My medication is wearing thin. :P Anyway, any Star Wars fans here?
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?action=profile;u=21
Yeah, I have been know to be a Star Wars fan, but I am a bit skeptical about the forthcoming "Disney" Star Wars movies. Also, you won't see me dressed as a figure from these movies. :D
Quote from: 71 dB on May 04, 2014, 08:57:48 AM
Yeah, I have been know to be a Star Wars fan, but I am a bit skeptical about the forthcoming "Disney" Star Wars movies. Also, you won't see me dressed as a figure from these movies. :D
No way they can any worse than Episodes 1-3. I have faith in JJ Abrams, as long as he leaves the lens flare out of it.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 04, 2014, 06:15:27 AM
My medication is wearing thin. :P Anyway, any Star Wars fans here?
Yup, used to be quite obsessed as a kid. Still love the old trilogy with a passion, blocked any memory of the prequels (I've enjoyed certain parts but looking back, it is an absolute disaster).
But I must admit that I'm slowly becoming interested in the upcoming episode - the casting seems inspired and IF Abrams directs a solid script (unlike his
Star Trek trainwrecks), the result might surprise a lot of skeptics. Plus, Kasdan is back! Should be a good thing, right?
*crosses fingers, acts like Dreamcatcher never happened*
Quote from: Rinaldo on May 04, 2014, 12:54:26 PM
But I must admit that I'm slowly becoming interested in the upcoming episode - the casting seems inspired and IF Abrams directs a solid script (unlike his Star Trek trainwrecks), the result might surprise a lot of skeptics. Plus, Kasdan is back! Should be a good thing, right? *crosses fingers, acts like Dreamcatcher never happened*
Two good points. I like seeing Ford, Hamill and Fischer back, plus Adam Driver and Oscar Issacs are quality newcomers.
And yes, Kasdan being back is a good thing. The worst part of Lucas' Episodes 1 - 3 was the script, if he had swallowed his pride and allowed another screenwriter to clean it up (very similar to why I never like James Cameron films) then 1 - 3 could have been much better.
Quote from: Rinaldo on May 04, 2014, 12:54:26 PM
Yup, used to be quite obsessed as a kid. Still love the old trilogy with a passion, blocked any memory of the prequels (I've enjoyed certain parts but looking back, it is an absolute disaster).
But I must admit that I'm slowly becoming interested in the upcoming episode - the casting seems inspired and IF Abrams directs a solid script (unlike his Star Trek trainwrecks), the result might surprise a lot of skeptics. Plus, Kasdan is back! Should be a good thing, right? *crosses fingers, acts like Dreamcatcher never happened*
Episodes I-III had some interesting parts and action sequences, but, overall, I found them lacking heart and, as mentioned already, a solid story. For me, it will always be
Episodes IV-VI, but I am anxious to see how the future has treated the gang and what kind of villain will be involved.
Fearless prediction: All will suck.
I base this on 37 years of steady suck.
>:D :blank:
Quote from: Ken B on May 04, 2014, 02:05:29 PM
Fearless prediction: All will suck.
I base this on 37 years of steady suck.
>:D :blank:
??? ::)
Well, thanks for stopping by.
Quote from: Ken B on May 04, 2014, 02:05:29 PM
Fearless prediction: All will suck.
I base this on 37 years of steady suck.
>:D :blank:
I find your lack of taste disturbing! >:D
Quote from: Rinaldo on May 04, 2014, 02:10:12 PM
I find your lack of taste disturbing! >:D
Do notice that 1976 was 38 years ago ...
Quote from: Ken B on May 04, 2014, 03:25:16 PM
Do notice that 1976 was 38 years ago ...
Exactly! No love for
Empire?
Quote from: Rinaldo on May 04, 2014, 12:54:26 PM
But I must admit that I'm slowly becoming interested in the upcoming episode - the casting seems inspired
The casting for the Phantom Menace was awesome. The cast for the original Star Wars were a bunch of no names. I'm not saying that the new movie will suck, but I am saying that it is too soon to tell.
Quote from: Rinaldo on May 04, 2014, 04:01:54 PM
Exactly! No love for Empire?
None. Bupkis, zip, nada, zilch. Okay, one cute gimmick had it, verbs in odd order placed. But I the "Force" stomach cannot.
Quote from: DavidW on May 04, 2014, 04:07:17 PMThe casting for the Phantom Menace was awesome.
Sort of. Neeson, McGregor, Portman, yeah... but that was about it.
QuoteThe cast for the original Star Wars were a bunch of no names.
Plus Cushing & Guiness. And that's why I like the new cast: an interesting mix of proven actors and "no names", although this time around, the no names are known to be quite talented (Boyega, for example). Given that Abrams CAN direct, I would be surprised if the new trilogy wouldn't be at least an upgrade over the prequels. And I suspect Abrams might go for a retro feeling, in the vein of
Super 8, which would be a welcome antidote to the sterile CGI sets of Episodes I-III.
I can be a bit of a SF junkie so, yes, I guess I am a Star Wars fan (although strongly in the episode IV-VI camp). The newer films (I-III) were wonderfully made but lacked in acting. I am looking forward to the new films although I am not expecting much at all. I agree with GSMoeller - it would be very difficult to do worse than I-III!!
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on May 04, 2014, 12:42:55 PM
No way they can any worse than Episodes 1-3. I have faith in JJ Abrams, as long as he leaves the lens flare out of it.
Agree.
Quote from: Rinaldo on May 04, 2014, 04:58:49 PM
Sort of.
That is the entire leading cast minus Anakin. Plus they also had Samuel L. Jackson. Not "sort of." It was good casting. The casting doesn't determine the quality of a movie. Period.
I do believe that Abrams will make a good Star Wars flick. BUT I also think that it will be a generic sf adventure just like the Star Trek reboots. Abrams is inoffensively safe and boring, he does not take risks, he does not make interesting, creative, innovative choices. I feel that I will enjoy Star Wars 7 the same way that I do the Trek reboots, by simply judging them as sf adventures and not by what came before.
Now can I be wrong? Of course I can! Because I don't know anything, and neither do any of you! Give me a break, we have no content by which to judge it.
Quote from: DavidW on May 05, 2014, 10:42:25 AM
Give me a break, we have no content by which to judge it.
Do you mean that the Jedi are not real???!!! ??? ???
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on May 04, 2014, 12:42:55 PMNo way they can any worse than Episodes 1-3.
I'm not so certain about that.
Quote from: DavidW on May 05, 2014, 10:42:25 AM
BUT I also think that it will be a generic sf adventure just like the Star Trek reboots. Abrams is inoffensively safe and boring, he does not take risks, he does not make interesting, creative, innovative choices.
That's what I fear too plus Disney paid a lot to Lucas for Lucasfilm, so their want to cash in big money, not make art.
Quote from: 71 dB on May 05, 2014, 11:03:01 AMThat's what I fear too plus Disney paid a lot to Lucas for Lucasfilm, so their want to cash in big money, not make art.
Current stories making the rounds in the mainstream business press and even the regular press is that the next Star Wars film will gross about $1.2 billion globally, and Disney is projecting similar global revenue with each film that will come out every couple years thereafter. The entire purpose of the purchase of Lucasfilm was to have a predictable series of blockbusters. Making artistically high quality films had nothing to do with the purchase, and putting someone like JJ Abrams in charge means that a nice, safe
product will be the end result, at least for the first movie. If I see a name like Derek Cianfrance or Duncan Jones attached to a future project, well, then maybe my outlook will change. Episodes I-III were not great, to say the least, but at least George Lucas still advanced film making in terms of digital photography, sound, and visual effects. With Disney in charge, it's hard to even see advances in those arenas. Look at what happened to Pixar to get an idea of what will happen to Lucasfilm.
Sure, Disney are all about the money. No surprise there, so it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone if they vomit their mother-approved, infuriatingly juvenile sludge all over a once reputable franchise.
Quote from: DavidW on May 05, 2014, 10:36:37 AM
The casting doesn't determine the quality of a movie. Period.
I'm not saying it does, I just read it as a concerted effort to bring interesting actors into the mix. And I read that effort as good sign.
Quote from: DavidW on May 05, 2014, 10:42:25 AM
I do believe that Abrams will make a good Star Wars flick. BUT I also think that it will be a generic sf adventure just like the Star Trek reboots. Abrams is inoffensively safe and boring, he does not take risks, he does not make interesting, creative, innovative choices. I feel that I will enjoy Star Wars 7 the same way that I do the Trek reboots, by simply judging them as sf adventures and not by what came before.
I'm no Abrams fan but I'd cut him some slack -
Cloverfield,
Super 8, heck, even a few things in the reboots were quite daring (albeit stupid).
Quote from: 71 dB on May 05, 2014, 11:03:01 AM
That's what I fear too plus Disney paid a lot to Lucas for Lucasfilm, so their want to cash in big money, not make art.
They WILL cash in whatever the outcome. If they weren't interested in making a good
Star Wars movie in the process, they could hire literally anyone and let him film whatever crap cobbled together from Lucas' bin.
Sure, I might be catastrophically wrong, but the ambition here seems to be clear: to at least attempt a "return to form" for a once beloved franchise. And make a fortune while doing it, obviously.
Quote from: Rinaldo on May 05, 2014, 11:32:46 AMSure, I might be catastrophically wrong, but the ambition here seems to be clear: to at least attempt a "return to form" for a once beloved franchise.
Disney executives have been quite candid about what they want. They do not want what you want.
Wow! They just issued a trailer for the new Star Wars movie!!!!! Amazing! :P
I think they are having some budget issues though...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVrIyEu6h_E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVrIyEu6h_E)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVrIyEu6h_E
Quote from: Todd on May 05, 2014, 11:35:23 AMDisney executives have been quite candid about what they want. They do not want what you want.
They want money. I want a good
Star Wars flick. There's not a contradiction here.
Quote from: Rinaldo on May 05, 2014, 11:39:42 AMThey want money. I want a good Star Wars flick. There's not a contradiction here.
There may very well be. The first two Star Wars films weren't subjected to the same type of multi-market test screenings and studio-mandated changes that most $200 million+ budget films are subject to today. I'm not privy to the contract that Abrams has with Disney, but I would be quite surprised if the studio gave him control of the final cut. Disney has been very clear that the upcoming series of movies are global franchise films. Quality is not job one. Assuming they make five more films, it is possible that one may be good, and perhaps it will be the first one. I'll probably see it in theaters, but I have the same expectations I have for Avatars 2, 3, and 4.
The later years of Lost and the later years of Alias show that Abrams is not immune to certain problems in long-term story-telling, e.g. writing his way into a corner with contradictions everywhere and not being able to find his way out.
Perhaps this will not be a problem with one 2-hour movie: it might be a problem with a 6-hour storyline.
We shall see!
I assume Ewoks will not be around, nor will Mr. Binks?
Art? Movie making? Am I lost, I thought this was the Star Wars thread. You know, those long boring ads for MacDonald's happy meals?
>:D :blank:
Quote from: Ken B on May 05, 2014, 12:47:22 PM
Art? Movie making? Am I lost, I thought this was the Star Wars thread.
>:D :blank:
Star Wars movies are high art. Don't be an ignoramus. Educate yourself. Understand Lucas' vision.
Quote from: 71 dB on May 05, 2014, 09:00:28 PM
Star Wars movies are high art. Don't be an ignoramus. Educate yourself. Understand Lucas' vision.
They are very skilled in the art of making money, yes.
Quote from: North Star on May 05, 2014, 10:31:09 PM
They are very skilled in the art of making money, yes.
Yes, the art of marketing.
Quote from: Cato on May 05, 2014, 12:03:04 PM
The later years of Lost and the later years of Alias show that Abrams is not immune to certain problems in long-term story-telling, e.g. writing his way into a corner with contradictions everywhere and not being able to find his way out.
Perhaps this will not be a problem with one 2-hour movie: it might be a problem with a 6-hour storyline.
We shall see!
I assume Ewoks will not be around, nor will Mr. Binks?
I've always had low expectations of JJ Abrams's films,not because of anything actually related to the films, but because of his name.
You see, there used to be (possibly they still may be) a local car insurance agency (specializing in low cost we-know-you-have-a-suspended-DL policies) which for many years used for its radio advertisements a fictive but Anglophonic animal named
J J Moose.
Quote from: 71 dB on May 05, 2014, 09:00:28 PM
Don't be an ignoramus. Educate yourself. Understand Lucas' vision.
Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi: you're my only hope . . . .
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on May 06, 2014, 07:04:22 AM
I've always had low expectations of JJ Abrams's films,not because of anything actually related to the films, but because of his name.
You see, there used to be (possibly they still may be) a local car insurance agency (specializing in low cost we-know-you-have-a-suspended-DL policies) which for many years used for its radio advertisements a fictive but Anglophonic animal named J J Moose.
Guilt by association! :D
Quote from: karlhenning on May 06, 2014, 07:10:28 AM
Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi: you're my only hope . . . .
When Episode I was shown in the theater I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.
Quote from: Moonfish on May 06, 2014, 10:05:04 PM
When Episode I was shown in the theater I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.
I remember my wife complaining about the child actor playing the future Darth Vader: "Why would they have kept that kid? Didn't they realize how awful he is?"
Apparently not!
What if they CGI Billy Mumy in, instead? . . .
Quote from: karlhenning on May 07, 2014, 06:57:33 AM
What if they CGI Billy Mumy in, instead? . . .
From that Twilight Zone episode. He can send everyone to the corn field.
Call me sentimental, but seeing an alien done by practical FX, not CGI, made me all warm up inside.
http://www.youtube.com/v/XfNiC9iKM0Q
Quote from: Rinaldo on May 21, 2014, 06:11:20 AMCall me sentimental, but seeing an alien done by practical FX, not CGI, made me all warm up inside.
And almost a year later..
https://www.youtube.com/v/A_K10fX9DSY
By an unlikely turn of events, I'm actually at the Celebration right now. And this blew my mind even more than the new teaser trailer. Cheers from Anaheim!
The chances of this film being any good is basically zero. You have been warned.
Quote from: Purusha on April 16, 2015, 11:10:02 PM
The chances of this film being any good is basically zero. You have been warned.
The chances of you and me agreeing on anything are basically zero. I have been bored.
Quote from: Cato on May 05, 2014, 12:03:04 PMPerhaps this will not be a problem with one 2-hour movie: it might be a problem with a 6-hour storyline.
You clearly haven't seen Into Darkness. Not sure i'd blame that on Abrams alone though. Orci and Kurtzman are also part of the problem. Horrible, horrible writers whose career can't end fast enough.
Here's the latest preview....
https://www.youtube.com/v/ngElkyQ6Rhs#t=45
Quote from: Ken B on May 04, 2014, 02:05:29 PM
Fearless prediction: All will suck.
I base this on 37 years of steady suck.
>:D :blank:
If first you don't suck-seed, suck suck again! >:D
Quote from: Purusha on April 17, 2015, 07:52:26 AMYou clearly haven't seen Into Darkness.
Oh, I have - and I hated it. But Abrams' spielbergian sensibilities (and his self-professed preference of
Wars over
Trek) could do wonders for the movie. I think he's a talented blockbuster director who didn't have good enough materal to work with yet. There were parts of
Super 8 that were brilliant and reached the emotional level I'm hoping to see in
The Force Awakens.
Quote from: karlhenning on May 07, 2014, 06:57:33 AM
What if they CGI Billy Mumy in, instead? . . .
You know you're getting old when ... you recognize Billy Mumy references!
Based on the trailer for Star Wars TFA, I'm excited. With the use of practical effects and what looks like better acting than episodes 1-3, this could be a winner. I don't know if Abrams is the right one for the job, but I hope he is, and I'm perfectly fine with the SW universe being expanded on without Lucas being too involved. I mean, we were all treated to how bad of a screenwriter he is with the previous 3.
And back to my first line, trailers are tricky little devils. They can make bad films look good and good films look great. So who knows what the final product will bring. (Hopefully less lens flare...J.J.)
I do have two words that I'm more excited for...Mad Max. Now THAT movie looks insane. Again, George Miller has relied on practical effects rather than computer generated.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on April 18, 2015, 11:06:01 AMI do have two words that I'm more excited for...Mad Max. Now THAT movie looks insane. Again, George Miller has relied on practical effects rather than computer generated.
Word. A guy who has two movies in my top whatever and both of them are polar opposites of each other -
Road Warrior and
Babe - is a GOD. 2015 is gearing to be one of the golden years of geekdom.
That said, I remember oh so well ho absolutely MESMERIZED was I with the
The Phantom Menace trailer. Boy, did THAT turn out differently..
I trust that you've all noticed the thematic similarity between the March from Prokofiev's 'The Love of Three Oranges' and 'The March of the Ewoks' from 'Star Wars: Return of the Jedi' by John Williams. 8)
Quote from: Rinaldo on April 18, 2015, 12:01:34 PM
Word. A guy who has two movies in my top whatever and both of them are polar opposites of each other - Road Warrior and Babe - is a GOD. 2015 is gearing to be one of the golden years of geekdom.
That said, I remember oh so well ho absolutely MESMERIZED was I with the The Phantom Menace trailer. Boy, did THAT turn out differently..
I was at a midnight showing of Phantom Menace with a few buddies, looking back we laugh at how when it was over we tried so hard to justify it being good. Of course we failed.
Here are my 3 changes that would have improved Phantam Menace, or even the trilogy...
1. Hired a screenwriter. This to me was the biggest failure of the new trilogy, the dialogue was embarrassing at times, and the flow of the films were all over the place. I see Lawrence Kasdan has returned, as he helped pen Empire and Return.
2. Kept Darth Maul around for all three films. Maul seems to still be the best and memorable part of the trilogy. Palpatine, Dooku and Grevious were never very threatening as villains, whereas Maul could've been frightening throughout. A main stay villain, like Vadar, was missing.
3. Less CG. This includes Jar-Jar, the Gundans and the floating heads of the Clone Army.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on April 18, 2015, 01:49:02 PM
I was at a midnight showing of Phantom Menace with a few buddies, looking back we laugh at how when it was over we tried so hard to justify it being good. Of course we failed.
Here are my 3 changes that would have improved Phantam Menace, or even the trilogy...
1. Hired a screenwriter. This to me was the biggest failure of the new trilogy, the dialogue was embarrassing at times, and the flow of the films were all over the place. I see Lawrence Kasdan has returned, as he helped pen Empire and Return.
2. Kept Darth Maul around for all three films. Maul seems to still be the best and memorable part of the trilogy. Palpatine, Dooku and Grevious were never very threatening as villains, whereas Maul could've been frightening throughout. A main stay villain, like Vadar, was missing.
3. Less CG. This includes Jar-Jar, the Gundans and the floating heads of the Clone Army.
All good ideas!
Squandering
Liam Neeson was the biggest sin! Other sins: stupid plot (a trade war? See
The Simpsons episode satirizing that idea and the rest of the movie!), miscasting for the Anakin roles, and not showing Anakin as a child undergoing something which would give him a predisposition to succumbing to the dark side.
Quote from: Cato on April 19, 2015, 05:18:06 AM
All good ideas!
Squandering Liam Neeson was the biggest sin! Other sins: stupid plot (a trade war? See The Simpsons episode satirizing that idea and the rest of the movie!), miscasting for the Anakin roles, and not showing Anakin as a child undergoing something which would give him a predisposition to succumbing to the dark side.
+1
Anakin didn't seem to "dark" until Obi-Wan pissed him off. :laugh:
I mean, the young Anakin was woo-hooing during Phantom while he blew up a spacecraft and possibly thousands of life forms on board. Just a kid having fun!
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on April 19, 2015, 08:03:41 AM
+1
Anakin didn't seem to "dark" until Obi-Wan pissed him off. :laugh:
I mean, the young Anakin was woo-hooing during Phantom while he blew up a spacecraft and possibly thousands of life forms on board. Just a kid having fun!
Ewan McGregor's imitation of the voice of
Alec Guinness was phenomenal!
Film actor
Richard Basehart (
Moby Dick, The Brothers Karamazov, Time Limit, La Strada) had also acted in Ibsen, Chekhov, and Shakespeare plays on stage. He was once asked, when he was playing in the science-fiction TV show
Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea in the 1960's, how difficult it was to do Shakespeare in contrast to an "easy" TV role.
He disagreed with the premise: "Shakespeare is easy in comparison,
because the lines are there!"
Ewan McGregor would have been much better
if the lines had been there!
Très cool!
Annie Leibovitz on the set of The Force Awakens:
https://www.youtube.com/v/yRwuD68NHoI
(http://photos.vanityfair.com/2015/05/01/5543ca95801ffcbc36b3417b_vanity-fair-star-wars-01.jpg)
(http://photos.vanityfair.com/2015/05/01/5543ca99db753b82389cbdc0_vanity-fair-star-wars-03.jpg)
(http://photos.vanityfair.com/2015/05/01/5543ca95db753b82389cbd94_vanity-fair-star-wars-02.jpg)
(http://photos.vanityfair.com/2015/05/01/5543ca9d801ffcbc36b341d3_vanity-fair-star-wars-06.jpg)
(http://photos.vanityfair.com/2015/05/01/5543ca93db753b82389cbd6e_vanity-fair-star-wars.jpg)
Has George Lucas ever given Edgar Rice Burroughs credit, having stolen all his ideas from the Barsoom novels?
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on April 18, 2015, 11:06:01 AM
Based on the trailer for Star Wars TFA, I'm excited. With the use of practical effects and what looks like better acting than episodes 1-3, this could be a winner.
Any acting is
better acting than episodes 1-3. There! I said it! 8)
Quote from: MN Dave on May 04, 2015, 08:49:34 AMHas George Lucas ever given Edgar Rice Burroughs credit, having stolen all his ideas from the Barsoom novels?
Stolen? All? Mostly, he nicked a bunch of names like Bantha, Sith or Jedi, which might come from 'Jeddak'. Plus, he got to Burroughs through Flash Gordon.
"In a quote in December 1977 talking about the first Star Wars, George Lucas said how he wanted to do Flash Gordon but couldn't get the rights so he started tracing what inspired Raymond and discovered that it was Burroughs and John Carter and then found Gullivar of Mars which he felt was the first story in this genre." (source (http://geek-news.mtv.com/2011/12/14/interview-robert-place-napton-goes-back-to-barsooms-past-with-warriors-of-mars/))
As for ideas, Lucas owes more to (and acknowledges the influence of) Joseph Campbell.
Quote from: Rinaldo on May 04, 2015, 09:05:30 AM
Stolen? All? Mostly, he nicked a bunch of names like Bantha, Sith or Jedi, which might come from 'Jeddak'. Plus, he got to Burroughs through Flash Gordon.
"In a quote in December 1977 talking about the first Star Wars, George Lucas said how he wanted to do Flash Gordon but couldn't get the rights so he started tracing what inspired Raymond and discovered that it was Burroughs and John Carter and then found Gullivar of Mars which he felt was the first story in this genre." (source (http://geek-news.mtv.com/2011/12/14/interview-robert-place-napton-goes-back-to-barsooms-past-with-warriors-of-mars/))
As for ideas, Lucas owes more to (and acknowledges the influence of) Joseph Campbell.
Thanks!
Quote from: vandermolen on April 18, 2015, 12:06:09 PM
I trust that you've all noticed the thematic similarity between the March from Prokofiev's 'The Love of Three Oranges' and 'The March of the Ewoks' from 'Star Wars: Return of the Jedi' by John Williams. 8)
There is a considerable similarity also with funeral march of Chopin's piano sonata 2 and Williams's Imperial march.
I have a good feeling about this..
https://www.youtube.com/v/CTNJ51ghzdY
Quote from: Rinaldo on July 16, 2015, 07:42:17 AM
I have a good feeling about this..
https://www.youtube.com/v/CTNJ51ghzdY
+1 Looks like Abrams has gone back to the an older way of doing things with the costumes, make-up, props, etc. A big thumbs up for this alone. 8)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on May 04, 2014, 01:35:29 PM
(very similar to why I never like James Cameron films)
I like some Cameron movies but the biggest problems with Cameron is that a) the kid characters in his movies are often written as unendurably obnoxious b) His villains often lack depth and seem cardboard cutouts. In some cases he tries to add some depth but deletes ultimately those scenes from the movie (as in Titanic, except for one, rather short scene). When Lucas is in charge of script-writing and directing, he usually makes the same mistakes as Cameron.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 05, 2014, 11:25:32 AM
Sure, Disney are all about the money.
Pretty much every single corporation in existence is all about the money.
Quote from: Alberich on August 18, 2015, 06:59:42 AM
I like some Cameron movies but the biggest problems with Cameron is that a) the kid characters in his movies are often written as unendurably obnoxious b) His villains often lack depth and seem cardboard cutouts. In some cases he tries to add some depth but deletes ultimately those scenes from the movie (as in Titanic, except for one, rather short scene). When Lucas is in charge of script-writing and directing, he usually makes the same mistakes as Cameron.
The only Cameron films I like are
The Terminator and
T2: Judgement Day. I thought these were very good sci-fi films.
Quote from: Mirror Image on August 18, 2015, 07:04:16 AM
The only Cameron films I like are The Terminator and T2: Judgement Day. I thought these were very good sci-fi films.
I love the first Terminator. My feelings about second one are more mixed, leaning towards positive. Scrap the annoying kid appeal character and I would call it a masterpiece.
Quote from: Alberich on August 18, 2015, 07:08:58 AMI love the first Terminator. My feelings about second one are more mixed, leaning towards positive. Scrap the annoying kid appeal character and I would call it a masterpiece.
I'm inclined to agree with you about
T2. I was pretty annoyed with the John Connor character, too. Edward Furlong really is a damn brat in this film.
Quote from: Alberich on August 18, 2015, 07:08:58 AM
I love the first Terminator. My feelings about second one are more mixed, leaning towards positive. Scrap the annoying kid appeal character and I would call it a masterpiece.
I'm not a Cameron fan but
Judgement Day is a masterpiece of action cinema. I never minded Furlong and Robert Patrick's T-1000 is one of the best movie villains ever. When I was younger, I preferred the first
Terminator but when I rewatched it few years ago, I thought it didn't age
that well. Still a classic though - and hard to beat when it comes to its glorious eighties aesthetic.
Thread duty: some new pictures courtesy of Entertainment Weekly (http://www.ew.com/gallery/star-wars-force-awakens-first-look-gallery/2274288_clone-all-crops-gallery-star-wars-force-awakens-2015-daisy-ridley-and-john-boyega-0).
(http://www.ew.com/sites/default/files/1439323833/EP7-30985-1377-1378-04_0.jpg)
(http://www.ew.com/sites/default/files/i/2015/08/12/ep7-22591-1377-1378-02.jpg)
(http://www.ew.com/sites/default/files/i/2015/08/12/ep7-128464-1377-1378-11.jpg)
(http://www.ew.com/sites/default/files/i/2015/08/11/ep7-00000-1377-1378-001.jpg)
Quote from: Rinaldo on August 18, 2015, 02:02:07 PM
I'm not a Cameron fan but Judgement Day is a masterpiece of action cinema. I never minded Furlong and Robert Patrick's T-1000 is one of the best movie villains ever. When I was younger, I preferred the first Terminator but when I rewatched it few years ago, I thought it didn't age that well. Still a classic though - and hard to beat when it comes to its glorious eighties aesthetic.
Thread duty: some new pictures courtesy of Entertainment Weekly (http://www.ew.com/gallery/star-wars-force-awakens-first-look-gallery/2274288_clone-all-crops-gallery-star-wars-force-awakens-2015-daisy-ridley-and-john-boyega-0).
(http://www.ew.com/sites/default/files/1439323833/EP7-30985-1377-1378-04_0.jpg)
(http://www.ew.com/sites/default/files/i/2015/08/12/ep7-22591-1377-1378-02.jpg)
(http://www.ew.com/sites/default/files/i/2015/08/12/ep7-128464-1377-1378-11.jpg)
(http://www.ew.com/sites/default/files/i/2015/08/11/ep7-00000-1377-1378-001.jpg)
Yeah, Furlong wasn't
that annoying. I mean he didn't ruin the film by any stretch of the word.
T2 is certainly a masterpiece I agree. BTW, those are some great photos! Will be interested to see how this story unfolds and how it ties in with
The Return of the Jedi. 8)
I think the spinoff film Rogue One has the potential to be a classic. And I'm 100% onboard with Donnie Yen attached.
(http://a.dilcdn.com/bl/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2015/08/rogue-one-cast-photo-d23-1536x864-521514304075.jpg)
BOOM! :o ;D
https://www.youtube.com/v/sGbxmsDFVnE
Hah, beat me to it!
Love Ford's line about 'all those stories being true'. Chills.
Quote from: Rinaldo on October 19, 2015, 06:57:31 PM
Hah, beat me to it!
Love Ford's line about 'all those stories being true'. Chills.
;D
Yeah, I'm very confident we have Star Wars back. Real villains, the original 3, and no Jar-Jar!
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 19, 2015, 06:54:48 PM
BOOM! :o ;D
https://www.youtube.com/v/sGbxmsDFVnE
Great! Looks fantastic. Can't wait to watch it on blu-ray. 8)
The trailers for J.J Abram's films are always better than the films themselves. ;D
I didn't know Oscar Isaac was going to be in the film though -- he's been excellent in the stuff I've seen him in.
Quote from: -abe- on October 19, 2015, 07:50:08 PM
The trailers for J.J Abram's films are always better than the films themselves. ;D
Sadly this is true for many films these days. Trailers have become an art form on their own.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 19, 2015, 07:03:55 PM
;D
Yeah, I'm very confident we have Star Wars back. Real villains, the original 3, and no Jar-Jar!
The funny thing about this comment is not so much that there is no indication that Abrams is bringing Star Wars back, but that Star Wars itself wasn't all that to begin with, which is going to make the failure (and fail this movie will) of this film even more hilarious than the Star Trek fiasco. Between George Lucas and a second rate nerdy Micheal Bay wannabe (let that sink in) this franchise has officially been driven to the ground harder than the blast site of a 58 megaton nuclear bomb.
Quote from: Purusha on October 20, 2015, 03:45:20 AM
The funny thing about this comment is not so much that there is no indication that Abrams is bringing Star Wars back, but that Star Wars itself wasn't all that to begin with, which is going to make the failure (and fail this movie will) of this film even more hilarious than the Star Trek fiasco. Between George Lucas and a second rate nerdy Micheal Bay wannabe (let that sink in) this franchise has officially been driven to the ground harder than the blast site of a 58 megaton nuclear bomb.
Another funny comment.
I'll maintain my high hopes for this next film, and the two to follow. The entire series was certainly weakened by episodes I-III but that shouldn't affect IV-VI nor should a weak symphony affect a stronger effort, even if the symphonic cycle is damaged overall. The characters in I-III were poorly drawn out and poorly acted, but married to the trilogy and therefore irreplaceable. I'm content to pretend they don't exist and remain enthusiastic for this next showing. Lucas reminds me of an athlete who just signed a life-altering contract and performs like garbage from indifference. You can either hope they change or their supporting cast is strong enough to carry the effort. At a minimum, he and everyone else involved with this project are well aware parts I-III were poorly received and generally hated outside of the "cartoon demographic". A legacy is on the line though so here's hoping the franchise comes back with a Beethovian resurgence.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 20, 2015, 05:17:45 AM
Another funny comment.
But it is the truth. Star Wars itself was just an half assed but honest attempt to turn Kurosawa into a space opera. It had a really crappy script and the direction was uneven but it had a few neat ideas, cool visual effects and a John Williams score when John Williams was still in his prime. The new one has absolutely nothing to offer except the usual Hollywood hubris. Plus we know what Abrams is capable of (utter garbage) so i don't get why anybody thinks this particular film is going to be any different then the other trash he's been churning out this past several years.
Quote from: Purusha on October 20, 2015, 08:29:46 AM
But it is the truth. Star Wars itself was just an half assed but honest attempt to turn Kurosawa into a space opera. It had a really crappy script and the direction was uneven but it had a few neat ideas, cool visual effects and a John Williams score when John Williams was still in his prime. The new one has absolutely nothing to offer except the usual Hollywood hubris. Plus we know what Abrams is capable of (utter garbage) so i don't get why anybody thinks this particular film is going to be any different then the other trash he's been churning out this past several years.
I don't see this as only Abrams film though, with Lawrence Kasdan (who scripted Empire and Return) and Michael Arndt as screenwriters, Kathleen Kennedy as producer and the fact that Ford and Hamill returned displays that it seems to be going the route of the original trilogy rather than Lucas' attempt with Eps I-III which I believe most would say were disappointments.
Abrams is not the
only choice for bringing Star Wars back to life, I don't really know if there is a director that would be ideal. But I think Abrams has shown that he's a capable director and with all the other factors in place it's hopeful that it will be successful.
In regards to the quality of the films, I don't know of anyone that ever claimed that these films were master classes in script writing or directing, but being when they were released and how many grew up watching these films and not experiencing anything like it before, it's something that has been with us for a long time. The Star Wars universe is huge and has lasted almost 40 years, this release means a lot to some, hearing the musical themes being reworked into this trailer was thrilling and chills-inducing for me, very nostalgic. But it also means absolutely nothing to others, and either way is fine, it's all subjective anyway, right? :)
Mind you, I'm not any Star Wars fan. But the semi-irrational Hate to be seen here is cringe-inducing 8)
Being a Star Wars hater is certainly more pathetic than being a Star Wars fan...
I'd rather kiss a Wookkiie . . . .
Quote from: karlhenning on October 20, 2015, 10:23:54 AM
I'd rather kiss a Wookkiie . . . .
Now that's a hairy scenario
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 20, 2015, 09:39:19 AM
I don't see this as only Abrams film though, with Lawrence Kasdan (who scripted Empire and Return) and Michael Arndt as screenwriters, Kathleen Kennedy as producer and the fact that Ford and Hamill returned displays that it seems to be going the route of the original trilogy rather than Lucas' attempt with Eps I-III which I believe most would say were disappointments.
Abrams is not the only choice for bringing Star Wars back to life, I don't really know if there is a director that would be ideal. But I think Abrams has shown that he's a capable director and with all the other factors in place it's hopeful that it will be successful.
In regards to the quality of the films, I don't know of anyone that ever claimed that these films were master classes in script writing or directing, but being when they were released and how many grew up watching these films and not experiencing anything like it before, it's something that has been with us for a long time. The Star Wars universe is huge and has lasted almost 40 years, this release means a lot to some, hearing the musical themes being reworked into this trailer was thrilling and chills-inducing for me, very nostalgic. But it also means absolutely nothing to others, and either way is fine, it's all subjective anyway, right? :)
No, it's objective. J.J Abrams is a hack. FACT
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 20, 2015, 09:39:19 AMThe Star Wars universe is huge and has lasted almost 40 years, this release means a lot to some, hearing the musical themes being reworked into this trailer was thrilling and chills-inducing for me, very nostalgic.
You sound like one of those people now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RGohIKxc9M
Quote from: Purusha on October 20, 2015, 12:47:35 PM
You sound like one of those people now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RGohIKxc9M
Never dressed up like a character from the movie or role played, so, no.
But thanks for posting that video, I've always found it funny.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 20, 2015, 01:16:36 PM
Never dressed up like a character from the movie or role played, so, no.
But thanks for posting that video, I've always found it funny.
Some people love extremes and wholly reject middle ground. Some posts aren't worth reading, let alone responding to. I enjoyed and agreed with your post.
Spoiler: The main bad guy is Luke.
There, I saved you $12.
Quote from: Mr. Three Putt on October 20, 2015, 02:08:19 PM
Some posts aren't worth reading, let alone responding to.
Exactly.
Quote from: -abe- on October 20, 2015, 02:37:47 PM
Spoiler: The main bad guy is Luke.
There, I saved you $12.
AFAIK, he is the new Yoda. The new villain is this deformed looking chap, right?
(https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/3uvcCsqK6sKSc-2Ym99EJsikOdo=/0x53:1440x863/640x360/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/47027622/5543ca96801ffcbc36b34181_vanity-fair-star-wars-01.0.0.jpg)
Quote from: -abe- on October 20, 2015, 12:21:31 PM
No, it's objective. J.J Abrams is a hack. FACT
Favored parts of Star Trek includes the "engine" room looking like some kind of distillery because according to Abrams people would have found the old design with the light tube in the middle too confusing. Or when "bones" explains he got the nick name because when his wife divorced him he left him only with his "bones". I was eight years old when i first saw Star Trek and it took me less then a second to figure out bones was some kind of military slang for doctor, but i guess modern audiences are too dumb to do that. At least according to Abrams.
Also, this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHMnm9sFo1w
(http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/slow_clap_citizen_kane.gif)
Quote from: Purusha on October 21, 2015, 12:39:50 AM
I was eight years old when i first saw Star Trek....
This explains a lot.
I'm not a fan, or should say not interested in these YouTube videos of viewers reactions to other videos. So naturally there are tons of these videos surfacing now. But one came across my screen earlier while reading a few headlines at Yahoo. It was the reaction of actor John Boyega during his first viewing of the newest trailer for The Force Awakens.
Watch to the end, if you're familiar with the trailer you'll know why he reacts the way he does...
https://www.youtube.com/v/kkXKgwB6zCs
Quote from: Purusha on October 21, 2015, 12:39:50 AM
Favored parts of Star Trek includes the "engine" room looking like some kind of distillery because according to Abrams people would have found the old design with the light tube in the middle too confusing. Or when "bones" explains he got the nick name because when his wife divorced him he left him only with his "bones". I was eight years old when i first saw Star Trek and it took me less then a second to figure out bones was some kind of military slang for doctor, but i guess modern audiences are too dumb to do that. At least according to Abrams.
Also, this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHMnm9sFo1w
(http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/slow_clap_citizen_kane.gif)
These guys are the bane of cinema: Robert Orci, Alex Kurtzman, Damon Lindeoff, and J.J Abrams. They're all pals too and work together often.
Heck, even Michael Bay made one legitimately kickass movie -- "The Rock" (1996). The guys above can't point to anything worthwhile they've done. Why is it negative to complain about that?
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 21, 2015, 04:40:05 PM
I'm not a fan, or should say not interested in these YouTube videos of viewers reactions to other videos. So naturally there are tons of these videos surfacing now. But one came across my screen earlier while reading a few headlines at Yahoo. It was the reaction of actor John Boyega during his first viewing of the newest trailer for The Force Awakens.
Watch to the end, if you're familiar with the trailer you'll know why he reacts the way he does...
https://www.youtube.com/v/kkXKgwB6zCs
This was my reaction:
(http://wgtccdn.wegotthiscovered.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/tommy-lee-jones-movies-list.jpg)
Quote from: -abe- on October 21, 2015, 08:37:36 PMThe guys above can't point to anything worthwhile they've done.
Abrams'
Super 8 was, until its weak final act, brilliant. He's a smart guy and he definitely knows how to direct action. With a good script (which his
Trek movies lacked..), I'm pretty confident about his abilities to deliver a solid movie. With Kasdan aboard, I'm hopeful the
Force Awakens script might be good.
I don't participate much anymore in Star Wars related discussions. I used to be active back when the PT came out. I am done with the debating, it's beyond any rationality when it's comes to Star Wars. It's not about who gives the best arguments or respecting others. It's about which/whose opinions are allowed. I don't mind people disagreeing with me about Star Wars. What I don't accept is people telling me I can't have my opinions. I don't like people telling me how I should re-think my opinion. Yeah, but I have thought about many things quite a lot already!
Rational discussion about Star Wars online is impossible (actually I have seen exceptions to this rule but they are rare). My opinions are in the very small minority and I don't know why I should waste my time fighting for them online. I feel victimized for my Star Wars (and many other) opinions. We live in a mean world.
My recommendation to everyone is: Hate/ignore/love Star Wars the way you hate/ignore/love it and live your life accordingly. Ignore opinions of other people because whatever you think about Star Wars, someone will tell you your opinions are completely wrong and they will use hours of their time online to chance your opinions (what lunacy!).
That's why I won't even tell what I think about Ep. VII so far. That way nobody can tell me how wrong I am! I'm so tired hearing it time after time.
Quote from: 71 dB on October 22, 2015, 07:53:37 AM
I don't participate much anymore in Star Wars related discussions. I used to be active back when the PT came out. I am done with the debating, it's beyond any rationality when it's comes to Star Wars. It's not about who gives the best arguments or respecting others. It's about which/whose opinions are allowed. I don't mind people disagreeing with me about Star Wars. What I don't accept is people telling me I can't have my opinions. I don't like people telling me how I should re-think my opinion. Yeah, but I have thought about many things quite a lot already!
Rational discussion about Star Wars online is impossible (actually I have seen exceptions to this rule but they are rare). My opinions are in the very small minority and I don't know why I should waste my time fighting for them online. I feel victimized for my Star Wars (and many other) opinions. We live in a mean world.
My recommendation to everyone is: Hate/ignore/love Star Wars the way you hate/ignore/love it and live your life accordingly. Ignore opinions of other people because whatever you think about Star Wars, someone will tell you your opinions are completely wrong and they will use hours of their time online to chance your opinions (what lunacy!).
That's why I won't even tell what I think about Ep. VII so far. That way nobody can tell me how wrong I am! I'm so tired hearing it time after time.
But that's when the haters win! Obviously some of my comments and posts have been followed with negative reaction, but it wont stop me from continuing. And I also don't try and argue with anyone, especially when the comments are all subjective. Plus I haven't seen any of the back and forth between users become too personal, if it does that's when it should stop.
Please feel free to post your comments, 71db, that's what this forum is for.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 22, 2015, 08:52:55 AMBut that's when the haters win!
What actually do they win? There's nothing to win for anyone.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 22, 2015, 08:52:55 AMPlease feel free to post your comments, 71db, that's what this forum is for.
We have not seen Ep. VII yet, only some trailers. At this point I
feel that the movie is probably good, but playing on the safe ground, trying to give us what they think people want to see. That may be a problem for me. Now, please don't tell me how wrong my feelings are 2 months before the movie comes out. We all can be so wrong at this point.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 22, 2015, 08:52:55 AM
But that's when the haters win! Obviously some of my comments and posts have been followed with negative reaction, but it wont stop me from continuing. And I also don't try and argue with anyone, especially when the comments are all subjective. Plus I haven't seen any of the back and forth between users become too personal, if it does that's when it should stop.
Please feel free to post your comments, 71db, that's what this forum is for.
I find it rather amusing when people post how bad the movie is when they obviously can't have seen it as it is only released in two months. I'm not sure why some posters post such hateful comments either (here and in other threads). It just comes off as being angry with the world and their lot in it.
Personally, I'm excited to see it. I just hope it doesn't disappoint like the fourth one (phantom menace) did.
Anyone who likes the new movies isn't really a Star Wars fan to begin with. Poor writing and acting aside, people liked Star Wars because it expressed values a lot of people clicked with, such as honor, heroism, hope, redemption, a clear morality and so forth. Some of this stuff derived from Kurosawa, who was himself a traditionalist inhabiting the skin of a modern filmmaker. The writings of Joseph Campbell presumably played a role as well but not having read him myself i cannot say this is the case. Either way, it is moments like this that make Star Wars what it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RFYoZ7H67A
Now, what values do people like Abrams hold? Ho right, the deranged and psychotic values of modernity, which are now endemic in Hollywood as a whole. And this is why this movie will fail. Because it is made by people for whom those older values are utterly and completely alien. And lo, who are the ones who are anticipating this film the most? Ho right, the modernists. What a coincidence.
Quote from: Purusha on October 22, 2015, 09:06:29 AM
Anyone who likes the new movies isn't really a Star Wars fan to begin with. Poor writing and acting aside, people liked Star Wars because it expressed values a lot of people clicked with, such as honor, heroism, hope, redemption, a clear morality and so forth. Some of this stuff derived from Kurosawa, who was himself a traditionalist inhabiting the skin of a modern filmmaker. The writings of Joseph Campbell presumably played a role as well but not having read him myself i cannot say this is the case. Either way, it is moments like this that make Star Wars what it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RFYoZ7H67A
Now, what values does people like Abrams hold? Ho right, the deranged and psychotic values of modernity, which are now endemic in Hollywood as a whole. And this is why this movie will fail. Because it is made by people for whom those older values are utterly and completely alien. And lo, who are the ones who are anticipating this film the most? Ho right, the modernists. What a coincidence.
Well, you proved my point. I suggest you not try to read minds though - it doesn't seem to be your calling in life.
You are right. I forgot to mention those who simply have no taste or are not intelligent enough to differentiate between good and bad entertainment. And make no mistake, almost all modern entertainment is bad. No exception. Which means we defacto live in the stupidest age in the entire history of mankind.
Quote from: Purusha on October 22, 2015, 09:35:48 AM
You are right. I forgot to mention those who simply have no taste or are not intelligent enough to differentiate between good and bad entertainment. And make no mistake, almost all modern entertainment is bad. No exception. Which means we defacto live in the stupidest age in the entire history of mankind.
Now that you have made clear your position, perhaps you'd let the enthusiasts be enthusiastic in peace? Thanks.
Quote from: Purusha on October 22, 2015, 09:06:29 AMHo right, the modernists. What a coincidence.
I believe it was
modernists who invented cinema 100+ years ago...
Such anger and hatred because of a movie, you have.
Quote from: Purusha on October 22, 2015, 09:35:48 AM
You are right. I forgot to mention those who simply have no taste or are not intelligent enough to differentiate between good and bad entertainment. And make no mistake, almost all modern entertainment is bad. No exception. Which means we defacto live in the stupidest age in the entire history of mankind.
I'll tell you the same thing I tell my son, as I believe you're around the same age. 1. Do not have strong and definitive opinions unless they're absolutely necessary and well informed (Here, they're not). 2. It's not always what you say, but how you say it. Even a well informed opinion can come across as crass depending how you state it.
Your last few posts have show anger, hostility, and frustration. The good news is you'll outgrow this phase of your life and find that most intelligence comes through experience. You're just not there yet but hang tough. Baiting a group of individuals with genuine interest in a topic doesn't start fresh and stale with time. It starts stale and rots with time.
Quote from: Purusha on October 22, 2015, 09:35:48 AMAnd make no mistake, almost all modern entertainment is bad. No exception.
Either all modern entertainment is bad (ie, no exception), or
almost all modern entertainment is bad (ie, there are exceptions). Which is it?
You also might want to consider taking movies with laser swords less seriously.
Quote from: Todd on October 22, 2015, 10:40:07 AM
Either all modern entertainment is bad (ie, no exception), or almost all modern entertainment is bad (ie, there are exceptions). Which is it?
You also might want to consider taking movies with laser swords less seriously.
I noticed that too but took it as an Anchorman-esque "60% of the time it works every time." Then again, that's modern entertainment so disregard.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 19, 2015, 06:54:48 PM
BOOM! :o ;D
https://www.youtube.com/v/sGbxmsDFVnE
I may have mentioned this before, but I have a feeling that a heavy emphasis will be placed on the villains with the new episodes. I've always thought one of the weakest elements of Eps. I-III was the lack of, or threat, of a true villain. Darth Maul only had about 10 minutes of real screen time, and Palpatine, Dooku and Gen. Grevious were never very strong. But seeing that Vader is the face of the franchise, its become obvious that the Dark Side sells.
No villain named "dooku" can be taken seriously 8)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 22, 2015, 11:40:31 AM
I may have mentioned this before, but I have a feeling that a heavy emphasis will be placed on the villains with the new episodes. I've always thought one of the weakest elements of Eps. I-III was the lack of, or threat, of a true villain. Darth Maul only had about 10 minutes of real screen time, and Palpatine, Dooku and Gen. Grevious were never very strong. But seeing that Vader is the face of the franchise, its become obvious that the Dark Side sells.
It's interesting you mention this. I've been considering possible plot twists and I firmly believe episodes VII-IX will have a tough time pulling off unanticipated twists. The main twists of IV-VI numbered 2 and the 1st certainly trumped the 2nd in terms of shock value (Vader as father over Leia as sister). With episodes I-III, twists weren't very relevant, as "how" became more important than "if". Whether Luke turned/turns bad or a main character dies (It has to happen at least once. Hopefully in episode IX), plot twists will be a tough sale here. My prediction: Han, Leia, and Chewbacca will all die during these films, and I hope towards the end. Then again, sometimes even expected events can shock if handled correctly.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 22, 2015, 11:40:31 AMBut seeing that Vader is the face of the franchise
That is indeed the case. Last time I was in Seattle, the EMP Museum had a display of original Star Wars costumes from all the movies, and one had to wander through all the costumes before ending up at the Darth Vader costume, guarded, naturally, by a Storm Trooper. It's a travelling exhibit (even Paul Allen money couldn't buy it), so who knows where they end up next.
(The EMP museum also has on permanent display the hover police car from Blade Runner, Jack's axe from The Shining, Leeloo's costume fro The Fifth Element, among many other items. It's chock full of many artifacts from modern entertainments, which, as we now know, are all bad, without exception. Almost. People who enjoy popular entertainments could do worse than visiting the museum if in the Emerald City.)
Quote from: 71 dB on October 22, 2015, 09:48:58 AM
I believe it was modernists who invented cinema 100+ years ago...
To the detriment of humanity as a whole.
Quote from: Todd on October 22, 2015, 10:40:07 AMEither all modern entertainment is bad (ie, no exception), or almost all modern entertainment is bad (ie, there are exceptions). Which is it?
Yes, my mistake.
All modern entertainment is bad.
Quote from: Todd on October 22, 2015, 10:40:07 AMYou also might want to consider taking movies with laser swords less seriously.
I don't think you understand the severity of the situation when a movie with laser swords, a poorly written script and so so acting stands heads and shoulders above 99% of modern Hollywood productions. It is sort of surreal to witness this kind of cavalier attitude to what is in effect
the end of our civilization. Is there nothing at all anyone holds sacred anymore?
Quote from: Todd on October 22, 2015, 11:56:26 AM. . . Leeloo's costume from The Fifth Element . . .
What,
both lengths of narrow bandage? 8)
Quote from: Purusha on October 22, 2015, 12:27:11 PM
Yes, my mistake. All modern entertainment is bad.
I don't think you understand the severity of the situation when a movie with laser swords, a poorly written script and so so acting stands heads and shoulders above 99% of modern Hollywood productions. It is sort of surreal to witness this kind of cavalier attitude to what is in effect the end of our civilization. Is there nothing at all anyone holds sacred anymore?
Given these two quotes, I think this should read,
Yes, my mistake. All modern entertainment is bad. I don't think you understand the severity of the situation when a movie with laser swords, a poorly written script and so so acting stands heads and shoulders above 99% of modern Hollywood productions, which are also in my opinion, BAD. It is sort of surreal to witness this kind of cavalier attitude to what is in effect the end of our civilization. Is there nothing at all anyone holds sacred anymore? What's worth holding sacred if it's all bad? So basically, you care about the order of trash where most simply discard it? Face it. Your boat has holes and it's taking on water at an alarming rate.
Quote from: -abe- on October 21, 2015, 08:37:36 PM
These guys are the bane of cinema: Robert Orci, Alex Kurtzman, Damon Lindeoff, and J.J Abrams. They're all pals too and work together often.
Heck, even Michael Bay made one legitimately kickass movie -- "The Rock" (1996). The guys above can't point to anything worthwhile they've done. Why is it negative to complain about that?
Because it is, like, all subjective and stuff. Besides, somebody actually likes the work of those people. Are you saying their opinion doesn't count?
Quote from: Purusha on October 22, 2015, 12:27:11 PMIt is sort of surreal to witness this kind of cavalier attitude to what is in effect the end of our civilization.
Star Wars as a (the?) harbinger of the collapse of civilization. Got it.
Quote from: Todd on October 22, 2015, 01:49:11 PM
Star Wars as a (the?) harbinger of the collapse of civilization. Got it.
Dang. I
knew it!
Quote from: Purusha on October 22, 2015, 12:27:11 PM
It is sort of surreal to witness this kind of cavalier attitude to what is in effect the end of our civilization.
You can always join Sean's Hand-Wringers Club!
Quote from: Todd on October 22, 2015, 01:49:11 PMStar Wars as a (the?) harbinger of the collapse of civilization. Got it.
Nothing worse than somebody who thinks himself witty while misconstruing someone's argument.
Quote from: Purusha on October 22, 2015, 02:36:45 PM
Nothing worse than somebody who thinks himself witty while misconstruing someone's argument.
You're not presenting arguments. You're writing utterly ridiculous, hyperbolic claptrap. When you end up writing about the collapse of civilization, you cannot be taken seriously.
Even if it is true?
I mean, after all, civilizations do end, so i'm not sure what makes you think this one is going to be the exception when there's every indication that it is already on its last gasp, with our entertainment being so mind-numbingly idiotic as one of the many signs western culture has finally overstayed its welcome, and good riddance at this point.
Quote from: Purusha on October 22, 2015, 03:14:59 PMI mean, after all, civilizations do end, so i'm not sure what makes you think this one is going to be the exception
Please point out where I wrote such a thing. Any post, any topic. I also acknowledge that the earth will be destroyed by the sun one day. That doesn't mean either event (or more accurately, series of events) is imminent. I think it eminently silly to bring up the collapse of civilization in a thread devoted to a sequel. Perspective is in order.
It isn't just this one sequel. It is every single piece of entertainment produced today being complete and utter garbage.
James, are you Purusha in disguise? :-\ Don't worry, I won't tell anyone. :)
Quote from: Purusha on October 22, 2015, 03:41:43 PM
It isn't just this one sequel. It is every single piece of entertainment produced today being complete and utter garbage.
Yes, you already clarified your position on modern entertainment. That doesn't mean anything.
Quote from: Todd on October 22, 2015, 03:52:40 PM
Yes, you already clarified your position on modern entertainment. That doesn't mean anything.
Well, entertainment has been in a steady decline, starting with
Die Zauberflöte and its dratted spoken dialogue.
Quote from: Todd on October 22, 2015, 03:52:40 PMYes, you already clarified your position on modern entertainment. That doesn't mean anything.
It means plenty since i'm clearly in the right and anyone who isn't an idiot probably agrees as well but is too afraid to speak out because he doesn't want to appear to be "rude", or has been brainwashed to believe in this relativistic nonsense about everything being nothing but a "subjective" opinion and there being no such thing as truth beyond that which can be directly quantified, meaning, everything that doesn't actually require the aid of the intelligence to be understood. Because to be intelligent means to know that Beethoven is a greater artist than Britney Spears and the "subjective" opinion of millions of idiotic teenage girls is completely and utterly irrelevant, because it is the opinion of the uninformed and the unintelligent.
Star Wars: The Force Awakens will be just as good as the recent Star Trek films, with J.J Abrams being the main creative vision and all. You will have a good time to look forward to if you liked those films. I myself just wonder how such a mediocrity as Abrams could gain so much power and status in Hollywood.
Why get angry about how bad the new movie will be if the old ones are already bad enough to count as harbingers of the End of Modern/Western civilization? Shouldn't only those who liked the older movies bear grudges against the franchise if they think the newer (or future) ones are much worse? So the decline set in between ca. 1984 and the early 2000s, not 1914 or 1789 or 1517 or whenever traditionalists think it started going down....
The issue isn't that this particular movie is going to be bad. The issue is that everything is bad and nobody seems to either notice or care. Is there anyone with a functioning brain left in this God forsaken culture anymore? I don't get it.
Quote from: Purusha on October 23, 2015, 01:56:13 AM
The issue isn't that this particular movie is going to be bad. The issue is that everything is bad and nobody seems to either notice or care. Is there anyone with a functioning brain left in this God forsaken culture anymore? I don't get it.
I liked "Mad Max: Fury Road." Did you see that movie?
Quote from: karlhenning on October 22, 2015, 11:45:12 AM
No villain named "dooku" can be taken seriously 8)
It's twice the funnier for Finns, because of the name's resemblance to a certain finnish slang word describing drinking. Oh well, anything is better than "General Grievous". To quote Redlettermedia, there's also "Commander Nefarious, Captain I'm-a-bad-guy and Admiral Bone To Pick. But they don't mention them."
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 22, 2015, 03:52:08 PM
James, are you Purusha in disguise? :-\ Don't worry, I won't tell anyone. :)
That cannot be. James likes Star Wars. Even the prequels.
Quote from: Purusha on October 22, 2015, 11:09:18 PM
It means plenty since i'm clearly in the right and anyone who isn't an idiot probably agrees as well but is too afraid to speak out because he doesn't want to appear to be "rude", or has been brainwashed to believe in this relativistic nonsense about everything being nothing but a "subjective" opinion and there being no such thing as truth beyond that which can be directly quantified, meaning, everything that doesn't actually require the aid of the intelligence to be understood. Because to be intelligent means to know that Beethoven is a greater artist than Britney Spears and the "subjective" opinion of millions of idiotic teenage girls is completely and utterly irrelevant, because it is the opinion of the uninformed and the unintelligent.
Right; and
Beethoven is a representative example of the average cultural product consumed by people 200 years ago, and
Britney Spears is a representative example of what the cultural elite of the past twenty years caters to. I applaud you for having the courage to say that this kind of comparison 'means plenty since you are clearly in the right and anyone who isn't an idiot probably agrees... or has been brainwashed'. ::)
Quote from: Jo498 on October 22, 2015, 11:58:23 PM
Why get angry about how bad the new movie will be if the old ones are already bad enough to count as harbingers of the End of Modern/Western civilization?
He's angry because he was hoping the latest movie would be (wait . for . it . )
A New Hope . . . .
I still don't get it. I ignore lots of popular culture myself and think it is crap. But exactly for this reason I don't give a damn about any new Starwars movie. As I said, I have not seen any of the 3 more recent ones, maybe I never will. Neither am I forced by peer pressure (too old and cranky for that already in my early 40s...) to watch it.
So why get worked up? Cuddle up with your copy of Spengler (or St Thomas, St Augustine or Ortega or Cioran or whatever) and put Beethoven or Palestrina on the stereo. Or Bach cantatas: Falsche Welt, dir trau ich nicht!
Quote from: Jo498 on October 23, 2015, 04:45:28 AM
I still don't get it. I ignore lots of popular culture myself and think it is crap. But exactly for this reason I don't give a damn about any new Starwars movie. As I said, I have not seen any of the 3 more recent ones, maybe I never will. Neither am I forced by peer pressure (too old and cranky for that already in my early 40s...) to watch it.
So why get worked up? Cuddle up with your copy of Spengler (or St Thomas, St Augustine or Ortega or Cioran or whatever) and put Beethoven or Palestrina on the stereo. Or Bach cantatas: Falsche Welt, dir trau ich nicht!
:laugh:
Quote from: karlhenning on October 23, 2015, 04:36:35 AM
He's angry because he was hoping the latest movie would be (wait . for . it . ) A New Hope . . . .
(http://i.imgur.com/me5Ug8E.jpg)
Quote from: -abe- on October 23, 2015, 02:36:16 AM
I liked "Mad Max: Fury Road." Did you see that movie?
Not yet. I live in Italy, and i refuse to see a movie unless it is in the original language, which means i'll have to wait until it is out on disc. I'll reserve judgment until then, and if i remember i'll check back here to rant about how terrible the movie is, and why you must hate it too. >:D
Quote from: North Star on October 23, 2015, 03:57:58 AM
Right; and Beethoven is a representative example of the average cultural product consumed by people 200 years ago, and Britney Spears is a representative example of what the cultural elite of the past twenty years caters to. I applaud you for having the courage to say that this kind of comparison 'means plenty since you are clearly in the right and anyone who isn't an idiot probably agrees... or has been brainwashed'. ::)
That wasn't the argument. Too much sophistry going on with those responses.
Quote from: Purusha on October 22, 2015, 11:09:18 PMIt means plenty since i'm clearly in the right
I see.
In your estimation, about what year did the world start going down the toilet?
Quote from: Todd on October 23, 2015, 05:29:16 AM
I see.
In your estimation, about what year did the world start going down the toilet?
From day one. Indeed, decline is inherent in material reality itself. But if you are talking about the west specifically, i'd say things started to go awry starting with the Renaissance. Not to say that medieval civilization was perfect, but at least it sought to adhere to the right principles.
Quote from: Purusha on October 23, 2015, 05:34:12 AMFrom day one. Indeed, decline is inherent in material reality itself. But if you are talking about the west specifically, i'd say things started to go awry starting with the Renaissance.
One of the important developments of Renaissance art was of course perspective. You clearly have something against it.
QuoteNot to say that medieval civilization was perfect, but at least it sought to adhere to the right principles.
What exactly were those right principles?
Quote from: Purusha on October 23, 2015, 05:34:12 AMBut if you are talking about the west specifically, i'd say things started to go awry starting with the Renaissance. Not to say that medieval civilization was perfect, but at least it sought to adhere to the right principles.
There's your problem.
Quote from: North Star on October 23, 2015, 05:40:58 AMOne of the important developments of Renaissance art was of course perspective.
Important only if you don't understand what the purpose of art is. Modern art is a reaction to the limitations inherent in naturalistic art in the first place, except this reaction pushed things downwards rather than upwards, towards the formless rather than the supra-formal.
Quote from: North Star on October 23, 2015, 05:40:58 AMWhat exactly were those right principles?
Transcendence and truth.
Quote from: Todd on October 23, 2015, 06:34:37 AMThere's your problem.
Is it? Look are you man, how long is the charade going to last? Modern civilization is rotten to the core, and the emperor has no clothes anymore. The whole apparatus is falling apart as we speak but it seems some people just don't want to accept the basic reality of things.
Quote from: Purusha on October 23, 2015, 06:42:20 AM
Is it? Look are you man, how long is the charade going to last? Modern civilization is rotten to the core, and the emperor has no clothes anymore. The whole apparatus is falling apart as we speak but it seems some people just don't want to accept the basic reality of things.
I see.
Quote from: Purusha on October 23, 2015, 06:42:20 AM
Is it? Look are you man, how long is the charade going to last? Modern civilization is rotten to the core, and the emperor has no clothes anymore. The whole apparatus is falling apart as we speak but it seems some people just don't want to accept the basic reality of things.
I'm guessing you're a glass half empty sort of person....
Quote from: Purusha on October 23, 2015, 06:35:59 AM
Important only if you don't understand what the purpose of art is. Modern art is a reaction to the limitations inherent in naturalistic art in the first place, except this reaction pushed things downwards rather than upwards, towards the formless rather than the supra-formal.
Do tell us what the purpose of art is. I do not seem yet to understand what it is.
Modern art a reaction to naturalistic depiction? E.g.
Seurat,
Monet,
Degas, or
Cezanne certainly were not against naturalism. All of them made their art a study of human perception of visual information or life in different ways. Formless is also a label that is hard to put on much of modern art, e.g.
Picasso of any period,
Kandinsky,
Mondrian, or
Rothko.
And
Pollock is the most naturalistic depiction of an ionization chamber I have seen in art.
I said it is a reaction against the limitation of naturalistic art, not naturalistic art as such. The two are not the same thing.
Quote from: mc ukrneal on October 23, 2015, 06:59:22 AM
I'm guessing you're a glass half empty sort of person....
Am i? I believe in beauty, transcendence, the existence of the divine and God. Moderns believe in nothing, and everything they do reeks of cynicism and nihilism.
Quote from: Purusha on October 23, 2015, 07:16:42 AM
Moderns believe in nothing, and everything they do reeks of cynicism and nihilism.
Have some more straw?
I suppose that like a lot of people I'll probably watch the new film for reasons rooted in nostalgia. I remember seeing the first one in the cinema at the end of the street urchin years when my little friends and I never had any money. So we sneaked in via the fire exit and (pro tip here) split up and sat far apart, making it more difficult for the manager to easily identify the group who had come in.
I've an additional memory of that era and how a couple of the guys came into school after lunchtime, having shoplifted numerous copies of a Star Wars tie-in book titled 'Splinter in the Eye'(?) which to our dismay contained no steamy sex scenes featuring Princess Leia. Woe. But I used that book and a similarly stolen magazine dedicated to customising road cars (which strangely enough, featured photos of topless women posing in the cars) to teach one of my friends how to read and do simple arithmetic "Four multiplied by two equals eight. No? Okay, a V8 engine has two sets of four cylinders, so... ...yeah, you've got it. And then if we add to that the number of breasts that nice lady lounging on the roof has?"
Note: I have never made a lightsabre sound in my life.
I wonder why Purusha does use electricity, computers and the internet, all manifestations of the modern civilization Purusha thinks is rotten to the core. Purusha seems to want Transcendence (superstition?) and Truth (flat Earth?). I wonder how anyone can have such opinions. I can try to respect them, but I could never understand them.
Quote from: 71 dB on October 23, 2015, 08:35:21 AM
I wonder why Purusha does use electricity, computers and the internet, all manifestations of the modern civilization Purusha thinks is rotten to the core.
Perhaps he's a cynical nihilist?
Quote from: 71 dB on October 23, 2015, 08:35:21 AM
I wonder why Purusha does use electricity, computers and the internet, all manifestations of the modern civilization Purusha thinks is rotten to the core.
Because there is no alternative? I guess you are one of those who swallowed the progressivist cool-aid hook, line and sinker and really believes ancient life was no different from how the Amish live today, except more primitive and miserable (even as the produces of those civilizations adorn the halls of our museums). Traditional life has been completely obliterated by modernity. To argue that one inimical to modern life ought to check out of modern civilization when checking out of modern civilization means to starve to death is a bit silly. Restore to me what the ancient world had to offer and i'll gladly throw your electricity, computers and internet in the gutter. Those advantages simply do not justify what has been lost.
It's either Internet forums and computer games or starvation!
Quote from: Purusha on October 23, 2015, 10:11:03 AM
Because there is no alternative?
No alternative? Who forces you to write here? Why don't you write your thoughs with ink on papyrus instead? Just start living the way people lived before renaissance. As long as you keep using modern inventions while telling how rotten the civilization has come you are a hypocrite.
Quote from: Purusha on October 23, 2015, 10:11:03 AM
Because there is no alternative? I guess you are one of those who swallowed the progressivist cool-aid hook, line and sinker and really believes ancient life was no different from how the Amish live today, except more primitive and miserable (even as the produces of those civilizations adorn the halls of our museums). Traditional life has been completely obliterated by modernity. To argue that one inimical to modern life ought to check out of modern civilization when checking out of modern civilization means to starve to death is a bit silly. Restore to me what the ancient world had to offer and i'll gladly throw your electricity, computers and internet in the gutter. Those advantages simply do not justify what has been lost.
That is unexpected! You're a romantic! Who would of guessed....
Quote from: Purusha on October 23, 2015, 10:11:03 AMi'll gladly throw your electricity, computers and internet in the gutter. Those advantages simply do not justify what has been lost.
Absolutely nothing has been lost. If you want to lead a medieval lifestyle, with nothing but medieval thoughts and morals permeating your conscious, go right ahead. Many individuals live in the past. You could do the same. But the truth is, I suspect, you don't really want to give up your modern, decadent existence. It's just too comfortable...and entertaining. Give up your computer games? I don't think you're ready to give
that up :D But acting superior to the rest of us is certainly comforting to you, isn't it.
Sarge
Quote from: Purusha on October 23, 2015, 10:11:03 AMI guess you are one of those who swallowed the progressivist cool-aid hook, line and sinker and really believes ancient life was no different from how the Amish live today, except more primitive and miserable (even as the produces of those civilizations adorn the halls of our museums).
So much straw, so little time.
Quote from: Purusha on October 23, 2015, 01:56:13 AM
The issue isn't that this particular movie is going to be bad. The issue is that everything is bad and nobody seems to either notice or care. Is there anyone with a functioning brain left in this God forsaken culture anymore? I don't get it.
Some of us prefer to engage the culture by creating art we like, rather than take pot shots at art we don't like. :)
Quote from: Todd on October 23, 2015, 02:02:36 PM
So much straw, so little time.
As opposed to the red herring that has been fueling this last page.
I don't know about any of you guys, but I personally love reveling in the decadence of the past century. 8)
Getting back to Star Wars since this what this thread is about, that new trailer looks rather good. I also think just because it's J. J. Abrams directing that it's somehow going to be a 'bad' film by many people is just preposterous as these so-called 'haters' haven't even seen the film yet. Let's stop jumping to conclusions and give it a chance. Star Wars has never been a series that has been 'thought-provoking' or 'life affirming,' these films are supposed to be fun with a decent storyline. The special effects, costumes, general atmosphere, and the cool characters are why people return to this series over and over again.
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 24, 2015, 06:18:49 AM
Getting back to Star Wars since this what this thread is about, that new trailer looks rather good.
Yes, it looks good with all the X-wings and Millennium Falcon flying around. It's exactly what people want to see and that's worrying me. I want decisions by movie-makers, not by people. I don't want to see Millennium Falcon because Lisa and Matt in Florida wants to see Millennium Falcon. I want to see the artistic vision of movie-makers. People didn't create Star Wars in the first place, George Lucas did. People think they know better than Lucas how Star Wars movies should be made (demonstrated by the PT hate). How naive they are. George Lucas is an extraordinary film-maker and visionary. Lesser movie-makers don't create such cultural phenomenona as Star Wars. Now, the question is whether J. J. Abrams has tried to direct the movie as Lucas would have or is he just trying to please the crowd? I don't know and it remains to be seen when the movie comes out.
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 24, 2015, 06:18:49 AMI also think just because it's J. J. Abrams directing that it's somehow going to be a 'bad' film by many people is just preposterous as these so-called 'haters' haven't even seen the film yet. Let's stop jumping to conclusions and give it a chance.
I agree. Judging the movie before seeing it is arrogant. My thoughts at the moment are based on the trailers and other information available. That's very limited.
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 24, 2015, 06:18:49 AMStar Wars has never been a series that has been 'thought-provoking' or 'life affirming,' these films are supposed to be fun with a decent storyline. The special effects, costumes, general atmosphere, and the cool characters are why people return to this series over and over again.
Star Wars is about telling old mythical stories that have been told throughout the human history in a new way relevant to new generations. Star Wars deals with themes common and familiar to all cultures. As Lucas himself says: "Every generation finds a new way to tell the same stories over and over again".
Perhaps this is trailer that everyone's been waiting for.
https://www.youtube.com/v/qFu_dxwU-sk
A new trailer, for the Asian market. Lots of new shots and some of them are quite juicy!
https://www.youtube.com/v/SdAUiyeJMFQ
Quote from: Rinaldo on November 06, 2015, 08:09:20 AM
A new trailer, for the Asian market. Lots of new shots and some of them are quite juicy!
https://www.youtube.com/v/SdAUiyeJMFQ
More focus on the young woman this time. Interesting.
Thanks for the posting, Rinaldo!
Quote from: TheGSMoeller
More focus on the young woman this time. Interesting.
Thanks for the posting, Rinaldo!
Judging by the poster, she's the main character.
Grrrrl Force!
Today's (Nov. 6th)
Wall Street Journal has a long article on the 3 prequels and how awful/mediocre/terrible/silly/annoying/etc. they were:
Quote...Novelist and MIT professor Junot Díaz was eight years old when he saw the original "Star Wars." Now 46, the writer said, "The second Star Wars trilogy proved that you could, in fact, retroactively damage a pop-cultural masterpiece."...
Complaints about the prequels are plentiful, if perhaps nitpicky to outsiders. Some say "Menace" really offered no characters to cheer for. It centered on a childhood version of villain Darth Vader as a prepubescent twerp. It introduced the annoying—and, to some, racist—character Jar Jar Binks. (Wall Street Journal critic Joe Morgenstern called Jar Jar "a Rastafarian Stepin Fetchit.") It rendered the mystical power of "The Force" mundane by attributing it to "midi-chlorians"—germlike organisms inside people.
"Attack of the Clones" in 2002 and "Revenge of the Sith" in 2005 brought loyalists further heartbreak. Star Wars fan Mike Stoklasa, whose online video critiques of fantasy movies run as long as 90 minutes, began his analysis of "Attack of the Clones" by calling it "the worst thing ever made by a human, except for bagpipes." (He reviews under the name Mr. Plinkett.) His "Revenge of the Sith" review suggested "Sith" was an anagram for what the movie was made of. "I think we all saw this movie just to get it over with," he said. "This was like going to an autopsy."
Collectively, the prequel trilogy delivered one stomach punch after another to some hard-core fans—generally men of a certain age—who had invested so much passion in the franchise.
See:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/fans-love-hate-relationship-with-the-star-wars-franchise-1446662135 (http://www.wsj.com/articles/fans-love-hate-relationship-with-the-star-wars-franchise-1446662135)
Quote"I think we all saw this movie just to get it over with," he said. "This was like going to an autopsy."
That's beautiful.
Quote"I think we all saw this movie just to get it over with," he said. "This was like going to an autopsy."
Quote from: karlhenning on November 06, 2015, 11:18:16 AM
That's beautiful.
Mr. Plinkett has a certain style $:) : if you want to hear him tear apart the ill logic in the script nearly scene by scene...
https://www.youtube.com/v/ho16PDZGzDM
He had no right to insult bagpipes...
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on November 06, 2015, 01:40:35 PM
He had no right to insult bagpipes...
True! :laugh: I recently heard this in Season 4 of
Arrested Development: "As with all bagpipe music, it was hard to tell if it was good music played horribly, or horrible music played well."
Plinkett's dissection of the prequels is something that should be taught at film schools.
I quite enjoyed that documentary (available on Netflix) called "The People vs George Lucas" which presented in amusing detail Star Wars geeks' beef with Mr. Lucas.
The Emperor's Phone Call (slightly nsfw)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F1d3QWsyk0
An excellent part from that documentary showing how the super-Star Wars fans had so much anticipation for "The Phantom Menace" and ended up getting disappointed. Of course we know a lot of people didn't like those films but it's amusing watching these fans relate their story of high expectations and let down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxbPybTg08E
Quote from: Cato on November 06, 2015, 10:41:22 AM
Today's (Nov. 6th) Wall Street Journal has a long article on the 3 prequels and how awful/mediocre/terrible/silly/annoying/etc. they were:
See:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/fans-love-hate-relationship-with-the-star-wars-franchise-1446662135 (http://www.wsj.com/articles/fans-love-hate-relationship-with-the-star-wars-franchise-1446662135)
Did he also mention that Haydn Christensen's "performances" (the word grates in this context) was the worst in a leading role in a major movie ever (I have no time to read the whole article)? The sheer awfulness of it all beggars belief.
It's cool to have another Star Wars movie out, but I don't like how the buzz has resulted in all the Lucas/Ep. I-III hate come up again. There are actually some people who love the prequels and I am one of them. I love the way Lucas took the saga into the 21st century just as much as I love the original trilogy. I feel I need to isolate myself from the world, because I am so fed up with the bashing. It's scary, like a fundamental religion with one truth. People "brainwash" themselves watching all kind Youtube documents of "how bad" the prequels are. Bashing PT has become a new way of snobbism. They are brillant movies, just in a different way people expect. Most people apparently never got that. I did.
I've always loved Plinkett's reviews and Robot Chicken. ;D
Quote from: 71 dB on November 07, 2015, 02:20:19 AM
It's cool to have another Star Wars movie out, but I don't like how the buzz has resulted in all the Lucas/Ep. I-III hate come up again. There are actually some people who love the prequels and I am one of them. I love the way Lucas took the saga into the 21st century just as much as I love the original trilogy. I feel I need to isolate myself from the world, because I am so fed up with the bashing. It's scary, like a fundamental religion with one truth. People "brainwash" themselves watching all kind Youtube documents of "how bad" the prequels are. Bashing PT has become a new way of snobbism. They are brillant movies, just in a different way people expect. Most people apparently never got that. I did.
I think the main issue is that people don't like the movie because it isn't what they wanted it to be. It is one of the reasons I always liked Roger Ebert's reviews. He reviews the movie as it is and rarely reviews it against what it could have been. I think it is a rare quality though and most people review it against what they wanted it to be. But then expectations were so high for Phantom Menace - I'm not sure it could ever have met them. In this sense, perhaps the new series has more modest expectations and thus is more likely to be viewed favorably.
Quote from: mc ukrneal on November 07, 2015, 04:07:23 AM
I think the main issue is that people don't like the movie because it isn't what they wanted it to be. It is one of the reasons I always liked Roger Ebert's reviews. He reviews the movie as it is and rarely reviews it against what it could have been. I think it is a rare quality though and most people review it against what they wanted it to be. But then expectations were so high for Phantom Menace - I'm not sure it could ever have met them. In this sense, perhaps the new series has more modest expectations and thus is more likely to be viewed favorably.
Well said, Neal.
Quote from: 71 dB on November 07, 2015, 02:20:19 AM
It's cool to have another Star Wars movie out, but I don't like how the buzz has resulted in all the Lucas/Ep. I-III hate come up again. There are actually some people who love the prequels and I am one of them. I love the way Lucas took the saga into the 21st century just as much as I love the original trilogy. I feel I need to isolate myself from the world, because I am so fed up with the bashing. Most people apparently never got that. I did.
Quote from: mc ukrneal on November 07, 2015, 04:07:23 AM
I think the main issue is that people don't like the movie because it isn't what they wanted it to be. It is one of the reasons I always liked Roger Ebert's reviews. He reviews the movie as it is and rarely reviews it against what it could have been. I think it is a rare quality though and most people review it against what they wanted it to be. But then expectations were so high for Phantom Menace - I'm not sure it could ever have met them. In this sense, perhaps the new series has more modest expectations and thus is more likely to be viewed favorably.
Quote from: The new erato on November 07, 2015, 12:48:16 AM
Did he also mention that Haydn Christensen's "performances" (the word grates in this context) was the worst in a leading role in a major movie ever (I have no time to read the whole article)? The sheer awfulness of it all beggars belief.
I can understand how people can like the movies, and why others were so disappointed: certainly there are things to enjoy in them, e.g.
Liam Neeson and
Ewan McGregor (the latter's imitation of the voice of
Alec Guiness is marvelous) are fun to watch.
In the end, (and I very much wanted to like them) I find that they they are mediocre: the scripts are just too clunky and illogical, and the casting at times is terrible (e.g.
Christensen) and yes,
Neeson, McGregor, Samuel L. Jackson, Natalie Portman, et al. are handicapped by the scripts.
Richard Basehart once commented that in comparison to hokey T.V. scripts (in his later years he was in a T.V. show called
Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea)
Shakespeare's plays were easy "
because the lines are there!" Many people would agree that for the prequels the lines are NOT there.
Quote from: Cato on November 07, 2015, 04:35:17 AM
I can understand how people can like the movies, and why others were so disappointed: certainly there are things to enjoy in them, e.g. Liam Neeson and Ewan McGregor (the latter's imitation of the voice of Alec Guiness is marvelous) are fun to watch.
In the end, (and I very much wanted to like them) I find that they they are mediocre: the scripts are just too clunky and illogical, and the casting at times is terrible (e.g. Christensen) and yes, Neeson, McGregor, Samuel L. Jackson, Natalie Portman, et al. are handicapped by the scripts.
Richard Basehart once commented that in comparison to hokey T.V. scripts (in his later years he was in a T.V. show called Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea) Shakespeare's plays were easy "because the lines are there!" Many people would agree that for the prequels the lines are NOT there.
It is the writing, Cato. In fact look back at the original trilogy, Ep.IV was written by Lucas and Ep.V and Ep.VI brought in different screenwriters, and I feel there was an obvious increase in quality with the scripts.
I think Lucas has an imaginative mind but not as good at executing that into a film as others. I feel the same way about James Cameron, he's a talented director but horrible screenwriter. Avatar and Titanic are visually stunning but the dialogue is cringe-worthy.
I think Ian McDiarmid as Palpatine was one of the more enjoyable things about prequels (Plinkett seems to agree). He overacts beautifully, chewing the scenery like only he can. It also brings thoughts back to golden days of Return of the jedi where he appeared with actually good lines.
Quote from: 71 dB on November 07, 2015, 02:20:19 AMBashing PT has become a new way of snobbism. They are brillant movies, just in a different way people expect. Most people apparently never got that. I did.
I'm glad you find enjoyment in the prequels and I can imagine there are plenty of idiots who bash them because that's what "everybody" does. That said, while I admire what Lucas
tried to do, I think he failed miserably. And even though Plinkett's reviews are quite nasty, they contain lots of moviemaking insight that goes to the root of PT's problems.
There are bits & pieces I enjoy (as Cato said, McGregor is brilliant, given the script / direction he had to work with) and the world building is still marvelous at times but for me, the prequels lack the drama, the mystique and the camaraderie of the old trilogy.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on November 07, 2015, 04:51:59 AMI think Lucas has an imaginative mind but not as good at executing that into a film as others.
Exactly. He's a genius, but one who needs other people to question him and flesh out the amazing ideas he has, just as Kasdan & Kershner did in
Empire.
I never cared for the prequels and I still think it was a big mistake killing off Darth Maul in the first installment of that trilogy. This was a character that could have had used more development and that would have been a great foil to Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker throughout the whole series.
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 07, 2015, 05:22:13 AM
I never cared for the prequels and I still think it was a big mistake killing of Darth Maul in the first installment of that trilogy. This was a character that could have had used more development and that would have been a great foil to Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker throughout the whole series.
In the Clone Wars series they actually resurrected Darth Maul. Or rather, he never actually died. Kind of weird considering that he was cut in half.
Quote from: 71 dB on November 07, 2015, 02:20:19 AM
It's cool to have another Star Wars movie out, but I don't like how the buzz has resulted in all the Lucas/Ep. I-III hate come up again. There are actually some people who love the prequels and I am one of them.
If I were you, I'd let that be my own little secret 8)
Quote from: Alberich on November 07, 2015, 05:43:37 AM
In the Clone Wars series they actually resurrected Darth Maul. Or rather, he never actually died. Kind of weird considering that he was cut in half.
And I think they did a good job with his reconstructed half-body...
(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/theclonewiki/images/c/c8/DarthMaulTCW-RevengeTrivia.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120317171944)
Also, there is a Sith named Darth Sion whose crumbling body is being held together by the dark side of the force. Crazy stuff...
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Sion
Quote from: karlhenning on November 07, 2015, 05:57:22 AM
If I were you, I'd let that be my own little secret 8)
The best thing to come out of Eps. I-III was the musical track Duel of the Fates from John Williams. It's great lightsaber battle music for a 6-year old boy, trust me I know because when the music plays at home I'm always Darth Maul getting defeated by a young Luke Skywalker. Cool part is when Fates ends I have The Throne Room music from Ep.IV start and my son gets a medal for defeating me, or Maul.
I'm raising a nerd. ;D
Quote from: Rinaldo on November 06, 2015, 08:09:20 AM
A new trailer, for the Asian market. Lots of new shots and some of them are quite juicy!
https://www.youtube.com/v/SdAUiyeJMFQ
That does look enticing. I suppose that for anyone who has not drunk the Kool-Aid viz. Epp. 1-3, the hope is that any new movie may restore a degree of artistic dignity to the franchise.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on November 07, 2015, 06:02:45 AM
The best thing to come out of Eps. I-III was the musical track Duel of the Fates from John Williams. It's great lightsaber battle music for a 6-year old boy, trust me I know because when the music plays at home I'm always Darth Maul getting defeated by a young Luke Skywalker. Cool part is when Fates ends I have The Throne Room music from Ep.IV start and my son gets a medal for defeating me, or Maul.
I'm raising a nerd. ;D
You
are his father! 8)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on November 07, 2015, 05:59:40 AMAlso, there is a Sith named Darth Sion whose crumbling body is being held together by the dark side of the force. Crazy stuff...
Sion is a great character and there's even a more intriguing villain that comes from the same game, Darth Nihilus.
(http://i64.tinypic.com/2rmtrti.jpg)
Speaks in an unknown, extinct language, feasts on the Force itself, leaves lifeless planets in his wake. Sadly, he's similarly underused as Maul was.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on November 07, 2015, 06:02:45 AM
The best thing to come out of Eps. I-III was the musical track Duel of the Fates from John Williams. It's great lightsaber battle music for a 6-year old boy, trust me I know because when the music plays at home I'm always Darth Maul getting defeated by a young Luke Skywalker. Cool part is when Fates ends I have The Throne Room music from Ep.IV start and my son gets a medal for defeating me, or Maul.
Hah, perfect! As a kid, aside from all the imaginary lightsaber wielding, I used to conduct the hell out of tracks like Asteroid Field or the Battle of Endor blasting from our family stereo.
I think it's cool that you chaps got musical inspiration here! (The movies would certainly not have inspired you to become Writers or Actors 0:) )
Quote from: karlhenning on November 07, 2015, 06:09:11 AM
You are his father! 8)
+1
At least my son, unlike Luke, doesn't scream
NNOooooooo when I remind him who his father is.
Quote from: Rinaldo on November 07, 2015, 06:11:31 AM
Hah, perfect! As a kid, aside from all the imaginary lightsaber wielding, I used to conduct the hell out of tracks like Asteroid Field or the Battle of Endor blasting from our family stereo.
Complete with lightsaber sound effects I'm hoping. ;D
Quote from: -abe- on November 06, 2015, 08:54:52 PM
The Emperor's Phone Call (slightly nsfw)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F1d3QWsyk0
Okay, I confess I watched this in morbid fascination. :laugh:
Quote from: Rinaldo on November 07, 2015, 06:11:31 AM
Sion is a great character and there's even a more intriguing villain that comes from the same game, Darth Nihilus....
The series does come up with great names for its villains. 8)
I predict most people will hate and feel let down by the new Star Wars film. Not that it matters much to me. That is all.
Quote from: Greg on November 08, 2015, 03:35:47 PM
I predict most people will hate and feel let down by the new Star Wars film. Not that it matters much to me. That is all.
My view is there's always going to be a group who deride something with the
Star Wars brand attached to it even before actually seeing the film and experiencing it first-hand. Let the naysayers talk and let the people who are actually grounded in reality judge the film for themselves.
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 08, 2015, 04:13:33 PM
My view is there's always going to be a group who deride something with the Star Wars brand attached to it even before actually seeing the film and experiencing it first-hand. Let the naysayers talk and let the people who are actually grounded in reality judge the film for themselves.
Except by "people" I meant to say "Star Wars" fans. People who don't like Star Wars won't like it, regardless, of course. There's no way this movie can live up to such high expectations.
I thought the expectations are actually very very low because after the prequels, almost any half-assed attempt will be an improvement.
Quote from: Alberich on November 08, 2015, 04:34:44 PM
I thought the expectations are actually very very low because after the prequels, almost any half-assed attempt will be an improvement.
"Beats low expectations."
Quote from: Alberich on November 08, 2015, 04:34:44 PM
I thought the expectations are actually very very low because after the prequels, almost any half-assed attempt will be an improvement.
That would be the realistic view. But the considering the hype, people like to push aside being realistic and be hopeful. Only to be let down again.
Quote from: Greg on November 08, 2015, 04:21:29 PM
Except by "people" I meant to say "Star Wars" fans. People who don't like Star Wars won't like it, regardless, of course. There's no way this movie can live up to such high expectations.
If someone is a
Star Wars fan, then a new film being released should be cause for celebration. I personally don't have too high expectations for the film, but I'm not going to kid myself and say that I'm not looking forward to seeing it, because I am. As for the hype surrounding the film, I could really careless and anyone remotely interested in the film will ignore it and evaluate whether they liked/disliked the film when they actually have seen it. Don't count your chickens before they hatch, Greg. Again, we know absolutely nothing about this film and I'm glad everything has been hushed about it.
Quote from: Greg on November 08, 2015, 05:22:48 PMBut the considering the hype, people like to push aside being realistic and be hopeful. Only to be let down again.
Given the information and the images we have so far, it is quite realistic to be hopeful. I expect a well-crafted, entertaining movie - anything beyond that will be a bonus.
Terminally Ill Man Who Saw 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' Early Has Died
I don't think it at all fair to attribute his demise to the movie.
all i want to do is to buy a light saber................ ;)
may the force with everyone!
Picked up some cool Stars Warsiors. Wise Puppet was my favourite squadron from firstmission. Can't locate Karate Farmer killings in blue. Anyone know?
(http://i.imgur.com/K0eKGOs.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ATgob1t.jpg)