what would your next work be?
A symphony so large in scale as to make Havergal Brian look like a miniaturist.
Quote from: Todd on August 03, 2011, 09:40:52 AM
A symphony so large in scale as to make Havergal Brian look like a miniaturist.
He kind of was (average symphony duration about 25 mins, excluding the first four, under 20) ;)
I would write a swaggeringly Romantic concerto for oboe and cello, because none yet exists.
Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Shostakovich on August 03, 2011, 10:31:49 AMHe kind of was (average symphony duration about 25 mins, excluding the first four, under 20)
I was referring specifically to
The Gothic, of course.
I would write a string quartet in the style of the neotonalists! :)
Here are some things I've composed in my head which I would gladly set to paper given the technical skills to do so:
Solo piano
- Two waltzes (in the J. Strauss rather than Chopin mode)
- Seven etudes, "The Deadly Sins," each evoking a separate sin (range of styles: e.g. envy as a minimalist study in tiny intervals, gluttony as the sort of thing Marc-Andre Hamelin plays after too much coffee)
Chamber
- String Quartet No 1. Three movements, outer movements brashly dissonant but jazzy (a la Schulhoff?), central movement a series of variations on Schubert's 'Ave Maria' in the tempo of tango
- String Quartet No 2. Four movements, based on organic development of abstract themes (a la Janacek?)
- String Quartet No 3. One movement rhapsodic work. Attempt to unite jazz and string quartet, the particular challenge set for myself being retaining rhythmic strength without recourse to any percussive effects or cello pizzicato/plucking. In other words, attempting to create free-floating/interlocking melodic lines for each instrument which through their interaction create a sense of rhythm.
Orchestral
- 'Dreamtime', fantastical evolutions on a simple descending thematic cell appearing in numerous guises, moods, and emotional terrains. Named for Australian Aboriginal mythological space. Full orchestra, ~45 minutes.
Arrangements
- Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2, for full orchestra (no current orchestration satisfies)
- Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 6, for string orchestra
That's what I have at present. A lot of past stuff is being abandoned, discarded, or forgotten - such is the nature of not being able to write down the music you imagine. I should note that this isn't just single whims*: each of the works here has been mentally run-through at least three separate times and the themes/contours are known. I got a violin concerto to where the full work was more or less memorized and repeatable, but now I don't like it anymore. :(
*example of a whim: while I was hiking in Spain, a local village had its annual saint's day fiesta/celebration. But the village was incredibly tiny so the fiesta was adorably small. This inspired the idea for a lively Spanish jota in the grand Falla tradition, but played at around mezzopiano and very lightly scored, maybe even muted strings and trumpet, as if you were hearing it from the next room.
It sounds like someone wishes they were a composer! :D
If I could compose I'd like to further expand on Wagner's ring cycle. Honestly, the leitmotifs have already been determined for each of the characters and ideas and themes. I'd like to expand Das Reingold from the moment Alberich steals the Rheingold until we find ourselves in The sky with the gods. This covers the actions of Wotan as he forsakes an eye, cuts a branch from the world ash tree, fashions his spear, commissions the Giants to build his palace etc. The music will marry with Wagner's orchestral music that opens the scene at Valhalla as the Giants have just finished building Wotan palace. The action will flow seamlessly in line with Wagner's artwork!
Between Die Walkure I'd interject a 5th music drama to cover the following events: Mime finds Sieglinde in the east forest, helps her give birth to Siegfried, raises the boy and prepares him for the battle with Fafner that is to come. I will have to investigate how Mime gets to the east forest, is there any action with Alberich? Maybe a monologue a la Wotan style to cover Mime conniving to win back the ring through Siegfried.........I need ideas here.......... What should I call this piece....Mime und Siegfried? No too obvious, how about A New Birth...no that does not sound right...hmmm... Oh wait I just remembered I have no musical talent whatsoever.......I can't
compose so what is the use....... :-\
marvin
Quote from: DavidW on August 03, 2011, 11:59:45 AM
It sounds like someone wishes they were a composer! :D
Not far wrong! :( ;D
My mother, a few months ago, came across a piece I wrote back in high school for a brass quintet and mailed me the score, I'm not sure what to think of it :-\
Playing brass in the past and my brother being a professional trombonist I've always had a thing for brass parts, so even though I am big on string quartets, Haydn & Schubert I've always wanted write for brass.
I'd write a concerto for bells and orchestra - not just tubular bells, but big cathedral bells, glockenspiels, hand bells, cow bells, bell plates...all sorts. Then I'd write a concerto for tam-tams, gongs and orchestra with a similar eclectic array. :)
Quote from: techniquest on August 03, 2011, 12:51:39 PMcow bells
(http://images.sodahead.com/polls/001532401/32618711_273902d1294895319_rare_91_camaro_needs_more_cowbell_xlarge.jpeg)
A massive Symphony, conveying a sense of impending catastrophe, mournful despair, hauting dread - ultimately resolving itself into a sense of grimly hopeless defiance. ;D Occasionally I wake up with themes from this work in my head - but as I'm not musical I can't write them down and I then forget them. :(
Quote from: vandermolen on August 03, 2011, 01:35:26 PM
A massive Symphony, conveying a sense of impending catastrophe, mournful despair, hauting dread - ultimately resolving itself into a sense of grimly hopeless defiance. ;D Occasionally I wake up with themes from this work in my head - but as I'm not musical I can't write them down and I then forget them. :(
Okay, but your second Symphony needs to end with the long march towards sunrise.
Once, back in my youth, I was just starting to drive without a chaperone, and was coming back from a party after working late at night. I must confess I was rather inebriated (Okay-- it was the 70s. In retrospect, I should have called for a ride, and would give my kids a hard time about making the same mistake.) Anyway, thanks my "buzz", THE SYMPHONY appeared in my mind-- much along the lines of Vandermolen's. It also had one of those great pensive slow movements out of Miaskovsky. Anyway, just as I was composing the final crashing chords of the last movement, I suddenly was aware that, even though I've never driven more than 5 miles before, I was already 40 miles from home on the interstate system, with no idea how to get back.
The experience would have been worth it if I could have captured it.
Also, I adore Stravinsky's Les Noces and also now play the hammered dulcimer (the smaller cousin of the cimbalom), and a lot of the composing I've dabbled in has been for an augmented percussion ensemble with polymeter.
Quote from: jowcol on August 03, 2011, 02:23:31 PM
Okay, but your second Symphony needs to end with the long march towards sunrise.
Once, back in my youth, I was just starting to drive without a chaperone, and was coming back from a party after working late at night. I must confess I was rather inebriated (Okay-- it was the 70s. In retrospect, I should have called for a ride, and would give my kids a hard time about making the same mistake.) Anyway, thanks my "buzz", THE SYMPHONY appeared in my mind-- much along the lines of Vandermolen's. It also had one of those great pensive slow movements out of Miaskovsky. Anyway, just as I was composing the final crashing chords of the last movement, I suddenly was aware that, even though I've never driven more than 5 miles before, I was already 40 miles from home on the interstate system, with no idea how to get back.
The experience would have been worth it if I could have captured it.
Also, I adore Stravinsky's Les Noces and also now play the hammered dulcimer (the smaller cousin of the cimbalom), and a lot of the composing I've dabbled in has been for an augmented percussion ensemble with polymeter.
Nice post and, oh yes, my Second Symphony will definitely end with a long trudging march - towards the sunrise. My daughter and her generation are much more sensible about never drinking when they drive that I was at her age (actually at her age I couldn'd drive - I only learnt to drive at aged 28). I should like to have heard your Symphony. :)
If I could compose...
Hmmm....this is actually a dream of mine that I hope to one day make a reality.
One of the first works I would compose is Quintet for Oboe, Viola, Horn, Vibraphone, and Cymbal. The cymbal part, which will be played on a ride cymbal, will revolve around a percussionist using a brush to play quasi-jazz rhythms. The oboe will state the melodies, the viola and horn are going to play bass notes and work in conjunction with the percussionist's rhythms from the cymbal, and the vibraphone is going to guide the whole group with a chord progression. The vibraphonist will use their sustain pedals every now and again to hold certain chord voicings out. The work will be haunting in texture as all my pieces will be. A lot of my music will evoke Expressionism with harmonic leanings to Debussy, Ravel, and Koechlin.
Here is my latest composition, even though I can't compose. I composed it next year. It goes like this...
It lasts less than a second, and is a minimalist version of John Cages 4.33". It is a bloody masterpiece. Even Mozart would have to bow to me after this. I hope Karl will premiere it in a Boston Church some time soon.
If I COULD compose, I would be more interested in resurrecting the styles of Atterberg, Rangstrom and the like...
http://www.youtube.com/v/8sLNOhA7C2Q
Quote from: Todd on August 03, 2011, 12:57:08 PM
(http://images.sodahead.com/polls/001532401/32618711_273902d1294895319_rare_91_camaro_needs_more_cowbell_xlarge.jpeg)
:P
The two or three people here who have musical ideas come to them in their heads, but lack the knowledge to write them down, can hum them or sing them into a recorder, then use note recognition software available free online to write the music. There are millions of professional musicians worldwide who cannot compose because ideas do not come to them. Those who have ideas coming to them in their heads are a rare breed and should follow it up. A better way would be to learn piano, elec. keyboard, or guitar, which are orchestral type instruments and can play melodies in chords as well as single notes. Within a year or two you could learn enough to play and write down your ideas. Do not waste your rare talent. Having these ideas come to you is not only a sign of rare compositional talent, but also an indication that you would learn to play relatively quickly. Are you too old? You are never too old. You live only once. Take full advantage of what nature has given you.
Quote from: Chaszz on August 06, 2011, 06:11:24 AM
The two or three people here who have musical ideas come to them in their heads, but lack the knowledge to write them down, can hum them or sing them into a recorder, then use note recognition software available free online to write the music. There are millions of professional musicians worldwide who cannot compose because ideas do not come to them. Those who have ideas coming to them in their heads are a rare breed and should follow it up. A better way would be to learn piano, elec. keyboard, or guitar, which are orchestral type instruments and can play melodies in chords as well as single notes. Within a year or two you could learn enough to play and write down your ideas. Do not waste your rare talent. Having these ideas come to you is not only a sign of rare compositional talent, but also an indication that you would learn to play relatively quickly. Are you too old? You are never too old. You live only once. Take full advantage of what nature has given you.
Words of encouragement, Chaszz.
I studied music years ago, and have always regretted stopping. I recently found some old compositions and started on new ones. I don't claim them to be masterpieces, and not even sure if I'm even satisfied with them, but I find it very enjoyable and even therapeutic to compose.
In fact, I just purchased an A-style mandolin, and wanted to compose something for it...but I should probably learn to play it properly first. :D
Anyway, this is a fun thread.
Exercises - little chamber opera for mezzosoprano and violin (invisible). The only person is violinist's wife.
I think I would write a lot of music for piano - piano concertos, piano sonatas, etudes, nocturnes - trying to make the most of the possibilities of the instrument and using thematic tranformation, in Romantic style; I would compose massive symphonies, orchestral suites and tone poems as well.
Also both a Violin and a Cello Concerto, and maybe a ballet taking inspiration from the Norse Mythology.
Ilaria
I would probably compose alternate scene 3 for act 1 of Götterdämmerung, where instead of Waltraute it is Wotan who would come talk to Brünnhilde for one last time. I was always little disappointed because Wotan never showed up in Götterdämmerung. Although you could argue another scene with Brünnhilde and Wotan would make the farewell scene from die Walküre lose some of it's dramatic status.
Also I think I could try composing a violin concerto, whole new opera, and maybe a string quartet.
something with bagpipes, tubas and the banjo, with political slogans, advertising jingles and cowboy lyrics that sounds like orchestral rock-band church-music punctuated with high pitched sounds and abrupt changes in pace and mood
like this
http://www.youtube.com/v/9fCtDO7OcRM
Quote from: Chaszz on August 06, 2011, 06:11:24 AM
The two or three people here who have musical ideas come to them in their heads, but lack the knowledge to write them down, can hum them or sing them into a recorder, then use note recognition software available free online to write the music. There are millions of professional musicians worldwide who cannot compose because ideas do not come to them. Those who have ideas coming to them in their heads are a rare breed and should follow it up. A better way would be to learn piano, elec. keyboard, or guitar, which are orchestral type instruments and can play melodies in chords as well as single notes. Within a year or two you could learn enough to play and write down your ideas. Do not waste your rare talent. Having these ideas come to you is not only a sign of rare compositional talent, but also an indication that you would learn to play relatively quickly. Are you too old? You are never too old. You live only once. Take full advantage of what nature has given you.
Interesting and insightful. For me, I slid more towards improvisation-- it worked with a lot of ldeas I had and non-classical sources I have (Hindustani classical, modal jazz, etc.) It also fit into my hectic schedule. Better to do something rather than nothing-- and find an approach that fits.
I have ideas all the time. Sometimes i'm able to write entire movements into my head. I just can't hold them into my memory. I had this problem even before my mental illness, but now it is of course so bad that i forget a melody or a piece of music the moment i conjure it up. I think most of the great composers probably had pretty good musical memories. If i had been trained in composition i'd probably have to carry a notebook every where i go.
I would compose a chamber work for Guqin, flute, doublebass, voice and string quartet. The Guqin part being pre-recorded and the voice part ad lib.
Quote from: vandermolen on August 03, 2011, 01:35:26 PM
A massive Symphony, conveying a sense of impending catastrophe, mournful despair, hauting dread - ultimately resolving itself into a sense of grimly hopeless defiance. ;D
No wonder you like Popov's 1st ;D
If I was a composer I'd definitely graduate with a symphony. I think it would be a light-hearted work.
Quote from: jowcol on October 01, 2011, 04:10:41 AM
Interesting and insightful. For me, I slid more towards improvisation-- it worked with a lot of ldeas I had and non-classical sources I have (Hindustani classical, modal jazz, etc.) It also fit into my hectic schedule. Better to do something rather than nothing-- and find an approach that fits.
Upon further reflection, most of what I've been creating has been really driven by the instrument I play. (The Hammered Dulcimer-- sort of like an Autoharp you play with mallets.) It makes some things very easy, and other things very hard. It's tuned using circle of fifths, so some scales are much easier to play than others. Although it's chromatic for a three octave range , the distance between two notes a semitone apart may either be .75 of an inch or 2.5 feet, depending on which two you are talking about. If you are trying to play something different with each hand, some of these reaches are tough, to say the least. Also, the Dulcimer, unlike it's big brother the Cimbalom, doesn't have any damping, which means the sustain is always on unless you manually damp the strings. (Sort of like George Winston on the piano). Really heavily chromatic runs sound muddy real fast. ALso, you are basically limited to two notes sounding at a time-- although arpeggios and glissandos can hint at more. Finally, unlike a harp or keyboard, the bass needs to be played with the right hand, and the treble the left.
There are some advantages to the instrument-- one of the biggest is rhythmic control, since it's a lot easier to spin out some more complicated patterns with a wrist than a finger as on a keyboard. This is probably the reason why I go for a lot of polyrythmic modal stuff-- it plays to the instrument's strengths. ALso, you do have a degree of control how a hammer strikes the strings that a piano does not offer, for rolls, bounces, and also playing with the degree to which felt is involved in the strike.
It may be a chicken or egg question about whether my taking up the dulcimer was because I had a fondness for modal music, or the other way around. (Although my tastes in listening are a lot broader-- I hope-- a lot of the music I love is more sophisticated harmonically.) I've tried some composition using fairly cheap software where I had the liberty to play around more harmonically, to mixed results, some I like, and some that just sounds forced. Since I'm juggling the kids and job, my time is limited, so I find myself falling back to what I think will offer the best results for the time I have.
When my kids asked me to teach them the Dulcimer, I said no. They're both getting classical instruction (Cello and Viola), but I'm throwing a lot of non-classical stuff at them as well. I hope they get the bug to compose, and if they are still interested in learning the Dulcimer in a few years, I'd be glad to teach them what I know-- but I'd want them to start from a better foundation than what I have.
Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Pettersson on August 03, 2011, 10:31:49 AM
He kind of was (average symphony duration about 25 mins, excluding the first four, under 20) ;)
I would write a swaggeringly Romantic concerto for oboe and cello, because none yet exists.
You sir, are in luck. There is an absolutely gorgeous, yearningly romantic piece by Leighton for cello, oboe and strings. It's youthful and dedicated to Finzi who is a clear influence. Can't recommend it enough!
Die Vergewaltigung von Schwanen
Radio Play & Ballet for flute, 2 harps, and string quartet
The Title is 'The Rape of Swans', and is semi-programmatic. The two harps obviously symbolize the two wings of the swan(s), the flute (is probably the narrator?), and the string quartet would, alternatively, represent a group of ruffians, and something 'good' that I don't have yet.
The 'plot' should be clear to anyone who is familiar with esoteric knowledge. Technically, the piece should be scientifically perfect, and aurally fantastic, by turns rapturous in a Szymanowski-meets-Stockhausen/Messiaen, and violent and grotesque, and beautiful in a non-Western tonal way (though I'm sure there would be simple triads at points (but not really in a PostModern way)).
Tekh
Competition for virtuoso guitarist
This is my magnum opus for guitar, so difficult as to make it available only to a few. All sounds of the instrument will be explored, but I have chosen not to include the performer in the sounds. This piece would basically sound like the perfect Xenakis guitar piece, so unbelievably good as to make you sit in awe.
Kraken
fur grosses orchester
Just my attempt to do the perfect Xenakis piece. Kitchen sink, no doubt!
Suess
for string quartet
My attempt to do an original sounding SQ. Begins with a 'bouncey' theme... boing boing!! This is NOT 'Seuss', as in Dr. Seuss, but 'Suess', my own original word.
Nadir
Ganymede
for solo soprano
My attempt to blow your mind with the human voice. I picture the typical Avant stuff, with lightning jump cuts, like a TV remote.
Live Sex Show
for theater troupe
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Music for Implantable Microchip
for subject
??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Does This Look Infected?
for comedian
:P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
QuoteChaszz
what would your next work be?
A choral work, for mixed choir. Perhaps based on the De Profundis. The style? Between Webern's Second Cantata and Ligeti "O Lux Aeterna" I suppose.
I am a writer, but music permeates everything I write, and not only in the obvious sense of having a style that is meant to be heard, but also structurally (I sometimes think that my narrative structures owe more to Beethovenian sonata form combined with Wagner than to any admired novelist!)
If I could compose, my music would be mainly symphonic and operatic. It would be rich, kaleidoscopic, very colourful, full of ideas, many things going on at the same time. I think I'd be a freer Simpson and a more linear Brian. You may add a Delian warmth.
I don't think the world is poorer without my music, though. It would be thoroughly anachronistic. It's a good thing I'm a writer!
Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on October 08, 2011, 02:03:31 AM
I am a writer, but music permeates everything I write, and not only in the obvious sense of having a style that is meant to be heard, but also structurally (I sometimes think that my narrative structures owe more to Beethovenian sonata form combined with Wagner than to any admired novelist!)
If I could compose, my music would be mainly symphonic and operatic. It would be rich, kaleidoscopic, very colourful, full of ideas, many things going on at the same time. I think I'd be a freer Simpson and a more linear Brian. You may add a Delian warmth.
I don't think the world is poorer without my music, though. It would be thoroughly anachronistic. It's a good thing I'm a writer!
A
more linear Brian!? 8) :o
'Linear' in the narrative sense. Brian gets from A to D, jumps to B, then inspects K... The logic of progression in my music would be more Wagnerian ('art of transition').
I understand - I thought you meant in the contrapuntal sense...
Quote from: Luke on October 08, 2011, 09:39:40 AM
I understand - I thought you meant in the contrapuntal sense...
Then that aghast smiley would have been absolutely correct!
I doubt I could ever get my thoughts down on paper (computer, rather ;D), but if I could compose, the first work I would write would be an epic, large-scale symphony with a layout like this:
1st movement: Dark and troubled, menacing, march-like (a la Mahler 6)
2nd movement: A neo-Brucknerian scherzo with a nostalgic waltz-like trio
3rd movement: An elegy centered on the strings, rising up to a passionate climax and then dying away into nothingness (a la Shosty 5)
4th movement: A very gradual crescendo extending for about five minutes and breaking into a majestic brass chorale (a la Braga Santos 4), followed by a slow, reflective section which leads into a massive fugue which increases in intensity until the "triumph over the odds" conclusion is reached, which is a reprise of the previous brass chorale
Something like that ;D
Oh, and I'd like to throw a timpani solo in there somewhere (possibly in the 4th movement fugue?) and a cello solo (in the 3rd).
Very cool, Kyle. I'd like to hear that symphony. :)
I suppose one of first works would be for a chamber ensemble, as would be most of my compositions, here's an example of a work I would compose:
Sextet for violin, double bass, cor anglais, electric guitar, vibraphone, and snare drum
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 27, 2013, 07:16:55 AM
Very cool, Kyle. I'd like to hear that symphony. :)
I suppose one of first works would be for a chamber ensemble, as would be most of my compositions, here's an example of a work I would compose:
Sextet for violin, double bass, cor anglais, electric guitar, vibraphone, and snare drum
You're more practical than I am, John! ;D I'd like to compose a septet for viola, cello, double bass, vibraphone, piano, bass clarinet, and timpani.
Quote from: kyjo on October 27, 2013, 07:27:23 AM
You're more practical than I am, John! ;D I'd like to compose a septet for viola, cello, double bass, vibraphone, piano, bass clarinet, and timpani.
:)
Well, I would compose a few orchestral works (hopefully on commissions), but a bulk of my oeuvre would be chamber music. It's much easier getting together musicians for a chamber ensemble than an entire orchestra. ;)
In terms of solo instrumental music, I would write several
Sonatas for guitar, violin, cello, cor anglais, oboe, trumpet, and horn. I wouldn't write much vocal music, but perhaps a few works like an idea I have had for wordless vocals soaring over the top of a chamber ensemble of mostly strings and piano. The name of the work would be titled
Chanson de l'ombre.
Quote from: kyjo on October 27, 2013, 07:05:32 AM
I doubt I could ever get my thoughts down on paper (computer, rather ;D), but if I could compose, the first work I would write would be an epic, large-scale symphony with a layout like this:
1st movement: Dark and troubled, menacing, march-like (a la Mahler 6)
2nd movement: A neo-Brucknerian scherzo with a nostalgic waltz-like trio
3rd movement: An elegy centered on the strings, rising up to a passionate climax and then dying away into nothingness (a la Shosty 5)
4th movement: A very gradual crescendo extending for about five minutes and breaking into a majestic brass chorale (a la Braga Santos 4), followed by a slow, reflective section which leads into a massive fugue which increases in intensity until the "triumph over the odds" conclusion is reached, which is a reprise of the previous brass chorale
Something like that ;D
Oh, and I'd like to throw a timpani solo in there somewhere (possibly in the 4th movement fugue?) and a cello solo (in the 3rd).
You write it - I'll buy it !
Quote from: cjvinthechair on October 27, 2013, 08:16:20 AM
You write it - I'll buy it !
Don't get your hopes up, Clive! ;D
To be honest I don't see what stops people from composing if they can come up with ideas. Usually the ideas (and the work ethic >.>) are the hard part, not the technical knowledge.
If you can read music, you can write music; there's free software out there (MuseScore, Finale Notepad, Lilypond—which is text-based but you can also install a GUI like Frescobaldi to go with it) that will let you put notes down and hear them played back on rudimentary midi sounds. Finale or Sibelius is worth having if you're planning to compose a lot, but since the main advantages are professional looking scores and better sound quality (and not much else) think hard before you set yourself back 40-50 CDs ;). If you can't read music, you can try to learn >.>, or you can record yourself playing the ideas on your instrument and transcribe them into a DAW like Cubase/Logic/Pro Tools as many film composers do these days (although those will also take a few dozen CDs out of your budget). You can also use DAWs and sequencers even if you can't either read music or play an instrument; the interface is usually more piano-roll style for computer-generated sounds, and waveform style for samples. If you have lots of time, money and hard disk space on your hands you can shell out for a professional sample library like VSL and make lesser composers burn in envy.
Of course, if the main problem is that you're simply too busy with work/school/golf to compose there's less advice I can offer. You'll probably have to weigh leisure activities (including listening to music) against your desire to write. (Well, more accurately, you probably have already done so and gone with leisure.) I don't think anyone should plead lack of musical talent as an issue though—unless you've actually composed enough music to know that you have no talent, it doesn't make a lot of sense. :P
Quote from: amw on October 27, 2013, 01:55:14 PM
Of course, if the main problem is that you're simply too busy with work/school/golf/children to compose there's less advice I can offer.
I included my reason, I have to wait until he's at school or asleep, which for the latter I'm normally having to drink something strong to keep myself awake to write anything.
And then you're in a space where it's probably the caffeine writing . . . .
Quote from: amw on October 27, 2013, 01:55:14 PM
To be honest I don't see what stops people from composing if they can come up with ideas. Usually the ideas (and the work ethic >.>) are the hard part, not the technical knowledge.
If you can read music, you can write music.
And if you can read, you can write. Get to it,
Shakespeare! ;)
if i ever decide to actually write anything new and take it seriously [it's been like 4 years since the last one]:
psalm settings for trebles and bells/percussion
sonata for electric guitar and piano
the well-tempered bagatelles for piano
an album-length electronic suite in just intonation using only sine waves
settings of garcia lorca's later poems for tenor, choir and chamber orchestra
an album of guitar/piano/voice pop-style love songs for a certain someone
Quote from: amw on October 27, 2013, 01:55:14 PM
To be honest I don't see what stops people from composing if they can come up with ideas. Usually the ideas (and the work ethic >.>) are the hard part, not the technical knowledge.
If you can read music, you can write music;
I think ideas are the easy part. Knowing what to do with it is much more difficult and takes much training and failure.
Quote from: relm1 on October 29, 2013, 06:43:15 AM
I think ideas are the easy part. Knowing what to do with it is much more difficult and takes much training and failure.
That last is very true. But coming up with a good
original idea is dauntingly difficult!
I've done some composing. It's not easy! But if I were an established composer, I would like to write a symphonic suite for rock band and chamber orchestra. 8) (The orchestra would probably have to be amplified, of course. :o)
Quote from: amw on October 27, 2013, 01:55:14 PM
To be honest I don't see what stops people from composing if they can come up with ideas. Usually the ideas (and the work ethic >.>) are the hard part, not the technical knowledge.
If you can read music, you can write music; there's free software out there (MuseScore, Finale Notepad, Lilypond—which is text-based but you can also install a GUI like Frescobaldi to go with it) that will let you put notes down and hear them played back on rudimentary midi sounds. Finale or Sibelius is worth having if you're planning to compose a lot, but since the main advantages are professional looking scores and better sound quality (and not much else) think hard before you set yourself back 40-50 CDs ;). If you can't read music, you can try to learn >.>, or you can record yourself playing the ideas on your instrument and transcribe them into a DAW like Cubase/Logic/Pro Tools as many film composers do these days (although those will also take a few dozen CDs out of your budget). You can also use DAWs and sequencers even if you can't either read music or play an instrument; the interface is usually more piano-roll style for computer-generated sounds, and waveform style for samples. If you have lots of time, money and hard disk space on your hands you can shell out for a professional sample library like VSL and make lesser composers burn in envy.
Of course, if the main problem is that you're simply too busy with work/school/golf to compose there's less advice I can offer. You'll probably have to weigh leisure activities (including listening to music) against your desire to write. (Well, more accurately, you probably have already done so and gone with leisure.) I don't think anyone should plead lack of musical talent as an issue though—unless you've actually composed enough music to know that you have no talent, it doesn't make a lot of sense. :P
Very interesting post. About ideas versus technical knowledge, I find myself in the opposite position. I have many great ideas, yet I lack an ability to get them down on paper.
I think it is very similar to the machine design engineering classes I took in college. It was always easy to come up with ideas that solved given problems, but when trying to
realize them you are confronted to work out all of the fine details -- the "nuts and bolts", so to speak. In doing so, many practical problems arise and it is often the case that ideas be re-thought in the process of realization. This is the part that requires skill obtained through practice and study.
I totally agree about reading music, though. So many people say that they want to learn piano/compose/etc, but they complain that they can't read music. Learn! It isn't hard, really! Anyone can do it, especially if I can. Once you can read music, a door to a new, seemingly infinite world is opened to you.
Quote from: amw on October 27, 2013, 01:55:14 PM
To be honest I don't see what stops people from composing if they can come up with ideas.
Take this idea, and apply it to another artistic discipline: Do you see what stops people from
painting, if they can come up with ideas?
Put another way: Anybody with a guitar is a songwriter; anybody who can putter with a guitar (or plink some piano keys) can have ideas. You do see that the art of composition is more than just getting an idea?
An exanmple straight from the musical world:
Paul McCartney had the ideas for Liverpool Oratorio, and had the wherewithal to arrange that other people see to the execution of the ideas, notationally. I've not heard the piece, so I have no opinion; but my impression is that views are mixed at best as to the musical merits of the result.
Quote from: karlhenning on July 01, 2014, 04:07:45 AM
Take this idea, and apply it to another artistic discipline: Do you see what stops people from painting, if they can come up with ideas?
Even less so. Hand any child a brush and they will paint. (I mean obviously some people can't paint because they're blind or have dysgraphia or some other thing.)
Of course the paintings probably won't be any
good, but that's where the hard work comes in. Still, in composition, the ideas go along with the work, as every decision made while writing it out—whether macro or micro—necessitates new ideas.
I mean let's say your basic idea is "A massive Symphony, conveying a sense of impending catastrophe, mournful despair, hauting dread - ultimately resolving itself into a sense of grimly hopeless defiance. (- vandermolen, page 1)" Then you have to make the decisions: how does this Symphony begin, how does it end, what is the main theme/idea/thread of the music, what (if anything) is it placed in opposition to... etc. Each one of these answers will then raise new questions, e.g.: Will the Symphony be in one continuous span or multiple movements? (multiple.) How many movements? (three, Moderato ombroso e minaccioso, Allegro appassionato and Adagio doloroso.) What will happen in the first movement? (X, Y and Z.) How will X, Y and Z be articulated to the listener? (Through a massive tonal conflict between the blablabla main theme A and the contrasting theme B, both of which are united by the fate-rhythm C.) And so on until one gets down to the micro-level of putting sounds down in sequence. Should the next note be B-flat or B-natural? (B-natural.) Why? (It sounds right to me.) Etc.
I suppose the "musical training" part of this is knowing what questions to ask, as well as understanding that the more you write, the more the composition takes on a life of its own and one's earlier decisions have to be re-evaluated in light of this. But that can be learned, if you have the ideas, the desire to make anything of them and the
time to commit to composition. The only real way to learn to compose is by composing. Same with any art form, or anything else really.
Quote from: amw on July 01, 2014, 04:52:44 AM
Even less so. Hand any child a brush and they will paint. (I mean obviously some people can't paint because they're blind or have dysgraphia or some other thing.)
Of course the paintings probably won't be any good, but that's where the hard work comes in. Still, in composition, the ideas go along with the work, as every decision made while writing it out—whether macro or micro—necessitates new ideas.
Composition
or painting, the ideas and the work go together; and in both, having ideas doesn't mean having the tools to make a good
composition (composition is also one of the disciplines of painting).
The acquisition of technique does not make up for lack of talent, but it aids talent. Talent without technique, gets only so far.
Quote from: karlhenning on July 01, 2014, 05:04:12 AM
The acquisition of technique does not make up for lack of talent, but it aids talent. Talent without technique, gets only so far.
I'm never quite sure what people mean by "technique"... unless they're talking about harmony and counterpoint exercises and that sort of thing. By "work" I mean actually sitting down and writing out your composition, for which the only technical requirements are—if the music is for acoustic instruments—an understanding of music notation and a "feel" for the instruments which admittedly goes beyond merely knowing the range and timbre (perhaps more accurately an empathy with instrumentalists?) but is still something that can be learned if people are inclined. Anything beyond that is determined entirely by your imagination.
I pretty much agree, with the understanding that there's a lot of unpacking to be done with an understanding of music notation.
Quote from: EigenUser on July 01, 2014, 02:35:47 AM
Very interesting post. About ideas versus technical knowledge, I find myself in the opposite position. I have many great ideas, yet I lack an ability to get them down on paper.
I think it is very similar to the machine design engineering classes I took in college. It was always easy to come up with ideas that solved given problems, but when trying to realize them you are confronted to work out all of the fine details -- the "nuts and bolts", so to speak. In doing so, many practical problems arise and it is often the case that ideas be re-thought in the process of realization. This is the part that requires skill obtained through practice and study.
I totally agree about reading music, though. So many people say that they want to learn piano/compose/etc, but they complain that they can't read music. Learn! It isn't hard, really! Anyone can do it, especially if I can. Once you can read music, a door to a new, seemingly infinite world is opened to you.
I recently saw a cool thing on Youtube I was going to mention to you
Nate: Orchestration 101.
I would like to read music but am thwarted by forces beyond my control: laziness, lassitude, yet more laziness, and a reluctance to work at it. 8)
Actually I did, long ago, learn the basic ideas, and even was able to kinda sorta a little bit read along with a few minutes of Mozart's 41.
Anyone know a good very basic book that comes with listening examples?
Quote from: Ken B on July 01, 2014, 11:25:21 AM
I recently saw a cool thing on Youtube I was going to mention to you Nate: Orchestration 101.
I would like to read music but am thwarted by forces beyond my control: laziness, lassitude, yet more laziness, and a reluctance to work at it. 8)
Actually I did, long ago, learn the basic ideas, and even was able to kinda sorta a little bit read along with a few minutes of Mozart's 41.
Anyone know a good very basic book that comes with listening examples?
Orchestration 101 = Ravel's orchestral output. My orchestration skills improved enormously after studying and getting to know his work. My problem is that I don't have much that is worth orchestrating :(. In the words of Jack Nicholson in "The Shining", "Lots of ideas; no good ones!". (*cue Lontano*).
Is there a link for the video?
I don't know of any basic books since I was taught early on in private lessons and elementary school. I'm sure that you can find all you need online, but I suspect that you are probably like me in that you like having a hard copy (I might be one of the few left in my generation).
Eulenberg, a series of miniature scores published by Schott, has a great resources on how to follow along with a score while listening. It's quite amazing to do this because you hears so many things that you didn't know were there. From then on, you will likely always hear these things with or without the score, whether it be an instrumental doubling or a whole counter-melody that you never noticed.
http://www.eulenburg.de/en_UK/partitur_lesen/partitur_einstieg/index.html
Quote from: EigenUser on July 02, 2014, 02:21:02 AM
Orchestration 101 = Ravel's orchestral output. My orchestration skills improved enormously after studying and getting to know his work. My problem is that I don't have much that is worth orchestrating :(. In the words of Jack Nicholson in "The Shining", "Lots of ideas; no good ones!". (*cue Lontano*).
Is there a link for the video?
I don't know of any basic books since I was taught early on in private lessons and elementary school. I'm sure that you can find all you need online, but I suspect that you are probably like me in that you like having a hard copy (I might be one of the few left in my generation).
Eulenberg, a series of miniature scores published by Schott, has a great resources on how to follow along with a score while listening. It's quite amazing to do this because you hears so many things that you didn't know were there. From then on, you will likely always hear these things with or without the score, whether it be an instrumental doubling or a whole counter-melody that you never noticed.
http://www.eulenburg.de/en_UK/partitur_lesen/partitur_einstieg/index.html
Links from here too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAntqlinCbk
I can see using an iPad app that highlights notes as music sounds, but basically yeah, I want a decent hard copy.
There's been recent discussion about ideas vs. technique, knowledge and the thorough working out of a composition. I brought up the issue of ideas in this thread two years ago, for a reason. I'm a musician myself, a guitarist and pretty good solo improvisor in jazz, folk and rock, and a classical music fan. But though I can ring variations on other musicians' melodies, I have never in my life had a decent idea for an original melody myself, of the type that might lead to a song or a sonata. On the other hand, a few people I've known over the years have had original melodies pop into their heads, one in particular quite frequently. This person is a music fan but not a musician. So I was struck by the fact that the gift of melodic ideas is rare, and perhaps should be exploited where it exists. I'm not trying to deny that creating music is only partly inspiration and also a lot of hard work.
You recall what Edison said . . . .