Kurt Atterberg (1887-1974)

[vers la flamme]

Enjoying the first two symphonies of Atterberg this past week. Anyone else listening?

[lordlance]

Enjoying the first two symphonies of Atterberg this past week. Anyone else listening?

Which cycle do you prefer: Jarvi or Ari?

[kyjo]

Enjoying the first two symphonies of Atterberg this past week. Anyone else listening?

Great to hear! I've recently come to regard the First as one of Atterberg's very finest and most satisfying efforts in the genre (though, of course, I love all of them ). The Brahmsian echoes in the second subject of the first movement notwithstanding, it's an entirely characteristic and personal work which stands as a mightily impressive symphonic debut. It's also one of his few symphonies (besides the 8th) to contain a full-fledged scherzo, and what a thrilling, vigorous one it is too! I would not be surprised if John Williams had somehow heard it before writing a few of his film scores. And the slow introduction to the finale, almost neo-Baroque in its aria-like simplicity, is a touchingly poignant and unique moment in Atterberg's output.

And I haven't even mentioned the Second Symphony yet, whose magnificent slow movement is worth the price of admission alone! Its instantly memorable, long-breathed main theme will stay with you for days. I could go on....!

[vers la flamme]

Which cycle do you prefer: Jarvi or Ari?

Haven't heard any full cycle; all I have is two discs of the Rasilainen cycle on CPO, and it sounds great to me. I'm sure I'd also like the Järvi as I'm a big fan of his.

@kyjo, I also like the scherzo of the first. The main thing that caught my ear at first was Atterberg's writing for the low strings. He gives them some very beautiful melodies, especially in the first movement.

[J]

Isn't Jarvi's Atterberg controversial because of speedy tempos?  It grabs your attention as an alternative take, but if his readings were all we had we'd think less of the music than we do, I feel.  OTOH, there are times I find Rasilainen just too slow and deliberate.  My favored Atterberg lineup still the following:

Symphony 1 - Westerberg (Sterling)
Symphony 2 - Westerberg (Swedish Society Discofil - coupled with an incomparable Suite No.2)
Symphony 3 - Ehrling (Caprice)
Symphony 4 - Rasilainen (CPO)
Symphony 5 - Westerberg (Musica Sueciae)
Symphony 6 - Rasilainen (CPO)
Symphony 7 - Jurowski (Sterling)
Symphony 8 - Jurowski (Sterling)
Symphony 9 - Rasilainen (CPO)
Cello Concerto - Thomas-Mifune (Koch - an incomparable performance in my judgment, coupled with the
                                  only recording of the great Cello Sonata).
Violin Concerto - Wallin (CPO)
Piano Concerto - Franklin-Smith (Sterling)

[Brian]

Isn't Jarvi's Atterberg controversial because of speedy tempos? 

Thanks for this thoughtful survey! I need to quickly make acquaintance with the Sterling recordings. I personally have a hard time forgiving Jarvi for the horrible live performance of 3, with percussion missing or inaudible in the finale. But he is good at some of the more straightforward neoclassical pieces like No. 4.

Speaking of quite fast, have you heard the Toscanini recording of 6?

[Daverz]

Isn't Jarvi's Atterberg controversial because of speedy tempos?  It grabs your attention as an alternative take, but if his readings were all we had we'd think less of the music than we do, I feel.  OTOH, there are times I find Rasilainen just too slow and deliberate.  My favored Atterberg lineup still the following:

Symphon 1 - Westerberg (Sterling)
Symphony 2 - Westerberg (Swedish Society Discofil - coupled with an incomparable Suite No.2)
Symphony 3 - Ehrling (Caprice)
Symphony 4 - Rasilainen (CPO)
Symphony 5 - Westerberg (Musica Sueciae)
Symphony 6 - Rasilainen (CPO)
Symphony 7 - Jurowski (Sterling)
Symphony 8 - Jurowski (Sterling)
Symphony 9 - Rasilainen (CPO)
Cello Concerto - Thomas-Mifune (Koch - an incomparable performance in my judgment, coupled with the
                                  only recording of the great Cello Sonata).
Violin Concerto - Wallin (CPO)
Piano Concerto - Franklin-Smith (Sterling)

Nice list!  I think the only things I couldn't find streaming are the Swedish Society Discofil disc and the Koch disc.

Looking around for the Ehrling recording on Qobuz, I stumbled on this very interesting set of Caprice recordings:



https://open.qobuz.com/album/vqjy7h9pbwh3a

This includes the Atterberg Symphony No. 3 conducted by Ehrling and a whole bunch of other great orchestral music by Swedish composers from Berwald to Pettersson for $9.

[relm1]

Isn't Jarvi's Atterberg controversial because of speedy tempos?  It grabs your attention as an alternative take, but if his readings were all we had we'd think less of the music than we do, I feel.  OTOH, there are times I find Rasilainen just too slow and deliberate.  My favored Atterberg lineup still the following:

Symphon 1 - Westerberg (Sterling)
Symphony 2 - Westerberg (Swedish Society Discofil - coupled with an incomparable Suite No.2)
Symphony 3 - Ehrling (Caprice)
Symphony 4 - Rasilainen (CPO)
Symphony 5 - Westerberg (Musica Sueciae)
Symphony 6 - Rasilainen (CPO)
Symphony 7 - Jurowski (Sterling)
Symphony 8 - Jurowski (Sterling)
Symphony 9 - Rasilainen (CPO)
Cello Concerto - Thomas-Mifune (Koch - an incomparable performance in my judgment, coupled with the
                                  only recording of the great Cello Sonata).
Violin Concerto - Wallin (CPO)
Piano Concerto - Franklin-Smith (Sterling)

Jarvi's issue isn't so much the tempo but the phoned in performance.  It reeked of not much interest in the repertoire, an example of which was the speedy tempo.  My bet is there were no rehearsals.  He showed up and said start recording.  They read through it maybe a correction then moved on.  Not really diving in deep to the music. and it clearly showed.  The best recordings in this cycle were decades old.

[kyjo]

Isn't Jarvi's Atterberg controversial because of speedy tempos?  It grabs your attention as an alternative take, but if his readings were all we had we'd think less of the music than we do, I feel.  OTOH, there are times I find Rasilainen just too slow and deliberate.  My favored Atterberg lineup still the following:

Symphony 1 - Westerberg (Sterling)
Symphony 2 - Westerberg (Swedish Society Discofil - coupled with an incomparable Suite No.2)
Symphony 3 - Ehrling (Caprice)
Symphony 4 - Rasilainen (CPO)
Symphony 5 - Westerberg (Musica Sueciae)
Symphony 6 - Rasilainen (CPO)
Symphony 7 - Jurowski (Sterling)
Symphony 8 - Jurowski (Sterling)
Symphony 9 - Rasilainen (CPO)
Cello Concerto - Thomas-Mifune (Koch - an incomparable performance in my judgment, coupled with the
                                  only recording of the great Cello Sonata).
Violin Concerto - Wallin (CPO)
Piano Concerto - Franklin-Smith (Sterling)

Thanks for this list! I need to familiarize myself with more of the non-Rasilainen recordings of the symphonies. I wish I could find the Thomas-Mifune recording of the Cello Concerto on YT or Spotify, but alas I cannot. Not a huge deal though, as I find the Truls Mork (BIS) and Jakob Koranyi (YT) recordings to be quite satisfying.

[vandermolen]

Isn't Jarvi's Atterberg controversial because of speedy tempos?  It grabs your attention as an alternative take, but if his readings were all we had we'd think less of the music than we do, I feel.  OTOH, there are times I find Rasilainen just too slow and deliberate.  My favored Atterberg lineup still the following:

Symphony 1 - Westerberg (Sterling)
Symphony 2 - Westerberg (Swedish Society Discofil - coupled with an incomparable Suite No.2)
Symphony 3 - Ehrling (Caprice)
Symphony 4 - Rasilainen (CPO)
Symphony 5 - Westerberg (Musica Sueciae)
Symphony 6 - Rasilainen (CPO)
Symphony 7 - Jurowski (Sterling)
Symphony 8 - Jurowski (Sterling)
Symphony 9 - Rasilainen (CPO)
Cello Concerto - Thomas-Mifune (Koch - an incomparable performance in my judgment, coupled with the
                                  only recording of the great Cello Sonata).
Violin Concerto - Wallin (CPO)
Piano Concerto - Franklin-Smith (Sterling)

Very much agree with this list although I'm less familiar with the concertos. I agree with relm 1 that the best recordings are decades old, thinking particularly of Ehrling's recording of Symphony No.3 'West Coast Pictures' and Westerberg's of Symphony No. 2 and 5 'Funebre'. I also like the Sterling recording of symphonies 7 and 8.

[Maestro267]

The resurrection of this thread has inspired me to go on another run of the Rasilainen symphony cycle. At least I think it's going to be a run. Just done Nos. 1 & 2. The 2nd is probably my favourite of the entire cycle, though No. 3 runs it close. The ending of the finale is absolutely stunning, the way the V cadence modulates.

[vandermolen]

The resurrection of this thread has inspired me to go on another run of the Rasilainen symphony cycle. At least I think it's going to be a run. Just done Nos. 1 & 2. The 2nd is probably my favourite of the entire cycle, though No. 3 runs it close. The ending of the finale is absolutely stunning, the way the V cadence modulates.

Agree about the inspiriting end of the 3rd Symphony.

[Maestro267]

I was referring to the finale of No. 2 there but that of No. 3 is equally stunning.

[Albion]

I'm not a good comparative listener - once I find a set (I particularly favour boxes, since I split discs up at random) that I like I tend to stick with it since there are always so many demands on time, space and wallet. Not that these days I can locate most of them without the aid of a torch and a sturdy rope. For me, Rasilainen (CPO) does the business in Atterberg, as does Dausgaard in Langgaard (Dacapo), Masur in Liszt (EMI), Ashkenazy in Rachmaninov (Decca), Kempe in Strauss (EMI), Blomstedt in Hindemith (Decca), Stadlmair in Raff (Tudor), Britten in Britten (Decca), Serebrier in Glazunov (Warner) and Griffiths in Ries (CPO), etc. If I started accumulating multiple recordings the bloody floor would collapse and possibly wipe out the downstairs neighbours (which, given the noise that they generate, would be a mercy killing)...

 

[vandermolen]

Enjoying the first two symphonies of Atterberg this past week. Anyone else listening?

I like No.2 very much although 3 and 5 remain my favourites.

[Albion]

I like No.2 very much although 3 and 5 remain my favourites.

Atterberg is an absolute pleasure, along with Schreker and Korngold. Lush, melodic and orchestrated with perfection. Again, one of those composers who never appears in the concert hall but seems destined to remain in the realms of recordings (Sinding, Holbrooke, Hindemith, Castelnuovo-Tedesco, Alfven, Chadwick, Stanford, Casella and Bliss also come to mind). Programming is just so dull today that it's a miracle that people turn up to hear anything at all...

 

[Maestro267]

People are so mindless they're perfectly satisfied with hearing Beethoven whatever for the 503940939384th time.

[Brian]

People are so mindless they're perfectly satisfied with hearing Beethoven whatever for the 503940939384th time.

I think this is not a reflection of what I see in concert halls here in Texas (where I imagine most concertgoers are significantly more conservative than in Europe - although we are getting a Casella symphony live next year).

Many people who go to concerts fit that description. "Oh, I love Beethoven's Sixth, let's go!"
And there are many repertoire staples where I fit that description, too. The experience of seeing a work live is so much different from hearing it on recording that it is very frequently worth reacquainting yourself with a warhorse.

But many people at concerts here are those who don't necessarily listen to classical music day in, day out, or have a wide diet of music, and see going to the symphony as an elevated occasion. A social occasion or like a trip to the art gallery. This of course is the original mode of concertgoing from when public classical subscription concerts and operas began in the 1700s. For these people, a name like Beethoven's is a stamp of quality.

Finally, I think that orchestras should be doing significantly more work to reach out to non-concertgoers. People who don't know yet that they like classical music. One way to do this, of course, is to program great music everyone will love. Another way, though, is to program music that non-concertgoers can immediately relate to. In my area, 30-40% of the population is from Latin America. I think Texas orchestras should be constantly programming Revueltas, Ponce, Castellanos, Villa-Lobos, Piazzolla, Guarnieri, G.L. Frank, Marquez, Gabriela Ortiz, Sierra, etc. In other areas, with other groups of people, it would be different. I like Atterberg but I imagine his music even today would do better in Scandinavia than some other places.

Sorry, hope this is not rude, you just uncorked a whole lot of thoughts!

[Albion]

People are so mindless they're perfectly satisfied with hearing Beethoven whatever for the 503940939384th time.

There should be a moratorium on Bach, Handel, Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms and several other suspects in order to free up programmes for so much other great music. It will never happen of course as concert promoters are generally ignorant of the wider repertoire and unwilling to take any informed initiative, let alone introduce audiences to unjustly neglected repertoire. As I mentioned, even giants such as Tchaikovsky, Rimsky and Dvorak barely get a look in now except for "Romeo and Juliet", "Scheherazade" and "The New World". At the Barbican they occasionally have "immersive" weekends, but do I really want to immerse myself in Harrison Birtwistle? I'd rather immerse myself in Schreker, Korngold, Sullivan or Glazunov thanks. Truly a bloody dismal state of affairs...

 

a name like Beethoven's is a stamp of quality.

Yep, but just how much more do we really need either live or in recordings at the expense of an alternative symphony, concerto, overture, string quartet or piano sonata? When I was at University in Manchester in the 1980s I wrote the programme notes for the Lindsay Quartet's Dvorak concert cycle and used to make a point of always mentioning that "other chamber works are available"...

 

[Maestro267]

Continued with my symphony run today with Nos. 3-5.