Poll
Question:
The replacement B should be?
Option 1: von Bingen
Option 2: Bax
Option 3: Bartok
Option 4: Berlioz
Option 5: Bruckner
Option 6: Berg
Option 7: Barber
That scoundrel Brahms has unfairly claimed this spot for long enough. To think that such mousy obsequiousness could stand beside Bach, the father of music, and Beethoven, the incarnation! It annoys me that this self-inflated mediocrity is hailed as a genius, and it is time for a true composer to take his place.
We must decide!
This is a typical case where Banana should have been included.
First of all, I would never take Brahms off the list.
Secondly, where is Britten? How about Brian? Ha!
Thirdly, Bingen is not a name, but a place! Hildegard of Bingen!
Quote from: springrite on August 19, 2013, 10:58:08 PM
First of all, I would never take Brahms off the list.
Neither would I unless there was a Banana option.
I nominate Bix Biederbecke
In fact, when the phrase was first coined (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Bs), Berlioz was (hat tip to Carol Reed) The Third B. Hans von Bülow swapped Brahms in for Louis-Hector, the chauvinistic swine ??? ;) 8)
Anyway, the premise of this thread is all wrong. Brahms rawks!
Quote from: karlhenning on August 20, 2013, 03:47:18 AM
Anyway, the premise of this thread is all wrong. Brahms rawks!
In fact, Brahm's name comes in third only because it is alphabetically listed.
Quote from: karlhenning on August 20, 2013, 03:46:26 AM
In fact, when the phrase was first coined (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Bs), Berlioz was (hat tip to Carol Reed) The Third B. Hans von Bülow swapped Brahms in for Louis-Hector, the chauvinistic swine ??? ;) 8)
The only reason why I voted, and voted for Berlioz. I of course agree:
Brahms does
rawk.
But, I must point out that among the replacement for the "self-inflated mediocrity", is none other than Arnold Bax.
Quote from: springrite on August 20, 2013, 03:50:01 AM
In fact, Brahm's name comes in third only because it is alphabetically listed.
Or perhaps chronologically. (same goes for the Berlioz version, too...)
Composers forgotten: Bellini, Bizet, Britten.
von Bingen lol... name fail! :D
I still would vote and did vote for Bartok, though Brahms more than earned his place in the holy trinity. 0:)
Quote from: North Star on August 20, 2013, 03:54:24 AM
The only reason why I voted, and voted for Berlioz. I of course agree: Brahms does rawk.
But, I must point out that among the replacement for the "self-inflated mediocrity", is none other than Arnold Bax.
I like Bax but agree that he has no place on this poll.
Quote from: The new erato on August 19, 2013, 10:51:30 PM
This is a typical case where Banana should have been included.
This is true.
Quote from: North Star on August 20, 2013, 03:54:24 AM
The only reason why I voted, and voted for Berlioz. I of course agree: Brahms does rawk.
Aye, though I'm not sure I could sit through an all-
Brahms orchestral program. (Chamber music, all right, methinks.)
Quote from: DavidW on August 20, 2013, 03:58:23 AM
I like Bax but agree that he has no place on this poll.
Word. We all of us love some (or indeed, many) lesser-known composers; it doesn't really serve them to pretend that they belong in the very topmost tier. (I think it entirely right to resist the notion that
only the topmost tier is worth listening to, of course.)
Quote from: karlhenning on August 20, 2013, 04:04:13 AM
Aye, though I'm not sure I could sit through an all-Brahms orchestral program. (Chamber music, all right, methinks.)
Not an ideal program, for sure, but I think I could survive the 2nd PC coupled with one of the symphonies.
Quote from: DavidW on August 20, 2013, 03:58:23 AM
I like Bax but agree that he has no place on this poll.
Especially with Britten, Busoni, Byrd, Borodin, and Boulez missing.
Bruckner, for sure. I'm a little dismayed not to see Braga Santos up there, though! ;)
The only thing Brahms sucks was cigars.
He is among my 3 co-favourite composers (Brahms, Beethoven and Shostakovich).
Quote from: The new erato on August 19, 2013, 10:51:30 PM
This is a typical case where Banana should have been included.
A banana is delicious, but not a composer, and that joke has been played out, just like the music of that giftless Brahms. I could eat a banana, but anyone who could swallow the B-flat Piano Concerto with appetite can calmly await a famine; he could also get along splendidly on the nutrtitive equivalent of window glass and cork stoppers.
(* picks his way through the Valley of Over-wrought Puns *) 8)
Quote from: The Six on August 20, 2013, 06:44:15 AM
A banana is delicious, but not a composer, and that joke has been played out, just like the music of that giftless Brahms.
Oh my, I am sorry you think of Brahms as giftless. :(
Well, to each their own. Not everyone likes the same composers or same works. Otherwise, life would be pretty boring if we all liked the same things!
Are their some works by Brahms that you do enjoy? :)
Quote from: ChamberNut on August 20, 2013, 07:46:44 AM
Are their some works by Brahms that you do enjoy? :)
Probably the one mommy sang to put him to sleep when he was a child. :P
Everyone has a right to their opinion but saying that Brahms was basically a 'hack' is one of the most uninformed, ignorant statements I've read on this board. I speak of my dislike of Mozart or Beethoven, but I wouldn't dare call them mediocrities. This thread is the result when someone clearly is trolling and doesn't genuinely have anything other than insults to bring to the table.
Quote from: ChamberNut on August 20, 2013, 07:46:44 AM
Oh my, I am sorry you think of Brahms as giftless. :(
And thus loses all credibility.
One can not care for the music, but not to recognize the gift in the music: that is a pitiable lapse in acumen.
Berlioz!
Or Brubeck!
Quote from: Mirror Image on August 20, 2013, 08:09:02 AM
Everyone has a right to their opinion but saying that Brahms was basically a 'hack' is one of the most uninformed, ignorant statements I've read on this board. I speak of my dislike of Mozart or Beethoven, but I wouldn't dare call them mediocrities. This thread is the result when someone clearly is trolling and doesn't genuinely have anything other than insults to bring to the table.
I think that you might be taking the OP too seriously. ;)
Quote from: Opus106 on August 20, 2013, 08:29:58 AM
I think that you might be taking the OP too seriously. ;)
Well, John is always serious. You just can't always tell.
Quote from: Mirror Image on August 20, 2013, 08:09:02 AM
Everyone has a right to their opinion but saying that Brahms was basically a 'hack' is one of the most uninformed, ignorant statements I've read on this board. I speak of my dislike of Mozart or Beethoven, but I wouldn't dare call them mediocrities. This thread is the result when someone clearly is trolling and doesn't genuinely have anything other than insults to bring to the table.
Brahms mastered the art of composing without ideas, and, indeed, this acolyte here has mastered the act of posting without opinions.
Enough of this hideous game! Let Brahms be content he has found a language which gives the most persuasive expression of his mute despair: the language of the most intensive musical impotence.
Quote from: springrite on August 20, 2013, 08:33:29 AM
Well, John is always serious. You just can't always tell.
Not always, but in this case I am and think this member is just a troll at this juncture.
Leaves Brahms on. Just add more B's...
Bartok, Bruckner, Berg, etc.
Quote from: Greg on August 20, 2013, 10:03:48 AM
Leaves Brahms on. Just add more B's...
Bartok, Bruckner, Berg, etc.
Instead of the Three B's, let's make it into the B52's!
Quote from: springrite on August 20, 2013, 10:05:07 AM
Instead of the Three B's, let's make it into the B52's!
Well, there's a challenge. Can you think of 49 more composers whose last name end in 'B'?
Quote from: Greg on August 20, 2013, 10:11:06 AM
Well, there's a challenge. Can you think of 49 more composers whose last name end in 'B'?
Of course. I may not be able to claim to have listed to much of their music, though. But I think I have probably around, say 30 to 40 B's in my collection.
There'd be more B's if we can use place, like the originator of this thread did with von Bingen. Imagine all the von Britain's we can have...
Quote from: Greg on August 20, 2013, 10:11:06 AM
Well, there's a challenge. Can you think of 49 more composers whose last name end in 'B'?
off the top of my head:
J.S. Bach
C.P.E. Bach
J.C.F. Bach
J.C. Bach
Berwald
Berlioz
Bernstein
Beethoven
Blumenfeld
Borodin
Bortkiewicz
Bartok
Borne
Bizet
Brahms
Bax
Bantock
That's 17 from memory. And I forgot Bruckner, Berg, and Barber. 20.
Heck, there are almost 52 Bachs alone. (The Bach-52s!)
Why, there are 52 B-composers ("There's a double meaning in that") from England, alone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:English_composers)!
Brian
Bowen
Boulez
Bliss
Blumdahl
Berger
Birtwhistle
von Bulow
Britten
Bridge
Well, it is 3 in the morning here and the top of my head ain't working right...
Quote from: springrite on August 20, 2013, 10:13:00 AM
Of course. I may not be able to claim to have listed to much of their music, though. But I think I have probably around, say 30 to 40 B's in my collection.
There'd be more B's if we can use place, like the originator of this thread did with von Bingen. Imagine all the von Britain's we can have...
Hm. That would pretty much defeat the purpose of the small number of/most important Bs, though.
At the very least... the 4 Bs. Bruckner has to be in there.
Quote from: Brian on August 20, 2013, 10:16:43 AM
off the top of my head:
J.S. Bach
C.P.E. Bach
J.C.F. Bach
J.C. Bach
Berwald
Berlioz
Bernstein
Beethoven
Blumenfeld
Borodin
Bortkiewicz
Bartok
Borne
Bizet
Brahms
Bax
Bantock
That's 17 from memory. And I forgot Bruckner, Berg, and Barber. 20.
And the next 29? ;)
Quote from: karlhenning on August 20, 2013, 10:21:16 AM
Why, there are 52 B-composers ("There's a double meaning in that") from England, alone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:English_composers)!
You are too generous.
I don't mean the numbers.
Quote from: karlhenning on August 20, 2013, 10:20:11 AM
Heck, there are almost 52 Bachs alone. (The Bach-52s!)
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
I have not heard a note of his works, but read today a rave review of an opera composed by a certain
George Benjamin.
Should he be added to the list?
Here's the first 52 composers starting with B who are listed on Naxos Music Library. I deleted one who was a misspelled duplicate (there were three spellings of Arno Babadjanian, whose piano trio is pretty good, by the way.)
B. Leza,
B., Batho Anna
B., Michael
Baadsvik, Anna
Baadsvik, Oystein (b. 01/01/1966)
Baas, Danielle (b. 01/01/1958)
Baba, Devran
Baba, Sidonie (b.6/30/1930 - d. 1/12/1973)
Baba, Sivas'li Sitki
Babadjanian, Arno Harutyuni (b.1/22/1921 - d. 11/11/1983)
Babaev, Andrei
Babai, Bela
Babakhanian, Armen
Babb, Keedie (b. 10/12/1982)
Babbitt, Milton (b.5/10/1916 - d. 1/29/2011)
Babcock, Bruce
Babell, Charles
Babell, William (b.01/01/1690 - d. 9/23/1723)
Baben, T.
Babic, Andrej
Babin, Louis
Babin, Victor (b.01/01/1908 - d. 3/01/1972)
Babo, Lamartine (b.3/08/1904 - d. 6/16/1963)
Babos, Gyula (b. 01/01/1949)
Babos, Karoly
Babou, Thomas (b.2/12/1656 - d. 01/01/1740)
Babs, Alice (b. 1/26/1924)
Babu, Valter
Babusa, Miklos
Baby, Trevor Dark
Babyface, (b. 01/01/1959)
Baca Lobera, Ignacio
Baca, Nick
Bacalhau, Jose
Baca-Lobera, Ignacio (b. 01/01/1957)
Bacalov, Luis (b. 3/30/1933)
Bacan, Ines
Bacan, Pedro (b. 1951)
Bacarisse, Salvador (b.9/12/1898 - d. 8/05/1963)
Baccini, R.
Baccusi, Hippolito (b.01/01/1550 - d. 01/01/1609)
Bacevicius, Vytautas
Bacewicz, Grazyna (b.2/05/1909 - d. 1/17/1969)
Bach, Carl Philipp Emanuel (b.3/08/1714 - d. 12/14/1788)
Bach, Erik (b. 01/01/1946)
Bach, Georg Christoph (b.9/06/1642 - d. 4/27/1697)
Bach, Heinrich (b.01/01/1615 - d. 01/01/1692)
Bach, Jan (b. 12/11/1937)
Bach, Johann (b.11/26/1604 - d. 5/13/1673)
Bach, Johann Bernhard (b.11/25/1676 - d. 6/11/1749)
Bach, Johann Christian (b.9/05/1735 - d. 1/01/1782)
Bach, Johann Christoph (b.12/08/1642 - d. 4/02/1703)
Johann Sebastian Bach was #59. I'd say the "notable" composers who come before the Bachs, alphabetically, are Babadjanian, Babbitt, Bacevicius, and Bacewicz, at least.
No love for Babyface? . . .
Maybe Bartok? And Brahms doesn't suck btw.
Quote from: Cato on August 20, 2013, 10:29:30 AM
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
I have not heard a note of his works, but read today a rave review of an opera composed by a certain George Benjamin.
Should he be added to the list?
He is quite good, as is Lee Benjamin, I think from down under.
Quote from: karlhenning on August 20, 2013, 08:12:52 AM
And thus loses all credibility.
One can not care for the music, but not to recognize the gift in the music: that is a pitiable lapse in acumen.
I suppose I should say it now: Hugo Wolf and Tchaikovsky lose all their credibility, then, because everything I've said about Brahms in this thread is paraphrased from their own critiques of him. They had quite a way with words!
Quote from: North Star on August 20, 2013, 04:10:28 AM
[....] I think I could survive the 2nd PC coupled with one of the symphonies.
I'd even ask for an encore!
Like a repeat of the
Allegro appassionato from that 2nd piano concerto.
Quote from: springrite on August 20, 2013, 10:05:07 AM
Instead of the Three B's, let's make it into the B52's!
Good idea. I like the B52's.
And Brahms doesn't suck at all.
Although nowadays I listen a bit more to f.i. Byrd, Buxtehude, Böhm and Bruhns.
I can still sleep at night if one or several people (or even millions) think Brahms' music sucks. :)
He'll always remain one of favourite composers.
Quote from: sanantonio on August 20, 2013, 11:04:13 AM
Well, you're no Tchaikovsky.
Indeed.
Tchaikovsky's credibility is his work.
Quote from: karlhenning on August 20, 2013, 11:14:21 AM
Indeed. Tchaikovsky's credibility is his work.
+1.
Many (if not most or all) my favourite composers have said some ridiculous things about other composers.
This does not reflect on the credibility of their own works.
IIRC, Tchaikovsky's remark was written in a diary -- not broadcast in a public forum.
That Tchaikovsky: more and more credible all the time . . . .
Quote from: ChamberNut on August 20, 2013, 11:25:01 AM
+1.
Many (if not most or all) my favourite composers have said some ridiculous things about other composers.
This does not reflect on the credibility of their own works.
It wasn't ridiculous to them. And their opinions hold as much credibility with or without their own personal body of work.
Quote from: The Six on August 20, 2013, 11:32:35 AM
It wasn't ridiculous to them. And their opinions hold as much credibility with or without their own personal body of work.
Name dropping doesn't matter. It's POSTERITY that counts. And posterity has smashed Tchaikovsky's and Wolf's opinions into dust.
Anyway, let's say again: Tchaikovsky writes something in his diary.
On another occasion, he and Brahms meet socially, and get on quite well.
So what is "Tchaikovsky's opinion": something he got off his chest in his diary one day, or how he felt after spending time with Brahms?
Just because this is an Internet forum, we needn't think of these things in as shallow a manner as, well, the Internet. We mustn't be afraid of a little nuance and thought.
Quote from: sanantonio on August 20, 2013, 11:45:22 AM
Considering what else Tchaikovsky and Wolf left to us, their opinions of Brahms is not among the most important.
Well, nothing is really important. But we'll still talk. And it's because of other composers' oeuvre that we may hold their opinions in high regard, yet that doesn't stop us from readily dismissing select ones when we feel we the need to.
Now, is this discussion going anywhere?
I have just one thing to say:
Brahms: Intermezzo in A major, op.118 no.2, Murray Perahia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSf2veLfC-w#!)
Nuf sed.
Someone should start a thread called "Busy Little B's" so we can talk about someone other than the Three B's.
Feel free to consider Brahms a "Busy Little B" if you like.
I'd nominate Bowen and von Bulow.
Quote from: Dungeon Master on August 20, 2013, 12:28:58 PM
I have just one thing to say:
Brahms: Intermezzo in A major, op.118 no.2, Murray Perahia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSf2veLfC-w#!)
Nuf sed.
The God of the Forum has spoken. Lock this thread.
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on August 20, 2013, 12:31:15 PM
The God of the Forum has spoken. Lock this thread.
Sarge
I thought The Master's avatar was his nominations!
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on August 20, 2013, 12:31:15 PM
The God of the Forum has spoken. Lock this thread.
Sarge
0:)
Back in 2008 I wrote an article for Juilliard on a recording of Brahms' clarinet sonatas, ending with "Now and then I run into someone who doesn't care for Brahms. Hearing a recording like this, one can only wonder, how is that possible?"
http://www.juilliard.edu/journal/electronic-duets-dazzle-brahms-his-autumnal-glory
--Bruce
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on August 20, 2013, 12:31:15 PM
The God of the Forum has spoken. Lock this thread.
Sarge
Hear, hear! If you don't connect with or appreciate a particular composers' music, that's perfectly okay, but there's absolutely no reason to go out and talk senseless trash about that composer. Any thread that has "so and so sucks" in the title should immediately be locked.
Quote from: kyjo on August 20, 2013, 12:58:00 PM
Hear, hear! If you don't connect with or appreciate a particular composers' music, that's perfectly okay, but there's absolutely no reason to go out and talk senseless trash about that composer. Any thread that has "so and so sucks" in the title should immediately be locked.
My sentiments exactly, Kyle.
Quote from: sanantonio on August 20, 2013, 12:27:10 PM
I daresay that for most "famous" composers, you can find another "famous" composer who said something bad about him.
Is any of that as interesting, or worth talking about, as their music?
As interesting as their music? Maybe not. But still of great interest, especially when they say it in an entertaining way, like Wolf did.
Don't feed the troll people.
Just cause you don't get it, doesn't make it trolling. No need for your melodrama.
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on August 20, 2013, 12:31:15 PM
The God of the Forum has spoken. Lock this thread.
Sarge
Hey, when Brahms is on the attack, I come out from under my rock.
And I'm sure the OP meant this thread to simply stimulate discussion, no trolling intended.
Discuss on.
Rob