Poll
Question:
Greatest unsung composer of the 20th century?
Option 1: Rued Langgaard
votes: 1
Option 2: Rued Langgaard
votes: 2
Option 3: Rued Langgaard
votes: 1
Option 4: other (specify your hearing disability)
votes: 6
Discuss.
https://www.youtube.com/v/us7fZdvQMxk
Karl Amadeus Hartmann: Nothing to discuss! 0:)
Excellently well played, Cato.
Never heard a note of Langgaard, but I agree that Hartmann is a very plausible candidate although maybe not quite as "unsung" as Langgard. There are at least two complete recordings of his symphonies (was well as a bunch of individual discs) and the violin concerto is not that unknown any more.
At this point, the discography of these two unknowns is probably roughly at parity.
Not that many composers are 'unsung' anymore tbh. Maybe Cardew or Radulescu (judging only by representation on recording).
Okay, so neither of them wrote a six minute symphony with four solo tubas, but some of the stuff they did write puts Langgaard to shame :P
Quote from: amw on April 28, 2015, 04:34:16 AM
. . . but some of the stuff they did write puts Langgaard to shame :P
Okay, I'll ask: how exactly do they succeed at that dubious endeavor?
Quote from: amw on April 28, 2015, 04:34:16 AM
Not that many composers are 'unsung' anymore tbh. Maybe Cardew or Radulescu (judging only by representation on recording).
Okay, so neither of them wrote a six minute symphony with four solo tubas, but some of the stuff they did write puts Langgaard to shame :P
There is John White, former colleague of Cardew and born in the same year (1936). And he HAS written a Symphony for Organ and SIX tubas.
And 176 piano sonatas.
Quote from: Jo498 on April 28, 2015, 04:24:00 AMNever heard a note of Langgaard
If you want to fix that, Sfærernes Musik (https://youtu.be/-6kva7ve4sc?t=10m45s) is a must.
Quote from: Cato on April 28, 2015, 04:04:51 AM
Karl Amadeus Hartmann: Nothing to discuss! 0:)
Good call, but he already has the respect, if not the glory, while poor old Rued is still being perceived as "that jealous nut". Which he probably was but I wouldn't blame him – composing stuff that was so ahead of its time and not getting
any kind of recognition for it, I'd go mad too.
Quote from: Rinaldo on April 28, 2015, 03:38:20 AM
Discuss.
https://www.youtube.com/v/us7fZdvQMxk
What the?!?! This symphony is clearly the work of a mentally ill person. I've heard quite a bit of Langgaard, but this is a whole new level of Langgaardishness.
Quote from: Brian on April 28, 2015, 04:54:08 AM
What the?!?! This symphony is clearly the work of a mentally ill person. I've heard quite a bit of Langgaard, but this is a whole new level of Langgaardishness.
"Doctor, it's just not cute, anymore . . . ."
Quote from: Dax on April 28, 2015, 04:42:40 AM
There is John White, former colleague of Cardew and born in the same year (1936). And he HAS written a Symphony for Organ and SIX tubas.
I'm pretty sure it doesn't count unless the tubas are in unison the whole way through >.>
John White is actually sufficiently unsung that I have only one CD by him, should probably look for more.
Quote from: Brian on April 28, 2015, 04:54:08 AM
What the?!?! This symphony is clearly the work of a mentally ill person. I've heard quite a bit of Langgaard, but this is a whole new level of Langgaardishness.
Here's a better performance with some people talking about it
https://www.youtube.com/v/owV5ULJXcik
My vote goes to Other:
Havergal Brian
(I'll have my ears checked soon, Rinaldo).
P.S. I've always loved Ixion. Sheer madness is good ;D
Sarge
Quote from: Brian on April 28, 2015, 04:54:08 AM
What the?!?! This symphony is clearly the work of a mentally ill person. I've heard quite a bit of Langgaard, but this is a whole new level of Langgaardishness.
I love the exuberant tam-tam, the "marching to a different drummer" tuba line, the fact that the entire "symphony" is the same tune, the closing fanfare.
I mean, all right, I may agree that it is mad . . . but it's the kind of unhinged artistic artifact I find quite winsome.
Quote from: amw on April 28, 2015, 04:59:39 AM
I'm pretty sure it doesn't count unless the tubas are in unison the whole way through >.>
John White is actually sufficiently unsung that I have only one CD by him, should probably look for more.
Here's a better performance with some people talking about it
https://www.youtube.com/v/owV5ULJXcik
I don't know if this is necessarily a "better" performance . . . it strikes me as a bit "warmer," perhaps even a shade Elgarian. Neither aspect "bad," just not certain that this adds up to "better."
Ooh, and in fact there was a momentary horn clam . . . just saying.
Well, and in fact having the tubas so much to the fore is IMO a soundstage mistake . . . they aren't a concerto soloist, they are struggling with the surrounding sonic tide.
". . . the bold and reactionary musical outsider . . . ."
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on April 28, 2015, 05:12:15 AM
Sheer madness is good ;D
Sarge
Not if it comes with a bazooka.
I cast my vote for Rued № 2
Quote from: amw on April 28, 2015, 04:59:39 AM
I'm pretty sure it doesn't count unless the tubas are in unison the whole way through.
Now, I actually consider that a creative bit of scoring. We've all heard orchestral pieces where the four horns played a passage in unison, and it is a different color than a single horn ringing out loud. Here
Langgaard has applied that principle to the "bass horn." It is excellently and imaginatively done.
Quote from: The new erato on April 28, 2015, 05:55:07 AM
Not if it comes with a bazooka.
Yep, when it comes with a bazooka it can have negative consequences.
Sarge
"Collateral music."
Quote from: karlhenning on April 28, 2015, 06:15:27 AM
"Collateral music."
"Ya shoulda seen it, Sarge: the sixteenth notes! :'( :'( They were, they were...
everywhere! :o :o :o :o The horror! The horror!"
Quote from: Cato on April 28, 2015, 06:30:07 AM
"Ya shoulda seen it, Sarge: the sixteenth notes! :'( :'( They were, they were...everywhere! :o :o :o :o The horror! The horror!"
Quote from: karlhenning on April 28, 2015, 06:15:27 AM
"Collateral music."
George Antheil, Concerto for Bazooka, Percussion and Timid Strings.
SArge
I have heard only symphonies of Langgaard and find them rather disappointing and dull, but there was one exception which was absolutely fantastic and refreshing, it was of course Ixion.
I would vote for Vermeulen.
Too many to name.
Quote from: karlhenning on April 28, 2015, 04:38:58 AM
Okay, I'll ask: how exactly do they succeed at that dubious endeavor?
By writing for six solo tubas.
Damn!
No objection to Langgaard as I love symphonies 4-6.
But I'd probably go for Stanley Bate or Braga Santos.
No idea who the greatest is, but I personally love Maurice Ohana.
My vote goes to Charles Koechlin. There I said it! ;D I LOVE this guy's music, although I wouldn't make the claim that he was 'the greatest,' but he's certainly my favorite unsung.
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 28, 2015, 10:41:31 AM
My vote goes to Charles Koechlin. There I said it! ;D
:)
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 28, 2015, 10:41:31 AM
My vote goes to Charles Koechlin. There I said it! ;D I LOVE this guy's music, although I wouldn't make the claim that he was 'the greatest,' but he's certainly my favorite unsung.
I like his music too.
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on April 28, 2015, 06:36:52 AM
George Antheil, Concerto for Bazooka, Percussion and Timid Strings.
Sarge
Yes, this one is a
Totentanz with casualties! 8)
Quote from: mszczuj on April 28, 2015, 07:03:30 AM
I have heard only symphonies of Langgaard and find them rather disappointing and dull, but there was one exception which was absolutely fantastic and refreshing, it was of course Ixion.
I would vote for Vermeulen.
Also a favorite!
https://www.youtube.com/v/1lzmLzCAYuk
Depends on what the meaning of un is. Several listed here have extensive discographies after all. Anyone mention in The Rest is Noise really can hardly qualify.
I wouldn't say he's a favourite but Lorenzo Perosi scores pretty well in the quality to obscurity ratio. But I will toss out my choice: Graeme Koehne.
Quote from: Ken B on April 28, 2015, 01:48:59 PM
Anyone mention in The Rest is Noise really can hardly qualify.
K.A. Hartmann is out then. Rued and Havergal are still in the running for the Great Unsung 8)
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on April 28, 2015, 02:02:39 PM
K.A. Hartmann is out then. Rued and Havergal are still in the running for the Great Unsung 8)
Sarge
Rued yes. That other guy? 290 results on Amazon. And my HS English teacher had the Gothic on vinyl! So sung too much to be unsung. Perhaps he's the great
unsingable composer ... >:D
Of course I am wildly inconsistent on this! Ask me who is the great unsung hero of the twentieth century and I will answer before you can blink: George C. Marshall.
8)
Quote from: Ken B on April 28, 2015, 02:23:18 PM
Rued yes. That other guy? 290 results on Amazon. And my HS English teacher had the Gothic on vinyl!
Your teacher, one of the few, the proud, the geeks ;D
That 290 consists of much duplication and every 99 cent mp3 file. In fact Brian is still waiting for a complete cycle of symphonies (Rued has two already: Dausgaard and Stupel). Naxos has been at it for over two decades and has managed to record only half the symphonies so far. At this rate I'll be dead before the cycle is completed...if it ever is. Concerts featuring his music are almost nonexistent. To the majority of concert goers the name Havergal is as unknown as Rued. If he's known at all, it's because his fans are rather loud ;D...not that it gets us much, at least not until very recently.
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on April 28, 2015, 03:07:48 PM
Your teacher, one of the few, the proud, the geeks ;D
That 290 consists of much duplication and every 99 cent mp3 file. In fact Brian is still waiting for a complete cycle of symphonies (Rued has two already: Dausgaard and Stupel). Naxos has been at it for over two decades and has managed to record only half the symphonies so far. At this rate I'll be dead before the cycle is completed...if it ever is. Concerts featuring his music are almost nonexistent. To the majority of concert goers the name Havergal is as unknown as Rued. If he's known at all, it's because his fans are rather loud ;D...not that it gets us much, at least not until very recently.
Sarge
Yes, I have re-thought. Unsung does not mean obscure or unknown. So HB could logically be unsung.
His violin concerto suggests instead that he cannot be obscure enough, and is oversung but .... >:D
I actually have a couple CDs on the shelf that need a relistening ...
Which of his symphonies sounds least like Ives? >:D >:D
Quote from: Rinaldo on April 28, 2015, 03:38:20 AM
Discuss.
Is this some kind of joke? This is even worse than Braga-Santos.
Erich Zann
"Greatest" is problematic, as discussed extensively elsewhere on these forums. Perhaps a more accurate wording for what we're discussing might be: "Most undeservedly undersung..."
And with that in mind, I nominate: Robert Suderburg. Nobody seems to have heard of him but me, and I have heard only two works, his admirable Voyage de nuit d'apres Baudelaire for soprano and strings, and his Piano Concerto "within the mirror of time" which deserves much more attention that it has gotten (which is effectively none since its premiere and only recording by Bela Siki, Milton Katims and the Seattle Symphony Orchestra).
Gosh, and "other" is nosing ahead of the many-headed Rueds!
Quote from: jochanaan on April 30, 2015, 10:52:03 AM"Greatest" is problematic
Hence I tried to rig the game so people would see the light! Alas, to no avail.. >:( :P
Abel Decaux, but he was barely 20th century and only wrote one piece.
Quote from: MN Dave on April 28, 2015, 05:33:26 PM
Erich Zann
It´s a tie with Adrian Leverkuhn and Jean-Christophe Krafft.
Mr. Henning has asked to be classified as a 21st century composer. I applaud his sportsmanship.
Rued Numero Uno it is.
Bantock!!!!!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/v/rTXOWLHzuj4
Stravinsky.
I know, this seems silly, right? Well wander over the the greatest 20th C composer thread. Stravinsky is seriously undersung on GMG.
Quote from: Ken B on May 02, 2015, 01:41:30 PM
Stravinsky.
I know, this seems silly, right? Well wander over the the greatest 20th C composer thread. Stravinsky is seriously undersung on GMG.
I'm a huge fan! I must be letting the side down . . . .
Quote from: springrite on May 02, 2015, 12:26:06 PM
Mr. Henning has asked to be classified as a 21st century composer. I applaud his sportsmanship.
The dates of my best work will support this classification, I think.
(* takes a deep bow *)
Quote from: Ken B on May 02, 2015, 01:41:30 PM
Stravinsky.
I know, this seems silly, right? Well wander over the the greatest 20th C composer thread. Stravinsky is seriously undersung on GMG.
Yes I noticed that. Couldn't believe my eyes, but was too lazy to make up my own list.
Quote from: Florestan on May 02, 2015, 12:21:34 PM
It´s a tie with Adrian Leverkuhn and Jean-Christophe Krafft.
:D
Don't forget Otto Jägermeier!
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_J%C3%A4germeier (German only)
I always sing after Jägermeister!
(http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130401164003/cocktails/images/4/43/Jagermeister_Bottle.jpg)
Tro lo lo lo!
The music of Vermeulen and Koechlin does sing!
https://www.youtube.com/v/fCDR22ArRVQ
https://www.youtube.com/v/OAy-pMCJims
https://www.youtube.com/v/LQs8uvx3PAM
Quote from: pjme on May 04, 2015, 11:40:18 AM
The music of Koechlin does sing!
https://www.youtube.com/v/OAy-pMCJims
https://www.youtube.com/v/LQs8uvx3PAM
It certainly does! I fully concur! 8)
Just bought my first bit of Langgaard. It's on a CD I bought in Denmark for the Holmboe. I picked up quite a few extra Danish composers on my Holmboe-quest. Now that is collateral music.
Quote from: orfeo on May 06, 2015, 08:30:00 PM
Just bought my first bit of Langgaard. It's on a CD I bought in Denmark for the Holmboe. I picked up quite a few extra Danish composers on my Holmboe-quest. Now that is collateral music.
You know, now I think about it Holmboe is a strong possibility for this accolade.
He is, indeed.