GMG Classical Music Forum

I've been on an intense Bruckner mission the past week. Returning to old favorites and also exploring unfamiliar heavyweights. Bruckner was a composer I arrived to at an early age, along with Mahler and R.Strauss, mainly because of their incredible and challenging writing for brass instruments (I played horn, my brother trombone). He went missing from my playlist for quite sometime, and his return is a most welcomed one.
Bruckner seems to be one of the more popular composers here at GMG, and I have read some insightful and personal posts about his music.
I wanted to explore more about the many interpreters of Bruckner's oeuvre, I have some favorites that have been that way for many years (like Dohnanyi) and some recent discoveries (Celibidache) that have brought new observations.

I wanted to know more about some of your favorite Bruckner interpreters, and what about their recordings or performances made it that way. Why it affects you more than others. And remember, this is about YOUR favorites, not what is considered the benchmarks.

The poll is not necessarily to determine a winner, but just to get an idea of the general consensus. And I realize I have missed some conductors and I apologize, I have set the poll so users can change their votes. So inform me of a name, or names, I have omitted and I will add them.

Thank you for the participation.  ;D

I picked three...but would dispense with Karajan (sacrilege!) and bring in Kubelik, who is not on the list.  Wand is my number one, in particular his BPO stuff, though I play the Cologne RSO more.  Bring Kubelik in please!

Quote from: Scots John on February 02, 2013, 04:45:39 PM
I picked three...but would dispense with Karajan (sacrilege!) and bring in Kubelik, who is not on the list.  Wand is my number one, in particular his BPO stuff, though I play the Cologne RSO more.  Bring Kubelik in please!

Done.  :)

No Giulini?

Quote from: Mirror Image on February 02, 2013, 05:49:50 PM
No Giulini?

Another addition.

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on February 02, 2013, 06:08:10 PM
Another addition.

Thanks, Greg. Now I can vote! 8)

I voted for Karajan (my absolute favourite Bruckner interpreter), Sinopoli and Tintner.
But, on second thoughts, Furtwängler also recorded excellent versions of symphonies No.4, No.5 and No.7.

Hey, Greg. You should add Skrowaczewski.

Sarge

This is tough...not the first two choices (Maazel and Celibidache, no doubts, no indecision) but the third. Of the other conductors who have recorded all the symphonies (or nearly all) none are entirely successful in pleasing me. Recall, for example, the Karajan/Wand Death Match...which ended in a tie. Chailly strikes me as rather cold and clinical in general. Jochum...never a favorite. Haitink has his moments, especially the later recordings, but too few to be a contender. I haven't heard enough of Skrowaczewsk's cycle to make an informed decision. Ditto Inbal and Davies.

I love Szell's Bruckner but he only conducted 3, 7, 8 and 9. Klemperer recorded great performances of 4, 5 and 6 and a fascinating 7 but I dislike his 8 and 9. My favorite versions (beyond Maazel and Celi) are all over the map: Blunier 0, Wand 1, Barenboim 2, Szell 3, Karajan EMI 4 and Wand 4 (his last recording), Dohnányi 5, Klemperer 6 and his Bizzaro world counterpart, Norrington 6, Chailly and Karajan 7, Boulez and Szell 8, Guilini, Haitink and Jochum EMI 9.

I suppose it comes down to Wand or Karajan...but they tend to cancel each other out. I've always loved Karajan's way with Bruckner (if not always the sound of his DG recordings) but Wand has grown on me in the last few years (in part due to Jens' passionate advocacy). Barenboim tends to cancel himself out  :D  I like the Berlin cycle; don't like the Chicago. Hmmmmm....

Sarge

I voted for Jochum and Giulini.  Great poll, Greg!  :)

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on February 02, 2013, 04:28:07 PM
I've been on an intense Bruckner mission the past week.

In a sense, I have been on an intense Bruckner mission for most of my life!   ;)

We have discussed some time ago what might be called the problem of "imprinting," i.e. when one first hears the work of a composer and is "wowed" by it, that specific performance becomes imprinted as "the way to do it."  It takes effort then to accept other performances.

On that basis, I am heavily biased 50 years later by Eugen Jochum's DGG recordings, but have loosened up in recent years.   0:)   e.g. The Tintner recordings of original versions of the early symphonies are now on my shelves.

But what about Carl Schuricht for the list?  I do not think he ever recorded a complete cycle (a few websites indicate that he did not), but certainly he was known in the 1950's and '60's as a fine interpreter.

Great comments, everyone. I've added a few into the poll as requested.

I voted for Wand, Celibidache, and Giulini. If I could have included a fourth choice then I would have picked Karl Bohm who I still feel is an underrated Brucknerian.

Probably the easiest such poll I've seen.  Celi and Jochum for all those recordings, and then, standing head and shoulders above all others, Carlo Maria Giulini for his DG recordings of the last two symphonies.  Two of the greatest symphonic recordings yet made.

John and Todd giving high compliments to Giulini, will have to give him a try. Interesting (and in no way wrong) considering he has only recorded a small amount of the symphonies.

Nobody beats Giulini's 9th performance with the Vienna Philharmonic. Nobody. One of my most treasured recordings of my Bruckner collection.

^^I got the Giulini 8th about a month ago - reminds me I need to give it a spin!
Edit: My poll options: Chailly, Jochum, Karajan

Quote from: Mirror Image on February 03, 2013, 08:45:19 AM
Nobody beats Giulini's 9th performance with the Vienna Philharmonic. Nobody. One of my most treasured recordings of my Bruckner collection.

I'm not so sure. Have you heard the Haitink/Concerthebouw (not the one in the set, but the one he did later)?

i believe i'll write in heinz bongartz.

[cough] Simone Young

Quote from: aukhawk on February 03, 2013, 11:45:26 PM
[cough] Simone Young

Amazon has mainly rave reviews for her SACD recordings, some of which however are already out of print.

She uses the original version of the Bruckner Symphony #8 which has a triumphal end for the first movement.

Does anyone here at GMG know these?  I assume Aukhawk does!   8)

The trouble with a poll is, that even an ignoramus (such as I) has a vote . . . in my case case, the "three favorite Bruckner interpreters" will essentially mean the three conductors whom I have heard conduct Bruckner symphonies . . . but heck, this is GMG: I shall cast my vote!

EDIT :: What!? No Giulini?! I'm not voting!!! : )

Quote from: karlhenning on February 04, 2013, 09:17:50 AM
The trouble with a poll is, that even an ignoramus (such as I) has a vote . . . in my case case, the "three favorite Bruckner interpreters" will essentially mean the three conductors whom I have heard conduct Bruckner symphonies . . . but heck, this is GMG: I shall cast my vote!

EDIT :: What!? No Giulini?! I'm not voting!!! : )

Hey Karl!  Which conductor(s) have you heard in Bruckner?

Quote from: Cato on February 04, 2013, 09:22:18 AM
Hey Karl!  Which conductor(s) have you heard in Bruckner?

Giulini, Wand, and (soon!) Haitink. Oh, and Masur (live with the BSO). There was also López-Cobos (in the Sixth), but I do not recall how that one hit me.

I didn't vote. Though 12 different conductors are represented in my Bruckner collection, except for Jochum and Karajan I have only one or two recordings by each. I'm not a big Bruckner fan and really connect only with Symphonies 4-7, and I'm just not familiar with enough the work of most conductors to have an informed opinon.

As is, only Karajan would make my list of favorite 3. What turns me off about his work with most other composers -- with whom he seems studied, self-important, ponderous, joyless -- works perfectly with Bruckner. He's pompous, grave, big, lush, indulgent, and takes himself much too seriously, but with Bruckner the outcome is beautiful, even magnificent, with their excesses somehow cancelling each other to illuminate the heart of Bruckner's spiritual striving instead of the pompous klutziness that impedes its realization. 

Surprisingly, Nagano might be a contender, on the strength of his 4th, 6th, and 7th, but I'd like to hear more.

Stein's 6th is great but that's the only Bruckner of his I've heard.

Let the bashing begin.

PS --Hah, as I went to post this entry (having paused midway to brew some more coffee!), I discovered that Karl has just addressed the same issue. (Not that lack of familiarity or even complete ignorance usually stops most folks from holding and expressing strong opinions!) ;)

Hoy, Dave!

I am trending towards snaffling the HvK Bruckner set . . . perhaps the end of this week . . . .

Quote from: karlhenning on February 04, 2013, 09:31:46 AM
Hoy, Dave!

I am trending towards snaffling the HvK Bruckner set . . . perhaps the end of this week . . . .

Hey, Karl.  I already had his 4th and two of his 7ths. Snagged the cycle at a bargain price to improve my chances of liking Bruckner more (having Jochum's Dresden cycle as my only other complete set, along with several discs of single symphonies by various performers).  Haven't regretted it and happily recommend it.

Jurowski Janowski is I think an important interpreter now, though I only have an old 4th with a French orchestra (it's good).

I was also going to mention Stein, though I don't know what else besides 2 & 6 he's done.*  Those are pretty essential in my collection, not least for the sonics and the VPO.

* There was this:

http://www.amazon.de/Bruckner-Symphony-Original-version-Haas/dp/B000066NZU

ALSO, too: I'm surprised that Bohm did not get any votes.  His 4th is so often the "conventional" recommendation.  However, Decca/DG have not made his recordings of 3, 7 and 8 as ubiquitous.

Quote from: karlhenning on February 04, 2013, 09:17:50 AM
EDIT :: What!? No Giulini?! I'm not voting!!! : )

Giulini is there. Has four votes so far.

Sarge

Thanks, Sarge, How'd I miss him?

Voted : )

Quote from: Cato on February 04, 2013, 08:45:58 AM
[Simone Young]
Does anyone here at GMG know these?  I assume Aukhawk does!   8)

I bought her 3rd recently.  Only listened once so far (a little Bruckner goes a long way, with me).

I liked it very much - generally broad tempi, luscious modern recording.  Preferable to Haitink/Concergebouw, which is the other recording I have, which introduced me to Bruckner ooh, 43 years ago.
If I were looking for another 8th (neither Wand nor Boulez entirely satisfactory, for me) ... well I'd probably play safe and go for Jochum  ;) but if not that, I'd certainly consider Young.

Bohm - Jochum - Tennstedt

I can't believe I'm the only one who's voted for Kubelik. Hasn't anyone else heard his stunning (live) 9th on Orfeo? This alone should put him on the map.



(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/049/MI0001049840.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on February 07, 2013, 06:34:12 PM
I can't believe I'm the only one who's voted for Kubelik. Hasn't anyone else heard his stunning (live) 9th on Orfeo? This alone should put him on the map.

Sure, but this 9th is the only Kubelik Bruckner I've heard.  I have particular fond memories of when we played it at the Brucknerthon and a passing Amtrak train joined in with the horns at the end.

Quote from: Daverz on February 07, 2013, 06:42:30 PM
Sure, but this 9th is the only Kubelik Bruckner I've heard.  I have particular fond memories of when we played it at the Brucknerthon and a passing Amtrak train joined in with the horns at the end.

0:)

Did the train get a standing ovation?

Wand is easily my absolute favourite, though i can't consider myself a true Brucknerian, i don't have a phenomenal amount of recordings i voted for Wand / Solti / Barenboim, here's my favourite recordings,

Symphony 4 - Barenboim / Harnoncourt / Wand / Masur / Dohnanyi
Symphony 5 - Solti
Symphony 7 - Blomstedt
Symphony 8 - Wand / Haitink / Sinopoli / Harnoncourt
Symphony 9 - Tate

I like my Bruckner and Mahler more lyrical, less strident. Wand, Karajan, Bohm.

My first vote goes to Jochum for the excitment of the 7th, the 8th and the 9th from Dresden.

My second vote goes to Bohm whose old 27 minute Adagio of the 7th (I think that of 1943 - I have it on old Melodya LPs) is much more exciting than that of Jochum.

Maazel. Wand. Karajan. Guilini. Tintner. Colin Davis.

Quote from: Leo K. on February 08, 2013, 06:58:20 AM
Maazel. Wand. Karajan. Guilini. Tintner. Colin Davis.

So, for which three did you vote?

Quote from: Cato on February 04, 2013, 08:45:58 AM
Amazon has mainly rave reviews for her SACD recordings, some of which however are already out of print.

She uses the original version of the Bruckner Symphony #8 which has a triumphal end for the first movement.

Does anyone here at GMG know these?  I assume Aukhawk does!   8)

I have. Forgettable, actually. The rave reviews are understandable if you've never heard the original versions. I thought they were pretty decent performances too, until I heard Inbal, Schaller and Nagano, all of whom have recorded much more compelling performances of the original versions of these symphonies that hold together much better. I'd skip Young completely, especially at the premium SACD prices.

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on February 07, 2013, 06:34:12 PM
I can't believe I'm the only one who's voted for Kubelik. Hasn't anyone else heard his stunning (live) 9th on Orfeo? This alone should put him on the map.

Quote from: Daverz on February 07, 2013, 06:42:30 PM
Sure, but this 9th is the only Kubelik Bruckner I've heard.  I have particular fond memories of when we played it at the Brucknerthon and a passing Amtrak train joined in with the horns at the end.

I voted for Kubelik. One of my all time favorite conductors and in my mind one of the greatest Brucknerians. Don't forget these discs:

[asin]B00442M0NA[/asin]

Magnificent live B8 (better - both in sound quality and execution - than an earlier Orfeo release).

[asin]B0056K4VZO[/asin]

This set contains his Sony studio recordings of B4 and B3, which were previously available only in Japan as individual releases. The 3 is great, but the live version on audite below is probably a notch more, well, "alive". The 4 is my absolute favorite 4. I rate it more highly than Böhm or Wand or any of the other great 4s. The way Kubelik manages to pace the codas of the outer movements is simply glorious and a crowning of the traversal of each respective movement.

[asin]B0058SHV4M[/asin]

Aforementioned live B3.

[asin]B000OONQ2G[/asin]

Includes a performance of B4 with VPO. Excellent but not quite on the level of the BRSO studio 4 on Sony.

Quote from: karlhenning on February 08, 2013, 07:22:35 AM
So, for which three did you vote?

Hi Karl, I voted for Furtwangler, Maazel and Wand. Wand is my top choice :)

Rafael Kubelik is not to be forgotten for his Mahler or Hartmann performances.

Quote from: Cato on February 08, 2013, 09:57:03 AM
Rafael Kubelik is not to be forgotten for his Mahler or Hartmann performances.

Most definitely!

Quote from: MishaK on February 08, 2013, 08:48:50 AM
I voted for Kubelik. One of my all time favorite conductors and in my mind one of the greatest Brucknerians. Don't forget these discs:

Samples of that third sound enticing, indeed. Thanks for the mention.

bongartz was not on the list when i voted.  i hereby cast a vote for him  :)

 I vote for Furtwängler, Knappertsbusch, Karajan.

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on February 08, 2013, 08:32:36 PM
Samples of that third sound enticing, indeed. Thanks for the mention.

His 3rd is AWESOME, DD! Go for it! Buy it now! :D

What edition is Kubelik?

I'm finding myself separating the recordings of different editions (mainly with the 3rd and 4th) because they differ so much it's almost as if listening to an entirely different work.

 

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on February 20, 2013, 09:59:50 AM
What edition is Kubelik?

1878 Version Oeser. No Scherzo coda. Same version used by Haitink, Barenboim, Dohnányi and a few others.

Sarge

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on February 20, 2013, 09:59:50 AM
What edition is Kubelik?

I'm finding myself separating the recordings of different editions (mainly with the 3rd and 4th) because they differ so much it's almost as if listening to an entirely different work.

I'm maintaining a safe distance from the lip of that rabbit-hole, believe me : )

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on February 20, 2013, 10:03:27 AM
1878 Version Oeser. No Scherzo coda. Same version used by Haitink, Barenboim, Dohnányi and a few others.

Sarge

Merci!

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on February 20, 2013, 09:59:50 AM
What edition is Kubelik?

I'm finding myself separating the recordings of different editions (mainly with the 3rd and 4th) because they differ so much it's almost as if listening to an entirely different work.

The 1877/78 version.

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on February 20, 2013, 10:06:56 AM
Merci!

Our Sarge is a marvel : )

Incidentally:  I find that I have a duplicate copy of the Jesús López-Cobos/Cincinnati recording of the Sixth Symphony. It's free to a good home; PM me if you would like it.

I've been enjoying rozhdestvensky's Bruckner this week, I'm hearing different editions of these symphonies as a result, quite interesting!

Whew, the discography of Rozhdestvensky's Bruckner is a mess.

Quote from: Leo K. on February 20, 2013, 12:55:36 PM

Whew, the discography of Rozhdestvensky's Bruckner is a mess.

As is Svetlanov's Myaskovsky.

Quote from: Mirror Image on February 20, 2013, 09:53:40 AM
His 3rd is AWESOME, DD! Go for it! Buy it now! :D

Whoa...I just realized I have Kubelik's studio 3rd! I'd totally forgotten I had it - it was a gift from a friend.

I'll give that one listen MI and report back. :)

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on February 20, 2013, 07:55:36 PM
Whoa...I just realized I have Kubelik's studio 3rd! I'd totally forgotten I had it - it was a gift from a friend.

I'll give that one listen MI and report back. :)

I love his live 3rd, so I'll be interested in hearing your opinion, DD.

Quote from: Leo K. on February 20, 2013, 12:55:36 PM
I've been enjoying rozhdestvensky's Bruckner this week, I'm hearing different editions of these symphonies as a result, quite interesting!

Whew, the discography of Rozhdestvensky's Bruckner is a mess.

Tell me about it! I tried to listen to some of the stuff on Spotify. According to Berky, Rozh recorded just about every version of every symphony available to him at the time, but all the Rozh Bruckner recordings on Spotify appear to be multiple issues of just the standard later versions with various covers and in varying sound qualities. Interesting though Rozh is at times, the Russian brass just kills me. Especially the kazoo section... I mean, the trumpets.

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on February 20, 2013, 07:55:36 PM
Whoa...I just realized I have Kubelik's studio 3rd! I'd totally forgotten I had it - it was a gift from a friend.

I'll give that one listen MI and report back. :)

MI, that studio 3rd is the one I said I had found a thriller. It's in this:

[asin]B0056K4VZO[/asin]

along with Mozart (that I wasn't as fond of) and Schumann (that I certainly was).

Quote from: Brian on February 22, 2013, 07:40:52 AM
. . . along with Mozart (that I wasn't as fond of) . . . .

You anticipated my query, Brian : )

A little surprised that Harnoncourt hasn't received any votes, his recordings seemed to be well received (based on reviews both from professional publications and online reviewers).
I have his 5th and 9th and find much enjoyment from them, Harnoncourt is very different in his approach to this music, which might be accurately stated for most of his recordings regardless of the composer.

Would like to start having people list their favorite recordings of each symphony, although I feel that there may already be a thread that contains this.

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on February 22, 2013, 08:14:57 AM
Would like to start having people list their favorite recordings of each symphony, although I feel that there may already be a thread that contains this.

And if there is another thread, I wonder how this list matches that one  :D  Today I'm feeling the love for these:

0 - Blunier/Beethoven O Bonn
     Maazel/SOBR
     Barenboim/Chicago

1 - Wand/Kölner RSO
     Maazel/SOBR
     Tintner/Scottish National

2 - Barenboim/Berlin Phil
     Jochm/SOBR
     Tintner/NSO Ireland
     Maazel/SOBR

3 - Szell/Cleveland (Schalk)
     Maazel/SOBR
     Celibidache/Munich
     Marthé/European Phil
     Tinter/Scottish National

4 - Karajan/Berlin Phil (EMI)
     Wand/NDR SO
     Celibidache/Munich
     Nagano/Bayerisches StaatsO

5 - Dohnányi/Cleveland
     Celibidache/Munich
     Jochum/Concertgebouw
     Knappertsbusch/Vienna Phil (Schalk)

6 - Klemperer/Philharmonia
     Dohnányi/Cleveland
     Norrington/RSO Stuttgart
     Stein/Vienna Phil

7 - Chailly/RSO Berlin
      Karajan/Berlin Phil (EMI)
      Klemperer/Philharmonia

8 - Szell/Cleveland
     Maazel/Berlin Phil
     Celibidache/Munich
     Paita/Philharmonic SO

9 - Giulini/Vienna Phil
     Haitink/Concertgebouw
     Jochum/Dresden
     Marthé/European Phil (with a Finale completion)
     

Sarge

Thanks, Sarge.  ;D

I plan on making my list once I get through my new collection of Bruckner discs, (I have about 6-7 more to listen to from my recent splurge). Before this I was very keen on Barenboim and Dohnanyi's recordings, I still am, but have discovered a few more (like Wand/BPO's 8th) that are easy top choices for me now.

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on February 22, 2013, 08:58:02 AM
Thanks, Sarge.  ;D

I plan on making my list once I get through my new collection of Bruckner discs, (I have about 6-7 more to listen to from my recent splurge). Before this I was very keen on Barenboim and Dohnanyi's recordings, I still am, but have discovered a few more (like Wand/BPO's 8th) that are easy top choices for me now.

That Wand/Berlin 8th is a great interpretation and performance (it's Jens's favorite, and I can see why). But sonically it lets me down. The Finale's muddy coda buries intrumental detail--which rules it out for me as a top choice.

Sarge

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on February 22, 2013, 08:14:57 AM
A little surprised that Harnoncourt hasn't received any votes, his recordings seemed to be well received (based on reviews both from professional publications and online reviewers).
I have his 5th and 9th and find much enjoyment from them, Harnoncourt is very different in his approach to this music, which might be accurately stated for most of his recordings regardless of the composer.

His Bruckner is definitely always interesting. I just don't think he quite holds the whole together as well as the best. I do think his lecture on the finale fragments included on the bonus disc with his 9th is a must have for anyone with any serious interest in the 9th or in Bruckner's compositional process.

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on February 22, 2013, 08:14:57 AM
Would like to start having people list their favorite recordings of each symphony, although I feel that there may already be a thread that contains this.

00. (1863) - Skrowaczewski/Saarbrücken RSO
0. (1869) - Inbal/Frankfurt RSO, Barenboim/CSO, Skrowaczewski/Saarbrücken RSO
1. (1866) - Schaller/Philharmonie Festiva
1. (1877) - Skrowaczewski/Saarbrücken RSO, Barenboim/CSO
2. (1872) - Schaller/Philharmonie Festiva
2. (1877) - Barenboim/Berlin PO, Skrowaczewski/Saarbrücken RSO
3. (1873) - Inbal/Frankfurt RSO
3. Adagio (1876) - Tintner/RSNO (only because of the lack of alternatives)
3. (1877) - Gielen/SWR Baden-Baden/Freiburg, Haitink/VPO
3. (1878) - Kubelik/BRSO live audite
3. (1889) - Jochum/SK Dresden
3. (1890) - Schuricht/Vienna PO
4. (1874) - Inbal/Frankfurt RSO, Nagano/Bavarian State Opera Orch
4. Volksfest Finale (1878) - Tintner/RSNO (only because of lack of alternatives)
4. (1878/80) - Wand/Berlin PO, Kubelik/BRSO
4. (1888) - Vänskä/Minnesota O
5. (1878) - Barenboim/Berlin PO, Furtwängler/BPO, Asahina/Osaka Phil, Sinopoli/Dresden
6. (1881) - Skrowaczewski/Saarbrücken RSO, Barenboim/CSO
7. (1885) - Böhm/BRSO/Audite, Chailly Berlin RSO
8. (1887) - Inbal/Frankfurt RSO
8. (1887/90) - Kubelik/BRSO/BR Klassik, Boulez/VPO, Schuricht/VPO
8. (1890) - Tennstedt/London PO
9. (1894) - Skrowaczewski/Minnesota O, Barenboim/CSO, Wand/NDR(DVD)
9. (1896) finale fragments - Harnoncourt/Vienna PO
9. 2010 Carragan finale - Schaller/Phil Festiva
9. 2011 SCMP finale - Rattle/BPO

8)

Great list, MishaK. I see Inbal on there a few times, I like (most of) that set, especially the earlier works as you noted.

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on February 22, 2013, 10:07:53 AM
Great list, MishaK. I see Inbal on there a few times, I like (most of) that set, especially the earlier works as you noted.

Yes, he brings a unique fire and conviction to the early versions that others miss (and that is arguably somewhat missing in some of his own other recordings). It's also great that he doesn't overthink the early works and leads them with a natural lyricism.

My thanks to Sarge and MishaK for those favorite Bruckner lists; I am manic for lists, between my schematic tendencies and laziness.  I wonder if it would be useful to crosspost these lists to the "Bruckner's Abbey" thread in Composer Discussion, or even post such lists there instead.  I only say this because it's a slightly easier place to find whilst browsing..."Polling Station" can be a little tucked-away.
Whatever the case, I hope more of you draw up such informal lists!

I've added Venzago to the list. If anything for my own possible use of a vote. Just got through with his recording of 4 and 7 with the Basel Symphony Orchestra on Spotify, and I was taken by the highly expressive accounts. Some effective choices in tempi and phrasing that were new to my ears. Not sure I've heard such a dissection of Bruckner's music, but I can't wait to run through these again.

After some intense exploration of Bruckner's symphonies, I feel that I have compiled a solid list of my top choices for recordings. I will exclude his first three (F minor, D minor "Die Nullte" and No. 1) as I have only heard two-three recordings of each and don't believe I have enough of a variety to decide.

Symphony no 2 in C minor:
Tintner/Ireland National So (1872 version) - Besides the first three, this is another that I still need a little more time with, but have heard Karajan, Chailly, Young, Inbal, Venzago (which I enjoyed) and finally the Tintner. I definitely prefer the original version, mostly for placing the Adagio third (there is such a nice seque formed with this switch of the movements) and also prefer using the horn in the final bars of the Adagio as opposed to the clarinet, it is purely a personal choice. Tintner's overall statement is a long one, but never feels sluggish, and I feel this symphony has a nice pastoral feel to it (mainly the third and final movements which is another reason why I think they work well together) and the Ireland National S.O. offer a smooth quality in their tone that compliment this, but they can also turn on the fire when needed.
Symphony no 3 in D minor
Inbal/Franfurt Radio SO (1873 version)
Solti/Chicago S.O. (1877 Nowak)
Vanska/BBC Scottish S.O. (1877, with 1876 Adagio) - This was the toughest lot to choose, there are so many different versions of the 3rd to pick from, and they are all good. This is the symphony that I really enjoyed exploring the most, there is so much greatness to the 3rd that I was unaware of. The Solti has been with me for decades now, still remains a favorite, very polished. The Vanska performance is the most unique, a perfect flow throughout the four movements, plus I like how he really brings out a nice dance feel in the finale.
Symphony no 4 in E flat major "Romantic"
Nagano/Bavarian State Opera Orchestra (1874 version)
Dohnanyi/Cleveland O. (1881 Haas)
Venzago/Basel Symphony Orchestra (1886 Nowak) - I have always wanted my "Romantic" recordings to head towards the swifter side rather than broader. Also with a leaner-toned atmosphere, which I feel Dohnanyi and Cleveland accomplish in spades. The Nagano is the first performance to convince me that the original 4th is worthy of recognition. But the Venzago is the most perfect rendition of this lovely work I've encountered. At times sounds more classical than romantic in its approach, but that never diminishes it's beauty.
Symphony no 5 in B flat major
Chailly/Royal Concertgebouw (1875 Haas)
Celibidache/Munich Philharmonic Orchestra (1875) - For a long time I would regard No. 5 as the best of Bruckner. To me, it's his most majestic, it travels the universe and back. And Chailly and Celibidache achieve this more than any other.
Symphony no 6 in A major
Eschenbach/Houston or London Phil (1881)
Dohnanyi/Cleveland O. (1881)
Norrington/Stuttgart Radio Symphony Orchestra (1881) - Along with the 3rd, I found immense pleasure in becoming re-acquainted with the 6th. I still believe it contains the greatest moment of Bruckner's compositional career within the closing minutes of the opening Maestoso. These three (or four) choices couldn't be any more different. Eschenbach is great with both Houston or London Phil, but my purpose for choosing both is for his interpretation of the 6th, which both groups convey. Eschenbach takes many liberties with this music, stretching out key phrases and themes, and giving the 6th an overall grandiose feel. Dohnanyi and Cleveland are clean, crisp and perfectly balanced. And look, it's everyone's favorite crazy Uncle Roger. I'm a paying member of the Norrington fan club, but find this to be his  only success of his Bruckner series. Norrington zips through this piece, especially the finale, (12:39 compared to Dohnanyi 14:47, Eschenbach LPO 15:27) but he keeps it together and strongly convinces with his tempi. And kudos to the Stuttgart players, they keep up without ever missing a beat, literally  ;D and it's a live performance!
Symphony no 7 in E major
Chailly/Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra (1885 Nowak)
Herreweghe/Champs-Élysées Orchestra (1885) - Chailly is simply the best when it comes to the 7th. Not sure if Herreweghe's take would work on any other of Bruckner's symphonies (haven't heard the 4th or 5th from these forces) but it works here. It's light, and very lyrical. That's not a pun.
Symphony no 8 in C minor
Wand/Berlin Phil - I for one never got much from the 8th other than a long, brass-heavy filled finale with a kick-ass coda. Wand's live recording with Berlin is the first to convince me otherwise, that there are three other phenomanal movements, that together make for one long, brass-heavy filled 80 minutes...with a kick-ass coda. Brilliant stuff right here.
Symphony no 9 in D minor
Barenboim/Berlin Phil
Harnoncourt/Vienna Phil - Two very distinct performances. Barenboim is a bit more bleak whereas Harnoncourt offers a little more hope in the end.

Not if I'm late to vote, but if I still can: Jochum, Wand and Skrowaczewski. I am sorry to leave off the list to Giulini   :(

Quote from: Jean Rivier on April 05, 2013, 10:35:19 AM
Not if I'm late to vote, but if I still can: Jochum, Wand and Skrowaczewski. I am sorry to leave off the list to Giulini   :(

Never too late   :)

And after hearing Skrowaczewski's 5th, I may have to edit my recording pics to include it. More than likely replacing Celibidache's 5th.

I voted:

Böhm
Karajan
Tintner

I voted:

Karajan (probably the only context in which he'd make my top 3 ... or 10 ... or ....) ;)
Wand
Nagano (I don't really have another fave, except for certain symphony recordings, but I've heard several of Nagano's and think him surprisingly good!)

How come Dennis Russell Davies isn't an option:  Disdain? Unfamiliarity? Or just an oversight?

Quote from: DavidRoss on June 14, 2013, 03:55:35 PMKarajan (probably the only context in which he'd make my top 3 ... or 10 ... or ....) ;)

Recently I've been listening almost exclusively to Fluffy's recordings from the 60's or earlier (in contrast to the 70's recordings that dominate DG's release schedule) and I am finding his work most interesting for the non-standard non-germanic stuff.   His '63 Sacre du Printemps is quite interesting, as well as the Musorgsky, Debussy, Holst and Liszt.

Quote from: DavidRoss on June 14, 2013, 03:55:35 PM
I voted:

Karajan (probably the only context in which he'd make my top 3 ... or 10 ... or ....) ;)
Wand
Nagano (I don't really have another fave, except for certain symphony recordings, but I've heard several of Nagano's and think him surprisingly good!)

How come Dennis Russell Davies isn't an option:  Disdain? Unfamiliarity? Or just an oversight?

I like Nagano's 4th and 6th, both very good.

And the Russell Davies was an oversight, I'll add him.

  Had this been a Wagner Interpreter Thread I would have been able to participate more.  I only have one set, which I enjoy tremendously so I only cast one vote: Jochum on DG!  Yup this set:

  [asin]B00006YXOX[/asin]

  I thought this was definitive, I thought that I had reached Bruckner Nirvana, I thought that I did not need another set! Well??

  marvin

Quote from: marvinbrown on June 26, 2013, 05:19:37 AM
I only cast one vote: Jochum on DG! I thought this was definitive, I thought that I had reached Bruckner Nirvana, I thought that I did not need another set! Well??

  marvin

Bruckner Nirvana is found only in Celi's recordings  :D ;)

Sarge

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 26, 2013, 05:27:39 AM
Bruckner Nirvana is found only in Celi's recordings  :D ;)

Sarge

  Pardon the questions Sarge but......... WHO?? and WHY??

  marvin

Quote from: marvinbrown on June 26, 2013, 05:19:37 AM

  Had this been a Wagner Interpreter Thread I would have been able to participate more.  I only have one set, which I enjoy tremendously so I only cast one vote: Jochum on DG!  Yup this set:

  [asin]B00006YXOX[/asin]

  I thought this was definitive, I thought that I had reached Bruckner Nirvana, I thought that I did not need another set! Well??

  marvin

Amen, thou hast indeed entered BRUCKNER  0:) 0:) 0:) NIRVANA!  0:) 0:) 0:)

See ye not Hans Rott at the right hand of Bruckner, as he lashes and scalds the Schalk Brothers?!    ;)

This DGG Jochum is indeed the only one necessary...unless you really want to hear the Originalfassungen or the completion of the Ninth Symphony's Finale, or to see if...

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 26, 2013, 05:27:39 AM
Bruckner Nirvana is found only in Celi's recordings  :D ;)

Sarge

...that claim might be true!  "Celi" = Celibidache, who, I discovered by chance during a sojourn in Germany, had a female following of aggressive 60+ year old women ready to beat with their umbrellas any fool who dared to dispute that Celibidache was the GREATEST CONDUCTOR EVER! 

(An acquired taste, to be sure!  Celibidache, not 60-year old women!   ;)   Although...)

The DGG set has been fine with me for over 40 years now!   :o :o :o

Quote from: marvinbrown on June 26, 2013, 05:35:37 AM
  Pardon the questions Sarge but......... WHO?? and WHY??

  marvin

Sergiu Celibidache, the great Romanian conductor who took over the Berlin Phil at the end of the war after Furtwängler was booted out and ended his long career in charge of the Munich Phil. He was a disciple of Zen Buddhism and quite familiar with the concept of nirvana  :)

Sarge

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 26, 2013, 05:46:56 AM
Sergiu Celibidache, the great Romanian conductor who took over the Berlin Phil at the end of the war temporarily after (1) Furtwängler was booted outtemporarily barred from conducting pending denazification, and (2) the occupiers' first choice, Leo Borchard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Borchard), was shot dead by an American sentry and Celi ended his long career in charge of the Munich Phil.

Minor edits.  ;)

Quote from: Cato on June 26, 2013, 05:40:26 AM
Amen, thou hast indeed entered BRUCKNER  0:) 0:) 0:) NIRVANA!  0:) 0:) 0:)

See ye not Hans Rott at the right hand of Bruckner, as he lashes and scalds the Schalk Brothers?!    ;)

This DGG Jochum is indeed the only one necessary...unless you really want to hear the Originalfassungen or the completion of the Ninth Symphony's Finale, or to see if...

...that claim might be true!  "Celi" = Celibidache, who, I discovered by chance during a sojourn in Germany, had a female following of aggressive 60+ year old women ready to beat with their umbrellas any fool who dared to dispute that Celibidache was the GREATEST CONDUCTOR EVER! 

(An acquired taste, to be sure!  Celibidache, not 60-year old women!   ;)   Although...)

The DGG set has been fine with me for over 40 years now!   :o :o :o

  Thank you for this post Cato. Jochum's Bruckner has always been praised on many reviews. The vote in this poll reflects this.

 

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 26, 2013, 05:46:56 AM
Sergiu Celibidache, the great Romanian conductor who took over the Berlin Phil at the end of the war after Furtwängler was booted out and ended his long career in charge of the Munich Phil. He was a disciple of Zen Buddhism and quite familiar with the concept of nirvana  :)

Sarge

I have never heard of this conductor. Will need to investigate this.

marvin

Quote from: marvinbrown on June 26, 2013, 11:57:32 AM
I have never heard of this conductor. Will need to investigate this.

While he was alive, he refused to record. He believed music had to be heard live to be valid. He became something of a cult figure, known only through his concerts and a few bootlegs. It was only after his death in 1996 that his son authorized DG and EMI to release recordings of concerts that had been taped with his Stuttgart and Munich orchestras. His style was unique, eschewing sheer excitement for orchestral balance, color and spirituality. He was often massively slow (his Bruckner 4 & 8, his Scheherazade, his La Mer) and that trait is what many think is stereotypical Celi.  Besides his Bruckner, he was a great conductor of Debussy and Ravel, and the Russians.

Sarge

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 26, 2013, 12:24:42 PM
While he was alive, he refused to record. He believed music had to be heard live to be valid. He became something of a cult figure, known only through his concerts and a few bootlegs. It was only after his death in 1996 that his son authorized DG and EMI to release recordings of concerts that had been taped with his Stuttgart and Munich orchestras. His style was unique, eschewing sheer excitement for orchestral balance, color and spirituality. He was often massively slow (his Bruckner 4 & 8, his Scheherazade, his La Mer) and that trait is what many think is stereotypical Celi.  Besides his Bruckner, he was a great conductor of Debussy and Ravel, and the Russians.

Well.... critics of Celi might instead argue that his refusal to record was more a result and reaction to not being chosen as Furtwängler's official successor at the BPO after Furtwängler's death in 1954, that prize going to Karajan instead. As Karajan produced recordings the way normal people produce diary pages, Celi's religious refusal to record may have been an attempt at presenting himself as "holier than K". ;-) In any case, his "refusal" was somewhat hypocritical, since he did during his lifetime permit *video* recordings of his performances for broadcast (and likewise, I would assume that much of what he did at the helm of the SWR Stuttgart was broadcast via SWR radio). AFAIK, the official recordings blessed by his son post-mortem stem mostly from original broadcast tapes. His tempo choices are interesting. The slowness is more of a late development in his career. The SWR Bruckner recordings are pretty straightforward and middle of the road. It's only the late EMI Munich recordings that feature glacial tempos (and resultingly an amazing range of textures and colors not heard anywhere else). But oddly enough, even then these tempos were a selective choice, not a consistent religion, as evidenced by the fact that there are a number of recordings with Celi/Munich accompanying soloists (e.g. Barenboim in Brahms PCs 1&2, Tchaik 1 and Schumann), where tempos are once again pretty mainstream.

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 26, 2013, 12:24:42 PM
While he was alive, he refused to record. He believed music had to be heard live to be valid. He became something of a cult figure, known only through his concerts and a few bootlegs. It was only after his death in 1996 that his son authorized DG and EMI to release recordings of concerts that had been taped with his Stuttgart and Munich orchestras. His style was unique, eschewing sheer excitement for orchestral balance, color and spirituality. He was often massively slow (his Bruckner 4 & 8, his Scheherazade, his La Mer) and that trait is what many think is stereotypical Celi.  Besides his Bruckner, he was a great conductor of Debussy and Ravel, and the Russians.

Sarge

Quote from: MishaK on June 26, 2013, 01:20:28 PM
Well.... critics of Celi might instead argue that his refusal to record was more a result and reaction to not being chosen as Furtwängler's official successor at the BPO after Furtwängler's death in 1954, that prize going to Karajan instead. As Karajan produced recordings the way normal people produce diary pages, Celi's religious refusal to record may have been an attempt at presenting himself as "holier than K". ;-) In any case, his "refusal" was somewhat hypocritical, since he did during his lifetime permit *video* recordings of his performances for broadcast (and likewise, I would assume that much of what he did at the helm of the SWR Stuttgart was broadcast via SWR radio). AFAIK, the official recordings blessed by his son post-mortem stem mostly from original broadcast tapes. His tempo choices are interesting. The slowness is more of a late development in his career. The SWR Bruckner recordings are pretty straightforward and middle of the road. It's only the late EMI Munich recordings that feature glacial tempos (and resulting an amazing range of textures and colors not heard anywhere else). But oddly enough, even then these tempos were a selective choice, not a consistent religion, as evidenced by the fact that there are a number of recordings with Celi/Munich accompanying soloists (e.g. Barenboim in Brahms PCs 1&2, Tchaik 1 and Schumann), where tempos are once again pretty mainstream.

   I spent last night reading up on this "Celibidache" fellow and what a quirky, off centre individual he was!  It seems that he tried to transfer some of his "Buddhist" influences when conducting Bruckner, a spiritual "Christian" composer.  Talk about achieving Nirvana across the faiths!  Anyway that's not important, what is important though is that I already find Bruckner's music slow enough, any further attempt to slow things down might "DEADEN" the music.  But the two of you are arguing that this is not the case. Perhaps it is well worth exploring his recordings of Bruckner.

  "It's only the late EMI Munich recordings that feature glacial tempos (and resulting an amazing range of textures and colors not heard anywhere else"

  Is this the recording you recommend MishaK ?:

  [asin]B005HYNCTK[/asin]

  If so there have been complaints of incorrect CD packaging as late as 2012! Is this still the case?

  marvin

Quote from: marvinbrown on June 27, 2013, 01:03:59 AM
  Is this the recording you recommend MishaK ?:

  [asin]B005HYNCTK[/asin]

Yep. The SWR Bruckner on DG is forgettable.

Quote from: marvinbrown on June 27, 2013, 01:03:59 AM
If so there have been complaints of incorrect CD packaging as late as 2012! Is this still the case?

I have no idea. I have only the individual discs that were issued previously, not the new set.

Quote from: marvinbrown on June 27, 2013, 01:03:59 AM
  Is this the recording you recommend MishaK ?:

  [asin]B005HYNCTK[/asin]

  If so there have been complaints of incorrect CD packaging as late as 2012! Is this still the case?

  marvin

The original release was defective, yes. The boxes were withdrawn and several months later replaced with the correct discs. Anything offered by Amazon now should be okay.

Sarge

Quote from: MishaK on June 26, 2013, 01:20:28 PM
In any case, his "refusal" was somewhat hypocritical, since he did during his lifetime permit *video* recordings of his performances for broadcast (and likewise, I would assume that much of what he did at the helm of the SWR Stuttgart was broadcast via SWR radio).

Yes, I've always thought there was a bit of hypocrisy there (I mean, he became the conductor of a radio orchestra in Stuttgart!) but I suppose he'd rationalize that as being live performances in front of an audience rather than the "sterile" conditions of the studio.

Quote from: MishaK on June 26, 2013, 01:20:28 PM
The slowness is more of a late development in his career. The SWR Bruckner recordings are pretty straightforward and middle of the road. It's only the late EMI Munich recordings that feature glacial tempos (and resultingly an amazing range of textures and colors not heard anywhere else). But oddly enough, even then these tempos were a selective choice, not a consistent religion, as evidenced by the fact that there are a number of recordings with Celi/Munich accompanying soloists (e.g. Barenboim in Brahms PCs 1&2, Tchaik 1 and Schumann), where tempos are once again pretty mainstream.

Yes, absolutely correct, which is why I mentioned his slowness is a stereotype (not necessarily reality) many think of when thinking Celi. In fact, most performances aren't overly slow, even late performances of Bruckner. But when he is slow...god...nothing else quite like it  8)

Sarge

Jochum and Karajan for me.

I've not yet listened to all of the HvK box . . . .

For me the 8th is the highlight of the Karajan box.