An actual infographic from Vanity Fair:
(http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/2011/12/60-minutes-poll-201112/jcr:content/par/cn_contentwell/par-main/cn_pagination_contai/cn_slideshow/item6.rendition.slideshowHorizontal.sixty-minutes-7.jpg)
Got it, the Gipper vs FDR. Why, though, was Old Tippecanoe included in the list of names? A rather odd choice.
Strange they didn't put Eisenhower in to sort of balance the question more (unless this is the answer they wanted)....
Good to see Jefferson put in his place, of course. [ ← sarcasm! ]
Andrew Jackson, the Bank Killer, please. :-*
Quote from: snyprrr on November 01, 2011, 07:53:42 AM
Andrew Jackson, the Bank Killer, please. :-*
Oh yeah- party in the WH...
Quote from: karlhenning on November 01, 2011, 07:34:16 AM
Good to see Jefferson put in his place, of course.
I thought Republicans and Tea Partiers were big on the Founding Fathers. They do go on about those radicals. Apparently I was wrong ;D
Sarge
I thought this was about loudspeakers, not about loud speakers.
Actually, three of the choices are totally bizarre. Why Truman? Why Jefferson? Why WHH?
Are you sure this isn't a joke?
By the way, although I love James K Polk, I'd go with Theodore.
At least Reagan did not pimp out 16 year old boys to entrap and prosecute suspected homosexuals in the military (FDR really did this before he got elected)
Quote from: bwv 1080 on November 01, 2011, 04:34:09 PMAt least Reagan did not pimp out 16 year old boys to entrap and prosecute suspected homosexuals in the military (FDR really did this before he got elected)
And that's still much better than how he treated Japanese Americans.
Quote from: bwv 1080 on November 01, 2011, 04:34:09 PM
At least Reagan did not pimp out 16 year old boys to entrap and prosecute suspected homosexuals in the military (FDR really did this before he got elected)
You make this sound like a special vice of FDR's. Had Reagan lived at that time (or rather, had Reagan reigned served as President at that time), would he really not have, do you believe?
Quote from: Todd on November 01, 2011, 05:58:05 PM
And that's still much better than how he treated Japanese Americans.
Again, are we singling out an individual for flaws of the greater commonality? Even if not quite so harshly and spectacularly, German-Americans suffered persecutions (or, Anglicized their names in order to avoid such unpleasantness) during the first world war. I don't say that FDR was any better than he ought to have been, but this exchange seems like criticizing Elizabeth I for not bathing more frequently.
I just went to the poll (and voted), and FDR's now in the lead, 43% to Reagan's 36% (though if you don't vote, you don't see the most recent results! You'd think Reagan's still in the lead). The others are still in the same order, with 13%, 5%, and 2%.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-20127232/60-minutes-vanity-fair-poll-november-edition/?pageNum=7&tag=contentMain;contentBody
Not that I think the results of such a poll are of any importance at all.
Quote from: karlhenning on November 02, 2011, 02:31:49 AMAgain, are we singling out an individual for flaws of the greater commonality?
Yes, for you see FDR was the President, and one with enormous war powers, not just
an individual. It's amusing to see apologies for egregious acts, especially when they include comparisons to
bathing. There's a rather wide gulf between personal hygiene and sending an entire population to internment camps, don't you think?
Quote from: Wendell_E on November 02, 2011, 03:50:39 AMNot that I think the results of such a poll are of any importance at all.
Of course they're not, but they are fun. Still perplexed about Harrison.
Quote from: Todd on November 02, 2011, 06:37:24 AMYes, for you see FDR was the President, and one with enormous war powers, not just an individual. It's amusing to see apologies for egregious acts, especially when they include comparisons to bathing. There's a rather wide gulf between personal hygiene and sending an entire population to internment camps, don't you think?
Very wide, indeed.
Wider than the distinction between my post and "apologies for egregious acts," but let that pass.
Quote from: karlhenning on November 02, 2011, 02:27:30 AM
You make this sound like a special vice of FDR's. Had Reagan lived at that time (or rather, had Reagan reigned served as President at that time), would he really not have, do you believe?
As Assistant Sec of the Navy, FDR set up questionable entrapment methods (i.e. pimping out 16 YO boys) to purge homosexuals out of the Naval base at Newport RI. Not content with his success among military personnel, he personally ordered Naval Intelligence to turn the same tactics on the civilian population of Newport, ensnaring among others the Episcopal Bishop of Rhode Island. These actions were outrageous even for the time (1919-1920), earning him a rebuke by congress
Quote from: toucan on November 02, 2011, 10:14:53 AM
... as President presided over a revification of traditional - i.e. biblical - morality; ...
This is simply not true.
Quote from: bwv 1080 on November 02, 2011, 06:48:26 AM
These actions were outrageous even for the time (1919-1920), earning him a rebuke by congress
They did
what to him? :-[
Quote from: toucan on November 02, 2011, 10:38:42 AM
Why do you say things like this?! For better or for worse, it is a matter of fact that the sixties cultural movement ceased being the preminent one during the 1980's and that Reagan's appeals to the so-called silent majority (and the not so silent Moral Majority) contributed to this change of mood.
My, since then even France of all countries has become more moralistic, with the writer Gabriel Matzneff for instance encurring an amount of insult that would not have been conceivable during his youth, when the writer Henry de Montherlant advised him - rightly - the time was ripe for more openness on certain issues.
Of course you can bring me plently of examples of freedom from said morality in our times; but then they no more change the general picture than the pornographic literature of the Victorian Era, or the libertism in the age of Cromwell and Puritanism, or the epicurism and atheism in existence in Paris during the Middle Ages.
It is far more complicated than this. The bigger event is the end of the Vietnam War, which cannot be attributed to him for sure. Did he play his part in the changes of that time, sure - all Presidents do. He was also very good at bringing pride in America back, which was sorely lacking after Vietnam, Watergate, Iran hostage issue, etc. But he is merely one of many cogs at that time.
Quote from: The new erato on November 01, 2011, 03:17:03 PM
I thought this was about loudspeakers, not about loud speakers.
Same here. ;)
Quote from: mc ukrneal on November 02, 2011, 10:30:10 AM
This is simply not true.
Clearly you don't know the meaning of the word "revification".
I'll clue you in.
It doesn't mean anything.
So wouldn't you agree that Reagan had a big part in the revification?
Quote from: mc ukrneal on November 02, 2011, 10:54:21 AM
He was also very good at bringing pride in America back, which was sorely lacking after Vietnam, Watergate, Iran hostage issue, etc. But he is merely one of many cogs at that time.
That doesn't mean anything. Hitler brought back pride too.
Quote from: Herman on November 02, 2011, 10:57:57 AM
Clearly you don't know the meaning of the word "revification".
I'll clue you in.
It doesn't mean anything.
So wouldn't you agree that Reagan had a big part in the revification?
I assumed he meant revival. It seems to fit the context.
Quote from: Herman on November 02, 2011, 11:00:49 AM
That doesn't mean anything. Hitler brought back pride too.
Ok. And?
Quote from: mc ukrneal on November 02, 2011, 11:02:52 AM
Ok. And?
the argumentum ad hitlerum trumps everything - nothing more to say
(http://orangepunch.ocregister.com/files/2010/06/Hitler-salute.jpg)
You know, it may be a lark to create a new thread that tracks the number of posts in politically oriented threads before one of the below fallback terms is used.
In this thread it took 23 responses.
The List
1 - Hitler
2 - Stalin
3 - Mao
4 - Marx
5 - Socialism/Socialist
6 - Fascism/Fascist
7 - Laissez faire
Anything of note left off?
Quote from: Todd on November 02, 2011, 11:44:12 AM
You know, it may be a lark to create a new thread that tracks the number of posts in politically oriented threads before one of the below fallback terms is used.
In this thread it took 23 responses.
The List
1 - Hitler
2 - Stalin
3 - Mao
4 - Marx
5 - Socialism/Socialist
6 - Fascism/Fascist
7 - Laissez faire
Anything of note left off?
At this point in our history, if any discussion doesn't START with one of those, that's the one to watch out for! ;)
Quote from: Brian on November 01, 2011, 03:21:10 PM
Actually, three of the choices are totally bizarre. Why Truman? Why Jefferson? Why WHH?
Are you sure this isn't a joke?
By the way, although I love James K Polk, I'd go with Theodore.
Indeed, why no Teddy Roosevelt? The only NYPD commissioner who ever became NYS governor then the president. There is a certain Democrat bias in putting this list together.
Quote from: Wendell_E on November 02, 2011, 03:50:39 AM
I just went to the poll (and voted), and FDR's now in the lead, 43% to Reagan's 36% (though if you don't vote, you don't see the most recent results! You'd think Reagan's still in the lead). The others are still in the same order, with 13%, 5%, and 2%.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-20127232/60-minutes-vanity-fair-poll-november-edition/?pageNum=7&tag=contentMain;contentBody
Not that I think the results of such a poll are of any importance at all.
Reagan and FDR were no doubt the two most important presidents of the 20th century. I also think Teddy Roosevelt was very significant as a trust busting Republican president.
Quote from: Coopmv on November 06, 2011, 11:51:37 AM
Indeed, why no Teddy Roosevelt? The only NYPD commissioner who ever became NYS governor then the president. There is a certain Democrat bias in putting this list together.
Funny. I thought it was a clear Republican bias in that it seems to want to get Reagan to win. FDR is more likely to lose votes to Truman than Reagan is to Harrison (who was a Whig).
Quote from: Coopmv on November 06, 2011, 12:01:37 PM
Reagan and FDR were no doubt the two most important presidents of the 20th century. I also think Teddy Roosevelt was very significant as a trust busting Republican president.
I for one "doubt" - I would put TR very much ahead of Reagan. For as much as Reagan had a hand in bringing the Cold War to a successful and mainly stable conclusion, TR achieved an extraordinary amount that is easy to forget about today: the National Park Service, the first incarnation of the FDA, new business reforms, and in foreign policy he negotiated an end to the Russo-Japanese War on his yacht (winning the Nobel Peace Prize for it) and narrowly avoided war with Germany in 1903, in a Cuba-blockade-style staredown between global powers which required his most fearsome "big stick" powers to pull off.
A lot of Theodore Roosevelt's presidential agenda was rejected at the time but came to pass later: he was a supporter of the vote for women, a proponent of federal income and estate taxes, and wanted to limit ways in which labor unions had to compensate businesses for strikes. These failings don't really prevent him from having been one of the two or three most powerful - that is, the most able to do things - presidents in American history.
Quote from: Brian on November 06, 2011, 12:23:13 PM
I for one "doubt" - I would put TR very much ahead of Reagan. For as much as Reagan had a hand in bringing the Cold War to a successful and mainly stable conclusion, TR achieved an extraordinary amount that is easy to forget about today: the National Park Service, the first incarnation of the FDA, new business reforms, and in foreign policy he negotiated an end to the Russo-Japanese War on his yacht (winning the Nobel Peace Prize for it) and narrowly avoided war with Germany in 1903, in a Cuba-blockade-style staredown between global powers which required his most fearsome "big stick" powers to pull off.
A lot of Theodore Roosevelt's presidential agenda was rejected at the time but came to pass later: he was a supporter of the vote for women, a proponent of federal income and estate taxes, and wanted to limit ways in which labor unions had to compensate businesses for strikes. These failings don't really prevent him from having been one of the two or three most powerful - that is, the most able to do things - presidents in American history.
Here is some interesting anecdote on the Roosevelts.
Whenever a Republican governor moves into the governor's mansion in Albany NY, the portrait of Teddy goes up in the main room. If a Democratic governor moves in, the portrait of FDR goes up.