GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => General Classical Music Discussion => The Polling Station => Topic started by: Jaakko Keskinen on June 23, 2016, 08:11:16 AM

Poll
Question: The superior composer is...
Option 1: Debussy votes: 20
Option 2: Ravel votes: 21
Title: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: Jaakko Keskinen on June 23, 2016, 08:11:16 AM
The great Impressionists (forgive me, Claude, for using that term)!

My vote is for Debussy.
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: Jaakko Keskinen on June 23, 2016, 08:34:00 AM
Damn, that one time I forget to use the search-command.   :(
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: Karl Henning on June 23, 2016, 09:34:51 AM
Quote from: Alberich on June 23, 2016, 08:34:00 AM
Damn, that one time I forget to use the search-command.   :(

8)
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: Ken B on June 23, 2016, 09:46:25 AM
Pistols at dawn?
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: Mirror Image on June 23, 2016, 06:22:36 PM
Ravel on the strength of his ballets, piano concertos, song cycles, Piano Trio, Violin Sonata, and L'enfant et les sortileges. I do admire Debussy a lot, though, and who, in my opinion, composed some of the most remarkable chamber music of the 20th Century.
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on July 05, 2016, 04:37:31 AM
Both are remarkable but very different; the only reason to lump Maurice together with the great Claude (who got my vote because of his greater originality) is that they lived at the same time. But Ken is all wet about the composer of La Mer.
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: jochanaan on July 06, 2016, 06:38:50 PM
This poll asks a truly "Unanswered Question."  Debussy is perhaps the more fiery genius; yet Ravel has greater technical ability and range... ???
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on July 13, 2016, 01:25:34 AM
EXCUSEZ-MOI?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE0fgkRrRhM

8)
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: Scion7 on July 13, 2016, 06:57:19 PM
Well, Debussy has made more of a mark on musical history than Ravel.
Ravel's stuff is very nice and I like all the instrumental pieces he wrote, and of course, his orchestration for R-K's Pictures.
But he didn't really tread "new" territory the way Debussy did.
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: kishnevi on July 13, 2016, 07:36:28 PM
From most composers I get ear fatigue after two or three CDs in a row. Some composers only one CD. Then I need to change to a different sonic universe.

A select group of composers do not affect me this way. I can pretty much listen to them all day long:. Beethoven Bach Mozart Haydn....Debussy as well, but not Ravel.

So I voted Debussy.
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: The new erato on July 13, 2016, 11:17:12 PM
Very different composers. I think Debussy is the more remarkable genius, but for actual listening I tend to favor Ravel. So I would vote for both, depending upon what's the real issue here.
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: Madiel on July 15, 2016, 11:08:02 PM
Quote from: Scion7 on July 13, 2016, 06:57:19 PM
But he didn't really tread "new" territory the way Debussy did.

So people say. But Ravel was actually quite annoyed about a couple of instances where Debussy received credit for something that Ravel had already done.

For instance, he publicly took issue with the critic Lalo, who peddled the line that Debussy was the one who had created a wholly original piano style, and pointed out that Jeux d'eau was written before Debussy's greatest piano pieces.
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: Autumn Leaves on July 15, 2016, 11:38:09 PM
Think this is a really close race - both have excellent Orchestral pieces, Chamber Music and Songs. I prefer Ravel's Opera to Debussy's. Ravel wrote some excellent Piano Music but I think Debussy's is of a higher standard overall and I do believe theres more of it than Ravel's?.
I am quite fond of Piano Music so for this Poll I would probably put Debussy as the winner just ahead of Ravel by the slightest of margins :)
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: TheGSMoeller on July 16, 2016, 01:04:01 AM
Ravel wrote La Valse, so he gets my vote.
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: The new erato on July 16, 2016, 02:19:51 AM
My definitely least favorite Ravel work.
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: kishnevi on July 16, 2016, 09:40:34 AM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 16, 2016, 01:04:01 AM
Ravel wrote La Valse, so he gets my vote.

Your avatar just about sums up my feelings about La Valse and Bolero
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: TheGSMoeller on July 16, 2016, 10:28:15 AM
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on July 16, 2016, 09:40:34 AM
Your avatar just about sums up my feelings about La Valse and Bolero

Don't be frightened.  0:)
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: Marc on July 16, 2016, 10:30:56 AM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 16, 2016, 01:04:01 AM
Ravel wrote La Valse, so he gets my vote.

Ditto.

;D

Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 16, 2016, 11:35:35 AM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 16, 2016, 01:04:01 AM
Ravel wrote La Valse, so he gets my vote.

If I were voting, that would be a major reason to pick Ravel. But I really can't choose between the two composers. I tried, I really tried, but I can't  ;D

Sarge
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on July 16, 2016, 06:31:30 PM
Ultimately I picked Debussy because I prefer his piano music to Ravel's.
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: Madiel on July 16, 2016, 08:30:07 PM
I picked Ravel for the equal and opposite reason.

This poll is inclining me to do some genuine side-by-side comparison, across genres/timeframes. Which I suspect can only be a win-win for me because let's face it, they were both pretty awesome.
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: Ken B on July 17, 2016, 05:43:58 AM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 16, 2016, 01:04:01 AM
Ravel wrote La Valse, so he gets my vote.

Must be a typo. This is a reason to vote for Debussy. La Mer is the reason to vote Ravel.






>:D
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: Ken B on July 17, 2016, 05:51:30 AM
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on July 05, 2016, 04:37:31 AM
But Ken is all wet about the composer of La Mer.

Hard to listen to that without getting at least a bit soggy.  ;)

Actually I voted for Debussy. This isn't close in my opinion. Debussy's best music is for piano. Debussy or Bartok is a tough one, but not Debussy or Ravel.
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: TheGSMoeller on July 17, 2016, 06:09:06 AM
Quote from: Ken B on July 17, 2016, 05:51:30 AM
Hard to listen to that without getting at least a bit soggy.  ;)

Actually I voted for Debussy. This isn't close in my opinion. Debussy's best music is for piano. Debussy or Bartok is a tough one, but not Debussy or Ravel.

Bartok for the win!!

Ill also add Ravel's piano concertos and a better string quartet for more reasons for my vote.

(runs away and hides)
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: Ken B on July 17, 2016, 06:20:01 AM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 17, 2016, 06:09:06 AM
Bartok for the win!!

Ill also add Ravel's piano concertos and a better string quartet for more reasons for my vote.

(runs away and hides)

Which better string quartet are you adding? The one with the grosse fugue?

;)
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: Mirror Image on July 17, 2016, 06:24:40 AM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 17, 2016, 06:09:06 AM
Bartok for the win!!

Ill also add Ravel's piano concertos and a better string quartet for more reasons for my vote.

(runs away and hides)

Let's not discount Debussy here. While you may not enjoy his SQ as much as Ravel's, the man composed some extraordinary music. The Cello Sonata, Violin Sonata, and Sonata for Flute, Viola, & Harp alone put Debussy into the stratosphere of greats for me.
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: TheGSMoeller on July 17, 2016, 07:06:28 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 17, 2016, 06:24:40 AM
Let's not discount Debussy here. While you may not enjoy his SQ as much as Ravel's, the man composed some extraordinary music. The Cello Sonata, Violin Sonata, and Sonata for Flute, Viola, & Harp alone put Debussy into the stratosphere of greats for me.

I'm not trying to bust on Debussy, I'm actually a huge fan of his Le Martyre de Saint Sebastien and Nocturnes.

My avatar now resembles me in this thread!
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: Mirror Image on July 17, 2016, 07:32:13 AM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 17, 2016, 07:06:28 AM
I'm not trying to bust on Debussy, I'm actually a huge fan of his Le Martyre de Saint Sebastien and Nocturnes.

My avatar now resembles me in this thread!

Don't be scared! Come on we don't bite too hard around here. ;D
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on July 17, 2016, 04:10:37 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 17, 2016, 07:32:13 AM
Don't be scared! Come on we don't bite too hard around here. ;D
So....we do bite then?  ::) :o
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: Mirror Image on February 04, 2018, 08:44:05 AM
It seems that I voted correctly according to my own tastes in this poll. Ravel's chamber music, orchestral, song cycles, solo piano music, and operas have long cast their spell on me even when I thought for awhile that I did indeed prefer Debussy. But the reality is Ravel wrote music that I'm simply more attuned to and upon revisitation of the solo piano music, I'm realizing it more and more that while I do hold Debussy in high regard, I can't ignore what my heart and mind tells me.
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: Christo on February 04, 2018, 10:13:26 AM
Quote from: The new erato on July 13, 2016, 11:17:12 PM
Very different composers. I think Debussy is the more remarkable genius, but for actual listening I tend to favor Ravel. So I would vote for both, depending upon what's the real issue here.
#mywords
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on February 04, 2018, 03:17:52 PM
A third option?

https://www.youtube.com/v/KXqX98jdz78

https://www.youtube.com/v/foK8SyPqH54
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on February 04, 2018, 03:19:52 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on February 04, 2018, 08:44:05 AM
It seems that I voted correctly according to my own tastes in this poll. Ravel's chamber music, orchestral, song cycles, solo piano music, and operas have long cast their spell on me even when I thought for awhile that I did indeed prefer Debussy. But the reality is Ravel wrote music that I'm simply more attuned to and upon revisitation of the solo piano music, I'm realizing it more and more that while I do hold Debussy in high regard, I can't ignore what my heart and mind tells me.

If you saw this poll and realised you voted for Debussy back then would you have said that you voted 'incorrectly?' ;D
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: Mirror Image on February 04, 2018, 03:58:06 PM
Quote from: jessop on February 04, 2018, 03:19:52 PM
If you saw this poll and realised you voted for Debussy back then would you have said that you voted 'incorrectly?' ;D

Well sure, because my vote goes to Ravel and thankfully that's who I voted for initially. ;)
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: Cato on February 04, 2018, 04:04:59 PM
Quote from: jessop on February 04, 2018, 03:17:52 PM
A third option?

https://www.youtube.com/v/KXqX98jdz78

https://www.youtube.com/v/foK8SyPqH54

Lili Boulanger was recommended to me via the catalogue of a mail-order company in the 1970's called Records International.  Marvelous works!  And again, like Hans Rott, Ernst Chausson, and too many others, she died much too young!

The record I bought was of this work:

https://www.youtube.com/v/3BQgfSfMG4E
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: Mirror Image on February 04, 2018, 04:07:30 PM
Quote from: jessop on February 04, 2018, 03:17:52 PM
A third option?

https://www.youtube.com/v/KXqX98jdz78

https://www.youtube.com/v/foK8SyPqH54

Quote from: Cato on February 04, 2018, 04:04:59 PM
Lili Boulanger was recommended to me via the catalogue of a mail-order company in the 1970's called Records International.  Marvelous works!  And again, like Hans Rott, Ernst Chausson, and too many others, she died much too young!

The record I bought was of this work:

https://www.youtube.com/v/3BQgfSfMG4E

I've been raving about Boulanger for quite some time even before I joined GMG. Our Cato is correct, she died way too young. What she did leave behind, however, was some absolutely powerful, and gorgeous, works that have edged their way into my heart and I'm sure many others who have had the good fortune of discovering her music.
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: Mirror Image on March 12, 2018, 06:55:16 PM
As I mentioned to Rafael (ritter) in another thread, my mind was initially made up and I picked Ravel. Now, I just don't think I could do it and even if I was to level the playing field and pick just one, I would be doing a grave injustice to both composers and their music. These past few weeks I really have absorbed Debussy's music and explored, for me, some far corners of previously unknown territory (many of the solo piano works and all of the mélodies). To say this exploration didn't push Debussy into the stratosphere for me would be me telling the greatest of all lies. I always knew what a brilliant composer he was, but now I consider him a genius and someone who knew exactly what he was doing. So, to end this rambling, I'm going to have change my vote to the famous Karl option...

(https://i5.walmartimages.ca/images/Enlarge/580/6_r/875806_R.jpg)
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: Crudblud on March 13, 2018, 10:02:20 AM
Apparently I voted for Ravel some time ago. Happy to report my opinion has not changed.
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: aleazk on March 14, 2018, 09:51:29 AM
Some years ago, it was Ravel. Until some months ago, Debussy. But now it's Ravel again.
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: Jo498 on March 14, 2018, 10:45:22 AM
Debussy is probably the greater and more important composer but if I think about which pieces I tend to listen to, it is Ravel, although not by huge margin. I am not really familiar with their operas or mélodies and might slightly prefer the Preludes to most of Ravel's piano music. But Ravel's Trio and the piano concertos (esp. Left Hand) are greater favorites with me than any Debussy chamber or orchestral work.
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: North Star on March 14, 2018, 11:56:25 AM
Quote from: Jo498 on March 14, 2018, 10:45:22 AM
Debussy is probably the greater and more important composer but if I think about which pieces I tend to listen to, it is Ravel, although not by huge margin. I am not really familiar with their operas or mélodies and might slightly prefer the Preludes to most of Ravel's piano music. But Ravel's Trio and the piano concertos (esp. Left Hand) are greater favorites with me than any Debussy chamber or orchestral work.
Ravel's mélodies and operas are some of my favourite parts of his oeuvre, all of them. Debussy's songs and P&M are very good too of course. . .
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: kyjo on March 14, 2018, 02:47:14 PM
Ravel for me! I enjoy a lot of Debussy's music as well, particularly his early-to-mid-period works (his later works are a bit elusive and amorphous to me), but most of his music doesn't thrill me in the way Ravel's does. To me, there's a dark, dangerous edge to Ravel's music beneath all the surface glitter that I don't usually find in Debussy's music, beautiful as it is. Ravel's sophisticated use of orchestration, harmony, and rhythm all appeal to me greatly. There's no denying that Debussy was the more revolutionary and perhaps the greater composer, but I find Ravel's music more multifaceted and exciting. That said, there is one Debussy work I love just as much as my favorite Ravel works, perhaps even more - his String Quartet in G minor. In fact, I prefer it to Ravel's own work in the genre (though not by too much).
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: Sammy on March 14, 2018, 02:55:43 PM
I picked Ravel by a small margin, mainly because of my great affection for his string quartet.  Concerning the solo piano music, I'd give Debussy a slight edge.  I hardly ever listen to their orchestral music, so that didn't figure in my vote.
Title: Re: Debussy vs Ravel
Post by: Mirror Image on March 14, 2018, 07:35:46 PM
Quote from: kyjo on March 14, 2018, 02:47:14 PM
Ravel for me! I enjoy a lot of Debussy's music as well, particularly his early-to-mid-period works (his later works are a bit elusive and amorphous to me), but most of his music doesn't thrill me in the way Ravel's does. To me, there's a dark, dangerous edge to Ravel's music beneath all the surface glitter that I don't usually find in Debussy's music, beautiful as it is. Ravel's sophisticated use of orchestration, harmony, and rhythm all appeal to me greatly. There's no denying that Debussy was the more revolutionary and perhaps the greater composer, but I find Ravel's music more multifaceted and exciting. That said, there is one Debussy work I love just as much as my favorite Ravel works, perhaps even more - his String Quartet in G minor. In fact, I prefer it to Ravel's own work in the genre (though not by too much).

Debussy's Jeux alone is well worth exploring and getting beyond the surface, because it's as dark and dangerous as anything by Ravel. Those late works from Debussy are truly captivating to me as are the late works of composers of so many other composers that I love. Works like the afore mentioned Jeux, but also Trois poèmes de Stéphane Mallarmé and the Sonata for Flute, Viola, and Harp are true masterpieces of their respective genres. It's truly difficult for me to choose between Debussy and Ravel now because I have fallen head-over-hills in love with how visionary Debussy's music truly is and how there's this mystique to his music that keeps me glued to my speakers (or headphones) as I wait in anticipation on where the music is going, but Ravel's music has always meant a lot to me as well.