fan of Atterberg.
He is a great composer who is not great. He may not be in the same class as a Beethoven but he still composed some great music. The vast majority of us here have found some wonderful music beyond those of the great masters.
One of my favorite Atterberg works is his Eighth Symphony. The arch of the work reminds me of the New World. Here we have a symphony that seems to be similar to the New World but it is still unique in its own way.
I preform a daily walk to keep in shape during the virus crises. Sometimes I will carry my CD player (No new fangled technology for me) and listen to the Eighth. Marvolous.
I really love the 3rd symphony. This is one work I could listen to any time of the day and everyday and never get bored with it. Absolutely enchanting from start to finish.
This may sound shocking, but my love for the 3rd has decreased. I was in an Atterberg marathon some weeks ago and that was my impression. I don't find the first two movements great anymore, only the III still moves me.
Having said that, my favorite Atterberg symphonies are: 1, 2, 6 and 8.
The 9th is definitely the least interesting. I listened to the Chandos recording with Järvi with the hope it would impress me best, but alas, it didn't at all.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 14, 2020, 07:38:04 PM
This may sound shocking, but my love for the 3rd has decreased. I was in an Atterberg marathon some weeks ago and that was my impression. I don't find the first two movements great anymore, only the III still moves me.
Having said that, my favorite Atterberg symphonies are: 1, 2, 6 and 8.
The 9th is definitely the least interesting. I listened to the Chandos recording with Järvi with the hope it would impress me best, but alas, it didn't at all.
I'm not fond of the 9th either and never listen to it. I also like the concerti. I haven't heard any of his chamber works.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 14, 2020, 07:38:04 PM
This may sound shocking, but my love for the 3rd has decreased. I was in an Atterberg marathon some weeks ago and that was my impression. I don't find the first two movements great anymore, only the III still moves me.
Having said that, my favorite Atterberg symphonies are: 1, 2, 6 and 8.
The 9th is definitely the least interesting. I listened to the Chandos recording with Järvi with the hope it would impress me best, but alas, it didn't at all.
I'm somewhat inclined to agree with you about the 3rd, Cesar, after a recent listen. The 1st movement is lovely (though not very "symphonic" perhaps), but this time around I found the 2nd movement to be rather bombastic, even banal, in places (too many cymbal crashes!), and the melodic material to be not some of Atterberg's best. I still think the glorious 3rd movement is one of his finest creations, of course. So, in summary, the 2nd movement
somewhat spoils the work for me and, on balance, I prefer his 1st, 2nd, and 5th symphonies overall. Don't get me wrong, I still love the 3rd, I've just become a bit more critical towards it.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 14, 2020, 07:20:15 PM
I really love the 3rd symphony. This is one work I could listen to any time of the day and everyday and never get bored with it. Absolutely enchanting from start to finish.
+1, it's a magical work from start to finish. Something very special about it. It's lonely, atmospheric, epic, dramatic, bold, concise, and ultimately transformative.
Quote from: relm1 on May 24, 2020, 04:00:19 PM
+1, it's a magical work from start to finish. Something very special about it. It's lonely, atmospheric, epic, dramatic, bold, concise, and ultimately transformative.
8) Good to hear you enjoy it as well.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 14, 2020, 07:38:04 PM
This may sound shocking, but my love for the 3rd has decreased. I was in an Atterberg marathon some weeks ago and that was my impression. I don't find the first two movements great anymore, only the III still moves me.
Having said that, my favorite Atterberg symphonies are: 1, 2, 6 and 8.
The 9th is definitely the least interesting. I listened to the Chandos recording with Järvi with the hope it would impress me best, but alas, it didn't at all.
I agree about No.9 Cesar. My own favourites are 2,3 (especially in Ehrling's recording), 5 and 8 (slow moment). My favourite now is probably No.5 'Funebre' which has grown on me in recent years. I enjoy the Jarvi's recordings but feel that his tempo is much too fast in several of the symphonies. I prefer Westerberg's performance:
(//)
I know pretty much nothing about this composer.
I listened to the 1st Symphony on Spotify (Neeme Järvi)
The first movement had very Elgarian orchestration (weird experience), but the other movement not so much. The second movement sounded ridiculously romantic, Tchaikovskian. Movements 3 and 4 didn't remind me of anything. It as if Atterberg but all the colors in movements 1 & 2. The Symphony had little bit a feel of movie music.
Atterberg is another example of "Nordic" composer getting no better treatment from Naxos than some smaller works on "Swedish Favorites" compilations... ::)
Quote from: 71 dB on May 25, 2020, 01:04:21 AM
I know pretty much nothing about this composer.
I listened to the 1st Symphony on Spotify (Neeme Järvi)
The first movement had very Elgarian orchestration (weird experience), but the other movement not so much. The second movement sounded ridiculously romantic, Tchaikovskian. Movements 3 and 4 didn't remind me of anything. It as if Atterberg but all the colors in movements 1 & 2. The Symphony had little bit a feel of movie music.
Atterberg is another example of "Nordic" composer getting no better treatment from Naxos than some smaller works on "Swedish Favorites" compilations... ::)
2,3,5 and 8 may be worth exploring.
Quote from: vandermolen on May 24, 2020, 11:14:57 PM
I agree about No.9 Cesar. My own favourites are 2,3 (especially in Ehrling's recording), 5 and 8 (slow moment). My favourite now is probably No.5 'Funebre' which has grown on me in recent years. I enjoy the Jarvi's recordings but feel that his tempo is much too fast in several of the symphonies. I prefer Westerberg's performance:
(https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11712.0;attach=64668;image)
One of the treasures of the Musica Sveciae catalogue ! The Kallstenius and Lindberg works are very fine, too.
Quote from: vandermolen on May 25, 2020, 03:09:09 AM
2,3,5 and 8 may be worth exploring.
I am kind of planning to listen to the Symphonies through and it's up to the composer whether I have the interest to listen to them all. Symphony no. 1 was a "neutral" start. I wasn't turned away nor hooked. Could be I am the only one into 4, 7 and 9? Could be I am not. You never know...
Quote from: 71 dB on May 25, 2020, 05:35:57 AM
I am kind of planning to listen to the Symphonies through and it's up to the composer whether I have the interest to listen to them all. Symphony no. 1 was a "neutral" start. I wasn't turned away nor hooked. Could be I am the only one into 4, 7 and 9? Could be I am not. You never know...
We shall see...
:)
71 dB, listen to Atterberg's Symphony No. 3. You'll be hooked.
Quote from: 71 dB on May 25, 2020, 05:35:57 AM
I am kind of planning to listen to the Symphonies through and it's up to the composer whether I have the interest to listen to them all. Symphony no. 1 was a "neutral" start. I wasn't turned away nor hooked. Could be I am the only one into 4, 7 and 9? Could be I am not. You never know...
You certainly can't go wrong with listening to the cycle in chronological order. I hope you enjoy the journey! BTW, I love the 4th and 7th symphonies very much (the only one I don't
love is the 9th). :)
Quote from: kyjo on May 25, 2020, 08:47:39 AM
You certainly can't go wrong with listening to the cycle in chronological order. I hope you enjoy the journey! BTW, I love the 4th and 7th symphonies very much (the only one I don't love is the 9th). :)
Oh, okay. It will be interesting to hear myself why the 9th gets so little love from Atterbergians ;)
I think I listen to the 2nd tomorrow...
I remember a few years ago I listened to the Bax Symphonies chronologically and it wasn't until the 6th things clicked with me. I got the Naxos disc of it and that's the only Bax Symphony I need. 0:) Could be out of the 9 Symphonies by Atterberg only one ot two resonates with me, but we'll see.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 14, 2020, 07:38:04 PM
I listened to the Chandos recording with Järvi with the hope it would impress me best, but alas, it didn't at all.
This is the key. Jarvi was a horrible Atterberg conductor. He clearly didn't care for the composer or like the music. He was more about adding more recordings to his list. To me as a fan of Atterberg, the chandos series said much more about how unreliable Jarvi was as a conductor. His 1980's recordings were considerably finer than his modern releases which are purely commercially focused as the performers will attest. Performers on some of these Chandos releases literally said this. No rehearsing, just recording with a possible patch then move on. I am very disappointed in his recent Chandos releases and have realized I need to avoid them.
Quote from: relm1 on May 25, 2020, 04:25:23 PM
This is the key. Jarvi was a horrible Atterberg conductor. He clearly didn't care for the composer or like the music. He was more about adding more recordings to his list. To me as a fan of Atterberg, the chandos series said much more about how unreliable Jarvi was as a conductor. His 1980's recordings were considerably finer than his modern releases which are purely commercially focused as the performers will attest. Performers on some of these Chandos releases literally said this. No rehearsing, just recording with a possible patch then move on. I am very disappointed in his recent Chandos releases and have realized I need to avoid them.
I have the same feeling about Jarvi. I have been listening to the various recordings of Atterberg's
Symphonies on the Naxos Music Library Website. I prefer the recordings with Ari Rasilainen on the CPO Label. I normally like Jarvi and I have no idea why I do not connect with these recordings.
Re: the Jarvi recordings of the symphonies, I've avoided them based on overwhelmingly negative opinions, especially from this site. However, a fellow Atterberg enthusiast thinks very highly of Jarvi's recordings of the 4th and 6th symphonies on the first volume in the Chandos series (he prefers them to Rasilainen's), so I'm compelled to check those out, at least.
Despite being a huge Atterberg fan, there's been one major work in his output which I've neglected to listen to until recently, and that is the Sinfonia for Strings. And what a lovely work it turned out to be! Composed between the 8th and 9th symphonies in 1953, it's prime Atterberg and never once did I miss the resources of a full orchestra, so masterful is his writing for strings. The passionately lyrical first movement is particularly wonderful, and the cathartic climax of the last movement giving way to a resigned ending is really memorable. The CPO recording by the Camerata Nordica under Ulf Wallin (who is, by the way, an incredible violinist) is first-rate in every regard - full of vitality and emotional involvement:
[asin]B000E0VNS4[/asin]
Quote from: arpeggio on May 25, 2020, 07:55:29 PM
I have the same feeling about Jarvi. I have been listening to the various recordings of Atterberg's Symphonies on the Naxos Music Library Website. I prefer the recordings with Ari Rasilainen on the CPO Label. I normally like Jarvi and I have no idea why I do not connect with these recordings.
I still value a lot of Jarvi's old recordings for BIS, particularly the Sibelius, which seems to have been supplanted in the BIS catalog by the Vaska recordings, which I find not nearly as convincing.
The later part of Jarvi's career, however, strikes me as mass production. I never felt a need to add to the cpo Atterberg set, which I cherish.
I like Järvi's earlier recordings, but I feel he's a conductor that has phoned it in years ago. I do really love his early work on BIS and his earlier Chandos recordings, especially his Prokofiev.
I've only heard the recordings of symphonies 1 and 9. Järvi and his orchestra are very good on the 1st.
Quote from: Baron Scarpia on May 25, 2020, 08:16:52 PM
I still value a lot of Jarvi's old recordings for BIS, particularly the Sibelius, which seems to have been supplanted in the BIS catalog by the Vaska recordings, which I find not nearly as convincing.
The later part of Jarvi's career, however, strikes me as mass production. I never felt a need to add to the cpo Atterberg set, which I cherish.
I'm inclined to agree with you BS. Some of his earlier recordings were terrific. For example, Khachaturian's Second Symphony on Chandos - I don't know a better performance, the opening is marvellously intimidating in his recording! The Tubin symphony cycle on BIS is another highlight for me and preferable, IMO, to the Volmer cycle on Alba (which I also enjoy). However, as has been said, his Atterberg cycle was largely disappointing, in my view, because of the hasty tempos, much the same can be said of his recording of Raff's Symphony No.5 'Lenore'. There is a very good Jarvi recording of Paul Creston's Second Symphony. One recording that I do like is one that received little love elsewhere - Copland's Third Symphony with Roy Harris's Third Symphony and there's a VW Honegger CD:[asin][/asin]
(//)
Quote from: relm1 on May 25, 2020, 04:25:23 PM
This is the key. Jarvi was a horrible Atterberg conductor. He clearly didn't care for the composer or like the music. He was more about adding more recordings to his list. To me as a fan of Atterberg, the chandos series said much more about how unreliable Jarvi was as a conductor. His 1980's recordings were considerably finer than his modern releases which are purely commercially focused as the performers will attest. Performers on some of these Chandos releases literally said this. No rehearsing, just recording with a possible patch then move on. I am very disappointed in his recent Chandos releases and have realized I need to avoid them.
Back in the early '80's when I was a music student, a friend got some work depping with the (then) Scottish National Orchestra who were making their first recording with Neeme Jarvi. If memory serves it was the Chandos 2 disc set of suites from Rimsky Korsakov operas. The friend said what an impact Jarvi had and indeed that set still sounds remarkably good. I'm not sure that Jarvi's basic interpretational style has changed much over the years; dynamic and temperamental extremes with tempi often on the faster side of things but it did seem that in those earlier years he backed up the style of performance with a personal/emotional engagement that made for often compelling and convincing recordings. Now - a bit like Mehta sadly - he seems to simply go through the motions of producing performances that "work" and are perfectly OK but with little depth or care. But he must be a record producer's delight - quick and a safe pair of hands......
Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 25, 2020, 11:04:32 PM
Back in the early '80's when I was a music student, a friend got some work depping with the (then) Scottish National Orchestra who were making their first recording with Neeme Jarvi. If memory serves it was the Chandos 2 disc set of suites from Rimsky Korsakov operas. The friend said what an impact Jarvi had and indeed that set still sounds remarkably good. I'm not sure that Jarvi's basic interpretational style has changed much over the years; dynamic and temperamental extremes with tempi often on the faster side of things but it did seem that in those earlier years he backed up the style of performance with a personal/emotional engagement that made for often compelling and convincing recordings. Now - a bit like Mehta sadly - he seems to simply go through the motions of producing performances that "work" and are perfectly OK but with little depth or care. But he must be a record producer's delight - quick and a safe pair of hands......
I was listening to that Rimsky-Korsakov set recently, and it is indeed splendid.
Ok, I just finished listening to the 2nd Symphony on Spotify, this time Ari Rasilainen since people seem to dislike post 80's Neeme Järvi.
I think the 2nd is a bit better than the 1st, but my mind wasn't blown away yet, nor am I hooked to the composer at this point, but then again Atterberg has seven Symphonies left to really impress me and of course it can be a non-Symphony work that blows my mind. 0:)
Atterberg uses orchestra nicely and gives me occationally Elgarian vibes, but the orchestral colors aren't as vibrant. The music is somewhat complex and there's nice amount of counterpoint althou at times the music feel childish (as if it was movie music from a bad action flick) and a few bars here and there feels like "placeholders" for better ideas that never happened. At best Atterberg's chord progression tastes delicious. At worst it feels like small miss-steps that take away the momentum of the music temporarily. Atterberg is surprisingly uneven in this sense. It's as if he tried hard and had 80 % control of what he was doing and sometimes managed to achieve great things, but sometimes not.
Movement two of Symphony two has been the strongest movement so far. The adagio - presto - adagio - presto - adagio structure makes it effective "flip-flopping" and the material isn't bad at all.
Now some of you probably tell me how this is completely wrong analyse of the composers music, but this is after hearing his 2 first symponies once each and I don't have a formal music theory education. This is about what Atterbergs music does to me so the way I analyse music is relevant, no matter how stupid it is from academic point of view. I don't expect anyone to agree with me. This is not about facts. This is about taste and how we listen to music.
Quote from: vandermolen on May 25, 2020, 10:17:51 PM
I'm inclined to agree with you BS. Some of his earlier recordings were terrific. For example, Khachaturian's Second Symphony on Chandos - I don't know a better performance, the opening is marvellously intimidating in his recording! The Tubin symphony cycle on BIS is another highlight for me and preferable, IMO, to the Volmer cycle on Alba (which I also enjoy). However, as has been said, his Atterberg cycle was largely disappointing, in my view, because of the hasty tempos, much the same can be said of his recording of Raff's Symphony No.5 'Lenore'. There is a very good Jarvi recording of Paul Creston's Second Symphony. One recording that I do like is one that received little love elsewhere - Copland's Third Symphony with Roy Harris's Third Symphony and there's a VW Honegger CD:[asin][/asin]
(//)
I agree about the excellence of Jarvi's Tubin, Creston, and Harris recordings. Oddly enough, I enjoyed his markedly brisk yet undeniably exciting Raff 5 (I think it's my overall favorite recording of the work), especially in the outer movements, but it's not perfect by any means - the poignant central section of the third movement depicting the parting of the lovers (I think?) is rushed through with little feeling.
Quote from: 71 dB on May 26, 2020, 07:35:00 AM
Ok, I just finished listening to the 2nd Symphony on Spotify, this time Ari Rasilainen since people seem to dislike post 80's Neeme Järvi.
I think the 2nd is a bit better than the 1st, but my mind wasn't blown away yet, nor am I hooked to the composer at this point, but then again Atterberg has seven Symphonies left to really impress me and of course it can be a non-Symphony work that blows my mind. 0:)
Atterberg uses orchestra nicely and gives me occationally Elgarian vibes, but the orchestral colors aren't as vibrant. The music is somewhat complex and there's nice amount of counterpoint althou at times the music feel childish (as if it was movie music from a bad action flick) and a few bars here and there feels like "placeholders" for better ideas that never happened. At best Atterberg's chord progression tastes delicious. At worst it feels like small miss-steps that take away the momentum of the music temporarily. Atterberg is surprisingly uneven in this sense. It's as if he tried hard and had 80 % control of what he was doing and sometimes managed to achieve great things, but sometimes not.
Movement two of Symphony two has been the strongest movement so far. The adagio - presto - adagio - presto - adagio structure makes it effective "flip-flopping" and the material isn't bad at all.
Now some of you probably tell me how this is completely wrong analyse of the composers music, but this is after hearing his 2 first symponies once each and I don't have a formal music theory education. This is about what Atterbergs music does to me so the way I analyse music is relevant, no matter how stupid it is from academic point of view. I don't expect anyone to agree with me. This is not about facts. This is about taste and how we listen to music.
Thanks for reporting back with your impressions! The 2nd may just be my favorite symphony of his, with its magnificent central movement which ingeniously combines slow movement and scherzo and features one of Atterberg's most ecstatically glorious melodies. I also love the way he uses orchestral piano in this work (as well as in the 5th symphony).
Quote from: Baron Scarpia on May 26, 2020, 05:39:46 AM
I was listening to that Rimsky-Korsakov set recently, and it is indeed splendid.
+1 for both your comments.
Quote from: kyjo on May 26, 2020, 09:48:27 AM
I agree about the excellence of Jarvi's Tubin, Creston, and Harris recordings. Oddly enough, I enjoyed his markedly brisk yet undeniably exciting Raff 5 (I think it's my overall favorite recording of the work), especially in the outer movements, but it's not perfect by any means - the poignant central section of the third movement depicting the parting of the lovers (I think?) is rushed through with little feeling.
I must listen to the Raff again. I enjoyed it but some sections sounded rushed as far as I recall. I seem to recall enjoying recordings by Butt and Herrmann.
Quote from: kyjo on May 26, 2020, 09:53:27 AM
Thanks for reporting back with your impressions! The 2nd may just be my favorite symphony of his, with its magnificent central movement which ingeniously combines slow movement and scherzo and features one of Atterberg's most ecstatically glorious melodies. I also love the way he uses orchestral piano in this work (as well as in the 5th symphony).
ATT3RBERG: After the hype of this symphony I was a bit disappointed. I did not like this one as much as I liked the 2nd. The third starts nicely with a pastoral feel, but the first movement becomes dull. The second movement has pretty weak material and it's as if Atterberg though making the orchestration as stormy as possible will fool the listeners. The last minute of the second movement is good and sounds nice after 10 minutes of "storm." The rather long finale is as dull as the second movement except for the last 4 minutes where Atterberg becomes almost Carl Nielsen. The Elgarian feel of the first two symphonies is gone and instead this symphony gives me feel of Sibelius and the second movement "Khachaturian."
The second symphony was promising, but the third killed my hopes. Perhaps Atterberg just isn't my cup of tea?
Quote from: 71 dB on May 27, 2020, 07:13:36 AM
ATT3RBERG:
After the hype of this symphony I was a bit disappointed. I did not like this one as much as I liked the 2nd. The third starts nicely with a pastoral feel, but the first movement becomes dull. The second movement has pretty weak material and it's as if Atterberg though making the orchestration as stormy as possible will fool the listeners. The last minute of the second movement is good and sounds nice after 10 minutes of "storm." The rather long finale is as dull as the second movement except for the last 4 minutes where Atterberg becomes almost Carl Nielsen. The Elgarian feel of the first two symphonies is gone and instead this symphony gives me feel of Sibelius and the second movement "Khachaturian."
The second symphony was promising, but the third killed my hopes. Perhaps Atterberg just isn't my cup of tea?
Try No.5 'Funebre' - my favourite.
Quote from: 71 dB on May 27, 2020, 07:13:36 AM
ATT3RBERG:
After the hype of this symphony I was a bit disappointed. I did not like this one as much as I liked the 2nd. The third starts nicely with a pastoral feel, but the first movement becomes dull. The second movement has pretty weak material and it's as if Atterberg though making the orchestration as stormy as possible will fool the listeners. The last minute of the second movement is good and sounds nice after 10 minutes of "storm." The rather long finale is as dull as the second movement except for the last 4 minutes where Atterberg becomes almost Carl Nielsen. The Elgarian feel of the first two symphonies is gone and instead this symphony gives me feel of Sibelius and the second movement "Khachaturian."
The second symphony was promising, but the third killed my hopes. Perhaps Atterberg just isn't my cup of tea?
As if Sibelius analogy could be seen as a negative criticism. ::) As for the second movement, he wasn't 'fooling' anyone and I think that kind of criticism is childish on your part. The 3rd is a masterpiece regardless of what you say about it. Also, your Elgar comparison doesn't make any sense to me. Atterberg is closer to Rachmaninov than Elgar.
I do think the storm movement is way too long/repetitive. But to me the ending is very "old Hollywood," like a 40s movie score or even young John Williams, rather than Nielsen.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 27, 2020, 07:34:27 AM
As if Sibelius analogy could be seen as a negative criticism. ::) As for the second movement, he wasn't 'fooling' anyone and I think that kind of criticism is childish on your part. The 3rd is a masterpiece regardless of what you say about it. Also, your Elgar comparison doesn't make any sense to me. Atterberg is closer to Rachmaninov than Elgar.
Butthurt are you? Sorry if my opinions are childish to you. I don't claim to have a deep understanding of Atterberg's art at his point. These are my initial impressions and they might evolve in time. I could say my mind is blown away by every bar of music written by Atterberg, but I'd be lying. I try to be honest here and if it's childish then it is. How professional analyse do you expect from someone who is a total
newbie to the composer in question? Yes, Atterberg could be closer to Rachmaninov than Elgar, but the first two symphonies gave me feel of Elgarian use of orchestra and I am an Elgarian, not a Rachmaninovian, nor a fan of Sibelius even if I am a Finn. ;D
Quote from: Brian on May 27, 2020, 07:50:31 AM
I do think the storm movement is way too long/repetitive. But to me the ending is very "old Hollywood," like a 40s movie score or even young John Williams, rather than Nielsen.
Sorry, if I was unclear. I said the finale (third) movement is rather long (not repetitive) and the last 4 minutes for me are one of the highlights of the symphony and had feel of Carl Nielsen. Yes, the end of the second movement "Storm" could be John Williams and I liked it. I like John Williams' scores. He is my favorite Movie composer.
What I say about these Atterberg symphonies is not to taken as DEEP theoretical academic analyse of the music! This is my impressions when hearing these symphonies for the first time in my life. Please don't take them too seriously and I don't expect other people to have the same impressions. If you have totally different impressions fine, but please don't tell MY impressions are wrong, because they are REAL impressions to me, what I feel when hearing this music.
Quote from: 71 dB on May 27, 2020, 08:31:33 AM
Butthurt are you? Sorry if my opinions are childish to you. I don't claim to have a deep understanding of Atterberg's art at his point. These are my initial impressions and they might evolve in time. I could say my mind is blown away by every bar of music written by Atterberg, but I'd be lying. I try to be honest here and if it's childish then it is. How professional analyse do you expect from someone who is a total newbie to the composer in question? Yes, Atterberg could be closer to Rachmaninov than Elgar, but the first two symphonies gave me feel of Elgarian use of orchestra and I am an Elgarian, not a Rachmaninovian, nor a fan of Sibelius even if I am a Finn. ;D
My point is making a criticism which mentions a composer 'fooling' a listener is actually a foolish opinion, because you don't know what the intention of the composer was and to reduce it, somehow, to saying he's trying to pull a 'fast one' on the listener made me cringe. That's all I'm saying.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 27, 2020, 09:01:19 AM
My point is making a criticism which mentions a composer 'fooling' a listener is actually a foolish opinion, because you don't know what the intention of the composer was and to reduce it, somehow, to saying he's trying to pull a 'fast one' on the listener made me cringe. That's all I'm saying.
You are right, I don't know what Atterberg was thinking while composing this work. That's why I said:
"it's as if Atterberg though making the orchestration as stormy as possible will fool the listeners."The underlined portion should tell you I didn't
claim Atterberg decided to fool people. Maybe he did. Maybe he didn't. Most probably he didn't, but the second movement gave me this IMPRESSION regardless of what Atterberg himself was doing himself and what his intentions were. Maybe he simply had an artistic vision to compose stormy music and that's it. Please take my posts a bit less seriously. Thank you.
Quote from: 71 dB on May 27, 2020, 07:13:36 AM
ATT3RBERG:
After the hype of this symphony I was a bit disappointed. I did not like this one as much as I liked the 2nd. The third starts nicely with a pastoral feel, but the first movement becomes dull. The second movement has pretty weak material and it's as if Atterberg though making the orchestration as stormy as possible will fool the listeners. The last minute of the second movement is good and sounds nice after 10 minutes of "storm." The rather long finale is as dull as the second movement except for the last 4 minutes where Atterberg becomes almost Carl Nielsen. The Elgarian feel of the first two symphonies is gone and instead this symphony gives me feel of Sibelius and the second movement "Khachaturian."
The second symphony was promising, but the third killed my hopes. Perhaps Atterberg just isn't my cup of tea?
Maybe you'll enjoy his more concise symphonies, like the 4th, 6th, and 8th, more? :-\
Quote from: kyjo on May 27, 2020, 09:56:28 AM
Maybe you'll enjoy his more concise symphonies, like the 4th, 6th, and 8th, more? :-\
Doesn't really matter if all he'll do is compare him to Elgar. ;)
A piece of advice to 71dB: listen to more music apart from Elgar and Nielsen. It's rather unfair and unprecise to reduce everything to Elgar.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 27, 2020, 10:52:26 AM
Doesn't really matter if all he'll do is compare him to Elgar. ;)
And Tchaikovsky, Nielsen and Khachaturian... :P
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 27, 2020, 10:57:52 AM
A piece of advice to 71dB: listen to more music apart from Elgar and Nielsen. It's rather unfair and unprecise to reduce everything to Elgar.
I haven't listened to Elgar or Nielsen much lately as I have been exploring other composers (Weinberg, Englund, Petterson, Atterberg...). That said, it not your business what I listen to.
Quote from: 71 dB on May 27, 2020, 11:03:41 AM
I haven't listened to Elgar or Nielsen much lately as I have been exploring other composers (Weinberg, Englund, Petterson, Atterberg...). That said, it not your business what I listen to.
I don't think Cesar meant any harm in what he was suggesting, 71 dB. Stop being so sensitive.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 27, 2020, 10:57:52 AM
A piece of advice to 71dB: listen to more music apart from Elgar and Nielsen. It's rather unfair and unprecise to reduce everything to Elgar.
And how is it "unfair?"
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 27, 2020, 10:57:52 AM
A piece of advice to 71dB: listen to more music apart from Elgar and Nielsen. It's rather unfair and unprecise to reduce everything to Elgar.
Quote from: Baron Scarpia on May 27, 2020, 11:35:38 AM
And how is it "unfair?"
(https://media.tenor.com/images/23b875bff0290d88431de8cb75a161c3/tenor.gif)
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 27, 2020, 11:08:26 AM
I don't think Cesar meant any harm in what he was suggesting, 71 dB. Stop being so sensitive.
In late 90's when I got into classical music I did not have internet connection home and when I got internet connection I didn't join online discussion boards until around 2004. I had much more time to explore music and also I didn't have to argue about everything with strangers online. I just had my opinions, impressions, delusions and what not and nobody argued against them. In that sense I miss those old times...
...to fans of Atterberg: I could have chosen to NOT explore Atterberg at all, but I did chose to explore his music. How long did it take you to really get into his music? 10 seconds? 10 minutes? 10 hours? I have listened to 3 symphonies together about 2 hours worth of music. I have seen people mention here it took them
years to warm up to Elgar and I am supposed to become a hardcore Atterbergian in 3 days? Come on...
Just enjoy my silly impressions of his music as a total newbie who understands hardly 10 % of his art. ;D
P.S. I don't expect/require Atterberg to sound like Elgar. I like a lot of composers who don't sound like Elgar at all.
Quote from: 71 dB on May 27, 2020, 11:47:46 AM
In late 90's when I got into classical music I did not have internet connection home and when I got internet connection I didn't join online discussion boards until around 2004. I had much more time to explore music and also I didn't have to argue about everything with strangers online. I just had my opinions, impressions, delusions and what not and nobody argued against them. In that sense I miss those old times...
...to fans of Atterberg: I could have chosen to NOT explore Atterberg at all, but I did chose to explore his music. How long did it take you to really get into his music? 10 seconds? 10 minutes? 10 hours? I have listened to 3 symphonies together about 2 hours worth of music. I have seen people mention here it took them years to warm up to Elgar and I am supposed to become a hardcore Atterbergian in 3 days? Come on...
Just enjoy my silly impressions of his music as a total newbie who understands hardly 10 % of his art. ;D
His music is there to discover or not. You act like you're doing us a favor by listening to his music. Like we're all supposed to pat you on the back for trying. I'm glad you're listening to the music, but I'm not going to kiss your butt just because you are.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 27, 2020, 11:46:05 AM
(https://media.tenor.com/images/23b875bff0290d88431de8cb75a161c3/tenor.gif)
I'm not picking a fight, just tired of the antagonism shown towards 71 dB. If he finds Atterberg uninspired, so be it. I enjoyed listening to the Atterberg cycle on cpo years ago, but I see no need to take offense if someone has the opposite reaction.
Quote from: Baron Scarpia on May 27, 2020, 12:04:36 PM
I'm not picking a fight, just tired of the antagonism shown towards 71 dB. If he finds Atterberg uninspired, so be it. I enjoyed listening to the Atterberg cycle on cpo years ago, but I see no need to take offense if someone has the opposite reaction.
I'm with you. It doesn't bother if he has negative reactions to the music, but he just got through saying, in a nutshell, that we should be grateful he's listening to the music in the first-place. I don't agree with this kind of mentality, especially given my own history with this music.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 27, 2020, 12:08:13 PM
I'm with you. It doesn't bother if he has negative reactions to the music, but just got through saying, in a nutshell, that we should be grateful he's listening to the music in the first-place. I don't agree with this kind of mentality, especially given my own history with this music.
He described his reaction to the some music he was listening to and you replied with a personal insult, that he was childish. That is contrary to the spirt, and the rules, of the board.
Quote from: Baron Scarpia on May 27, 2020, 12:13:18 PM
He described his reaction to the some music he was listening to and you replied with a personal insult, that he was childish. That is contrary to the spirt, and the rules, of the board.
Don't be so dramatic, Scarpia. I didn't personally call him a child, I was remarking on what I felt to be childish. If he took great offense to what I said, then I'll make a formal apology, but I didn't mean any harm in what I said.
To 71 dB, sorry for belittling you. Glad you're listening to Atterberg whether you like him or not --- doesn't matter. At least, you listened and that's all that counts.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 27, 2020, 11:57:58 AM
His music is there to discover or not. You act like you're doing us a favor by listening to his music. Like we're all supposed to pat you on the back for trying. I'm glad you're listening to the music, but I'm not going to kiss your butt just because you are.
Quite agree with this. I often see his comments like trying to draw attention and being a little incendiary for some reason with some of his comments. One needs to be more prudent and wise to criticize something.
Quote from: Baron Scarpia on May 27, 2020, 11:35:38 AM
And how is it "unfair?"
Unfair because he gives the impression that everything has to sound like Elgar. If not, it's not good.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 27, 2020, 01:43:23 PM
Unfair because he gives the impression that everything has to sound like Elgar. If not, it's not good.
71 dB was dismissive of Atterberg's third symphony, but you were condescending and belittling of 71 dB personally.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 27, 2020, 01:43:23 PM
Unfair because he gives the impression that everything has to sound like Elgar. If not, it's not good.
Sorry if I made you think that. Atterberg sounding like Elgar or not sounding like Elgar has nothing to do with me liking or disliking the music. How much does Dittersdorf sound like Elgar? How much does Pärt sound like Elgar? How much does Weinberg sound like Elgar? Generally speaking I find very little Elgar in the music of other composers and that's fine because Elgar didn't have the monopoly over great music. I don't know why, but especially the first movement of Atterberg's 1st Symphony gave me Elgarian vibes (but with less vibrant colors) and I was merely stating that especially the 3rd didn't have Elgarian vibes anymore indicating it seems to be a feature of his earliest Symphonies and probably totally gone in the later ones, but I will know better when I have heard them, #4 tomorrow. Okay? :P
I'm feeling like it's too long since I hear any Atterberg or any Elgar...
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 27, 2020, 11:57:58 AM
His music is there to discover or not. You act like you're doing us a favor by listening to his music. Like we're all supposed to pat you on the back for trying. I'm glad you're listening to the music, but I'm not going to kiss your butt just because you are.
I don't think I make a favor to you. I hope I'm doing a favor to
myself by educating myself about a Swedish composer I knew nothing about before. What I mean is you are welcome to follow my journey if you want. I don't expect anyone to kiss my ass or pat me on the back. All I expect is to be allowed to have my own more or less silly impressions of music that is totally new to me.
Quote from: Baron Scarpia on May 27, 2020, 12:04:36 PM
I'm not picking a fight, just tired of the antagonism shown towards 71 dB. If he finds Atterberg uninspired, so be it. I enjoyed listening to the Atterberg cycle on cpo years ago, but I see no need to take offense if someone has the opposite reaction.
Thanks for the support. ;)
I wouldn't say I am totally uninspired. Especially the 2nd Symphony had strong material imo. I was just disappointed with the 3rd, because my expectations were it's at least as good as the 2nd, but I found it weaker. Atterberg still has 6 Symphonies to impress me and theres always non-Symphonic works... ...What I have said about Atterberg is my
initial thoughs.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 27, 2020, 12:30:59 PM
To 71 dB, sorry for belittling you. Glad you're listening to Atterberg whether you like him or not --- doesn't matter. At least, you listened and that's all that counts.
It's okay. These comments of mine are not to be taken too seriously as I am in the
infancy of understanding Atterberg's musical language. None of the first 3 Symphonies have been "bad" imho and the 2nd made me feel Atterberg is pretty good symphonist. ;) Could be I wasn't in the right "mood" while listening to the 3rd and that's why it didn't impress me... ...maybe it's greatness is something I don't yet understand about Atterberg's art? Maybe I need to listen to it 3-5 times to get it?
Please wait til' I have listened to all 9 Symphonies and then you and me will have a better picture of what I think about the composer. Usually I want to hear different kind of works (orchestral, chamber, solo instrument,...) before conclusions.
4TTERBERG:
The fourth Symphony starts with Sibelian vibes and transforms into something more British sounding. The longest movement "Andante" is nice, very movie-music like. It could work as an separate work by itself, an Elegy perhaps? The third movement is so short I barely registered it, but it is an effective contrast to the "cinematic" mood of movement 2. The finale movement didn't have a strong character.
Not a particularly mindblowing Symphony, but I didn't dislike it either. At this point I'm ready to make this prediction: Atterberg won't become one of my TOP composers, but a few selected Symphonies by him could make it into my collection maybe? I hope I like the 5th, as it is coupled with the 2nd on the CPO disc... :P
Have streamed the Cello and Piano Concertos on Spotify. Really loved the Cello Concerto! Mesmerazing and velvety work! The Piano Concerto wasn't as much to my liking. Intrestingly, some parts of the concertos give me Heitor Villa-Lobos vibes and the first movement of the Piano Concerto sounds like a combination of Villa-Lobos and Chopin. ;D How these crazy vibes gets triggered by Atterberg's music is almost the most interesting part of it imho. As you perhaps saw in the purchases thread, I ordered the Cello Concerto disc as my first Atterberg.
Did we lose a couple of days of content from this thread? I posted a question asking if anyone heard any of Atterberg's full operas because I thought he would be a great opera composer given his lyricism and dramatic sensibility? That post is gone.
Quote from: relm1 on June 04, 2020, 05:48:33 AM
Did we lose a couple of days of content from this thread? I posted a question asking if anyone heard any of Atterberg's full operas because I thought he would be a great opera composer given his lyricism and dramatic sensibility? That post is gone.
Yes, we lost A LOT of posts during the crash, relm1. It's pretty much the same scenario that happened the last time the site crashed.
Quote from: 71 dB on June 04, 2020, 04:41:50 AM
Have streamed the Cello and Piano Concertos on Spotify. Really loved the Cello Concerto! Mesmerazing and velvety work! The Piano Concerto wasn't as much to my liking. Intrestingly, some parts of the concertos give me Heitor Villa-Lobos vibes and the first movement of the Piano Concerto sounds like a combination of Villa-Lobos and Chopin. ;D How these crazy vibes gets triggered by Atterberg's music is almost the most interesting part of it imho. As you perhaps saw in the purchases thread, I ordered the Cello Concerto disc as my first Atterberg.
Hmmm, have not heard the Cello Concerto, and don't have the cpo disc, although I do have a recording on BIS featuring Truls Mork. (Boy, that name sounds strange to an english speaker.)
Quote from: Baron Scarpia on June 04, 2020, 06:04:33 AM
Hmmm, have not heard the Cello Concerto, and don't have the cpo disc, although I do have a recording on BIS featuring Truls Mork. (Boy, that name sounds strange to an english speaker.)
His whole name sounds perhaps even stranger to you:
Truls Olaf Otterbech Mørk. In Norway his name is very normal/typical I believe.
Quote from: 71 dB on June 04, 2020, 04:41:50 AM
Have streamed the Cello and Piano Concertos on Spotify. Really loved the Cello Concerto! Mesmerazing and velvety work! The Piano Concerto wasn't as much to my liking. Intrestingly, some parts of the concertos give me Heitor Villa-Lobos vibes and the first movement of the Piano Concerto sounds like a combination of Villa-Lobos and Chopin. ;D How these crazy vibes gets triggered by Atterberg's music is almost the most interesting part of it imho. As you perhaps saw in the purchases thread, I ordered the Cello Concerto disc as my first Atterberg.
Glad you enjoyed the Cello Concerto! It's a marvelous work and one of my favorite concerti for the instrument. Out of curiosity, what recording did you order - Truls Mørk on BIS or Nikolai Schneider on CPO? I've only heard Mørk's recording, which is so excellent that I can't imagine it being bettered!
Quote from: 71 dB on June 04, 2020, 09:02:17 AM
His whole name sounds perhaps even stranger to you: Truls Olaf Otterbech Mørk. In Norway his name is very normal/typical I believe.
What a great name! 8)
Quote from: 71 dB on June 04, 2020, 09:02:17 AM
His whole name sounds perhaps even stranger to you: Truls Olaf Otterbech Mørk. In Norway his name is very normal/typical I believe.
The two middle names sound conventional to my ear, Olaf being stereotypically Scandinavian and Otterbech sounding germanic. But Truls Mork sounds to me like the name of a Star Trek character from a fictional planet.
Quote from: relm1 on June 04, 2020, 05:48:33 AM
Did we lose a couple of days of content from this thread? I posted a question asking if anyone heard any of Atterberg's full operas because I thought he would be a great opera composer given his lyricism and dramatic sensibility? That post is gone.
I found a recent live performance of his
Aladdin on YT, and it's in very good sound quality:
Overture: https://youtu.be/VUGQETNVE2c
Act 1: https://youtu.be/Ps5jOlPGwOI
Act 2: https://youtu.be/FQu7eH8R_P4
Act 3: https://youtu.be/ooPAFqrGgj4
Haven't gotten a chance to sit down and listen to it yet. But yes, I have high hopes for his operatic writing considering the lyricism and drama of his instrumental works!
Quote from: kyjo on June 04, 2020, 11:17:17 AM
Glad you enjoyed the Cello Concerto! It's a marvelous work and one of my favorite concerti for the instrument. Out of curiosity, what recording did you order - Truls Mørk on BIS or Nikolai Schneider on CPO? I've only heard Mørk's recording, which is so excellent that I can't imagine it being bettered!
As you can verity on the "Purchases" thread it was the CPO. Sounded awesome on Spotify.
For all the talk about Symphonies, how was Atterberg as a chamber music composer? I am streaming the Marco Polo disc of his chamber music on Spotify and just finished the Violin Sonata, Op. 27. Unfortunately Atterberg doesn't seem to be a killer composer of chamber music: This Violin Sonata ranks among the worst I remember ever hearing. :P It offers hardly anything to my ears. No beauty. No ugliness. No relaxation. No energy. Just boredom. Sorry, but if you tell me this is a great Violin Sonata I have a bridge to sell you...
Valse monotone in C Major... ;D
Quote from: 71 dB on June 06, 2020, 05:47:38 AM
For all the talk about Symphonies, how was Atterberg as a chamber music composer? I am streaming the Marco Polo disc of his chamber music on Spotify and just finished the Violin Sonata, Op. 27. Unfortunately Atterberg doesn't seem to be a killer composer of chamber music: This Violin Sonata ranks among the worst I remember ever hearing. :P It offers hardly anything to my ears. No beauty. No ugliness. No relaxation. No energy. Just boredom. Sorry, but if you tell me this is a great Violin Sonata I have a bridge to sell you...
Valse monotone in C Major... ;D
The Violin Sonata also exists in a version for cello (and for horn!) which I've heard, and it's hardly one of his most inspired works, though the only available recording of the cello version isn't the greatest. As far as his other chamber works go, his 3rd string quartet is very good; it's available on a CPO album coupled with the slightly less convincing 2nd quartet as well as a quartet by Rangström. I know Cesar and Jeffrey think quite highly of the Piano Quintet (which is an arrangement of his 6th Symphony), but I still haven't gotten 'round to listening to it... ::)
Quote from: kyjo on June 06, 2020, 01:32:45 PM
The Violin Sonata also exists in a version for cello (and for horn!) which I've heard, and it's hardly one of his most inspired works, though the only available recording of the cello version isn't the greatest. As far as his other chamber works go, his 3rd string quartet is very good; it's available on a CPO album coupled with the slightly less convincing 2nd quartet as well as a quartet by Rangström. I know Cesar and Jeffrey think quite highly of the Piano Quintet (which is an arrangement of his 6th Symphony), but I still haven't gotten 'round to listening to it... ::)
Well I streamed the Piano Quintet and the second movement "Adagio" works very nicely arranged this way. The First movement is nice too, but the third movement is what it is...joke as stated
Quote from: kyjo on June 04, 2020, 11:21:15 AM
I found a recent live performance of his Aladdin on YT, and it's in very good sound quality:
Overture: https://youtu.be/VUGQETNVE2c
Act 1: https://youtu.be/Ps5jOlPGwOI
Act 2: https://youtu.be/FQu7eH8R_P4
Act 3: https://youtu.be/ooPAFqrGgj4
Haven't gotten a chance to sit down and listen to it yet. But yes, I have high hopes for his operatic writing considering the lyricism and drama of his instrumental works!
Thank you so much for posting this. Today I listened to this two plus hour work in its entirety and its so gorgeous! I highly recommend others explore Atterberg's operatic works too. As one would expect, the music is exotic and full of late romantic orientalism (think Rimsky-Korsakov's "The Golden Cockerel") plus Puccini lyricism. The work isn't particularly deep but is extremely gorgeous and dramatic. Anyone who loves Atterberg will find much to adore here. The performance of kyjo's link is fantastic and CD worthy. The instrumentation is luxurious and includes a large romantic orchestra including off stage brass, harp, piano, celesta plus chorus, and vocalists. The music is exciting, dramatic, and theatrical. I highly recommend others explore this!
Quote from: relm1 on June 07, 2020, 04:37:07 PM
Thank you so much for posting this. Today I listened to this two plus hour work in its entirety and its so gorgeous! I highly recommend others explore Atterberg's operatic works too. As one would expect, the music is exotic and full of late romantic orientalism (think Rimsky-Korsakov's "The Golden Cockerel") plus Puccini lyricism. The work isn't particularly deep but is extremely gorgeous and dramatic. Anyone who loves Atterberg will find much to adore here. The performance of kyjo's link is fantastic and CD worthy. The instrumentation is luxurious and includes a large romantic orchestra including off stage brass, harp, piano, celesta plus chorus, and vocalists. The music is exciting, dramatic, and theatrical. I highly recommend others explore this!
Awesome, thanks for reporting back! I'll definitely give it a listen soon. We can only hope for commercial recordings of his six operas in the not-too-distant future, not to mention his ballet
Per Svinaherde and multiple choral-orchestral works including a Requiem...
(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/DACOCD836.jpg)
Listening to the delightful and witty Suite Barocco on Atterberg's birthday. Both performing and recording are like a warm gossamer. Very velvety in sound.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on December 12, 2020, 04:35:24 PM
(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/DACOCD836.jpg)
Listening to the delightful and witty Suite Barocco on Atterberg's birthday. Both performing and recording are like a warm gossamer. Very velvety in sound.
A truly lovely work, sparkling in the fast movements and soulfully lyrical in the slow ones. That whole disc is a treasure (though perhaps the CPO recording of the Sinfonia for Strings is unbeatable).
Quote from: kyjo on December 13, 2020, 08:58:50 AM
A truly lovely work, sparkling in the fast movements and soulfully lyrical in the slow ones. That whole disc is a treasure (though perhaps the CPO recording of the Sinfonia for Strings is unbeatable).
Yes, the Sinfonia for strings receives a more engaging performance than this one.
Anyone listening to this composer lately? I just checked out his 1st symphony. I hate to dredge this up after reading a bit of vitriol on the previous two pages of the thread, but I was indeed reminded of Elgar in places :laugh:
Quote from: vers la flamme on September 25, 2022, 07:53:33 AM
Anyone listening to this composer lately? I just checked out his 1st symphony. I hate to dredge this up after reading a bit of vitriol on the previous two pages of the thread, but I was indeed reminded of Elgar in places :laugh:
Yes, I think highly of his music. My favourites are symphonies 2,3 'West Coast Pictures',5 'Funebre' and 8 which has a beautiful slow movement.
Quote from: vandermolen on September 25, 2022, 10:41:19 PM
Yes, I think highly of his music. My favourites are symphonies 2,3 'West Coast Pictures',5 'Funebre' and 8 which has a beautiful slow movement.
Agree with your list - also add the concerti and Suite No. 3 for Violin, Viola, and strings is a favorite. Really all the symphonies are fine (maybe No. 9 excepted but I haven't heard it in a while) but Jeffrey's list are highlights.
Quote from: vers la flamme on September 25, 2022, 07:53:33 AM
Anyone listening to this composer lately? I just checked out his 1st symphony. I hate to dredge this up after reading a bit of vitriol on the previous two pages of the thread, but I was indeed reminded of Elgar in places :laugh:
My memory of the music (having listened years ago) is that it is not "groundbreaking" but that it reflects wonderful melodic and harmonic invention, and skillful use of the orchestra (orchestration). Perhaps the music could remind someone of early Sibelius, or less neurotic Brahms.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on September 26, 2022, 07:18:53 AM
My memory of the music (having listened years ago) is that it is not "groundbreaking" but that it reflects wonderful melodic and harmonic invention, and skillful use of the orchestra (orchestration). Perhaps the music could remind someone of early Sibelius, or less neurotic Brahms.
Love the 'neurotic Brahms' comment!
Quote from: vandermolen on September 26, 2022, 07:58:19 AM
Love the 'neurotic Brahms' comment!
Mind you, Brahms is my favorite composer. :)
(* chortle *)
Finally got my hands on the CPO complete symphonies box! Starting off with No. 3 cuz that's what I fancy starting with and wow this is stunningly gorgeous music! Feels like more of it is in B minor than the stated home key of D major. The structure bears comparison with the mighty Bax 6 too, with two 9-10-minute movements followed by a finale almost twice that.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on September 26, 2022, 09:29:22 AMBrahms is my favorite composer.
One can have much worse favorites. :D
Quote from: Maestro267 on December 03, 2022, 09:48:07 AMFinally got my hands on the CPO complete symphonies box! Starting off with No. 3 cuz that's what I fancy starting with and wow this is stunningly gorgeous music! Feels like more of it is in B minor than the stated home key of D major. The structure bears comparison with the mighty Bax 6 too, with two 9-10-minute movements followed by a finale almost twice that.
Is this your first time hearing any of Atterberg's music? I'm quite surprised, considering you listen to a wide range of lesser-known 20th century symphonic works. Anyway, welcome to the wonderful world of Atterberg! :D
Quote from: Florestan on December 03, 2022, 12:35:19 PMOne can have much worse favorites. :D
Might I ask if you've listened to any of Atterberg's music, Andrei? I'd think you'd enjoy it very much, but I could be wrong of course. 8)
Quote from: Spotted Horses on September 26, 2022, 07:18:53 AMMy memory of the music (having listened years ago) is that it is not "groundbreaking" but that it reflects wonderful melodic and harmonic invention, and skillful use of the orchestra (orchestration). Perhaps the music could remind someone of early Sibelius, or less neurotic Brahms.
Give me music of wonderful melodic/harmonic invention and skillful orchestration over "groundbreaking" music any day! :) I agree about the stylistic connection with early Sibelius, but I don't hear any Brahms in Atterberg's music. R. Strauss' influence pops up from time to time as well, but overall Atterberg is his own man and has an instantly recognizable idiom based in the fertile soil of Swedish folk music.
Quote from: kyjo on December 03, 2022, 02:14:24 PMIs this your first time hearing any of Atterberg's music? I'm quite surprised, considering you listen to a wide range of lesser-known 20th century symphonic works. Anyway, welcome to the wonderful world of Atterberg! :D
Apart from the odd preview here and there, yes. I feel like I've barely scratched the surface of lesser-known 20th century symphonic works. This set has been on my wishlist for a while, so I'm glad to have it in my collection at last.
Decided to start my day with the Ninth Symphony.
Quote from: Maestro267 on December 03, 2022, 11:53:46 PMApart from the odd preview here and there, yes. I feel like I've barely scratched the surface of lesser-known 20th century symphonic works. This set has been on my wishlist for a while, so I'm glad to have it in my collection at last.
Decided to start my day with the Ninth Symphony.
I don't like No.9 much.
I'd recommend 2,3,5 and 8 (slow movement) 5 'Funebre' and 3 'West Coast Pictures' are my favourites.
Currently listening to Atterberg's Symphony No. 2. It's interesting to note that it was initially performed with just the opening two movements, and I can fully see how that would work. The way the 2nd movement starts with the same note (and dynamic) that the first movement ended with gives it a sense of *attacca*, while the ending of the 2nd movement does have a sense of finality to it. So I do need to try not to listen to it as a two-movement symphony with a third tacked on to the end.
Quote from: Maestro267 on January 13, 2023, 12:25:15 PMCurrently listening to Atterberg's Symphony No. 2. It's interesting to note that it was initially performed with just the opening two movements, and I can fully see how that would work. The way the 2nd movement starts with the same note (and dynamic) that the first movement ended with gives it a sense of *attacca*, while the ending of the 2nd movement does have a sense of finality to it. So I do need to try not to listen to it as a two-movement symphony with a third tacked on to the end.
That is interesting. I wonder what other works are like that where the composer considered it completed but after it was performed realized another movement that is radically different was needed. For example, sure there are lots of examples of major revisions such as Sibelius and his No. 5 where the first version is quite different from the final version but that is an evolution of the piece rather than an entirely new movement was added after the composer considered it already complete.
Quote from: relm1 on January 14, 2023, 06:07:13 AMThat is interesting. I wonder what other works are like that where the composer considered it completed but after it was performed realized another movement that is radically different was needed. For example, sure there are lots of examples of major revisions such as Sibelius and his No. 5 where the first version is quite different from the final version but that is an evolution of the piece rather than an entirely new movement was added after the composer considered it already complete.
The beautiful and haunting 'Epilogue' to Frank Bridge's war-torn Cello Concerto 'Oration' was apparently an afterthought.
Quote from: Maestro267 on January 13, 2023, 12:25:15 PMCurrently listening to Atterberg's Symphony No. 2. It's interesting to note that it was initially performed with just the opening two movements, and I can fully see how that would work. The way the 2nd movement starts with the same note (and dynamic) that the first movement ended with gives it a sense of *attacca*, while the ending of the 2nd movement does have a sense of finality to it. So I do need to try not to listen to it as a two-movement symphony with a third tacked on to the end.
Even though the piece works perfectly well ending with the second movement and its majestic conclusion, I'm glad Atterberg later added the third movement, which is tremendously exciting and thematically memorable.
Quote from: vandermolen on January 14, 2023, 10:39:28 AMThe beautiful and haunting 'Epilogue' to Frank Bridge's war-torn Cello Concerto 'Oration' was apparently an afterthought.
Well, I'm sure glad Bridge had that afterthought, because what a profoundly moving Epilogue it is!
Quote from: kyjo on January 14, 2023, 01:03:55 PMEven though the piece works perfectly well ending with the second movement and its majestic conclusion, I'm glad Atterberg later added the third movement, which is tremendously exciting and thematically memorable.
Oh definitely! I've had the end of the symphony stuck in my head for days since this listen. I'm really growing to love pretty much all of these symphonies now they're getting their 2nd or 3rd listens.
Enjoying the first two symphonies of Atterberg this past week. Anyone else listening?
Quote from: vers la flamme on March 31, 2023, 02:04:56 PMEnjoying the first two symphonies of Atterberg this past week. Anyone else listening?
Which cycle do you prefer: Jarvi or Ari?
Quote from: vers la flamme on March 31, 2023, 02:04:56 PMEnjoying the first two symphonies of Atterberg this past week. Anyone else listening?
Great to hear! I've recently come to regard the First as one of Atterberg's very finest and most satisfying efforts in the genre (though, of course, I love all of them ;)). The Brahmsian echoes in the second subject of the first movement notwithstanding, it's an entirely characteristic and personal work which stands as a mightily impressive symphonic debut. It's also one of his few symphonies (besides the 8th) to contain a full-fledged scherzo, and what a thrilling, vigorous one it is too! I would not be surprised if John Williams had somehow heard it before writing a few of his film scores. And the slow introduction to the finale, almost neo-Baroque in its aria-like simplicity, is a touchingly poignant and unique moment in Atterberg's output.
And I haven't even mentioned the Second Symphony yet, whose magnificent slow movement is worth the price of admission alone! Its instantly memorable, long-breathed main theme will stay with you for days. I could go on....!
Quote from: lordlance on March 31, 2023, 07:49:21 PMWhich cycle do you prefer: Jarvi or Ari?
Haven't heard any full cycle; all I have is two discs of the Rasilainen cycle on CPO, and it sounds great to me. I'm sure I'd also like the Järvi as I'm a big fan of his.
@kyjo, I also like the scherzo of the first. The main thing that caught my ear at first was Atterberg's writing for the low strings. He gives them some very beautiful melodies, especially in the first movement.
Isn't Jarvi's Atterberg controversial because of speedy tempos? It grabs your attention as an alternative take, but if his readings were all we had we'd think less of the music than we do, I feel. OTOH, there are times I find Rasilainen just too slow and deliberate. My favored Atterberg lineup still the following:
Symphony 1 - Westerberg (Sterling)
Symphony 2 - Westerberg (Swedish Society Discofil - coupled with an incomparable Suite No.2)
Symphony 3 - Ehrling (Caprice)
Symphony 4 - Rasilainen (CPO)
Symphony 5 - Westerberg (Musica Sueciae)
Symphony 6 - Rasilainen (CPO)
Symphony 7 - Jurowski (Sterling)
Symphony 8 - Jurowski (Sterling)
Symphony 9 - Rasilainen (CPO)
Cello Concerto - Thomas-Mifune (Koch - an incomparable performance in my judgment, coupled with the
only recording of the great Cello Sonata).
Violin Concerto - Wallin (CPO)
Piano Concerto - Franklin-Smith (Sterling)
Quote from: J on April 02, 2023, 03:55:21 PMIsn't Jarvi's Atterberg controversial because of speedy tempos?
Thanks for this thoughtful survey! I need to quickly make acquaintance with the Sterling recordings. I personally have a hard time forgiving Jarvi for the horrible live performance of 3, with percussion missing or inaudible in the finale. But he is good at some of the more straightforward neoclassical pieces like No. 4.
Speaking of quite fast, have you heard the Toscanini recording of 6?
Quote from: J on April 02, 2023, 03:55:21 PMIsn't Jarvi's Atterberg controversial because of speedy tempos? It grabs your attention as an alternative take, but if his readings were all we had we'd think less of the music than we do, I feel. OTOH, there are times I find Rasilainen just too slow and deliberate. My favored Atterberg lineup still the following:
Symphon 1 - Westerberg (Sterling)
Symphony 2 - Westerberg (Swedish Society Discofil - coupled with an incomparable Suite No.2)
Symphony 3 - Ehrling (Caprice)
Symphony 4 - Rasilainen (CPO)
Symphony 5 - Westerberg (Musica Sueciae)
Symphony 6 - Rasilainen (CPO)
Symphony 7 - Jurowski (Sterling)
Symphony 8 - Jurowski (Sterling)
Symphony 9 - Rasilainen (CPO)
Cello Concerto - Thomas-Mifune (Koch - an incomparable performance in my judgment, coupled with the
only recording of the great Cello Sonata).
Violin Concerto - Wallin (CPO)
Piano Concerto - Franklin-Smith (Sterling)
Nice list! I think the only things I couldn't find streaming are the Swedish Society Discofil disc and the Koch disc.
Looking around for the Ehrling recording on Qobuz, I stumbled on this very interesting set of Caprice recordings:
(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/3a/wh/vqjy7h9pbwh3a_600.jpg)
https://open.qobuz.com/album/vqjy7h9pbwh3a
This includes the Atterberg Symphony No. 3 conducted by Ehrling and a whole bunch of other great orchestral music by Swedish composers from Berwald to Pettersson for $9.
Quote from: J on April 02, 2023, 03:55:21 PMIsn't Jarvi's Atterberg controversial because of speedy tempos? It grabs your attention as an alternative take, but if his readings were all we had we'd think less of the music than we do, I feel. OTOH, there are times I find Rasilainen just too slow and deliberate. My favored Atterberg lineup still the following:
Symphon 1 - Westerberg (Sterling)
Symphony 2 - Westerberg (Swedish Society Discofil - coupled with an incomparable Suite No.2)
Symphony 3 - Ehrling (Caprice)
Symphony 4 - Rasilainen (CPO)
Symphony 5 - Westerberg (Musica Sueciae)
Symphony 6 - Rasilainen (CPO)
Symphony 7 - Jurowski (Sterling)
Symphony 8 - Jurowski (Sterling)
Symphony 9 - Rasilainen (CPO)
Cello Concerto - Thomas-Mifune (Koch - an incomparable performance in my judgment, coupled with the
only recording of the great Cello Sonata).
Violin Concerto - Wallin (CPO)
Piano Concerto - Franklin-Smith (Sterling)
Jarvi's issue isn't so much the tempo but the phoned in performance. It reeked of not much interest in the repertoire, an example of which was the speedy tempo. My bet is there were no rehearsals. He showed up and said start recording. They read through it maybe a correction then moved on. Not really diving in deep to the music. and it clearly showed. The best recordings in this cycle were decades old.
Quote from: J on April 02, 2023, 03:55:21 PMIsn't Jarvi's Atterberg controversial because of speedy tempos? It grabs your attention as an alternative take, but if his readings were all we had we'd think less of the music than we do, I feel. OTOH, there are times I find Rasilainen just too slow and deliberate. My favored Atterberg lineup still the following:
Symphony 1 - Westerberg (Sterling)
Symphony 2 - Westerberg (Swedish Society Discofil - coupled with an incomparable Suite No.2)
Symphony 3 - Ehrling (Caprice)
Symphony 4 - Rasilainen (CPO)
Symphony 5 - Westerberg (Musica Sueciae)
Symphony 6 - Rasilainen (CPO)
Symphony 7 - Jurowski (Sterling)
Symphony 8 - Jurowski (Sterling)
Symphony 9 - Rasilainen (CPO)
Cello Concerto - Thomas-Mifune (Koch - an incomparable performance in my judgment, coupled with the
only recording of the great Cello Sonata).
Violin Concerto - Wallin (CPO)
Piano Concerto - Franklin-Smith (Sterling)
Thanks for this list! I need to familiarize myself with more of the non-Rasilainen recordings of the symphonies. I wish I could find the Thomas-Mifune recording of the Cello Concerto on YT or Spotify, but alas I cannot. Not a huge deal though, as I find the Truls Mork (BIS) and Jakob Koranyi (YT) recordings to be quite satisfying.
Quote from: J on April 02, 2023, 03:55:21 PMIsn't Jarvi's Atterberg controversial because of speedy tempos? It grabs your attention as an alternative take, but if his readings were all we had we'd think less of the music than we do, I feel. OTOH, there are times I find Rasilainen just too slow and deliberate. My favored Atterberg lineup still the following:
Symphony 1 - Westerberg (Sterling)
Symphony 2 - Westerberg (Swedish Society Discofil - coupled with an incomparable Suite No.2)
Symphony 3 - Ehrling (Caprice)
Symphony 4 - Rasilainen (CPO)
Symphony 5 - Westerberg (Musica Sueciae)
Symphony 6 - Rasilainen (CPO)
Symphony 7 - Jurowski (Sterling)
Symphony 8 - Jurowski (Sterling)
Symphony 9 - Rasilainen (CPO)
Cello Concerto - Thomas-Mifune (Koch - an incomparable performance in my judgment, coupled with the
only recording of the great Cello Sonata).
Violin Concerto - Wallin (CPO)
Piano Concerto - Franklin-Smith (Sterling)
Very much agree with this list although I'm less familiar with the concertos. I agree with relm 1 that the best recordings are decades old, thinking particularly of Ehrling's recording of Symphony No.3 'West Coast Pictures' and Westerberg's of Symphony No. 2 and 5 'Funebre'. I also like the Sterling recording of symphonies 7 and 8.
The resurrection of this thread has inspired me to go on another run of the Rasilainen symphony cycle. At least I think it's going to be a run. Just done Nos. 1 & 2. The 2nd is probably my favourite of the entire cycle, though No. 3 runs it close. The ending of the finale is absolutely stunning, the way the V cadence modulates.
Quote from: Maestro267 on April 03, 2023, 06:15:28 AMThe resurrection of this thread has inspired me to go on another run of the Rasilainen symphony cycle. At least I think it's going to be a run. Just done Nos. 1 & 2. The 2nd is probably my favourite of the entire cycle, though No. 3 runs it close. The ending of the finale is absolutely stunning, the way the V cadence modulates.
Agree about the inspiriting end of the 3rd Symphony.
I was referring to the finale of No. 2 there but that of No. 3 is equally stunning.
I'm not a good comparative listener - once I find a set (I particularly favour boxes, since I split discs up at random) that I like I tend to stick with it since there are always so many demands on time, space and wallet. Not that these days I can locate most of them without the aid of a torch and a sturdy rope. For me, Rasilainen (CPO) does the business in Atterberg, as does Dausgaard in Langgaard (Dacapo), Masur in Liszt (EMI), Ashkenazy in Rachmaninov (Decca), Kempe in Strauss (EMI), Blomstedt in Hindemith (Decca), Stadlmair in Raff (Tudor), Britten in Britten (Decca), Serebrier in Glazunov (Warner) and Griffiths in Ries (CPO), etc. If I started accumulating multiple recordings the bloody floor would collapse and possibly wipe out the downstairs neighbours (which, given the noise that they generate, would be a mercy killing)...
::)
Quote from: vers la flamme on March 31, 2023, 02:04:56 PMEnjoying the first two symphonies of Atterberg this past week. Anyone else listening?
I like No.2 very much although 3 and 5 remain my favourites.
Quote from: vandermolen on April 04, 2023, 10:11:26 AMI like No.2 very much although 3 and 5 remain my favourites.
Atterberg is an absolute pleasure, along with Schreker and Korngold. Lush, melodic and orchestrated with perfection. Again, one of those composers who never appears in the concert hall but seems destined to remain in the realms of recordings (Sinding, Holbrooke, Hindemith, Castelnuovo-Tedesco, Alfven, Chadwick, Stanford, Casella and Bliss also come to mind). Programming is just so dull today that it's a miracle that people turn up to hear anything at all...
::)
People are so mindless they're perfectly satisfied with hearing Beethoven whatever for the 503940939384th time.
Quote from: Maestro267 on April 06, 2023, 07:46:48 AMPeople are so mindless they're perfectly satisfied with hearing Beethoven whatever for the 503940939384th time.
I think this is not a reflection of what I see in concert halls here in Texas (where I imagine most concertgoers are significantly more conservative than in Europe - although we are getting a Casella symphony live next year).
Many people who go to concerts fit that description. "Oh, I love Beethoven's Sixth, let's go!"
And there are many repertoire staples where I fit that description, too. The experience of seeing a work live is so much different from hearing it on recording that it is very frequently worth reacquainting yourself with a warhorse.
But many people at concerts here are those who don't necessarily listen to classical music day in, day out, or have a wide diet of music, and see going to the symphony as an elevated occasion. A social occasion or like a trip to the art gallery. This of course is the original mode of concertgoing from when public classical subscription concerts and operas began in the 1700s. For these people, a name like Beethoven's is a stamp of quality.
Finally, I think that orchestras should be doing significantly more work to reach out to non-concertgoers. People who don't know yet that they like classical music. One way to do this, of course, is to program great music everyone will love. Another way, though, is to program music that non-concertgoers can immediately relate to. In my area, 30-40% of the population is from Latin America. I think Texas orchestras should be constantly programming Revueltas, Ponce, Castellanos, Villa-Lobos, Piazzolla, Guarnieri, G.L. Frank, Marquez, Gabriela Ortiz, Sierra, etc. In other areas, with other groups of people, it would be different. I like Atterberg but I imagine his music even today would do better in Scandinavia than some other places.
Sorry, hope this is not rude, you just uncorked a whole lot of thoughts!
Quote from: Maestro267 on April 06, 2023, 07:46:48 AMPeople are so mindless they're perfectly satisfied with hearing Beethoven whatever for the 503940939384th time.
There should be a moratorium on Bach, Handel, Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms and several other suspects in order to free up programmes for so much other great music. It will never happen of course as concert promoters are generally ignorant of the wider repertoire and unwilling to take any informed initiative, let alone introduce audiences to unjustly neglected repertoire. As I mentioned, even giants such as Tchaikovsky, Rimsky and Dvorak barely get a look in now except for "Romeo and Juliet", "Scheherazade" and "The New World". At the Barbican they occasionally have "immersive" weekends, but do I really want to immerse myself in Harrison Birtwistle? I'd rather immerse myself in Schreker, Korngold, Sullivan or Glazunov thanks. Truly a bloody dismal state of affairs...
::)
Quote from: Brian on April 06, 2023, 08:42:17 AMa name like Beethoven's is a stamp of quality.
Yep, but just how much more do we really need either live or in recordings at the expense of an alternative symphony, concerto, overture, string quartet or piano sonata? When I was at University in Manchester in the 1980s I wrote the programme notes for the Lindsay Quartet's Dvorak concert cycle and used to make a point of always mentioning that "other chamber works are available"...
;)
Continued with my symphony run today with Nos. 3-5.
Quote from: Maestro267 on April 06, 2023, 11:32:52 AMContinued with my symphony run today with Nos. 3-5.
Brilliant, keep going! There's nothing worth watching on television anyway. I'm currently stuck on Schreker, Bax and Glazunov - quite randomly...
;D
Quote from: Brian on April 06, 2023, 08:42:17 AMMany people who go to concerts fit that description. "Oh, I love Beethoven's Sixth, let's go!"
Incredible as it may seem, lots of people love Beethoven's music.
QuoteAnd there are many repertoire staples where I fit that description, too. The experience of seeing a work live is so much different from hearing it on recording that it is very frequently worth reacquainting yourself with a warhorse.
Good point.
Quote from: Brian on April 06, 2023, 08:42:17 AMBut many people at concerts here are those who don't necessarily listen to classical music day in, day out, or have a wide diet of music, and see going to the symphony as an elevated occasion. A social occasion or like a trip to the art gallery. This of course is the original mode of concertgoing from when public classical subscription concerts and operas began in the 1700s. For these people, a name like Beethoven's is a stamp of quality.
This, too.
The irony is that this type of concertgoer, not particularly attached to any composer, is probably more likely to go to an Atterberg concert than a Beethoven devotee whose musical horizon doesn't extend too far beyond 1827.
Quote from: Albion on April 06, 2023, 08:57:08 AMhow much more do we really need either live or in recordings at the expense of an alternative symphony, concerto, overture, string quartet or piano sonata?
The live concerts are indeed problematic* but when it comes to recordings, there is no dearth of non-Beethoven (and generally non-canonical) symphonies, concertos, overtures, string quartets and piano sonatas. Actually, there are some recording companies that have done a splendid job in this respect.
*although given the financial aspect, maybe not so problematic after all. Orchestras worldwide, with few exceptions, are already struggling to survive financially; cutting one of their main source of revenues by putting a moratorium on Beethoven, Mozart and Brahms is not even an option. And anyway, I don't quite understand why promoting non-canonical quality should involve prohibiting canonical quality.
So given the opportunity to program an Atterberg Symphony with some major European or American Orchestra which one might grab an audience most readily?
I'd have to say either No.3 or No.6.
No. 6 has the whole Columbia competition story behind it so it's got marketing value there.
Concluding my cycle now with only my second listen to No. 9. It's not my favourite. I find it harder to follow than the other symphonies, largely because it's in one giant span, and the text is in a language I don't understand as well as other foreign languages I've heard in classical music more often.
Quote from: J on April 07, 2023, 10:20:13 PMSo given the opportunity to program an Atterberg Symphony with some major European or American Orchestra which one might grab an audience most readily?
I'd have to say either No.3 or No.6.
This might be sacrilege but I have thought/mused about programming the finale of 3 by itself. On a "Summer Night" type program. Something like this:
Kodaly - Summer Night
Berlioz - Les nuits d'ete
(intermission)
Mendelssohn - A Midsummer Night's Dream overture
Atterberg - Summer Night from Symphony No. 3
Also, just found this interesting MusicWeb review of CPO's 3 and 6 coupling, by an author who had gotten the chance to meet and discuss the music with Atterberg himself, which offers additional insight:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2001/jan01/atterberg.htm
EDIT: Just finished reading that linked MW piece...wow, I had never, ever caught that big Schubert quote before! Time to listen to the symphony again!
Quote from: Maestro267 on April 08, 2023, 03:05:02 AMNo. 6 has the whole Columbia competition story behind it so it's got marketing value there.
Concluding my cycle now with only my second listen to No. 9. It's not my favourite. I find it harder to follow than the other symphonies, largely because it's in one giant span, and the text is in a language I don't understand as well as other foreign languages I've heard in classical music more often.
I hardly ever listen to No.9.
Quote from: Brian on April 08, 2023, 10:44:37 AMThis might be sacrilege but I have thought/mused about programming the finale of 3 by itself. On a "Summer Night" type program. Something like this:
Kodaly - Summer Night
Berlioz - Les nuits d'ete
(intermission)
Mendelssohn - A Midsummer Night's Dream overture
Atterberg - Summer Night from Symphony No. 3
Also, just found this interesting MusicWeb review of CPO's 3 and 6 coupling, by an author who had gotten the chance to meet and discuss the music with Atterberg himself, which offers additional insight:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2001/jan01/atterberg.htm
EDIT: Just finished reading that linked MW piece...wow, I had never, ever caught that big Schubert quote before! Time to listen to the symphony again!
Quote from: vandermolen on April 08, 2023, 11:15:27 AMI hardly ever listen to No.9.
Nor I, - but would still very much like to hear Atterberg's Requiem. Has it likely been looked over by CPO and/or Chandos and deemed unworthy of a recording?
I was first made aware of that whole Schubert competition by Franz Schmidt's 3rd Symphony, another entrant (and regional winner I think?) in said competition. Interestingly, the runner-up of the England region was...the orchestral Part One of Havergal Brian's Symphony No. 1.
CPO did it again! I thought the releases featuring Atterbeg were over, but fortunately I was wrong. Looking forward to this new release! Supposedly it'll be issued the next month.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 24, 2023, 09:32:07 PMCPO did it again! I thought the releases featuring Atterbeg were over, but fortunately I was wrong. Looking forward to this new release! Supposedly it'll be issued the next month.
Great to see you're back, Cesar!
I haven't listened to this particular opera by Atterberg, I'll check it out.
Wow, that looks cool!
Oh you just know that's going to be good. Instabuy.
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on May 24, 2023, 11:31:51 PMGreat to see you're back, Cesar!
I haven't listened to this particular opera by Atterberg, I'll check it out.
Thanks, Ilaria! Yes, this is definitely a must-listen for me as well.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 24, 2023, 09:32:07 PMCPO did it again! I thought the releases featuring Atterbeg were over, but fortunately I was wrong. Looking forward to this new release! Supposedly it'll be issued the next month.
Wonderful news! I was beginning to wonder how long it would be before we'd hear any of his operas. Considering what a great melodic gift Atterberg had, I would suppose his vocal writing would be quite beautiful!
Quote from: kyjo on May 25, 2023, 07:39:53 PMWonderful news! I was beginning to wonder how long it would be before we'd hear any of his operas. Considering what a great melodic gift Atterberg had, I would suppose his vocal writing would be quite beautiful!
I heard one of the operas on youtube, can't remember which one it was but it didn't disappoint. It was exactly what you'd want from this composer. Lyrical, evocative, imaginative, and finely crafted.
Was reading on Wikipedia that Atterberg composed a Requiem for soloists, chorus and orchestra, op. 8 (1914), among other enticing compositions: choral works (Järnbäraland, op. 16; Das Lied, op. 25; Sångens land, op. 32); incidental music (Der Sturm, op. 18; Turandot; Antonius und Kleopatra); ballets (Per Svinaherde, op. 9; De fåvitska jungfrurna, op. 17). There must be some stunning music on all or most of those works, so CPO, Capriccio, Chandos, BIS, Hänssler: go to the rescue!
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on October 07, 2023, 05:46:56 PMWas reading on Wikipedia ...
Yes, from the first half of his career, mostly:
Requiem, op.8, solo vv, chorus, orch, 1914;
Järnbäraland, op.16, solo vv, chorus, orch, 1919;
Sången, op.25, solo vv, chorus ad lib, orch, 1925;
Sångens land, op.32, solo vv, chorus ad lib, orch, 1928
Järnbäraland, op.16, solo vv, chorus, orch, 1919:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2Lmeykbf4g
A mesmerizing YouTube performance of probably Atterberg's most gorgeous creation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9_jouKfyb8
Quote from: J on December 26, 2023, 01:58:53 PMA mesmerizing YouTube performance of probably Atterberg's most gorgeous creation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9_jouKfyb8
"This video isn't available anymore"
Ah yes, Atterberg's masterpiece Den här videon är inte tillgänglig längre
The only works I've seen that appear on live performances on YouTube are three of his concertos (cello, horn and piano, respectively):
Given the grandiosity and gorgeousness of the symphonies, I wonder why no orchestras have performed them and uploaded the videos of the concerts.
Yeah I would've thought this year would've been the year for an Atterberg revival, even a small one, it being the 50th anniversary of his death and all.
Yesterday I finished my traversal of his symphonies with the 9th 'Sinfonia visionaria'. I was curious to hear it again to find out if my perception was going to be more positive or negative this time. First of all, the piece in question has a form more like a cantata than a proper symphony, so we should be prepared to judge it differently and expect another sort of development of ideas (at least it worked in my experience). Atterberg took inspiration from an ancient nordic legend referring to how evil will lead the world to destruction, so accordingly the climate of the piece resembles a dark, brooding, yet somewhat austere nature/demeanor. Atterberg disliked atonality and dodecaphony, so he used a twelve-tone motive to evoke evil (very clever) and a more dissonant language overall, but not all the piece goes on that line and it maintains tonal elements along its duration. I consider that he partly succeeded at recreating a fatalistic argument with the human voices and the orchestra imprinting sinister, mysterious passages, but somehow the music doesn't reach significative or crucial moments where one says "wow, that was spectacular" and there were not instances with a satisfying tautness-relaxation contrast. I was expecting several real powerful moments, but they never materialized properly.
The recording I listened to was that on Chandos with Järvi et al. It helped that it's a quicker rendition than the CPO one under Rasilainen (34 min. vs 40 min.). Well, having said that, I must say that the work grew on me, but it does have its flaws.
After this revisitation, my order of preference of all his symphonies is like this:
3, 5, 2, 6, 1, 8, for strings, 7, 4 and 9.
I remember having said that I had lost a little of interest in he 3rd and I think it had to do with listening to the Caprice recording which I find a little underwhelming. Listening to the CPO recording, my love for that stellar creation has grown again and remains alive in my dearest preferences.
Did Howard Shore know the Symphony No. 3 by Atterberg when he wrote one of the motives/tunes for his film The Lord of the Rings?
The motif in question at 14:25 mark in the 3rd movement of that symphony:
Practically the same motif, but with different harmony at 0:40 mark:
Or didn't Atterberg write it and he borrowed it from Swedish folk songs?
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 25, 2025, 08:19:26 PMDid Howard Shore know the Symphony No. 3 by Atterberg when he wrote one of the motives/tunes for his film The Lord of the Rings?
The motif in question at 14:25 mark in the 3rd movement of that symphony:
Practically the same motif, but with different harmony at 0:40 mark:
Or didn't Atterberg write it and he borrowed it from Swedish folk songs?
Interesting resemblance! Would have to listen to the entire work to see if that phrase evolves from something else, or just appears for the first time there - he seems to make much of it from that point though.
I can not remember where I read this but there is an interesting story of Rachard Danielpour's Anima Mundi.
He thought he came up with a great original idea in one of the movements. After the premier he was approached by several members of the audience on how they thought it was neat that he quoted Borodin's In the Steppes of Asia. He checked it out and was stunned. He had no idea that he quoted Borodin :o
Quote from: krummholz on June 26, 2025, 05:10:23 AMInteresting resemblance! Would have to listen to the entire work to see if that phrase evolves from something else, or just appears for the first time there - he seems to make much of it from that point though.
It would be helpful, but IIRC, that motif just appears from that part on.
Quote from: arpeggio on June 26, 2025, 01:28:41 PMI can not remember where I read this but there is an interesting story of Rachard Danielpour's Anima Mundi.
He thought he came up with a great original idea in one of the movements. After the premier he was approached by several members of the audience on how they thought it was neat that he quoted Borodin's In the Steppes of Asia.. He checked it out and was stunned. He had no idea that he quoted Borodin :o
Perhaps he had heard it unconsciously previously? It's rather curious that coincidences like those may occur.
I don't hear it as that big a similarity but rather both have a nordic feel, similar to how Sibelius phrases his themes, long notes followed by a rapid succession of short notes, then a long note.
Like this in the cellos.
https://youtu.be/2ZST63q-vGM?t=91 (https://youtu.be/2ZST63q-vGM?t=91)
I hear both Shore's LOTR "ring theme" and Atterberg as channeling the Nordic mistiness of Sibelius.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 26, 2025, 03:53:51 PMIt would be helpful, but IIRC, that motif just appears from that part on.
It's probably coincidence then, IMO. The harmony is totally different, and as
@relm1 pointed out above, Shore's inspiration could just as easily have been Sibelius. (I don't know Atterberg well at all and don't know to what extent he was influenced by the Finn.)
Quote from: krummholz on June 27, 2025, 07:44:32 AMIt's probably coincidence then, IMO. The harmony is totally different, and as @relm1 pointed out above, Shore's inspiration could just as easily have been Sibelius. (I don't know Atterberg well at all and don't know to what extent he was influenced by the Finn.)
Sibelius was a giant at that time for many reasons. Ralph Vaughan Williams dedicated his Symphony No. 5 to Sibelius. From wiki: "Atterberg, himself, was said to be a great admirer of Sibelius' music and this fairly conservative, nationalistic style is what the composer sought to emulate."
I had forgot how gorgeous his orchestral work Ballad without Words, op. 56 is. Since it's a late piece, it contains some interesting dissonances that enhance the exceptional atmosphere that is conjured up, not to mention how those soaring melodies manage to enchant. A great work in my view.
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzkzNzk3OC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE3MDczMDU1ODh9)
There are a couple of Atterberg albums that I've listened to and enjoyed. One is chamber music, the other symphonies.
But now I want to dig deeper and really listen to a substantial part of his output. What works would you recommend to me? Any fans, please feel free to jump in.
Quote from: DavidW on August 17, 2025, 08:36:04 AMBut now I want to dig deeper and really listen to a substantial part of his output. What works would you recommend to me? Any fans, please feel free to jump in.
folksy, Grieg type heritage: start with Symphony No. 8, then move on to Nos. 4, 6, and 7
neoclassical: Suite No. 3 with violin and viola soloists; orchestration for string orchestra of the Brahms Sextet No. 2
just a big ol' shot of romantic melody and Hollywood luscious scoring: Symphony No. 3, Violin Concerto
if you want to hear something a little darker: Symphony No. 5
wait til later: Symphonies 1, 2, 9; cello concerto, piano concerto
Rasilainen > Jarvi as this music does require a bit of sentimental melody-milking that Jarvi doesn't naturally do.
Quote from: DavidW on August 17, 2025, 08:36:04 AMThere are a couple of Atterberg albums that I've listened to and enjoyed. One is chamber music, the other symphonies.
But now I want to dig deeper and really listen to a substantial part of his output. What works would you recommend to me? Any fans, please feel free to jump in.
Allow me to jump in! ;D Unlike some lesser-known composers, I find Atterberg to be remarkably consistent in his inspiration. Amongst his output, only two major works stand out to me as being less inspired than usual, those being his Violin Concerto and 9th Symphony (IMO). I don't think I'll be alone in particularly recommending his marvelously atmospheric, dramatic, and ecstatically lyrical 3rd Symphony (
West Coast Pictures) as a good starting point for anyone's Atterberg exploration. From there, you might want to try the contrasting 5th and 6th Symphonies, the former of which is darkly tragic and the latter of which is breezily optimistic and permeated with infectious humor in its finale.
But I would put in a stronger word than Brian for his first two symphonies which are remarkably assured, melodically generous, and orchestrationally brilliant. The exciting scherzo of the First and the gloriously Romantic slow movement of the Second are particularly exalted inspirations. I'm also very partial to the Cello Concerto which stands out to me as one of the most lovable of all late-romantic cello concerti - sort of a cellistic counterpart to Sibelius' Violin Concerto in some ways.
Finally, two shorter orchestral works which could be said to be encapsulate many of Atterberg's best qualities in a relatively brief span of time are
A Värmland Rhapsody for orchestra and the Suite No. 3 for violin, viola, and string orchestra. Simply beautiful stuff, and anyone who finds his symphonies and concerti rather "over-the-top" could do well to try these works.
I agree with Brian that Rasilainen on CPO is the way to go with the symphonies, but Järvi does quite well in the "lighter" 4th and 6th. For the Cello Concerto, do seek out Truls Mørk's recording on BIS which is superior to the one on CPO.
Happy listening, David! :)
Confession: it's been about a decade since I've listened to the first two symphonies, an omission I'll fix this week. :)
There is a Toscanini Sixth by the way!
Quote from: Brian on August 17, 2025, 10:33:46 AMConfession: it's been about a decade since I've listened to the first two symphonies, an omission I'll fix this week. :)
There is a Toscanini Sixth by the way!
Oh! Well, in that case, I wouldn't be surprised if your opinion of the first two symphonies improves substantially after revisiting them. :)
And yes, I ought to check out Toscanini Sixth! There's also an ancient recording with the composer conducting none other than the Berlin Philharmonic, but the sound quality is a bit of an impediment to my enjoyment.
Revisiting the full Atterberg cycle for the first time in years! As mentioned upthread, I had recently restricted myself too much to Nos. 3, 4, 6, and 8.
No. 1 begins in full flight, with a drumstroke setting off a lyrical main melody. The scherzo is really strange and surprising and full of contrasting moods. The most ambitious movement is the finale; I love the four-minute adagio that begins it, while the main allegro is very strongly influenced by Nordic folk harmonies. It reminds me a lot of the tunes I know and love from Symphony No. 8. This symphony is way more entertaining, straightforward, and delightful than I remembered. It's a little long, but it's fun the whole time. Appreciate kyjo nudging me to listen again!
No. 2 is just as long, but very unusually structured in three movements with irregular, often-changing tempo markings. (The second movement is "adagio - presto - adagio - presto - adagio.") In F major, its opening feeling evokes Beethoven's Pastoral. That pastoral spirit lives through the rest of the work; the slow movement turns out to be a pretty, woodwind-heavy creation with rustic folk dance interruptions, a la Berwald's Sinfonie singuliere. The climactic section of this slow movement, from 13', is the first of the big "Hollywood" Atterberg moments with a strong punch of emotional, maybe kitschy melody. It actually ends loudly, too, a surprising heroic declaration complete with cymbal crash.
This is the one part of the symphony I feel doesn't work. Right after that loud, triumphant ending, we get a loud, dramatic beginning to the finale. I'm not sure the transition logically works for me, and historically the symphony was originally in two movements, with the third added later. The addition of a new finale makes No. 2 part of the strange tradition of "quasi-pastoral symphonies that become dramatic minor-key symphonies when you get to the finale." (Also including Dvorak 5, Mahler 1, Martinu 4.) Of course, Atterberg eventually brings us around to a huge triumphant brassy ending, which I would really be convinced by if there hadn't already been another one earlier.
I am skipping No. 3 on this traversal because I am so familiar with it. The finale is one of the most gloriously affecting of all romantic pieces; is it sentimental or cheesy or over-the-top? Probably, but I fall for it every single time. My one complaint is that I've always thought the storm section was a little too long.
No. 4 is so cute. I admire how much bluster and bustle and seriousness it packs into its tiny 20-minute frame. The very ending with that slapstick comedy high note always bothers me, because the symphony's tempest-in-a-teacup Sturm und Drang is already kind of parodically funny before the final joke. But this symphony could plausibly be what would happen if Haydn was born 150 years later in Sweden.
No. 5 is the tragic symphony and the favorite of the GMG GMG (Grim Music Guys). ;D The first movement is fiery, the second has the doom-destiny mood of the ending of a film noir, and the finale memorably metamorphoses into a sort of waltz of death. When you hear the influence of Mahler, most of all at the beginning of the finale, it's a bit of a shock: Atterberg seems to be one of the late romantics who was least influenced by Mahler. There's very little of this in the rest of his cycle! The ending, with a bassoon solo leading to a quiet ending, is very much like the ending of Tchaikovsky's Sixth. This is a good example of how Atterberg could take obvious influences from his great predecessors and "remix" them in engaging new ways.
No. 6 was the symphony that accidentally torpedoed Atterberg's international reputation by winning the 1928 Columbia competition. The international audience seemed to miss that the finale (a) is a great big joke, not a serious finale, and (b) contains a gigantic Schubert quote! It was recorded by Beecham and Toscanini, but it was seen as derivative and facile in comparison to some of the other composers who had entered (Schmidt, Brian, and Czeslaw Marek among them). Rumors spread that the decisive vote had been cast by arch-conservative Glazunov, or that it was a compromise pick because the judges worried a modernist winner would not be welcomed.
Well, anyway, I love it. I do think, as with the Fourth, the fundamental seriousness of the first two movements is probably to blame for early audiences' failure to enjoy the finale's jokes. The adagio especially seems profoundly sincere. But the first movement's rhythmic trickery is so satisfying, and the finale is so funny. Haters gonna hate. ;D
After 6, Atterberg took 14 years off from the symphonic genre, returning during World War II with Nos. 7 and 8. After the war, his ties to the Nazis would be scrutinized by his colleagues, and he would even request an investigation into them; certainly he seems to have been sympathetic to German artists and performers, and to antisemitism, in a way that was unusual for a composer in a neutral nation.
No. 7 is wildly melodramatic. The bluster, gale-force winds, big melodies of the previous symphonies are all amplified here. (I didn't notice this before, but the first movement has a tune that would later also be a main tune in No. 8.) The orchestration is memorable, too, especially in the slow movement that provides a few moments of calm before the even more crazed finale, a sort of apocalyptic folk dance.
No. 8 might be the most old-fashioned of all this composer's symphonies. With its folk music origins, completely traditional structure, and even its rather conventional ending uniting two motto themes, it is squarely in the romantic tradition. You could say it's the "best symphony Grieg never wrote." Sibelius liked it, and it has long been one of my favorites, though I think now it's been surpassed by the Sixth.
Atterberg's ninth symphony in order is unnumbered: the Symphony for Strings. It's a wonderful piece, not included in the main CPO cycle (or box set) but fully worthy. Admirably clear, well-crafted, and jaunty.
Finally, there's the official No. 9, a 40-minute cantata written years after the other works. This seems to be everybody's least favorite. ;D This is my first listen to it in 15 years! It has 13 continuous sections, almost all vocal. I love the hushed, mythical, "visionary" orchestral introduction. The first 15 minutes are all slow and quiet, just songs with accompaniment, before the orchestra erupts for a climax/interlude in VI. This episode is fun albeit a little derivative of Atterberg's past symphonies. The eruption in IX is a little more forward-looking and sinister. At the end, the music fades back into silence again, but not in a disintegrating Kalevi Aho way. Instead, this song-cycle-like piece fades into a sort of primeval Swedish forest at night.
Like everyone else, it's probably my least favorite, but that is more because of its form and singing, rather than an actual problem.
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Overall, Atterberg represents a sort of summation of the romantic movement in the Nordics, even moreso than Sibelius' first two symphonies. His works can be extremely dramatic, unabashedly catchy and emotional and maximalist. This is why I fell for it as a young listener in college, and now I still do love it. The craftsmanship underneath the flash is always there, although Atterberg's melodies were sometimes simplistic and his counterpoint used as a dramatic flourish rather than a constant part of the architecture. This re-listen really increased my affection for Nos. 1, 5, and 7 especially.