GMG Classical Music Forum

I couldn't find a thread here (pretty sure there was one on the old GMG).

I just put on a superb aircheck of Thomas Quasthoff singing the Sechs Monologe aus 'Jedermann' (with the Lucerne Festival Orchestra under Claudio Abbado) and was reminded once again what a remarkable song cycle this is, even if the overt emotion in it is somewhat atypical of the composer.

Any other admirers of this composer wanting to share insights or favourite works and recordings?

Quote from: edward on September 01, 2007, 06:56:23 AM
I couldn't find a thread here (pretty sure there was one on the old GMG).

I just put on a superb aircheck of Thomas Quasthoff singing the Sechs Monologe aus 'Jedermann' (with the Lucerne Festival Orchestra under Claudio Abbado) and was reminded once again what a remarkable song cycle this is, even if the overt emotion in it is somewhat atypical of the composer.

Any other admirers of this composer wanting to share insights or favourite works and recordings?

Just when this thread was popping up, I was listening to this:

(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/CDDCA1082.jpg)

A Penguin Rosette at mid-price.

Other Martin CDs I strongly recommend:

(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/CHAN9312.jpg)

(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/CHAN9380.jpg)

(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/HMC901935-36.jpg)

(http://www.orfeo-international.de/covers/16840g.jpg)

My last recommendation, the DG CD with Thierry Fischer of various concertante works, seems to be OOP.

One of my favorite composers!

"In Terra Pax" is my favourite work by Martin since I had it on an old Decca LP coupled with Ansermet's recording of Honegger's "King David", a great double LP from my youth!

Quote from: vandermolen on September 01, 2007, 12:25:21 PM
"In Terra Pax" is my favourite work by Martin since I had it on an old Decca LP coupled with Ansermet's recording of Honegger's "King David", a great double LP from my youth!

Funny that-it was the very same recording of "In Terra Pax" that first alerted me to the genius of Frank Martin!! Since then I have discovered his other great choral works-"Golgotha", "Le Mystere de la Nativite", "Pilate" and the wonderfully beautiful Requiem which deserves to be far better known.

Martin is a composer of great distinction, a serious composer with extremely refined taste and sensitivities who developed his own unique style mostly during the second half of his life. The Violin Concerto is one of the finest of its kind in 20th century music but many of his short orchestral pieces reward study. He is not necessarily a composer whose music seizes the attention on first hearing but the subtle beauty of so many of his works reveal themselves gradually and prove Martin as-in my opinion-the finest Swiss composer and one of the greatest of the last century.

Golgotha and In Terra Pax are great works, and I was tempted to link to them in my first post.

I would dearly love to have recordings of "Le Mystere de la Nativite", "Pilate" and the Requiem - but the records companies aren't exactly queuing up to record them. Recomendatoins for available recordings?

Quote from: erato on September 02, 2007, 12:28:10 AM
Golgotha and In Terra Pax are great works, and I was tempted to link to them in my first post.

I would dearly love to have recordings of "Le Mystere de la Nativite", "Pilate" and the Requiem - but the records companies aren't exactly queuing up to record them. Recomendatoins for available recordings?

The recordings of "Le Mystere de la Nativite" and "Pilate" which I have are in a boxed set on the Swiss label Cascavelle with Ernest Ansermet conducting the Suisse Romande Orchestra. The recordings are of live performances from 1959 and 1966 respectively and both are in mono. Obviously the sound quality is not of the best modern quality but Ansermet was a superb interpreter of Martin's music. There is an alternative version of "Pilate" in another boxed set on the Profil label coupled with "Golgotha" and "In Terra Pax" with the Munich Radio Orchestra conducted by Marcello Viotti and Ulf Schirmer but I have not heard that CD. The version of the Requiem is on the Swiss Jecklin label and is a recording of the 1973 live performance from Lausanne Cathedral in which Martin himself conducted the Suisse Romande. This was the premiere of the work and was recorded only one year before the composer's death. Martin was 83 but the performance radiates the sublime beauty of what is, I believe, one of the finest Requiems composed in the last century.

Neither of the CDs I have in my collection shows up in Amazon but there is apparently a version of the Requiem conducted by Klaus Knall(who he?) on the Musiques Suisse label at $19.98 and the review on Amazon speaks highly of the performance!

Hope that helps.

Great thread. Martin is one of the greatest composers of the century.

To me, his supreme masterpiece is the cycle of songs on Rilke's poems "Der Cornet", one of the most powerful and deeply touching cycle of Lieder I heard since Schubert. Lipovsek and Zagrosek are good, but I prefer the more subtle version of Jard van Nes and De Leeuw.

The cello concerto, from 1965, is another beautiful work.

Golgotha, in the tradition of Honegger's oratorios, with a more popular language, has very strong moments.

Other masterpieces of Frank Martin: Jedermann (with Fischer Dieskau!), the Requiem, the Mass for double choir and the Oratorio In Terra Pax, the 2nd piano concerto.

It is a pity but I never heard Le vin herbé.

Quote from: val on September 03, 2007, 12:08:57 AM


It is a pity but I never heard Le vin herbé.

Easy to rectify - the new Harmonia Mundi recording is sublime and in very good sound.

Another vote for the cello concerto here - it's a real gem. The first movement has a particularly memorable sax solo.

There are some very fine performances of Frank Martin's music (including Sechs Monologe aus Jedermann) on the Concertgebouw Anthology sets.

I have, alas! listened to entirely too little of Martin's music thus far.

The good news, though, is that the BSO are playing his Petite symphonie concertante in February, and I'll be there, with my hair in a braid!

Quote from: Guido on September 03, 2007, 10:57:56 AM
Another vote for the cello concerto here - it's a real gem. The first movement has a particularly memorable sax solo.

A cello concerto, with a saxophone solo?  I think I like it already!  ;)

Quote from: karlhenning on September 05, 2007, 09:31:02 AM
I have, alas! listened to entirely too little of Martin's music thus far.

The good news, though, is that the BSO are playing his Petite symphonie concertante in February, and I'll be there, with my hair in a braid!

That's an excellent way to rectify a lack of Martin: a most appealing work indeed (and IMO more effective in the Petite form than the full-orchestral Symphonie concertante).

Quote from: karlhenning on September 05, 2007, 09:31:43 AM
A cello concerto, with a saxophone solo?  I think I like it already!  ;)

That's another piece waiting on my computer to be listened to (thanks, Guido!). The Brian is over, so I guess I'll move on to the Martin now. :)

Gotta mention the Quatre Pieces Breves for guitar.  Segovia rejected it for being too modern leaving Julian Bream to champion the piece

I have a fondness for Martin's Violin Concerto. Can anyone compare the Cello Concerto to the Violin Concerto?

Quote from: johnQpublic on September 05, 2007, 03:50:58 PM
I have a fondness for Martin's Violin Concerto. Can anyone compare the Cello Concerto to the Violin Concerto?

If you like the Violin Concerto then you should like the Cello Concerto too! It must rank as one of the finest cello concerti of the 20th century yet is far too little known. I would suggest the recent Dutch Etcetera label performance with Quirine Viersen(although there are alternatives from Jean Decross-a live performance from 1970 on Doron-and Stephen Kates on First Edition Music with the Louisville Orchestra-which is the version I possess).

Perhaps the Cello Concerto might not be quite the equal of the Violin Concerto in profoundity of expression but it is certainly not far behind and has a particularly fine Adagietto slow movement. It was written when the composer was 75 but is no quiet ruminative reflection but is a vigorous and quite passionate work. The cello is particularly well-integrated wit the orchestra which includes roles for piano, harp and celesta.

Hope that you like it!

I just listened to Les quatre éléments with Haitink conducting the RCO in a live radio broadcast from 1965. Excellent. Martin certainly has his own style and language.

Agree with everything Dundonnell said. The first movement has a quasi religious tone I've always thouhgt, but no such marking is indicated in the score. Faint ecoes of gospel singing, or something. I'm not sure.

I am yet to hear the violin concerto, but its one my 'to buy' list.

Quote from: Guido on September 07, 2007, 01:45:45 AM
Agree with everything Dundonnell said. The first movement has a quasi religious tone I've always thouhgt, but no such marking is indicated in the score. Faint ecoes of gospel singing, or something. I'm not sure.

I am yet to hear the violin concerto, but its one my 'to buy' list.

There is/was a good double Decca album with the Violin Concerto, In Terra Pax (Ansermet) etc.

Quote from: vandermolen on September 07, 2007, 03:23:05 AM
There is/was a good double Decca album with the Violin Concerto, In Terra Pax (Ansermet) etc.

Great collection. It also has the Petite Symphonie Concertante, Etudes for string orchestra, the Concerto for seven winds, strings and percussion (all under Ansermet) and the string orchestra version of the Passacaglia (under Munchinger). It's pretty much the one-stop shop for seeing if you might like Martin's music, and a necessity for those who like it (Schneiderhan's the excellent soloist in the violin concerto).

I want to mention -again..- two late Martin works :

Polyptique for violin and two small string orchestras ( ca 1973- comm. by Menuhin.) Six fairly short "images"( tot;time ca 25 mins), inspired by a ( Mediaeval? Baroque?) polyptych Martin had seen in Siena. The little wooden tablets depicted the passion of Christ - the last Supper, Judas, Gethsemane,Judgement,Glorification.  I quote Martin's words : This music may perhaps help to bring home to some people the story of Christ's suffering. For others it will simply be a more or less effective sequence of pieces for solo violin and two small string groups.
Martin's late works are serene and almost ascetic, without loss of beautiful lyrical ideas and effusions.

"Et la vie l'emporta" (1974) ,cantata for alto, baritone, small chorus & orchestra (with harp, organ and harpsichord). The texts are by Maurice Zundel ( Supplication : la complainte du malade),Luther ( 4th strophe from Christ lag in Todesbanden) and an anonymous letter from the Italian renaissance - possibly by Fra Angelico: Offrande/Offering.
Both works are marked by the composers old age ,illness and acceptance of death : but the "Spirit" can overcome all things.

THe versions I have are propably OOP. Polyptique on KOch/Schwann - played by Gottfried Schneider/Munich CH.O./Hans Stadlmaier
(cpuopled with Sonata da chiesa and Etudes for strings)
The cantata : on Cascavelle 1014 with Phillippe Huttenlocher, Claudine Perret Lausanne Instr. Ens.and chorus/ Michel Corboz

Quote from: edward on September 07, 2007, 04:50:30 AM
Great collection. It also has the Petite Symphonie Concertante, Etudes for string orchestra, the Concerto for seven winds, strings and percussion (all under Ansermet) and the string orchestra version of the Passacaglia (under Munchinger). It's pretty much the one-stop shop for seeing if you might like Martin's music, and a necessity for those who like it (Schneiderhan's the excellent soloist in the violin concerto).

Here it is, still available at a good price  :)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Frank-Martin-Orchestral-Works/dp/B0000042DI/ref=sr_1_3/203-8357764-4422343?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1189507197&sr=1-3

But, it's on sale at Arkivmusic for $15 (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=6806)

(http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/full/03/31747.jpg)

And this one is also stille available at Arkiv.

Tonu Kaljuste and the Dutch Chamber choir recorded this cantata for Q Disc (97056).

Quote from: karlhenning on September 11, 2007, 03:48:45 AM
But, it's on sale at Arkivmusic for $15 (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=6806)

Yes, but the Amazon site also shows new copies from c £6.50

Petite Symphonie Concertante (harp, piano, harpsicord) I used to think of as the perfect neo-classic/baroque work. It has such an elegant creepiness to it. It is one of those perfect 40s type works...Martin's calling card for sure. One of my all time fav fun pieces.

Had the Violin Cto on ABC (w/Barber,Milhaud), but I don't know if the performance was the best.

I have the Chandos "Ballades" disc. Another perfect album, by turns introspective and amiably dark.

It took me a while to hunt down the String Quartet (1966-67), but it turns out to be one of the most attractive post war SQs I've heard, very noble in the sense of 1940s Hindemith. It's certainly...probably...the most noble SQ of the 60s.

I had the Requiem at one time...it must not have been depressing enough for me.

The Sonata de Chiesa? (org+fl) and Passacaglia (org)...can anyone tell me where I can find modern organ music as nice as this? The fl/org piece I think is the best of its kind.

Like Dutilleux, one can't grumble about Frank Martin (though Martin is by no means as "mysterioso"); one of the most "noble" composers (I seem to like that word concerning Martin).

Try the Petite Symphonie Concertante if you're coming to him cold.

Schneiderhan also recorded the Violin Concerto in good stereo with the composer conducting.  This would be my choice for the VC over the mono with Ansermet (stereo really helps in this work) and the Michael Erxleben recording.  The CD transfer on the Jecklin label was a little harsh, though.  It's worth hunting down the Vox/Candide Lp.

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2005/Oct05/Martin_violin_JD6322.htm

I recently got the Cello Concerto on Bis.  A beautiful work.

Quote from: Daverz on April 29, 2009, 05:44:00 PM
Schneiderhan also recorded the Violin Concerto in good stereo with the composer conducting.  This would be my choice for the VC over the mono with Ansermet (stereo really helps in this work) and the Michael Erxleben recording.  The CD transfer on the Jecklin label was a little harsh, though.  It's worth hunting down the Vox/Candide Lp.

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2005/Oct05/Martin_violin_JD6322.htm

I recently got the Cello Concerto on Bis.  A beautiful work.

Completely agree! It is hard to look past Schneiderhan in a work he very much made his own. His is an aristocratic performance and the Jecklin cd is probably the one to go for. Plus you get the very fine Piano concerto No.2 as the coupling.

Quote from: Dundonnell on April 29, 2009, 05:51:47 PM
Completely agree! It is hard to look past Schneiderhan in a work he very much made his own. His is an aristocratic performance and the Jecklin cd is probably the one to go for. Plus you get the very fine Piano concerto No.2 as the coupling.

Oh, but we really need a new recording.  Seems like just the thing for Hilary Hahn.

It is a source of perpetual astonishment to me that this wonderful concerto-one of the finest 20th century violin concertos- should not have been taken up by a prominent contemporary soloist :(

Hilary...I'm from the area...I know Sarah Angus...

pleeeze record some more out of the way stuff like the Martin, pleeeze? Thanks for the Schoenberg, though.

Discovering "Polyptyque" — Championing Frank Martin (http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=586)

Quote(http://www.weta.org/fmblog/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/frankmartin_geneva_1939.jpg)

Frank Martin (1890-1974) is an unfamiliar composer to the vast majority of concert goers; just unknown enough to be considered one of the hidden and neglected gems among 20th century composers. When Ernest Ansermet foisted the role of traditional modernist—in contrast, indeed opposition, to Schoenberg—onto Martin, his fate among the opinion czars of 20th century classical music was sealed. Martin was declared a reactionary; his music not worth our time. Because the passive discrimination of non-avant-garde music was surprisingly effective, Martin's music languished for years after his death.

The last ten, fifteen years have seen a considerable lessening of ideological elements in judging the quality of music. The very terms "serial" or "post-modern neo-tonal" have become less and less meaningful, and the quality of the works—of whichever type—is rightly becoming the determinant of what we enjoy. That's Frank Martin's chance. His time still hasn't come yet, and it may never. But it should. If so, works like "Polyptyque" will either be the cause, or beneficiary, of that change in perception...

...continued at WETA (http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=586).

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41u9kik63kL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) Frank Martin, Concertos volume 2 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B001IOMWGM/goodmusicguide-20) Polyptyque, Passacaille(1), Cto. pour Clavecin Jac van Steen et al.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41IKOctVwwL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) Frank Martin, "Maria Tryptichon" (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0011DZN6Q/goodmusicguide-20) Polyptyque, Passacaille(2), Poppen et al.

1 = For string orchestra
2 = For full orchestra

I've only recently acquired the EMI Gemini 2 cd set of Martin's orchestral, vocal and instrumental music, and I like it very much. He has become one of my favourite composers.

His style seems to be very eclectic, with atonalism, Neo-Classicism, & Impressionism thrown together to create something new & individual. Despite what some people might think, his music is not mish-mash. He was an excellent craftsman and all of the pieces on the set are first-rate. In fact, I can think of no other composer, except Stravinsky, who experimented with so many different styles.

My favourite work so far is the Petite Symphonie Concertante. It's quite a bold and powerful work, pretty bleak at times, but it does have a fairly upbeat ending. I even hear some jazz in the harpsichord solo!

Martin is definitely a composer who I want to familiarise myself with more. I have enjoyed these two cd's so much. They are superb.

It's also surprising that, given the quality of the conductors who have performed & recorded his music, it is still much underrated. Perhaps part of the reason is because he comes from Switzerland, a country without a long musical tradition?

http://www.amazon.com/Martin-Double-Choir-Polyptique-Ballades/dp/B001O8C5MS/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1253233214&sr=8-11

Is this CD on the UK amazon? I'm just wondering whether I'm just being blind.

Quote from: Guido on September 17, 2009, 04:23:35 PM
http://www.amazon.com/Martin-Double-Choir-Polyptique-Ballades/dp/B001O8C5MS/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1253233214&sr=8-11

Is this CD on the UK amazon? I'm just wondering whether I'm just being blind.

Can't say about blindness or not, but here it is:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001O8C5MS?ie=UTF8&tag=ionarts-21&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=B001O8C5MS (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001O8C5MS?ie=UTF8&tag=ionarts-21&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=B001O8C5MS)

Yes. Just replace .com in the url with .co.uk -- that's how I find misclassified CDs all the time on amazons.

Thanks guys, and thanks for the tip edward - I'll try that in future.

The Petite Symphonie Concertante is my favorite F Martin work too, a most charming work it is.

It is scored for three soloists (piano, harpsichord and harp) and double string (chamber-)orchestra.
Stereo is almost crucial for the reproduction of this work, since the two string orchestras, which are playing antiphonially much of the time, must be placed on each side of the soloists, to reveal the proper nature of the texture in the optimal way. Unfortunately the old otherwise unsurpassed Fricsay recording is mono and so are Martins own recording and Ansermet´s studio recording. My favorite recording is a stereo recording with Paul Sacher conducting the Lausanne chamber orchestra.

Quote from: premont on September 19, 2009, 03:09:17 PM
The Petite Symphonie Concertante . . . is scored for three soloists (piano, harpsichord and harp) and double string (chamber-)orchestra.  Stereo is almost crucial for the reproduction of this work, since the two string orchestras, which are playing antiphonially much of the time, must be placed on each side of the soloists, to reveal the proper nature of the texture in the optimal way. Unfortunately the old otherwise unsurpassed Fricsay recording is mono and so are Martins own recording and Ansermet´s studio recording. My favorite recording is a stereo recording with Paul Sacher conducting the Lausanne chamber orchestra.

Thank you for the highly perceptive and helpful comment regarding the mono versus stereo recordings of the Petite Symphonie!  I will have to pursue a stereo version, as I have the Ansermet recording!

Martin conducted a later recording of the Petite Symphonie Concertante which I'm pretty sure is in stereo:

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Frank-Martin-Kammermusik/hnum/5890841 (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Frank-Martin-Kammermusik/hnum/5890841)

EDIT: review here: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2004/July04/Martin_Martin.htm

There's also a Stokowski recording in stereo (though not very naturally miked) that was issued on an EMI CD.

http://www.amazon.com/Symphony-3-Mathis-Maler-Toch/dp/B00000DCLA (http://www.amazon.com/Symphony-3-Mathis-Maler-Toch/dp/B00000DCLA)

(Ignore the stupid review there.)

Quote from: filipek7 on August 08, 2010, 10:02:39 PM
Thank you for the highly perceptive and helpful comment regarding the mono versus stereo recordings of the Petite Symphonie!  I will have to pursue a stereo version, as I have the Ansermet recording!

Also, note that there is a Bamert recording, which is stereo, but which is a transcription of the piece for soloist and conventional orchestra.

I heard PSC first on a scratchy Ansermet LP, which hightened the creepy effect, and even the cd didn't match that first reaction. Currently I enjoy Wand on RCA, who comes closet in the old-fashioned goodness dept.

I really like Martin's Mass for Double Choir, a work combining influences of early Christian church music and his trademark tonal vagueness. This masterpiece was composed in the 1920's, and the composer saw it purely as a personal offering to god, so it was not publicly performed until the 1950's. I like all the parts of this mass, but the resurrecit has this happy, simple, childlike quality. I would love to see this work live here in Sydney, but it is still a comparatively obscure work...

Quote from: Sid on August 10, 2010, 11:05:39 PM
I really like Martin's Mass for Double Choir, a work combining influences of early Christian church music and his trademark tonal vagueness. This masterpiece was composed in the 1920's, and the composer saw it purely as a personal offering to god, so it was not publicly performed until the 1950's. I like all the parts of this mass, but the resurrecit has this happy, simple, childlike quality. I would love to see this work live here in Sydney, but it is still a comparatively obscure work...

At least it is available on quite a number of recordings, the Requiem OTOH......

I would have loved Chandos to have continued their series with Bamert, I have 3 of the available 4 (IIRC) dics (have played both the symphony and the Ballades disc during the last week), and would gladly buy more if they recorded more of his less recorded stuff (the one disc in the series I don't own, is the one with the PSC).

BUMP!!! :D

Frank Martin isn't a new composer to me, but he was a composer I dismissed a year or so ago for no reason. Anyway, I'm happy to announce that I bought 6 recordings of his music: all of the Bamert discs on Chandos and both volumes of the concertos on the MDG label. Can't wait to dig into this composer's music.

I've been looking at several of his other works and the choral work Golgotha looks quite interesting to me. There are two versions on CD that I'm interested in: one on Harmonia Mundi and the other on Hanssler Classics. Have any of you heard these recordings? Also, have you heard any of the recordings I bought that I mentioned above? Thanks in advance for your help.

Quote from: Daverz on April 29, 2009, 05:44:00 PM
Schneiderhan also recorded the Violin Concerto in good stereo with the composer conducting.  This would be my choice for the VC over the mono with Ansermet (stereo really helps in this work) and the Michael Erxleben recording.  The CD transfer on the Jecklin label was a little harsh, though.  It's worth hunting down the Vox/Candide Lp.

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2005/Oct05/Martin_violin_JD6322.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2005/Oct05/Martin_violin_JD6322.htm)

I should mention that the reason this CD sounded harsh at the time was that my CD player does not do de-emphasis, and this CD has pre-emphasis.  Played back with de-emphasis, it sounds fine.  So highly recommended if you can find a copy.

Quote from: Daverz on November 08, 2010, 01:28:20 PM
I should mention that the reason this CD sounded harsh at the time was that my CD player does not do de-emphasis, and this CD has pre-emphasis.  Played back with de-emphasis, it sounds fine.  So highly recommended if you can find a copy.

Daverz, have you heard the Bamert/Chandos recordings? I was just curious what you think about them. Thanks in advance.

I would actually appreciate anyone who has experience with Martin's music and enjoys his music answer this question: what is the first Martin work you heard that made you become a lifelong fan?

Quote from: Sid on July 20, 2009, 08:41:51 PMIt's also surprising that, given the quality of the conductors who have performed & recorded his music, it is still much underrated. Perhaps part of the reason is because he comes from Switzerland, a country without a long musical tradition?

I'm not sure if his country of birth has much to do with him being underrated. After all, Martin spent a lot of time in the Netherlands. Perhaps had he lived in say Paris, Berlin, or Vienna, he might have become better known? Unfortunately, none of us can turn back time to tell Martin to go live in one of those cities. :D Anyway, I look forward to digesting some of his music over the next few weeks.

Quote from: Mirror Image on November 08, 2010, 06:51:58 PM
I would actually appreciate anyone who has experience with Martin's music and enjoys his music answer this question: what is the first Martin work you heard that made you become a lifelong fan?

Well, I got the EMI Gemini 2 cd set some time last year, and that's what I own of his stuff on cd (it doesn't appear to be on Amazon - yet another thing). Anyway, this set has a good selection of his works. My favourites are the Petite Symphonie Concertante - which marries neo-classicism with atonality - and the Mass for Double Choir - in which he was deeply influenced by ancient Christian church music, combining that with his trademark "vagueness" of tonality. There are also two of the many Ballades on the set, a genre which Martin virtually singlehandedly resurrected after decades of neglect. I also like Yehudi Menuhin's performance of the late work Polyptyque, no wonder it's so good, becuase he was the dedicatee. You could probably find these works on many other recordings, but if you want an inexpensive introduction to a wide variety of his music, this is the set to get as a good starter (the set also includes another choral work, a solo guitar work - the first piece in which he experimented with serialism - and the superb song-cycle Six Monologues from Everyman).

Quote'm not sure if his country of birth has much to do with him being underrated. After all, Martin spent a lot of time in the Netherlands. Perhaps had he lived in say Paris, Berlin, or Vienna, he might have become better known? Unfortunately, none of us can turn back time to tell Martin to go live in one of those cities. :D Anyway, I look forward to digesting some of his music over the next few weeks.

Well, in the interwar period (which were Martin's younger days), Paris was in the grips of neo-classicism and Vienna and Berlin in the throes of the emergence of atonality and serialism. I don't think that his music strictly fit into either camp, it was much like a combination of the two. So it probably wouldn't of mattered where he had decided to live. & later, towards the end of his life, these trends had kind of reached their used-by date anyway, so I can hazard a guess that many people might have seen him as a conservative rather than a progressive. Like the music of the Second Viennese School, Martin's music has a turn of the century feel about it, it's like he stayed exploring directions that came up in the first half of the century rather than the second...

Quote from: Sid on November 08, 2010, 07:43:15 PM
Well, I got the EMI Gemini 2 cd set some time last year, and that's what I own of his stuff on cd (it doesn't appear to be on Amazon - yet another thing). Anyway, this set has a good selection of his works. My favourites are the Petite Symphonie Concertante - which marries neo-classicism with atonality - and the Mass for Double Choir - in which he was deeply influenced by ancient Christian church music, combining that with his trademark "vagueness" of tonality. There are also two of the many Ballades on the set, a genre which Martin virtually singlehandedly resurrected after decades of neglect. I also like Yehudi Menuhin's performance of the late work Polyptyque, no wonder it's so good, becuase he was the dedicatee. You could probably find these works on many other recordings, but if you want an inexpensive introduction to a wide variety of his music, this is the set to get as a good starter (the set also includes another choral work, a solo guitar work - the first piece in which he experimented with serialism - and the superb song-cycle Six Monologues from Everyman).

Well, in the interwar period (which were Martin's younger days), Paris was in the grips of neo-classicism and Vienna and Berlin in the throes of the emergence of atonality and serialism. I don't think that his music strictly fit into either camp, it was much like a combination of the two. So it probably wouldn't of mattered where he had decided to live. & later, towards the end of his life, these trends had kind of reached their used-by date anyway, so I can hazard a guess that many people might have seen him as a conservative rather than a progressive. Like the music of the Second Viennese School, Martin's music has a turn of the century feel about it, it's like he stayed exploring directions that came up in the first half of the century rather than the second...

Thanks for the post and recommendation, Sid. I'll have to track down that 2-CD set on Decca at some point, but I have already bought 6 CDs of Martin's music. You can go the "Latest Purchases" thread to see what I bought if you're at all curious.

I suppose Martin was in the same boat as a composer like Ernst Bloch who is very hard to pindown with a classification. It's interesting that two of my absolute favorite composers were Swiss by birth: Bloch and Honegger. Martin's music sounds like it's right up my alley. I like composers who were influenced by a lot of different kinds of music and tried to combine these influences into something cohesive and original and from what I've heard of Martin's music, thanks to Naxos Music Library, he sounds like one of these composers.

Yes, it's kind of ironic MI that just over a year ago we were arguing about the merits of composers like Frank Martin, Varese & the Second Viennese School and others, and now you've overtaken me in the amount of recordings you've heard of them! I suppose no one could convince you of their merits, you had to convince yourself. This is a thing that occurs to many of us in life generally, so I can understand that. Will your next step be guys of the next generation, like Xenakis, Stockhausen, Boulez, etc? I've began to get into these guys music over the past few months, and it's pretty interesting...

Quote from: Sid on November 08, 2010, 08:10:33 PM
Yes, it's kind of ironic MI that just over a year ago we were arguing about the merits of composers like Frank Martin, Varese & the Second Viennese School and others, and now you've overtaken me in the amount of recordings you've heard of them! I suppose no one could convince you of their merits, you had to convince yourself. This is a thing that occurs to many of us in life generally, so I can understand that. Will your next step be guys of the next generation, like Xenakis, Stockhausen, Boulez, etc? I've began to get into these guys music over the past few months, and it's pretty interesting...

???   ;) :P   8)

Yeah, you know I just had to buy some recordings for myself and listen to the music and quit being so narrow-minded. Apart of this transformation occured when I had bought the Berg VC recording with Mutter/Levine. When I first heard this work, I listened to it 11 times! Now I can go from Vivaldi to Schoenberg to Ligeti to Arvo Part with no problem. I've become much more accepting of music and while I still have got some issues with this newer contemporary avant-garde music, which doesn't seem all that appealing to me right now, I'm hoping, in time, it will be a hurdle I can jump, but right now I'm still absorbing all of this music I dismissed in the past. What a remarkable discovery all of this has been!

Yeah, for me it has always been about developing my perceptions of the music at hand. To get back to Martin, and the piece I briefly mentioned above called Polyptique for violin solo and two string orchestras (if I remember correctly). Initially I found this work very dark and lacking in colour or contrast, but one day I remember putting it on months later & somehow the romantic undertones of the music became apparent. Like a number of Martin's later works, it is based upon a religious subject (Christ's final hours, I think?). But often, with c20th & 21st music, how I react to the music really depends on what mood I am in. Like last night, at a live performance of a Schoenberg piece here at the Con, I felt overwhelmed. How we react to certain types of music possibly depends less on the music and more on how we feel at the time. My reaction to the music of Martin or Schoenberg are cases in point...

Quote from: Mirror Image on November 08, 2010, 06:42:08 PM

Daverz, have you heard the Bamert/Chandos recordings? I was just curious what you think about them. Thanks in advance.

I have 3 of them (Symphony, Ballades and In Terra Pax) and they are great. His oratorios are masterpieces, the Golgatha on HM are very fine but not finer than the older recording on Erato/Warner IIRC. The Le Vin Herbe (on the Trisan & Iseulth myth) on HM is even better IMO. The one essential FM recording for me however is "Der Cornet" on Orfeo, one of my 5 desert Island discs.

Quote from: Mirror Image on November 08, 2010, 06:42:08 PM
Daverz, have you heard the Bamert/Chandos recordings? I was just curious what you think about them. Thanks in advance.

I don't think I have all of them, but the ones I do have are excellent.  The series seems to have petered out and become OOP.

Quote from: erato on November 08, 2010, 10:27:01 PM
I have 3 of them (Symphony, Ballades and In Terra Pax) and they are great. His oratorios are masterpieces, the Golgatha on HM are very fine but not finer than the older recording on Erato/Warner IIRC. The Le Vin Herbe (on the Trisan & Iseulth myth) on HM is even better IMO. The one essential FM recording for me however is "Der Cornet" on Orfeo, one of my 5 desert Island discs.

Sounds like you've spent some time getting to know his music, which is a good thing. He's been a composer that I have put on the backburner for too long. Once I've digested the recordings that I have coming, I will give his oratorios a listen. Thanks for your help.

Quote from: Daverz on November 09, 2010, 01:04:37 AM
I don't think I have all of them, but the ones I do have are excellent.  The series seems to have petered out and become OOP.

Actually, Daverz, there are 4 out of 5 Frank Martin recordings on Chandos that are still in-print. I'm about to go pickup the one that's out-of-print for around $12.

Quote from: Daverz on November 09, 2010, 01:04:37 AM
I don't think I have all of them, but the ones I do have are excellent.  The series seems to have petered out and become OOP.

I have a number of them.  They were good, but I didn't find that they surpassed the old Ansermet recordings (the 2CD Decca set) and the Chailly recordings. 

Quote from: Daverz on August 09, 2010, 01:04:47 PM
Martin conducted a later recording of the Petite Symphonie Concertante which I'm pretty sure is in stereo:

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Frank-Martin-Kammermusik/hnum/5890841 (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Frank-Martin-Kammermusik/hnum/5890841)

No, it is in mono. I am pretty sure, because I own it. IMO Ansermet´s recording is preferable as to performance as well as to recorded sound. They use identical soloists on piano and harpsichord (Doris Rossiaud and Germaine Vaucher-Clerc). But Sacher´s recording (as I wrote above) is in stereo and preferable to both. I have not seen this on CD BTW.

Quote from: Scarpia on November 09, 2010, 08:54:18 AM
I could swear he did, but I can find no reference to it.  Perhaps my memory is playing tricks with me.   :(

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Martin-Ballades-Concerto-Wind-Instruments/dp/B00000IP65

They must have deleted it fast.

(http://www.johnharle.com/media/CD_Video/MartinBallade.jpg)

Quote from: Scarpia on November 09, 2010, 08:54:18 AM
I could swear he did, but I can find no reference to it.  Perhaps my memory is playing tricks with me.   :(

Actually, I just looked it up and he did, but it's so far out-of-print that I had a hard time tracking it down. I couldn't find it on Amazon, which was unusual.

Quote from: Mirror Image on November 09, 2010, 08:57:39 AM

Actually, I just looked it up and he did, but it's so far out-of-print that I had a hard time tracking it down. I couldn't find it on Amazon, which was unusual.

here it is.

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/33/7d/6db2e03ae7a06d2819552210.L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Frank Martin
Concerto for 7 Wind Instruments, Ballades for Saxophone, Piano, Flute, Trumpet.
Chailly, Harle, Brautigam, Zoon, Lindberg
(http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00000IP65?ie=UTF8&tag=goodmusicguide-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00000IP65)

Quote from: jlaurson on November 09, 2010, 09:04:27 AM
here it is.

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/33/7d/6db2e03ae7a06d2819552210.L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Frank Martin
Concerto for 7 Wind Instruments, Ballades for Saxophone, Piano, Flute, Trumpet.
Chailly, Harle, Brautigam, Zoon, Lindberg
(http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00000IP65?ie=UTF8&tag=goodmusicguide-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00000IP65)

Okay cool...wow $75 for a used CD?!?!? That's ridiculous! But I have plenty of rare OOP recordings that worth well over $300.

Quote from: Mirror Image on November 09, 2010, 01:06:23 PM

Okay cool...wow $75 for a used CD?!?!? That's ridiculous! But I have plenty of rare OOP recordings that worth well over $300.

As in the stock market, you can ask anything you want, the market price is defined when someone agrees to pay that price.

This was my introduction to the composer:

http://www.youtube.com/v/5jyK7QJehjQ

In fact, I'm going to go listen to it now.  8)

A nice piece that was transcribed for orchestra.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51bzVCZEAYL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

but it may give the false impression that Martin wrote gloomy music.

Quote from: Scarpia on November 09, 2010, 01:12:09 PM
As in the stock market, you can ask anything you want, the market price is defined when someone agrees to pay that price.

That's true. There are a lot of idiots out there that would actually pay that price. Thankfully, I have more patience than they do. ;)

Quote from: Scarpia on November 09, 2010, 01:12:09 PM
As in the stock market, you can ask anything you want, the market price is defined when someone agrees to pay that price.

I don't think Amazon has listing fees, so it doesn't cost anything to leave stuff listed until (they hope) someone with more money than sense comes along.  At least that's my theory about all the ridiculous prices on Amazon Marketplace. 

But confounding my theory is the fact that many of these listings are by bookstores, which for some reason seem particularly clueless about the going rate for used CDs.

Quote from: Daverz on November 09, 2010, 05:36:16 PM

But confounding my theory is the fact that many of these listings are by bookstores, which for some reason seem particularly clueless about the going rate for used CDs.

Probably because they are accustomed to selling physical product that doesn't compete with virtual downloads. All I can say is that they are in for a surprise.

Let me ask you all a question, why do you think Frank Martin is so neglected? Was he ever popular during his lifetime? If yes, then why do you think that popularity faded?

I have no idea why it happened. He must have been pretty popular as he was selected (by whom I don't remember) to do an oratorium on the end of WWII (Et in Terra Pax).

I suspect that his reputation for 12-tone music "did him in" in conservative circles, while his moderate and very melodic use of it, coupled with his religion, made him totally out of fashion in modernist circles. I find some parallells to another neglected, major composer, Edmund Rubbra.

Quote from: Mirror Image on November 10, 2010, 06:27:14 PM
Let me ask you all a question, why do you think Frank Martin is so neglected? Was he ever popular during his lifetime? If yes, then why do you think that popularity faded?

There is a good chapter on Martin (and his neglect) in Robert R. Reilly's "Surprised by Beauty (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0966059743?ie=UTF8&tag=goodmusicguide-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0966059743)".

Quote from: Mirror Image on November 10, 2010, 06:27:14 PM
Let me ask you all a question, why do you think Frank Martin is so neglected? Was he ever popular during his lifetime? If yes, then why do you think that popularity faded?

1. He didn't write easy music or make any concessions to popular tastes.
2. Like a lot of mid-20th Century composers, he was a victim of musical fashion.
3. He was Swiss.

I'm still hoping that one of our young superstar soloists will take up the Violin Concerto.

Quote from: Daverz on November 11, 2010, 08:01:01 AM

I'm still hoping that one of our young superstar soloists will take up the Violin Concerto.

You are right! I have a recording of that work and it is brilliant!

Quote from: erato on November 10, 2010, 10:15:35 PM
...I suspect that his reputation for 12-tone music "did him in" in conservative circles, while his moderate and very melodic use of it, coupled with his religion, made him totally out of fashion in modernist circles. I find some parallells to another neglected, major composer, Edmund Rubbra.

Yes, he's not conservative enough for the conservatives, and not radical enough for the radicals. Reminds me of how (in his lifetime), Tchaikovsky's music was said to be too Russian by the Europeans and not Russian enough for the Russians. Seems you simply can't win...

Quote from: Daverz on November 11, 2010, 08:01:01 AM
1. He didn't write easy music or make any concessions to popular tastes.
2. Like a lot of mid-20th Century composers, he was a victim of musical fashion.
3. He was Swiss.

I'm still hoping that one of our young superstar soloists will take up the Violin Concerto.

The composers I enjoy the most are the ones who weren't afraid of experimenting with tonality, but at the same time, they kept the music grounded somehow whether it was a system of composition ( i. e. 12-tone) or particular style like Impressionism. I think Martin is one of these composers who wasn't afraid of following his own muse, which I think is wonderful thing. Even though he had little formal training, his music from what I've heard so far, which has only been excerpts from his choral work Golgotha, has a deep religious feeling that gives the music an accessible foundation. I mean people still talk about Schoenberg like he's evil incarnate, but what he did was so innovative and different sounding that people fail to look deeper inside the music and really give it a chance to grown on them.

Holy crap! Hyperion is releasing the complete "Der Sturm" on a 3 CD set in May. Another great thank you to a label that dare go where the former biggies don't dare.

That's great news about DER STURM!

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Hyperion/CDA67821%252F3 (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Hyperion/CDA67821%252F3)

(http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/150dpi/b1792b4f18067fc8/034571178219.png)

Quote from: The new erato on February 28, 2011, 02:01:10 PM
Holy crap! Hyperion is releasing the complete "Der Sturm" on a 3 CD set in May. Another great thank you to a label that dare go where the former biggies don't dare.

Yes it is. As you will see from the previous posting in this thread.....

Quote from: The new erato on February 28, 2011, 02:01:10 PM
Holy crap! Hyperion is releasing the complete "Der Sturm" on a 3 CD set in May. Another great thank you to a label that dare go where the former biggies don't dare.

It finally appeared for pre-order on mdt (and I presume elsewhere).

Here be samples (http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/al.asp?al=CDA67821/3).

Next Friday (22 April) you can hear a live performance of Martin's GOLGOTHA on BBC3  :)

Info here says "Part 1" but I think it will be complete: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01074j8 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01074j8)

More info: http://www.bbc.co.uk/orchestras/events/529  (http://www.bbc.co.uk/orchestras/events/529)

'In Terra Pax' is my favourite work by Martin - I had a fine old Ansermet double LP with Honegger's 'King David' decades ago.

Quote from: vandermolen on April 15, 2011, 04:27:45 AM
'In Terra Pax' is my favourite work by Martin - I had a fine old Ansermet double LP with Honeggr's 'King David' decades ago.

I think that Ansermet recording still stands up very well. It's on the second disc of the Decca/London 2CD set, with the Schneiderhan/Ansermet violin concerto (also one that stands up very well).

I'd like to see a new recording of the String Quartet (to my mind a fine example of 'late' Martin); as far as I know it's currently only available in a performance with the Amati String Quartet on the rather low-profile Divox label. (They may be getting better distribution now, as they've recently joined the Naxos stable.)

[asin]B00005R2J6[/asin]

Quote from: edward on April 15, 2011, 05:18:50 AM
I think that Ansermet recording still stands up very well. It's on the second disc of the Decca/London 2CD set, with the Schneiderhan/Ansermet violin concerto (also one that stands up very well).

Bamert on Chandios is very fine in this,

Quote from: edward on April 15, 2011, 05:18:50 AM


I'd like to see a new recording of the String Quartet (to my mind a fine example of 'late' Martin); as far as I know it's currently only available in a performance with the Amati String Quartet on the rather low-profile Divox label. (They may be getting better distribution now, as they've recently joined the Naxos stable.)

The Divox disc is fine though, I wish however that it was coupled with other Martin stuff,  and agree that it deserves to be taken up by more profiled ensembles.

Quote from: edward on April 15, 2011, 05:18:50 AM
I think that Ansermet recording still stands up very well. It's on the second disc of the Decca/London 2CD set, with the Schneiderhan/Ansermet violin concerto (also one that stands up very well).

I'd like to see a new recording of the String Quartet (to my mind a fine example of 'late' Martin); as far as I know it's currently only available in a performance with the Amati String Quartet on the rather low-profile Divox label. (They may be getting better distribution now, as they've recently joined the Naxos stable.)

[asin]B00005R2J6[/asin]

I have that Divox issue,... but, the older one, which has Martin, Haller, Vogel, and Kelterborn. This particular version of the cd is awesome! The Amati have the HOTTEST second violinist, the yummy Barbara Suter!! :P Oh yea,... the music...

Divox has the habit of re-issuing all their cds.


I really like Martin's SQ. It is the most noble expression of 12tone/Hindemithian restraint, conservative yet compellingly Modern in its synthesis.

Quote from: klingsor on April 15, 2011, 04:01:22 AM
Next Friday (22 April) you can hear a live performance of Martin's GOLGOTHA on BBC3  :)

Info here says "Part 1" but I think it will be complete: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01074j8 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01074j8)

More info: http://www.bbc.co.uk/orchestras/events/529  (http://www.bbc.co.uk/orchestras/events/529)

I don't know if anyone cares, but this performance is available to hear for a few more days. It's beautifully done, soloists and esp chorus are top-notch. And yes, it's complete in 2 parts  :)

If anyone is interested, you can hear (or download) the ENTIRE recording of DER STURM on this site:

http://www.operatoday.com/content/2010/02/martin_der_stur.php (http://www.operatoday.com/content/2010/02/martin_der_stur.php)

Quote from: klingsor on April 30, 2011, 10:26:40 AM
If anyone is interested, you can hear (or download) the ENTIRE recording of DER STURM on this site:

http://www.operatoday.com/content/2010/02/martin_der_stur.php (http://www.operatoday.com/content/2010/02/martin_der_stur.php)

Thanks for the music. Sounds great. Looking forward to listening to the complete opera one day. Love Frank Martin.

The new year's first candidate up for reevaluation... ahhh, Frank Martin! Yes, I was listening to Milhaud's Ballade for Piano & Orchestra, when I thought to pop in that old standby, the 'Ballades' cd from Chandos, a cd which, I presume, has a strange hold on all those who love it! :o

The Piano Ballade (1939) has just the right 'gothic full moon' hazy, humid... 'Wolfman On the Plantation', I dunno, I like it! Anyhow, I went through a few more Ballades when I wondered where to go next?

Of course there's the PSC, but I find it so structured coming off that Chandos disc. So I went a'Amazonin', and after a while came down to only a few works I wanted to hear, works with the same feel as the Ballades as a collective (doh! there's that wooord. :-\).


I'll start with the Violin Concerto. No Review of this piece has made me want to get any issue of it as it stands. I had the ABC cd (w/Milhaud & Barber) a looong time ago, but sold it for some reason. I'm sure I've heard the first of the German's recordings. But I'm hearing human limitation instead of magic. I need Mutter or Tetzlaff or someone transcendent, with backing to boot. So, the VC is a no-go for me right now.

Piano Concertos 1-2: No.2, though nice and Bartokian, is not what I want Martin for. I didn't get to No.1 on YT. Still, I don't think this is where I'm heading.

Harpsichord Concerto: A Virgin Listen right now on YT. WOW!, from the first notes I'm in! I just wish the recording options were greater. I can't believe someone doesn't record a Martinu/Milhaud/Martin/Gerhard disc or something! Anyhow, I like this. I'll continue whilst listening...

Cello Concerto: This was the big find last night. Here is a nice, subdued piece of work, just the way I like my Martin. QUESTION: Are you all for the Haitink/Doron recording? I never got around to The Four Elements.


For some reason, I have NEVER warmed up to the Wind Concerto thing (usually DG), and, I place the String Etudes thing in the same category. I dunno. Also, the Polytych(sic?) I didn't warm to right away (sound like Dutilleux?). And I'm not looking at the vocal works. Those pieces, and the Maria Tryptikon thing seem to be on all kinds of odd labels, from New Albion to ECM to DG.


I was very impressed with the Cello Concerto. I would think this is the way Rubbra sounds.

I'm still being very impressed by the Harpsichord Concerto right now, too. It reminds me a little of Schoenberg's Piano Concerto, in its decaying baroqueness.


Still, I have to think that the Chandos disc 'Ballades' is the Supreme Martin Award for All-Time, no? It's just everything you really want, right there. Then you can pick a PSC from there (I currently abide with Wand and am quite satisfied). Anyhow, I want to hear your Martin stories.

I'm also interested in the String Quintet,... I think I have the Piano Quintet, nicely pre-figuring the 'Ballades'. His Chamber Music is as scattershot as Dutilleux, Ohana, and other odd Modernists. Again I'll lift up the 1965 String Quartet as the Last Masterpiece of Serio/Neo-Classicism (1971). Anyhow...

I'm still trying to understand Martin. A former GMG member raved about his music a good bit. What exactly am I missing? I own the entire Chandos series plus a 2-CD set with Ansermet and the MD&G series of the concerti.

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 29, 2013, 01:31:15 PM
I'm still trying to understand Martin. A former GMG member raved about his music a good bit. What exactly am I missing? I own the entire Chandos series plus a 2-CD set with Ansermet and the MD&G series of the concerti.

I hear you. I stubbornly admire and respect his music, but I love little of it. Certainly Polyptique, though! http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2009/02/ionarts-at-large-mozarts-requiem-with.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2009/02/ionarts-at-large-mozarts-requiem-with.html)
Listening to Der Sturm right now, which is very nice. Double Mass and Four Short Pieces for Guitar live, two nights ago... that was more of the appreciation-not-love thing.

Thanks for the feedback, Jens. Another composer I'm having a hard time grasping is Frank Bridge, but Martin and Bridge are going to be two projects I'm interesting in starting soon. I hope I find something of theirs that I enjoy.

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 29, 2013, 01:50:43 PM
Thanks for the feedback, Jens. Another composer I'm having a hard time grasping is Frank Bridge, but Martin and Bridge are going to be two projects I'm interesting in starting soon. I hope I find something of theirs that I enjoy.

Bridge I find easier to enjoy, if perhaps less satisfying down the road. I recommend his early chamber music... specifically the Sextet and the Quintet:
The Best Recordings in 2004
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2004/12/best-recordings-in-2004.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2004/12/best-recordings-in-2004.html)

Quote from: jlaurson on January 29, 2013, 02:50:50 PM
Bridge I find easier to enjoy, if perhaps less satisfying down the road. I recommend his early chamber music... specifically the Sextet and the Quintet:
The Best Recordings in 2004
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2004/12/best-recordings-in-2004.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2004/12/best-recordings-in-2004.html)

Thanks, Jens. I'm pretty turned-off by Bridge right now, but I'll keep these recommendations in mind.

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 29, 2013, 01:50:43 PM
Thanks for the feedback, Jens. Another composer I'm having a hard time grasping is Frank Bridge, but Martin and Bridge are going to be two projects I'm interesting in starting soon. I hope I find something of theirs that I enjoy.

Bridge is like Delius ... but with cojones.

Quote from: DavidRoss on January 29, 2013, 03:40:09 PM
Bridge is like Delius ... but with cojones.

Ummm...no. I disagree. The only commonality they share, in my opinion, is that both were raised in England.

Quote from: DavidRoss on January 29, 2013, 03:40:09 PM
Bridge is like Delius ... but with cojones.

I tend to agree. At least I find similarities but with more personality in Bridge.

And for the Martin violin concerto, snyprrr needs Schneiderhan.

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 29, 2013, 01:31:15 PM
I'm still trying to understand Martin. A former GMG member raved about his music a good bit. What exactly am I missing? I own the entire Chandos series plus a 2-CD set with Ansermet and the MD&G series of the concerti.

Just stick with the 'Ballades' cd for now. Martin is Swiss: monochrome. Like misty, drizzly Paris days,... pale moonscapes... Wan Impressionism...

And the PSC is fun, of course!, like Martinu.

I think you've already overdosed and poisoned the well, maybe. Sometimes I get the feeling you're 'throwing money' in certain directions, trying to get to the bottom of things, but I fear you end up disappointed more often than not? I'm just waaay too stingy to part with the ducets without THOROUGH research.

Like with Bridge. Take my advice and just stick with the Cello Sonata and the Piano Trio No.2 for now I wouldn't be trying to 'crack THAT nut',... Bridge IS a tough nut to crack, especially the Late Works. The more effort you put in the less reward you will get. Listen, Grasshopper, a be wise!! If you like his Light String Music, fine...

Some Composers will certainly just disappoint if you have found their ONE Masterpiece, and you go down the rabbit hole seeking more more more. :'( I ALWAYS defer to others' reviews and wisdom, and make diligent inquiry, first.

Lately... not so much! :P ;D

Der Cornet is my favorite Martin work.

Quote from: snyprrr on January 30, 2013, 04:52:49 AM
Just stick with the 'Ballades' cd for now. Martin is Swiss: monochrome. Like misty, drizzly Paris days,... pale moonscapes... Wan Impressionism...

And the PSC is fun, of course!, like Martinu.

I think you've already overdosed and poisoned the well, maybe. Sometimes I get the feeling you're 'throwing money' in certain directions, trying to get to the bottom of things, but I fear you end up disappointed more often than not? I'm just waaay too stingy to part with the ducets without THOROUGH research.

Like with Bridge. Take my advice and just stick with the Cello Sonata and the Piano Trio No.2 for now I wouldn't be trying to 'crack THAT nut',... Bridge IS a tough nut to crack, especially the Late Works. The more effort you put in the less reward you will get. Listen, Grasshopper, a be wise!! If you like his Light String Music, fine...

Some Composers will certainly just disappoint if you have found their ONE Masterpiece, and you go down the rabbit hole seeking more more more. :'( I ALWAYS defer to others' reviews and wisdom, and make diligent inquiry, first.

Lately... not so much! :P ;D

I suppose I'm just a different kind of listener. I inspect/study works, listen to them, if I can't find any access points, I move onto something else. For me, music, above everything else involved, is about making a human connection. My problem is I'm not finding any evidence of a human being in Martin's work so, therefore, I can't make a connection, but I'm going to try to keep listening with an open-mind. I'm sure I'll find something I enjoy in his oeuvre.

I don't expect music to be 'easy' let's just get that out of the way. I do, however, expect to get some kind of enjoyment from it whether it be a beautiful chord progression that sends me running downstairs to the guitar to pick out that progression somehow from memory, from a melody that finds it's way into my mind days after hearing it or a little motif that's repeated in a series of variations, among other things. All of this said, I want to get something from the music.

As far as throwing money at recordings of unknown repertoire and composers, how else am I going to get to know any composer's music? It's not like I pick random composers to bank on. No, I learn about different composers by reading about them first and then buying some of their recordings. I have been disappointed, sure, but that's the risk you take when exploring new music. I'd rather have taken a risk than to sit comfortably while I listen to the same composers over and over again.

Anyway, all of this is just my own perspective.

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 30, 2013, 11:37:11 AM

As far as throwing money at recordings of unknown repertoire and composers, how else am I going to get to know any composer's music? It's not like I pick random composers to bank on. No, I learn about different composers by reading about them first and then buying some of their recordings. I have been disappointed, sure, but that's the risk you take when exploring new music. I'd rather have taken a risk than to sit comfortably while I listen to the same composers over and over again.

Anyway, all of this is just my own perspective.

And it's a beautiful, heartening, necessary attitude and perspective to have! Makes me smile. Wish more concert audience members (or classical music listeners generally) were like that.

Quote from: The new erato on January 30, 2013, 05:23:26 AM
Der Cornet is my favorite Martin work.

Ditto!

Quote from: jlaurson on January 30, 2013, 11:41:15 AM
And it's a beautiful, heartening, necessary attitude and perspective to have! Makes me smile. Wish more concert audience members (or classical music listeners generally) were like that.

Thanks, Jens. I wish more people had this attitude as well.

My introduction the Martin was, of course, the Petite Symphonie Concertante.  But what really got me into Martin was the Violin Concerto.  I remember making a cassette of the Schneiderhan/Ansermet and listening to it over and over in the car until it started to sink in.  Stereo really helps in this work, though, and Schneiderhan recording on Jecklin with the composer conducting recording is the one to get, if you can find it.

Quote from: Daverz on January 30, 2013, 03:03:08 PM
My introduction the Martin was, of course, the Petite Symphonie Concertante.  But what really got me into Martin was the Violin Concerto.  I remember making a cassette of the Schneiderhan/Ansermet and listening to it over and over in the car until it started to sink in.  Stereo really helps in this work, though, and Schneiderhan recording on Jecklin with the composer conducting recording is the one to get, if you can find it.

Coincidently, I was listening to the Violin Concerto the other night. It just all washed over me and nothing stuck out. It just seemed like endless rambling on and on, but people probably think the same thing about Delius. ;) :D But, no matter, I'll listen to it again this time that Ansermet recording. The version I heard was on the MD&G label. I forget who the soloist and conductor were.

Quote from: Daverz on January 30, 2013, 03:03:08 PM
My introduction the Martin was, of course, the Petite Symphonie Concertante.  But what really got me into Martin was the Violin Concerto.  I remember making a cassette of the Schneiderhan/Ansermet and listening to it over and over in the car until it started to sink in.  Stereo really helps in this work, though, and Schneiderhan recording on Jecklin with the composer conducting recording is the one to get, if you can find it.

But don't you think the VC NEEDS a splendiforous 'super nails it' reading? I really should have kept the ABC.

Quote from: snyprrr on January 30, 2013, 06:42:25 PM
But don't you think the VC NEEDS a splendiforous 'super nails it' reading? I really should have kept the ABC.

Schneiderhan already made that recording. :)

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 30, 2013, 03:30:22 PM
Coincidently, I was listening to the Violin Concerto the other night. It just all washed over me and nothing stuck out. It just seemed like endless rambling on and on, but people probably think the same thing about Delius. ;) :D But, no matter, I'll listen to it again this time that Ansermet recording. The version I heard was on the MD&G label. I forget who the soloist and conductor were.

The one on MDG is rather tepid.

Forgot I wrote a review of the Schneiderhan/Martin at Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Frank-Martin-Violin-Concerto-Piano/dp/B000009IE7/

Quote from: Daverz on January 31, 2013, 08:53:52 AM
The one on MDG is rather tepid.

Forgot I wrote a review of the Schneiderhan/Martin at Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Frank-Martin-Violin-Concerto-Piano/dp/B000009IE7/

Quote from: edward on January 31, 2013, 06:02:09 AM
Schneiderhan already made that recording. :)

Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOL7o5d7JE0


Neither of you have heard the ABC (W/ Milhaud & Barber)?

OK, well, the Jecklin disc is of course not in my $$$ range at the moment. I did read that the MDG is tepid.

Maybe I'll have to spend some time here...

btw- I just KNOW that only 1% of you have heard the SQ (only on Divox). It really is Hindemith's SQ No.5 (the FIRST one in Eb, the 'smoothest' one) refined to the nth degree. Noble, stately, slightly oriental... written in 1965, I do consider the Last Word in Neo-Classicism,... everyone else was pretty much dead by then...

I have the disc. Your description i spot on. Very fine.

Quote from: Daverz on January 31, 2013, 08:53:52 AM
The one on MDG is rather tepid.

I don't know if it's the work itself or the performance, but neither one of them impressed me much.

This reminds me that even with say Britten's VC, the worst performance I've heard, which would be Jensen/Jarvi, I still felt the music. For me, it has something to say. I don't feel the Martin VC has anything to say but sure does go on and on for no good reason.

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 31, 2013, 10:48:44 AM
This reminds me that even with say Britten's VC, the worst performance I've heard, which would be Jensen/Jarvi, I still felt the music. For me, it has something to say. I don't feel the Martin VC has anything to say but sure does go on and on for no good reason.

I can't see the Britten concerto as at all a useful comparison to the Martin concerto.

Quote from: Daverz on January 31, 2013, 11:46:48 AM
I can't see the Britten concerto as at all a useful comparison to the Martin concerto.

I'm not comparing them. They are two different works, but my point is one I connect with and the other doesn't do anything for me.

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 31, 2013, 11:58:51 AM
I'm not comparing them. They are two different works, but my point is one I connect with and the other doesn't do anything for me, because I feel the music has something to say.

This does not tell us much about the music.

But googling around I did discover that there's a Wanda Wilkomirska recording of the Britten concerto!

http://www.occds.org/cd/cd012.html

Quote from: Daverz on January 31, 2013, 12:17:02 PM
This does not tell us much about the music.

I'm not trying to describe the music or explain the differences between the two works. Like I said, I'm not comparing anything. Where are you getting this? I'm just stating, rather passively, that I don't find anything about the Martin VC that stimulates my mind or heart. In other words, it's a useless work to me.

Anyway, I'll check out that Ballades recording with Bamert I own though and will be sure to give a fresh listen.

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 31, 2013, 01:01:19 PMI'm just stating, rather passively, that I don't find anything about the Martin VC that stimulates my mind or heart. In other words, it's a useless work to me.

What happened to that good attitude from earlier... about trying and trying again. All you are really saying is that you've not found the work to (potentially) withstand a mediocre performance (whereas Britten, for you, does). That's not to say that the Martin concerto might not end up a dud to your ears even in the best of performances, but it's too early to call, I'd reckon.

Quote from: jlaurson on January 31, 2013, 01:09:46 PM
What happened to that good attitude from earlier... about trying and trying again. All you are really saying is that you've not found the work to (potentially) withstand a mediocre performance (whereas Britten, for you, does). That's not to say that the Martin concerto might not end up a dud to your ears even in the best of performances, but it's too early to call, I'd reckon.

I've heard Martin's VC at least 11 or 12 times. Each time I got nothing from it. So, I would say at this juncture it's safe to say that this work isn't for me, but I didn't close off the possibility of finding a Martin work that does do it for me.

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 31, 2013, 01:01:19 PM
I'm not trying to describe the music or explain the differences between the two works. Like I said, I'm not comparing anything. Where are you getting this? I'm just stating, rather passively, that I don't find anything about the Martin VC that stimulates my mind or heart.

That kind of observation is fine in a thread like "What are you listening to."  I've posted there about my travails with Carter's orchestral music.  But I wouldn't think of posting about that in a thread devoted to Carter.  What would be the point?

Quote from: Daverz on January 31, 2013, 01:52:08 PM
That kind of observation is fine in a thread like "What are you listening to."  I've posted there about my travails with Carter's orchestral music.  But I wouldn't think of posting about that in a thread devoted to Carter.  What would be the point?

This thread is about Frank Martin. I came here to just give an observation. I didn't know it would turn into WWIII. ::)

What's everybody's opinion of Golgotha? I've heard this described as one of Frank Martin's best works.

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 31, 2013, 01:41:57 PM
I've heard Martin's VC at least 11 or 12 times.

11 or 12 times?!  What possessed you to do that?  I can quite imagine wearing out a piece that I just was not connecting to by listening to it that many times, especially if the performances were not very engaging.  When that happens, it's best just to put the music aside, perhaps even for several years.

Quote from: Daverz on January 31, 2013, 02:12:43 PM
11 or 12 times?!  What possessed you to do that?  I can quite imagine wearing out a piece that I just was not connecting to by listening to it that many times, especially if the performances were not very engaging.  When that happens, it's best just to put the music aside, perhaps even for several years.

This was over a period of 2 years, Daverz. I listened to both the Ansermet and MD&G recordings. I didn't listen to this work over and over again. No, that definitely wouldn't have been a good idea.

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 31, 2013, 01:56:17 PM
This thread is about Frank Martin. I came here to just give an observation. I didn't know it would turn into WWIII. ::)

But you don't have anything to say about Frank Martin.  You've only talked about...Mirror Image.  What an appropriate handle.

Quote from: Daverz on January 31, 2013, 02:16:10 PM
But you don't have anything to say about Frank Martin.  You've only talked about...Mirror Image.  What an appropriate handle.

So I didn't mention Frank Martin or talk about him when I said:

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 29, 2013, 01:31:15 PM
I'm still trying to understand Martin. A former GMG member raved about his music a good bit. What exactly am I missing? I own the entire Chandos series plus a 2-CD set with Ansermet and the MD&G series of the concerti.

And yet nobody has told me what I'm missing in Martin's music, so this question remains open. What is it about his music that keeps you coming back?

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 31, 2013, 02:25:28 PM
And yet nobody has told me what I'm missing in Martin's music, so this question remains open. What is it about his music that keeps you coming back?

If you can wait half a year or a year, I'm working on a book (http://www.forbes.com/sites/laursonpieler/2013/01/27/david-camerons-initiative-may-strenghten-the-eu-for-questioning-it/) (editing and humbly co-authoring a vastly expanded second edition) that will attempt to answer precisely that question. (With one of its chapters, at least.)

Quote from: jlaurson on January 31, 2013, 02:28:06 PM
If you can wait half a year or a year, I'm working on a book (http://www.forbes.com/sites/laursonpieler/2013/01/27/david-camerons-initiative-may-strenghten-the-eu-for-questioning-it/) (editing and humbly co-authoring a vastly expanded second edition) that will attempt to answer precisely that question. (With one of its chapters, at least.)

I thought you didn't care much for Martin's music, Jens? I find it curious to be working a book about a composer that you don't show much affinity for. That would be like myself writing a book on Boulez.

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 31, 2013, 02:33:07 PM
I thought you didn't care much for Martin's music, Jens? I find it curious to be working a book about a composer that you don't show much affinity for. That would be like myself writing a book on Boulez.

Firstly I have a very considerable affinity for Martin's music. I just struggle on occasion getting there. (And the Mass for Double Choir is something I appreciate more than I love.) Tryptichon, Polyptique, Cto. for Harpsichord, Requiem, Der Sturm... those, I think, are great works. The conciseness of Martin, the earnesty [sic]...  Secondly, it's not just about Martin (he's got a chapter), and thirdly that's not the chapter I'm penning.

Quote from: jlaurson on January 31, 2013, 02:41:39 PM
Firstly I have a very considerable affinity for Martin's music. I just struggle on occasion getting there. (And the Mass for Double Choir is something I appreciate more than I love.) Tryptichon, Polyptique, Cto. for Harpsichord, Requiem, Der Sturm... those, I think, are great works. The conciseness of Martin, the earnesty [sic]...  Secondly, it's not just about Martin (he's got a chapter), and thirdly that's not the chapter I'm penning.

Okay, Jens. :)

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 31, 2013, 01:56:17 PM
I didn't know it would turn into WWIII. ::)

We're right, you're wrong! :P See, war over!! ;D 8)

I would definitely say that problem 'A' is that MDG.

When I first heard the VC (on that Australian label, the performance NO ONE but me is talking about (I don't remember the performance)) I came to it after reading about how it was the Secret Masterpiece VC of the 20th Century. And I believe I've heard the Decca also. And I've recently just sampled the 'definitive' Jecklin version on YouTube.

Why don't you first compare your MDG with the 'definitive' one (the fans' phrase) on YT? I thought it might need the DG sound treatment (I've never expect sound quality from Jecklin (my problem)),... but,... for all the 'luminescence' that this score is supposed to have, it would seem that it NEEDS an ultra modern recording?

When I was sampling the other day, the Cello Concerto was the work that pricked up my ears. When I listened to the VC, I thought it needed a better overall presentation (I know, I'm being a dick). I'd like to know what you think of the Cello Concerto (the YT is serviceable).

If you want to compare, perhaps compare Martin to Pijper? Masters of Grey,... if you don't like grey?...

I'm gonna go try this VC on YT again... 'colors' 'bright'

Just listened to the 'definitive' YT recording, Composer conducting.

Well, it's a sound quality issue for me, and it's not YT. I think, in its best light, this VC SHOULD come off 'sounding' (Notice quotes) like the classic, creamy Mutter version of the Berg. Do ya hear me here?

And Mr. Schn. on violin,... definitive or not, wouldn't someone like Mutter (or whoever you know) just make buttah out of this, with some creamy orchestra with sumptuous conducting? In the YT, the violin is just not 'magically' situated, robbing the whole piece of much nuance. The orchestra is just that one notch too distant also. And, surely someone other the Composer himself might take the music that one notch more relaxed?

Can't ya hear it? ???

The sound hitting my ears was not so impressive, but my perfect mental image of what it COULD sound like was enough for me. I think it IS a Big Piece that really just needs absolute perfection in every area (including sound).

Quote from: snyprrr on February 01, 2013, 11:05:14 AM
Just listened to the 'definitive' YT recording, Composer conducting.

Well, it's a sound quality issue for me, and it's not YT. I think, in its best light, this VC SHOULD come off 'sounding' (Notice quotes) like the classic, creamy Mutter version of the Berg. Do ya hear me here?

And Mr. Schn. on violin,... definitive or not, wouldn't someone like Mutter (or whoever you know) just make buttah out of this, with some creamy orchestra with sumptuous conducting? In the YT, the violin is just not 'magically' situated, robbing the whole piece of much nuance. The orchestra is just that one notch too distant also. And, surely someone other the Composer himself might take the music that one notch more relaxed?

Can't ya hear it? ???

The sound hitting my ears was not so impressive, but my perfect mental image of what it COULD sound like was enough for me. I think it IS a Big Piece that really just needs absolute perfection in every area (including sound).

I wouldn't judge a recording by whatever sludge Youtube makes of it.

The work certainly deserves to be recorded more often.  However, I think smoothing over ala Anne-Sophie Mutter is the last thing the piece needs.  I'm hoping for a James Ehnes recording.

Quote from: Daverz on February 05, 2013, 07:09:01 PM
I wouldn't judge a recording by whatever sludge Youtube makes of it.

The work certainly deserves to be recorded more often.  However, I think smoothing over ala Anne-Sophie Mutter is the last thing the piece needs.  I'm hoping for a James Ehnes recording.

That's fine. I just need some major engineers,... hey, if the Jecklin 'sound' was 'definitive', I'd have no real problem with that version. Still, and I'm surely talking out of my rear, but I just didn't care for Sch./violinist's playing, or something. But, the 'airy' recording is my main problem.

Why Chandos couldn't have done for it what it did for Norgard's VC,...???? :blank: :blank:

For those who like Martin's music and happen to be in Amsterdam...On March 22nd and march 24th.
vhttp://www.concertgebouworkest.nl/nl/concerten/Programma/Golgotha-van-Frank-Martin/


Stéphane Denève
Dirigent
Susan Gritton
Sopraan
Kate Aldrich
Sopraan
Yann Beuron
Tenor
Laurent Naouri
Bariton
Vincent Le Texier
Bariton

Groot Omroepkoor

Het Concertgebouworkest

Standaard 
Rang 4  € 22.50 
Rang 3  € 36.00 
Rang 2  € 45.00 
Rang 1  € 60.80 
Rang 1+  € 85.50 


Golgotha

Frank Martin Niet Bach maar Frank Martin staat centraal in het weekend voor Pasen. In 2009 gaf het KCO een nieuwe impuls aan de passietraditie met een moderne passie van James MacMillan. Dit seizoen wordt de vernieuwing voortgezet met Martins Golgotha. Een KCO-première met een Nederlands tintje; Martin was Zwitser, maar verhuisde in 1946 naar Nederland en voltooide hier zijn passieoratorium.

Voor Golgotha liet hij zich inspireren door zijn grote voorbeeld Bach en de tekening 'De drie kruizen' van Rembrandt. Toch stond hij tegelijkertijd met beide benen in het heden. De cast is volledig nieuw: de dirigent en ook de solisten maken allemaal hun debuut bij het orkest. Maar voor de grote koorpartij tekent het vertrouwde Groot Omroepkoor.

Quote from: snyprrr on February 05, 2013, 07:23:19 PM
Still, and I'm surely talking out of my rear,

Quote from: snyprrr on February 05, 2013, 07:23:19 PM
But, the 'airy' recording is my main problem.

This seems wonderfully appropriate.

Quote from: The new erato on February 07, 2013, 03:26:44 AM
This seems wonderfully appropriate.

Boy, you DO pick up on things, haha!! ::)

Quote from: pjme on February 07, 2013, 03:13:54 AM
For those who like Martin's music and happen to be in Amsterdam...On March 22nd and march 24th.
vhttp://www.concertgebouworkest.nl/nl/concerten/Programma/Golgotha-van-Frank-Martin/

My friend and I just bought tickets to this last night. Can't wait! :)

I won't be able to get there! Alas...

Golgotha is a wonderful and moving score. Excellent choice ..and a good thing for the Concertgebouw orchestra. They really should do Martin's Symphony again! Haitink did perform this exciting score ( two piano's in the orchestra) several years ago.

I'll be at the Concertgebouw for K.A.Hartmann's 8th symphony ( + Bruckner 9) on March 30th.
Peter

I just got the Baiba Skride recording of the Violin Concerto and have listened to it several times now.  I'm a bit disappointed by how timid the orchestra seems to be.   Skride seems to play warmly.

[asin]B0080EG7JQ[/asin]

I also completely forgot that I had the old Louisville recording (Paul Kling, violin; Robert Whitney conducting).  Overall, I like this one a lot.  The sonics are congested and compressed, but still enjoyable, and the orchestra plays with character and color.  I also need to re-evaluate the Erxleben recording.

[asin]B0001BKAFI[/asin]

Quote from: Daverz on March 01, 2013, 05:23:05 PM
I just got the Baiba Skride recording of the Violin Concerto and have listened to it several times now.  I'm a bit disappointed by how timid the orchestra seems to be.   Skride seems to play warmly.

[asin]B0080EG7JQ[/asin]

I also completely forgot that I had the old Louisville recording (Paul Kling, violin; Robert Whitney conducting).  Overall, I like this one a lot.  The sonics are congested and compressed, but still enjoyable, and the orchestra plays with character and color.  I also need to re-evaluate the Erxleben recording.

[asin]B0001BKAFI[/asin]

I had a chance to get that ABC disc with Martin, Milhaud, & Barber VCs... have you heard that one yet?

Quote from: snyprrr on March 02, 2013, 07:16:02 AM
I had a chance to get that ABC disc with Martin, Milhaud, & Barber VCs... have you heard that one yet?

That is the one I have. Nice disc, but since I have nothing for comparative listening for the Milhaud and Martin, I can't say more than that.

There's a new disc with Martin's Cinderella on it (I've never heard of the work). Check my latest post in the Recordings you are considering thread.

Quote from: pjme on February 10, 2013, 12:46:18 PM
I won't be able to get there! Alas...

Golgotha is a wonderful and moving score. Excellent choice ..and a good thing for the Concertgebouw orchestra. They really should do Martin's Symphony again! Haitink did perform this exciting score ( two piano's in the orchestra) several years ago.

I'll be at the Concertgebouw for K.A.Hartmann's 8th symphony ( + Bruckner 9) on March 30th.
Peter

I have been considering Golgotha...

Quote from: snyprrr on March 02, 2013, 07:16:02 AM
I had a chance to get that ABC disc with Martin, Milhaud, & Barber VCs... have you heard that one yet?

No, this is one of the 2 recordings that I don't have yet:

[asin]B000000R4A[/asin]

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51rkX5sI-qL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Are there any others?

EDIT: there was a Szigeti recording from 1952 available on Music & Arts.

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/56/f2/0013a2c008a0b6602e769010.L.jpg)

Quote from: Daverz on March 02, 2013, 08:20:35 AM
No, this is one of the 2 recordings that I don't have yet:

Are there any others?

on vinyl: Candide 36 006   Schneiderhan, Wolfgang violin  Martin, Frank, cond.   Luxembourg Radio S.O,

Quote from: listener on March 02, 2013, 12:16:43 PM
on vinyl: Candide 36 006   Schneiderhan, Wolfgang violin  Martin, Frank, cond.   Luxembourg Radio S.O,

Yeah, I have this one (2 copies!) as well as the CD issue.  As I said earlier, this is my standard for the work.

http://www.amazon.com/Frank-Martin-Violin-Concerto-Piano/dp/B000009IE7

Orchestral reticence or not (bothers me only in the Honegger, actually), Baiba Skride certainly adds considerably to the discography of that concerto.
I don't have Martin-Schneiderhan, only Ansermet?-Schneiderhan, but that's not that hot. The standout, which surprised me, after hearing a good deal of negative comments about it, is the MDG recording, which is a very hot tamale!

Quote from: jlaurson on March 02, 2013, 04:55:56 PM
Orchestral reticence or not (bothers me only in the Honegger, actually), Baiba Skride certainly adds considerably to the discography of that concerto.
I don't have Martin-Schneiderhan, only Ansermet?-Schneiderhan, but that's not that hot. The standout, which surprised me, after hearing a good deal of negative comments about it, is the MDG recording, which is a very hot tamale!

The orchestra and sonics on MDG are excellent -- no timidity or recessed balances here -- but the soloist is rather aloof. 

OK, after listening to the MDG -- which really has not much more going for it than smooth digital sound -- I listened to Skride again -- plodding and timid -- and then Schneiderhan/Martin.  There's no contest: neither of those performances come close to the passion and commitment of Schneiderhan/Martin. 

I may have found my "key" into Martin's musical universe with his Cello Concerto (1966). A MusicWeb reviewer on the Christian Poltera recording said that he couldn't get into this concerto and I honestly don't see how anyone couldn't, especially if you've been exposed to a lot of the currents that flowed from 20th Century music. It's an ingenious mixture of Neoclassicism, Schoenbergian mystique, and contains whispers of hymn-like quietude as if it were written in a dying breath. Highly recommended. I'm sure the work has been discussed on this thread, but I would just to give this concerti a thumbs up. :)

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 06, 2013, 07:22:06 PM
I may have found my "key" into Martin's musical universe with his Cello Concerto (1966). A MusicWeb reviewer on the Christian Poltera recording said that he couldn't get into this concerto and I honestly don't see how anyone couldn't, especially if you've been exposed to a lot of the currents that flowed from 20th Century music. It's an ingenious mixture of Neoclassicism, Schoenbergian mystique, and contains whispers of hymn-like quietude as if it were written in a dying breath. Highly recommended. I'm sure the work has been discussed on this thread, but I would just to give this concerti a thumbs up. :)

It was the one new work I discovered that I liked as much as the Martin I do like. Watch out, though... like I said, it was the ONLY of his later works which I responded to. It has a completely different feel than a lot of Martin. You might like Ohana too.

I'm treading carefully with Martin, synprrr, so don't worry. :) I think the MD&G recording of the Violin Concerto just turned me off completely, but I plan to revisit my Bamert recordings on Chandos. I remember really enjoying that Ballades recording. I've just got so much on my plate right now though. Some much music, so little time.

In other news, I bought this recently:

[asin]B000AMMSRQ[/asin]

The only work I'm familiar with in this box set is In Terra Pax (a beautiful work), so I'm looking forward to hearing the much-discussed, and recorded, Golgotha. The work Pilate should be an interesting listen as well.

Anyone here own and have heard these performances from this set?

In Terra Pax is my favourite work by Martin. I recently bought the fine old Ansermet recording which has been reissued by Decca in a set mainly devoted to Honegger.
[asin]B0075480RY[/asin]

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 06, 2013, 08:23:31 PM
I remember really enjoying that Ballades recording.

Single best Martin disc ever! ever ever ever

The definition of 'wan moonlight'

Quote from: vandermolen on April 07, 2013, 01:04:33 AM
In Terra Pax is my favourite work by Martin. I recently bought the fine old Ansermet recording which has been reissued by Decca in a set mainly devoted to Honegger.
[asin]B0075480RY[/asin]

I bought this set too. I'll have to dig it out and listen to the In Terra Pax performance. I remember Bamert's being quite good.

Quote from: snyprrr on April 07, 2013, 05:43:37 AM
Single best Martin disc ever! ever ever ever

The definition of 'wan moonlight'

I agree that it is quite beautiful recording and the works are quite alluring.

Lots of great information about Martin on his own website:

http://www.frankmartin.org/

(http://www.claves.ch/covers/247/show_CD_1202.png?1359370779)

This is good news. A fully unknown score by Martin : a ballet for small orchestra and 4 singers.

Listen to fragments  at:

http://www.qobuz.com/album/gabor-takacs-nagy-das-marchen-vom-aschenbrodel-le-conte-de-cendrillon/0887845252555


P.

Discovered a new piece by Martin yesterday, concerto for clavier

[asin]B001IOMWGM[/asin]

A bit of a novelty hearing a harpsichord play modern music, but a piece that is wonderfully put together.  The other recordings on this release are also marvelous recorded performances.

I have a small cache of Martin recordings that I have not listened to in a while and I think it is time for a revisiting.

I'm slowly easing my way back into Martin's music. I'm listening to the Bamert recording of the Ballades right now which is right up my alley. I've heard this recording before but I really appreciate more this time around.

I'm also going to listen to this Decca 2-CD set:

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_FPpiWNARTt4/SPHHNcGPyCI/AAAAAAAAFTs/t6oXrp1Ljw8/s400/frankmartin1.jpg)

I'm looking forward to giving the Violin Concerto another shot after disliking the MD&G performance.

Quote from: pjme on April 08, 2013, 11:24:36 AM
(http://www.claves.ch/covers/247/show_CD_1202.png?1359370779)

This is good news. A fully unknown score by Martin : a ballet for small orchestra and 4 singers.

Listen to fragments  at:

http://www.qobuz.com/album/gabor-takacs-nagy-das-marchen-vom-aschenbrodel-le-conte-de-cendrillon/0887845252555


P.

Just bought that recording today. Look forward to hearing it.

This complete recording of Martin's sole opera Der Sturm has been sitting in my to-listen-to pile since April:

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B004S7ZYV6.01.L.jpg)

I'm going to try and devote some time to it. This set is 3-CDs so I'm going to have to space everything out so I can digest this operatic behemoth.

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 17, 2013, 09:01:17 AM

I'm looking forward to giving the Violin Concerto another shot after disliking the MD&G performance.

You might try the recent Baiba Skride recording.  I'm more positive about it now.

My preferred recording is expensive, but at least there are some used copies available now.

[asin]B000009IE7[/asin]

I think his Symphony, recorded by Bamert on Chandos, is one of the great, unsung symphonies.

Quote from: The new erato on September 17, 2013, 09:53:42 AM
I think his Symphony, recorded by Bamert on Chandos, is one of the great, unsung symphonies.

[asin]B000000AVH[/asin]

I found the symphony stunning, the sinfonie concertante, not so much, as I recall.

Quote from: Scarpia on September 17, 2013, 10:29:16 AM
I found the symphony stunning, the sinfonie concertante, not so much, as I recall.

It's just the Petite Sinfonie Concertante without the flavor.

Quote from: Daverz on September 17, 2013, 09:36:59 AM
You might try the recent Baiba Skride recording.  I'm more positive about it now.

My preferred recording is expensive, but at least there are some used copies available now.

[asin]B000009IE7[/asin]

I own the Skride recording and will give it a spin sometime today. Yes, your preferred recording is quite expensive. I'll see if I can track down a copy less than $15. I highly doubt I'll run across a copy, but I'm optimistic something will turn out.

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 17, 2013, 09:01:17 AM
I'm slowly easing my way back into Martin's music. I'm listening to the Bamert recording of the Ballades right now which is right up my alley. I've heard this recording before but I really appreciate more this time around.

I'm also going to listen to this Decca 2-CD set:

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_FPpiWNARTt4/SPHHNcGPyCI/AAAAAAAAFTs/t6oXrp1Ljw8/s400/frankmartin1.jpg)

I'm looking forward to giving the Violin Concerto another shot after disliking the MD&G performance.

As I mentioned in the favorite VCs thread, that's a great set with a stunning performance of the VC which blows all others out of the water.

Quote from: The new erato on September 17, 2013, 09:53:42 AM
I think his Symphony, recorded by Bamert on Chandos, is one of the great, unsung symphonies.

It's a powerful work, no doubt. :) It utilizes dodecaphonic elements, but you'd hardly notice as Martin creates such captivating harmonies and rhythms.

Quote from: The new erato on September 17, 2013, 09:53:42 AM
I think his Symphony, recorded by Bamert on Chandos, is one of the great, unsung symphonies.

I'll have to re-listen to it at some juncture. I own all of Bamert's Martin recordings.

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 17, 2013, 11:13:34 AM
I'll have to re-listen to it at some juncture. I own all of Bamert's Martin recordings.

Oh Oh Oh!! I am so impressed!!!

Quote from: Johnll on September 17, 2013, 06:49:06 PM
Oh Oh Oh!! I am so impressed!!!

Okay? ??? Forget your medication today?

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 17, 2013, 06:52:54 PM
Okay? ??? Forget your medication today?

Wait'll he discovers the Purchases Today thread.  That's nothin' but us braggin' on our addiction.

Quote from: Daverz on September 17, 2013, 07:07:05 PM
Wait'll he discovers the Purchases Today thread.  That's nothin' but us braggin' on our addiction.

Yeah, that's for seriously ill members ---- like me. ;) :D

Quote from: kyjo on September 17, 2013, 11:04:37 AM
As I mentioned in the favorite VCs thread, that's a great set with a stunning performance of the VC which blows all others out of the water.

Have you heard Schneiderhan's recording with the composer conducting?

Quote from: Daverz on September 17, 2013, 07:13:39 PM
Have you heard Schneiderhan's recording with the composer conducting?

No, I don't believe I have. :-[ Is it only available in this set?

[asin]B00067GKGA[/asin]

If so, I'll probably pass, unless I can find a great deal on it. I don't need any more recordings of the warhorses. :)

Quote from: kyjo on September 18, 2013, 11:48:57 AM
No, I don't believe I have. :-[ Is it only available in this set?
[asin]B00067GKGA[/asin]

That's the recording with Ansermet that you already have.

I think I have every commercial recording of the work except the one on ABC (Olding/Iwaki).

Schneiderhan/Ansermet
Kling/Whitney
Schneiderhan/Martin
Canin
Erxleben/Steen
Skride/Fischer

I think the second Schneiderhan the best one for the passion of the solo playing and for the pungency of the accompaniment.  The recording is very vivid, too.

I downloaded a recording by Szigeti (a broadcast, I think), but have not listened to it yet (it was made late in his career).

Quote from: Daverz on September 18, 2013, 12:33:30 PM
That's the recording with Ansermet that you already have.

I think I have every commercial recording of the work except the one on ABC (Olding/Iwaki).

Schneiderhan/Ansermet
Kling/Whitney
Schneiderhan/Martin
Canin
Erxleben/Steen
Skride/Fischer

The think the second Schneiderhan the best one for the passion of the solo playing and for the pungency of the accompaniment.  The recording is very vivid, too.

I downloaded a recording by Szigeti (a broadcast, I think), but have not listened to it yet (it was made late in his career).

Could you please provide an Amazon link to the Schneiderham/Martin recording? Much appreciated. :)

Quote from: kyjo on September 18, 2013, 12:42:22 PM
Could you please provide an Amazon link to the Schneiderham/Martin recording? Much appreciated. :)

http://www.amazon.com/Martin-violkonz-klav-konz-Schneiderhan-martin/dp/B000024P53/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1379537291&sr=8-1&keywords=B000024P53

I ordered a copy through Amazon DE. Ain't cheap! Let's hope Daverz knows what he's talking about  ;D

Sarge

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on September 18, 2013, 12:50:18 PM
http://www.amazon.com/Martin-violkonz-klav-konz-Schneiderhan-martin/dp/B000024P53/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1379537291&sr=8-1&keywords=B000024P53

Cheaper here:

[asin]B000009IE7[/asin]

Also, the Vox Candide Lp may be easier to find and is a pretty good pressing.

One warning: this CD uses pre-emphasis (which is a sort of RIAA EQ for CDs that was used early on in the CD era).  It just so happens that my Cambridge Audio 840C CD player does not support pre-emphasis, so when I first got this it sounded screechy.  Applying de-emphasis with sox fixed that.

http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Pre-emphasis

Quote
I ordered a copy through Amazon DE. Ain't cheap! Let's hope Daverz knows what he's talking about  ;D

Opinions come with no warranty expressed or implied.

Quote from: Daverz on September 18, 2013, 01:07:36 PM
Cheaper here:
Opinions come with no warranty expressed or implied.

Coward!  ;D ;)

Sarge

Quote from: Daverz on September 18, 2013, 12:33:30 PMThat's the recording with Ansermet that you already have.
I think I have every commercial recording of the work except the one on ABC (Olding/Iwaki).

Just for the sake of completism, I have Olding/Iwaki. It's actually quite a good performance--and having the Milhaud coupled with it is an excellent idea--but I don't think it adds much to the other recordings you mention.

Quote from: edward on September 19, 2013, 05:29:19 AM
Just for the sake of completism, I have Olding/Iwaki. It's actually quite a good performance--and having the Milhaud coupled with it is an excellent idea--but I don't think it adds much to the other recordings you mention.

I'll probably have to get it anyway..

Listened to the Erxleben last night.  His playing is very fine, but cooler and more cerebral than Schneiderhan's (though it's hard to think of Schneiderhan as a hothead with those nerd glasses).  The effect is enhanced by a more distant recording with the violin in proportion.  The orchestral playing is excellent, though similarly cool, and MDG's sonics are gorgeous.  The perrformance is not as immediately compelling as Schneiderhan/Martin, but it's a valid interpretation.

TIme to move on to some other Martin works...

What I'm hearing is that you all reeeeeeeeeeeally want someone like Mutter/DG (just anyone with flawless sound) to give the VC an uber definitive sound/performance experience. I hear ya!!

I just haven't been able to get into this VC for some reason. I do think it needs that DG/Chandos treatment.

Quote from: snyprrr on September 19, 2013, 07:55:37 AMI do think it needs that DG/Chandos treatment.

Decca and Schniederhan can hold its own with anything that is likely to come from DG or Chandos.

Quote from: Scarpia on September 19, 2013, 08:13:41 AM
Decca and Schniederhan can hold its own with anything that is likely to come from DG or Chandos.

Maybe I really did never have that set?? hmm...

Quote from: snyprrr on September 19, 2013, 07:55:37 AM
What I'm hearing is that you all reeeeeeeeeeeally want someone like Mutter/DG (just anyone with flawless sound) to give the VC an uber definitive sound/performance experience. I hear ya!!

Hahn was who I hoped for earlier in the thread. 

Quote from: Scarpia on September 19, 2013, 08:13:41 AM
Decca and Schniederhan can hold its own with anything that is likely to come from DG or Chandos.

I think the work benefits from a stereo recording.  Decca's sound is OK for the period.  The digital transfer is a bit overfiltered.

I haven't looked completely through this thread but I've got to mention to our Martin fans that if you don't own this disc, then you need it ASAP:

(http://ecmreviews.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/triptychon2.jpg)

The three works here: Polyptyque, Triptychon, and Passacaille receive what could very well be reference performances. This is some incredibly austere, darkly-hued music that is speckled with lighter moments throughout. I definitely give a high five to all the musicians involved with this recording.

I have all these works in older performances but fully endorse your statement.
Triptychon, btw, was written for Wolfgang Schneiderhahn and his wife, soprano Irmgard Seefried.

Polyptique is superb.

P.

Quote from: pjme on September 24, 2013, 07:53:30 AM
I have all these works in older performances but fully endorse your statement.
Triptychon, btw, was written for Wolfgang Schneiderhahn and his wife, soprano Irmgard Seefried.

Polyptique is superb.

P.

Yes, this ECM is an essential acquisition for anyone interested in Martin IMHO. These are performances of great authority and the excellent audio quality from ECM make this a must-buy.

It's also selling for a good price right now on Amazon MP. I see a seller has it for $6. Those that don't own it, take this opportunity and bounce on this deal.

Shucks. I just browsed through this thread and didn't spot any mention of the 8 Preludes for Piano, which were my introduction to the name of Frank Martin.

(Years ago my teacher convinced me to learn prelude no.8. I loved it. Learnt it by heart, which was rare for me.)

Received this recording today:

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00B12QYCO.01.L.jpg)

A world premiere recording of a long neglected ballet. Looking forward to digging into this one. Probably over the weekend.

I was pleasantly surprised to see an interview on Dutch television with Frank Martin's widow, Maria, now aged 99 !
As a young woman, she moved from the Netherlands to Switzerland, where Frank Martin was her teacher.
Some noteworthy moments:
She wanted to stress multiple times that Martin was not under the spell of Schoenberg et al.
Both of them had been very sad that Dinu Lipatti never got around to playing the 8 Preludes, which were dedicated to him.
The house in which they lived, in The Netherlands, has been left unchanged since 1974, when F. Martin died.
She mentioned she has only emptied the ashtrays ;D
Remarked that Martin did not compose easily. During especially difficult periods, the dog had to be locked out of the workroom.
And of course, pitied the fact that the works are not played more often, especially in The Netherlands.

Website with another interview with the widow and info about Martin, Martin Society and House:

http://www.frankmartin.org/index.php/en/frank-martin-house

I really need to start collecting more recordings, since i have enjoyed all i've heard so far (Polyptyque, PSC, Cto for 7 winds, PC2, Quatre Elements, Harpsichord Cto, Monologe aus Jedermann)

Quote from: Klaze on June 20, 2014, 12:47:26 PM
I was pleasantly surprised to see an interview on Dutch television with Frank Martin's widow, Maria, now aged 99 !
As a young woman, she moved from the Netherlands to Switzerland, where Frank Martin was her teacher.
Some noteworthy moments:
She wanted to stress multiple times that Martin was not under the spell of Schoenberg et al.
Both of them had been very sad that Dinu Lipatti never got around to playing the 8 Preludes, which were dedicated to him.
The house in which they lived, in The Netherlands, has been left unchanged since 1974, when F. Martin died.
She mentioned she has only emptied the ashtrays ;D
Remarked that Martin did not compose easily. During especially difficult periods, the dog had to be locked out of the workroom.
And of course, pitied the fact that the works are not played more often, especially in The Netherlands.

Website with another interview with the widow and info about Martin, Martin Society and House:

http://www.frankmartin.org/index.php/en/frank-martin-house

I really need to start collecting more recordings, since i have enjoyed all i've heard so far (Polyptyque, PSC, Cto for 7 winds, PC2, Quatre Elements, Harpsichord Cto, Monologe aus Jedermann)

Thanks. He's a composer of depth and quality.

Quote from: Klaze on June 20, 2014, 12:47:26 PM
Remarked that Martin did not compose easily. During especially difficult periods, the dog had to be locked out of the workroom.

whimper

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 26, 2013, 06:37:47 PM
Received this recording today:

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00B12QYCO.01.L.jpg)

A world premiere recording of a long neglected ballet. Looking forward to digging into this one. Probably over the weekend.

Hear (and see) a performance of the whole thing at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMZ7cjJBZG0

(Das Märchen vom Aschenbrödel or just plain Cinderella)

or a few minutes of extracts at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG4ULN059aQ

Also highly recommended is Danse de la peur (2 pianos + small orchestra) at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vNIfgtnOKc

and Poèmes de la mort (3 male voices + 3 electric guitars) at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ4CvxKPCZ8

Quote from: snyprrr on June 20, 2014, 02:21:51 PM
whimper

bumpo

Quote from: snyprrr on May 07, 2015, 04:28:20 PM
bumpo

natty

I think I need a Cornet: de Leeuw, Zagrosek or the one on MDG?

Zagrosek. I have all three and while all are different and valuable, Zagrosek strikes out.

Quote from: The new erato on June 16, 2015, 01:47:43 PM
Zagrosek strikes out.

you mean, he "hits a home run"... "strikes out" is the bad thing! ;) 0:)

Quote from: snyprrr on June 16, 2015, 03:32:29 PM
you mean, he "hits a home run"... "strikes out" is the bad thing! ;) 0:)

Sorry. Zagrosek strikes home. I shouldn't use metaphors from games I'm not too familiar with!

Thanks!

Quote from: The new erato on June 16, 2015, 09:17:14 PM
Sorry. Zagrosek strikes home. I shouldn't use metaphors from games I'm not too familiar with!

Three checks you're out!

Quote from: Ken B on June 17, 2015, 02:11:53 PM
Three checks you're out!

Not home?

From Alex Ross' blog:

Frank Martin's austere choral masterwork will receive an exceedingly rare New York performance on Sunday at Trinity Wall Street, with the New Amsterdam Singers undertaking the task. The archives of the New York Times suggest that the last — indeed, only — local performance was in 1952, when the Dessoff Choirs presented it. Olin Downes, of the Times, described the work as "unfortunately invertebrate," a phrase that applies rather better to Downes's style than to Martin's. Tony Tommasini gave a much warmer reception to Harmonia Mundi's 2010 recording.

Good! Golgotha is an impressive work.

Peter

A new relese from the enterpising CPO label:

(https://media3.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0761203799725.jpg)

Press blurb:

"Frank Martin was one of the most eminent Swiss composers of all times and along with Arthur Honegger certainly the leading representative of his guild in Francophone Switzerland. Today it is above all in the field of large-format vocal composition that he ranks with the most remarkable composers of the twentieth century. Many texts describing dances of death began being written during the middle years of the fourteenth century. Painters and engravers like Hans Holbein and Albrecht Dürer depicted this subject. Perhaps the most famous pictorial representation of these danses macabres was produced in Basle. It consisted of thirty-seven pictures painted on the cemetery walls of the local Dominican Monastery beginning in the mid-fifteenth century. Today only nineteen fragments of these paintings survive. In 1943 the pantomime Mariette von Meyenburg asked her uncle Frank Martin to compose the music for a stage performance that would feature the traditional, empathetic, and understanding figure of Death, thereby deliberately opposing the horrors and mass slaughter of World War II. Frank Martin developed a scenario for a professional dancer who would portray Death and for a dozen pantomimes. The »action« consists of eight scenes in which Death meets with individuals whose time is over. They are portrayed by the members of boys' choir and accompanied by a small orchestra. Martin has a large jazz band play the music of the dances of death – the so-called musique profane. The work was performed on a mere two occasions in Basle, in 1943 and 1992, but with great success. The music was never published. Maria Martin, the composer's widow, suggested that a concert suite be developed on the basis of the Danse Macabre in Basle, 1943 to save the music from oblivion. However, this strategy would not have kept the complete version – a genuine masterpiece – from suffering the very same fate. Therefore, we have decided to produce the complete original version".

Thanks to you and cpo!

Interesting piece that holds one's attention througout:

(https://s30.postimg.org/wen8lppdt/Front_1966_LP.jpg)

In Terra Pax is my favourite of the works I know. Only discovered it as it came with my double LP set of Honegger's 'King David'.

Quote from: Scion7 on August 25, 2017, 11:58:18 PM
Interesting piece that holds one's attention througout:

(https://s30.postimg.org/wen8lppdt/Front_1966_LP.jpg)

Is it that one, or Ansermet?,... that I first heard on a scratchy library LP (I believe it was released on Decca/London on CD)? The opening, with the scratchy LP, made a huuuge, creepy, Lon Chaney impression on me: it's like the perfect 'Dance of the Vampires',; it might have worked in a horror film?!?!

I haven't heard any other version really give me the same chills, even the CD version of that same performance. Ahh, that scratchy old LP!! ;)


But, the piece keeps moving the entire time- sometimes I think the colors are too maudlin, but, it plays well against Schoenberg's Piano Concerto. Both pieces have an idealized Neo-Classical sound, imo, which still tended "towards the graveyard".


The problem for me was, then, having to snorkle through the rest of his output looking for something as memorable, and, I don't think I currently have an all-Martin disc. I remember not being that impressed with the DoubleDecca years back. The Violin Concerto could use fresh ears here.

...seem to recall liking the astringent(?) Cello Concerto,... would like to hear the Harpsichord Concerto...

HELP!! :o

Fartin' martin's Spartan Shartin'


???

anyone?,... anyone?,... Bueller?,...



Martin's Spartan _______??

Martin's Spartan Tartan




thank me later ;)

Quote from: snyprrr on August 26, 2017, 08:57:07 AM
Fartin' martin's Spartan Shartin'

???

anyone?,... anyone?,... Bueller?,...

HERE:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IISJXKl1Ih4

Now, go take your 250mg of anti-anxiety meds, and listen.

*bump*

Ah!

https://www.youtube.com/v/ScSYkWFs2hE

P.

My impression of Frank Martin is that he's a modernist who is still composing harmonically. Modernist in that he is using modernist ideas, like using the entire chromatic set, and using it geometrically instead of dividing the octave at the fourth and fifth. That leaves (not counting inversions) the intervals (in semitones): 1 (m2), 2 (M2), 3 (m3), 4 (M3), and tritone. That totals 6 intervals (the fourth and fifth are inversions of each other, so count as one).

As is usual in such modernist thinking, this tends towards 'diminished-itis', a result of inward-spiraling/recurring smaller intervals, opposed to the outgoing fourths and fifths of tonality. More localized focal-points are formed, pseudo-tonalities can 'cycle through the octaves fleetingly, kaleidoscopically, recursively, fractally self-similarly. His thinking, to me, is close to Bartok. His orchestration and ideas about form and instrumentation are one of his greatest strengths.

Quote from: Scion7 on August 28, 2017, 09:32:13 PM
*bump*

I've been plowing through Martin to reacquaint myself. I'm finding, as with Szymanowski, my last impressions still hold. His Works List is relatively small, and I don't think I discovered anything this time.

Other than the Vocal Music, for which I'm just not going to venture, this is what I found:

1) Piano Music: many recitals of the 'Complete'. I just can't get excited.   
     Passacaille for organ: nice meditative start which I felt was marred by the loud tail- not my bag
     ***Sonata da Chiesa for organ and flute: this I like!

2) Chamber Music: in general, I'm not finding anything that I'm particularly excited about. The 1965 String Quartet (Amati/SQ/Divox) is still his masterpiece here, and it "sounds like Martin" to a high degree. I call it the "cortege sound", if you understand that Martinu-like rhythmic motif (like a "jump" beat) that Martin seems to use in all his music.

3) Concertos:

Piano 1 (1934)- this one's aaalright, but I'm normally not eager for more French styled PCs.
Piano 2 (1969)- obviously more interest... mm,... eh...

Harpsichord (1954)- powerful opening, but it wore on me a little by the end.

Violin (1951)- I don't know why I don't love this,... I just don't get it

Polyptyque (Violin No.2;1971)- I heard the Jecklin, which was very passionate. I imagine the more modern issues would be even more sumptuous. Though not really my cup of tea, I found this the most powerful of the works I heard.

Cello (1965)- I NEED to hear this

7 Winds (1949)- I just don't go for this, or the Etudes,... eh



Erasmi Monumentum- not my bag
Four Elements- sufficiently different from the normal Martin sound
Symphonie- not my bag


I already have all the little bits... the Chandos 'Ballade' CD may be the single best Martin disc!

As far as PETITE goes, I have Wand. I tried many others... who do you like?

Quote from: snyprrr on August 30, 2017, 08:22:21 PM

3) Concertos:

Cello (1965)- I NEED to hear this

Well, then, get on with it, man!! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSvWo2I-XLM&t=11s

:P

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and if you want something a bit wee'r try >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FazDrecgV2M

>>>>>>> or for a more Magyar take on it that emphasizes the forced evacuation of those sheep-herding Vlachs out of Transylvania try >>>>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxVZAml4kV8

;D

Quote from: Scion7 on August 30, 2017, 08:32:44 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and if you want something a bit wee'r try >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FazDrecgV2M

>>>>>>> or for a more Magyar take on it that emphasizes the forced evacuation of those sheep-herding Vlachs out of Transylvania try >>>>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxVZAml4kV8

;D

Don't get me wrong. That ' Ballades' disc is great. PSC is ever so charming. I have a special place for Frank Martin; but, I want to like more of him and I'm not getting there yet.

'The Four Elements' sounds about the most interesting...?...

I heard his Violin Concerto performed live by Baiba Skride a few years ago. It was pretty cool.

Frank Martin is a fabulous composer. Works of his such as the Requiem, Golgotha, the Cello Concerto, the Ballades, Polyptyque, and In terra pax are nothing short than extraordinary. It's always baffled me as to why he's not better known, but I'm sure it more or less has to do with how his musical voice is sometimes rather ambiguous and he doesn't go for the grab-you-by-the-throat climaxes a la Shostakovich or Bartok. His art is of subtlety and color. Once you start investigating the music and really listen to how it all fits together, you start to understand that he actually had quite a singular voice.

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 01, 2017, 06:30:04 PM
Frank Martin is a fabulous composer. Works of his such as the Requiem, Golgotha, the Cello Concerto, the Ballades, Polyptyque, and In terra pax are nothing short than extraordinary. It's always baffled me as to why he's not better known, but I'm sure it more or less has to do with how his musical voice is sometimes rather ambiguous and he doesn't go for the grab-you-by-the-throat climaxes a la Shostakovich or Bartok. His art is of subtlety and color. Once you start investigating the music and really listen to how it all fits together, you start to understand that he actually had quite a singular voice.

V much agree with this.

Quote from: vandermolen on September 01, 2017, 08:11:58 PM
V much agree with this.

Kudos, Jeffrey. 8)

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 01, 2017, 06:30:04 PM
Frank Martin is a fabulous composer. Works of his such as the Requiem, Golgotha, the Cello Concerto, the Ballades, Polyptyque, and In terra pax are nothing short than extraordinary. It's always baffled me as to why he's not better known, but I'm sure it more or less has to do with how his musical voice is sometimes rather ambiguous and he doesn't go for the grab-you-by-the-throat climaxes a la Shostakovich or Bartok. His art is of subtlety and color. Once you start investigating the music and really listen to how it all fits together, you start to understand that he actually had quite a singular voice.

Me too John. I think you hit the spot in your analysis. And to the works let me add Der Cornett, a fabulous song cycle for soprano and string orchestra

I had an uncle who was married to a Swiss lady. I remember him telling me that Frank Martin was his favourite composer.

Quote from: The new erato on September 01, 2017, 11:32:53 PM
Me too John. I think you hit the spot in your analysis. And to the works let me add Der Cornett, a fabulous song cycle for soprano and string orchestra

Thanks, erato. Yes, that's another fine work (Der Cornett). I'll also just add that Martin's chamber music is quite delectable.

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 01, 2017, 06:30:04 PM
Frank Martin is a fabulous composer. Works of his such as the Requiem, Golgotha, the Cello Concerto, the Ballades, Polyptyque, and In terra pax are nothing short than extraordinary. It's always baffled me as to why he's not better known, but I'm sure it more or less has to do with how his musical voice is sometimes rather ambiguous and he doesn't go for the grab-you-by-the-throat climaxes a la Shostakovich or Bartok. His art is of subtlety and color. Once you start investigating the music and really listen to how it all fits together, you start to understand that he actually had quite a singular voice.s

But, like Martinu, he had a perpetual motif in most of the mature works that has left me wanting what I have: the Petite, the Chandos Ballades, and the String Quartet, and some random trifles. Maybe I'll try 'in terra pax',...?...

Martin is one of the forgotten masters of the 20th century, IMO. I had the rare opportunity to attend a live performance of his "In terra pax" this summer by the Grant Park Orchestra and Chorus. What a moving, uplifting work.

I've been fortunate enough to see Le Vin herbé (another masterpiece) live under Masaaki Suzuki here in Bergen.

Listened to a favorite tonight, the Concerto for seven wind instruments, timpani, percussion, and string orchestra in the Martinon/Chicago box.  Brilliant.

Quote from: Atterbergman on September 05, 2017, 03:12:51 PM
Martin is one of the forgotten masters of the 20th century, IMO. I had the rare opportunity to attend a live performance of his "In terra pax" this summer by the Grant Park Orchestra and Chorus. What a moving, uplifting work.

Clearly not forgotten by us here on GMG! ;D

I was transfixed the first time I heard Martin's Mass for double choir and later, Golgotha and the two PCs and the Cello Concerto. But I'm guilty of neglecting some of the works mentioned in the thread. He is worthy of being the "headliner" but he seems underappreciated for whatever reason.

Quote from: The new erato on September 05, 2017, 09:49:07 PM
I've been fortunate enough to see Le Vin herbé (another masterpiece) live under Masaaki Suzuki here in Bergen.

Fantastic !

People around Washington DC had that opportunity last weekend:


https://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/music/when-it-comes-to-opera-it-doesnt-have-to-be-grand-to-be-good-case-in-point-le-vin-herbe/2019/02/11/652ce090-2e2f-11e9-813a-0ab2f17e305b_story.html?utm_term=.842052f5a0c1 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/music/when-it-comes-to-opera-it-doesnt-have-to-be-grand-to-be-good-case-in-point-le-vin-herbe/2019/02/11/652ce090-2e2f-11e9-813a-0ab2f17e305b_story.html?utm_term=.842052f5a0c1)


https://www.wolftrap.org/calendar/performance/1819barns/0209show19.aspx (https://www.wolftrap.org/calendar/performance/1819barns/0209show19.aspx)

Maybe this production will travel ? Keep an eye for it. Le vin herbé is IMHO Martin's masterpiece.

Getting into his works. So far the mass, the petite sinfonia concertante and the Clavicembalo Concerto I consider big hits.

I think this may be the best recording of the Violin Concerto since Schneiderhan recorded it with the composer conducting.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71HsSFwsLPS._SX522_.jpg)

Quote from: Uhor on January 22, 2022, 10:24:57 AM
Getting into his works. So far the mass, the petite sinfonia concertante and the Clavicembalo Concerto I consider big hits.

Completely agree, we are fortunate to have both those in excellent recordings, but the violin concerto isn't that bad either.

Quote from: Daverz on January 22, 2022, 11:55:09 AM
I think this may be the best recording of the Violin Concerto since Schneiderhan recorded it with the composer conducting.

It may be just me, but I find Schneiderhan's recording with Ansermet better than his recording with Martin.

Quote from: (: premont :) on January 22, 2022, 01:01:48 PM
It may be just me, but I find Schneiderhan's recording with Ansermet better than his recording with Martin.

I "learned" the work from the Ansermet recording, but the sonics of the older recording always got in the way for me.  I haven't listened to it in a long time, though.

Anyway, I recommend the Roussev recording.

Quote from: Daverz on January 22, 2022, 11:55:09 AM
I think this may be the best recording of the Violin Concerto since Schneiderhan recorded it with the composer conducting.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71HsSFwsLPS._SX522_.jpg)

Never cared for the Schneiderhan recordings (either one of them). I haven't heard this new Claves recording, but the recording that sold me on the Martin Violin Concerto was this one:

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODAwNzE4Ni4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0NTg1NzY3NDF9)

And the performance that sold me on the Cello Concerto was this one:

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODAwNjM4NC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0ODE3OTk0NDZ9)

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 22, 2022, 07:04:21 PM
Never cared for the Schneiderhan recordings (either one of them). I haven't heard this new Claves recording, but the recording that sold me on the Martin Violin Concerto was this one:

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODAwNzE4Ni4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0NTg1NzY3NDF9)

And the performance that sold me on the Cello Concerto was this one:

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODAwNjM4NC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0ODE3OTk0NDZ9)

Yes, the Poltera recording is a real beauty.  I think I might have heard the Cello Concerto on a Louisville recording, not sure.  But Poltera's recording is the one I paid attention to.

Just did a proper accounting.  In addtion to Roussev and the two Schneiderhan recordings of the Violin Concerto, I have

Baiba Skride
Michael Erxleben
Dene Olding
Stuart Canin
Paul Kling

So I'm a bit obsessed with the work.  I'd forgotten about Canin and Kling, though.  Perhaps I should give all those a re-listen.

Quote from: Daverz on January 22, 2022, 08:29:19 PM
Yes, the Poltera recording is a real beauty.  I think I might have heard the Cello Concerto on a Louisville recording, not sure.  But Poltera's recording is the one I paid attention to.

Just did a proper accounting.  In addtion to Roussev and the two Schneiderhan recordings of the Violin Concerto, I have

Baiba Skride
Michael Erxleben
Dene Olding
Stuart Canin
Paul Kling

So I'm a bit obsessed with the work.  I'd forgotten about Canin and Kling, though.  Perhaps I should give all those a re-listen.

Didn't realize there were that many Martin VC recordings out there. I only have the Skride, Erxleben and the Schneiderhan (w/ Ansermet). You've certainly piqued my interest in the Roussev, so I might be getting it soon.

I really ought to listen to Martin more often - he was a great composer. I hold in very high esteem his Petite Symphonie Concertante, In terra pax, Mass for Double Choir, Violin Concerto, Cello Concerto, the delightful (Piano) Trio sur des mélodies populaires irlandaises, and the beautiful early Piano Quintet.

Quote from: kyjo on January 23, 2022, 07:18:33 AM
I really ought to listen to Martin more often - he was a great composer. I hold in very high esteem his Petite Symphonie Concertante, In terra pax, Mass for Double Choir, Violin Concerto, Cello Concerto, the delightful (Piano) Trio sur des mélodies populaires irlandaises, and the beautiful early Piano Quintet.

All of these works are outstanding, Kyle, although I'm not much of a fan of a cappella choral music. I do like Martin's works with voices and orchestra (or ensemble) of course. Do you know the Requiem, Golgotha, Le Mystère de la Nativité, Le vin herbé or Cantate pour le temps de Noël? If not, you definitely should remedy this, ASAP! Also, and I know you're not a fan of operatic music, but Der Sturm (his only opera) is remarkable. Check out his String Quartet while you're at it. :)

Quote from: Daverz on September 05, 2017, 11:56:09 PM
Listened to a favorite tonight, the Concerto for seven wind instruments, timpani, percussion, and string orchestra in the Martinon/Chicago box.  Brilliant.

Oh...I must hear this as I also own the Martinon Chicago box set. So much music, so little time.

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 25, 2022, 06:55:08 AM
All of these works are outstanding, Kyle, although I'm not much of a fan of a cappella choral music. I do like Martin's works with voices and orchestra (or ensemble) of course. Do you know the Requiem, Golgotha, Le Mystère de la Nativité, Le vin herbé or Cantate pour le temps de Noël? If not, you definitely should remedy this, ASAP! Also, and I know you're not a fan of operatic music, but Der Sturm (his only opera) is remarkable. Check out his String Quartet while you're at it. :)

I'm not much of a fan of a cappella choral music either, but I must make an exception for Martin's beautiful Mass. I'm not yet familiar with any of the works you mention, so I look forward to exploring them in the near future! Martin was certainly a prolific composer of vocal music. Actually, I don't have anything against opera, it's just usually quite a time commitment for me. ;)

Also, what do members here think of Martin's sole Symphony (recorded by Chandos)? I haven't heard it yet.

Quote from: kyjo on January 25, 2022, 12:41:53 PM
I'm not much of a fan of a cappella choral music either, but I must make an exception for Martin's beautiful Mass. I'm not yet familiar with any of the works you mention, so I look forward to exploring them in the near future! Martin was certainly a prolific composer of vocal music. Actually, I don't have anything against opera, it's just usually quite a time commitment for me. ;)

Also, what do members here think of Martin's sole Symphony (recorded by Chandos)? I haven't heard it yet.

The Symphony is excellent, but it's been years since I've listened to it properly. Another work you've got to hear is the orchestral suite Les quatre éléments.

Just listened to Pavane couleur du temps for string orchestra on the strength of Martin's advocacy recently. Intensely moving and lyric with something of a lament. This kind of lyricism is very characteristic of him. Absolutely enchanting, bewitching in a sort of way.

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 25, 2022, 12:46:38 PM
The Symphony is excellent, but it's been years since I've listened to it properly. Another work you've got to hear is the orchestral suite Les quatre éléments.

Yes for the Symphony and I yet have to be familiar tith Those Four Elements.

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on January 25, 2022, 07:06:46 PM
Just listened to Pavane couleur du temps for string orchestra on the strength of Martin's advocacy recently. Intensely moving and lyric with something of a lament. This kind of lyricism is very characteristic of him. Absolutely enchanting, bewitching in a sort of way.

Oh yes, that's a beautiful work! I've heard the original version for string quintet on this excellent disc featuring Martin's earlier chamber works:

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71MjlXyYIdL._SX355_.jpg)

The delightful gem of a Piano Trio on Irish Folksongs has done quite well on disc, but I believe this is the only recording of the early Piano Quintet, which basks in the same warm Impressionist rays that illuminate the chamber works of Ravel and Jean Cras.

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on January 25, 2022, 07:08:39 PM
Yes for the Symphony and I yet have to be familiar tith Those Four Elements.

There are two recordings of Les quatre éléments (Haitink and Bamert). Do give a listen to the Bamert. All of Bamert's Martin recordings on Chandos (five in all) are essential acquisitions for the Martin enthusiast.

I've "always" as in a long time back liked Frank Martin a lot, but the work that really conviced me of his genius is the songcycle Der Cornet which nobody here seem to mention, The Orfeo recording ids the best of the 3 I own.

Otherwise lots of great recommendations here. His works for voices (oratorios, Mass etc) are great, and I like to throw in a recommendation for Bamert's Chandos disc of the Ballades.

Quote from: The new erato on January 26, 2022, 12:38:47 AM
I've "always" as in a long time back liked Frank Martin a lot, but the work that really convinced me of his genius is the song cycle Der Cornet which nobody here seem to mention, The Orfeo recording ids the best of the 3 I own.

Otherwise lots of great recommendations here. His works for voices (oratorios, Mass etc) are great, and I like to throw in a recommendation for Bamert's Chandos disc of the Ballades.

Der Cornet is a fine work, indeed, erato. I should revisit this work today. I own the Orfeo and MDG recording (I like both recordings and won't pick a favorite as they both have their own strengths/weaknesses). Another work that doesn't get mentioned enough is his only opera, Der Sturm. Such an outstanding piece.

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 26, 2022, 06:00:30 AM
Der Cornet is a fine work, indeed, erato. I should revisit this work today. I own the Orfeo and MDG recording (I like both recordings and won't pick a favorite as they both have their own strengths/weaknesses). Another work that doesn't get mentioned enough is his only opera, Der Sturm. Such an outstanding piece.

I have the CD from the Casavelle label, with Brigitte Balleys.
I actually bought the CD because I love Rilke.

Quote from: springrite on January 26, 2022, 06:06:05 AM
I have the CD from the Casavelle label, with Brigitte Balleys.
I actually bought the CD because I love Rilke.

Ah yes, that's the recording with López Cobos conducting. Looks like a nice recording. How's the performance, Paul?

Quote from: The new erato on January 26, 2022, 12:38:47 AM
I've "always" as in a long time back liked Frank Martin a lot, but the work that really conviced me of his genius is the songcycle Der Cornet which nobody here seem to mention, The Orfeo recording ids the best of the 3 I own.

Otherwise lots of great recommendations here. His works for voices (oratorios, Mass etc) are great, and I like to throw in a recommendation for Bamert's Chandos disc of the Ballades.

Re Der Cornet: I have the Fabio Luisi version, which is very fine IMO.

Quote from: André on January 26, 2022, 07:08:09 AM
Re Der Cornet: I have the Fabio Luisi version, which is very fine IMO.

Ah yes, I've been considering this one. It has received some favorable reviews.

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 26, 2022, 06:18:21 AM
Ah yes, that's the recording with López Cobos conducting. Looks like a nice recording. How's the performance, Paul?

I have no others to compare to. To my ear this recording is good enough.
I have only listened to it three times, I think, over a 20 year period.

I've have a longstanding love of Frank Martin's music and my listening notes seem to express great satisfaction with almost everything by Martin that I have listen to.

One work which made a very strong impression, and which doesn't seem to get much attention is the Concerto pour Clavecin. Very inventive use of the harpsichord, and compelling music.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81-c9WGhNSL._SL600_.jpg)

Quote from: Spotted Horses on January 26, 2022, 07:39:07 AM
I've have a longstanding love of Frank Martin's music and my listening notes seem to express great satisfaction with almost everything by Martin that I have listen to.

One work which made a very strong impression, and which doesn't seem to get much attention is the Concerto pour Clavecin. Very inventive use of the harpsichord, and compelling music.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81-c9WGhNSL._SL600_.jpg)

All of the Martin MDG recordings are outstanding, SP. And yes, the Concerto pour Clavecin is very good, indeed.

Cross-posted from the "Listening" thread:

Quote from: Mirror Image on February 01, 2022, 05:02:17 PM
NP:

Martin
Le vin herbé
Sandrine Piau, Steve Davislim, Jutta Böhnert, et. al.
RIAS Chamber Choir
Scharoun-Ensemble
Reuss

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzk1MzgyNi4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MjMwNTcwMDN9)

I've got the old mono recording of Le vin herbé on the Jecklin label, but that performance left much to be desired. The audio quality was certainly a hinderance and had almost a closed, claustrophobic sound to it, but that performance did have a certain mystique to it that I found alluring. This Reuss recording is a different animal altogether --- clarity for days and articulation that the older recording couldn't possibly measure up to --- this is a gorgeous recording and I'm in awe right now. There's nothing else I can write here.

Does anyone else know this recording or have compared it to the older one on Jecklin? There's an Amazon reviewer who is somewhat of a Frank Martin specialist who had some interesting commentary about this Reuss recording vs. the older one on Jecklin:

Le Vin Herbe (1938-41) was the first major work by the great Swiss composer Frank Martin (1890-1974) in his fully mature musical language, a blend of German and French influences with a very personal use of elements of Schoenberg's 12-tone theory. The music for this retelling of the Tristan and Isolde myth is simultaneously Medieval and modern in feel, restrained and passionate, concise and expansive. Although the piece is accurately described as a "secular oratorio," its score is suffused with a clarity of insight into human existence, and a compassion for human suffering, that flow directly from Martin's deep Christian faith.

Martin wrote the work for 12 solo professional voices accompanied by 7 string instruments and piano; the 8 named characters - all important "movers" in the plot - are sung by individual members of the ensemble, who emerge from and then retreat into a small chorus which is constantly changing its size & composition, sometimes sounding like a 1-to-a-part madrigal group, sometimes like a full chamber choir. This above all is what gives Le Vin Herbe is unique, mysterious sound. And this is what we hear on the classic 1961 recording (Jecklin) with its good-to-excellent Francophone cast, conducted by Victor Desarzens, and with the composer at the piano.

But the unusual demands on the singers have tempted choir directors to reconfigure the distribution of voices into a conventional "soloists plus chorus" format, and the two subsequent recordings of the work both choose this route, with varying degrees of success. A 2000 Newport Classics issue showed the potential downside of such an adaptation: despite fine playing, good work from several soloists, solid conducting and excellent sound, its use of a largish amateur choir throughout flattened the subtle gradations of the original score to the point of courting monotony of texture, and few of the "minor" solos were projected with full conviction.

This new version is a different matter. For one thing, even at its largest the choir number only 2 dozen, just twice Martin's original complement; for another, conductor Daniel Reuss takes care to periodically reduce his forces to one-to-a-part, providing at least an element of variety in line with the original. And as far as the chorus, the 3 lead soloists and the instrumental ensemble go, it's hard to imagine Le Vin Herbe sung or played more beautifully. Indeed, sheer beauty of tone seems to have been a major goal here, and it's been reached. There is also scrupulous attention to Martin's dynamic markings, with careful distinction made between piano and pianissimo, between forte and fortissimo. What we might call the "Debussyist" component of the score - a shadowy, hushed, ravishingly lovely world - is superbly served.

But that's only part of Le Vin Herbe, and to my ears where the performance comes up short is in sustaining a consistent immersion in the drama. The story is all about characters who make crucial choices in their lives, but here there's a slightly passive quality to the characters. Soprano Sandrine Piau and especially tenor Steve Davislim both seem ready to grab hold of the verbal text, but the conducting supports their efforts only intermittently. And some of the crucial shorter roles - Iseult of the White Hands and Kaherdin in particular - barely register. Reuss gave us perhaps the most gorgeous recordings ever of Martin's Mass for Unaccompanied Double Choir and his Songs of Ariel, but there's a lack of instinctive feeling for drama here that leaves many stretches of the score underrealized, even a bit flat. Turn to the 1961 recording, and - despite rough patches in both singing and playing, plus far from ideal sound - every moment is alive to both the lyrical and the dramatic impulses in the music. (Not to mention the benefits of a fully Francophone cast.)

I write these comments not to discourage anyone from hearing this recording, but only to say: there's more to the piece. This is certainly the preferred modern recording, lovely to listen to and intermittently vivid as human drama; but if you have a chance to hear Desarzens, Martin and company, don't pass it up. And let's hope that at some future date someone will see fit to give us a new version that fulfills the composer's intentions both in letter and spirit.

Quote from: André on January 26, 2022, 07:08:09 AM
Re Der Cornet: I have the Fabio Luisi version, which is very fine IMO.

I just received the Luisi recording today, so, hopefully, I'll be able to give it a listen tomorrow.

Quote from: Daverz on January 22, 2022, 08:29:19 PM
Yes, the Poltera recording is a real beauty.  I think I might have heard the Cello Concerto on a Louisville recording, not sure.  But Poltera's recording is the one I paid attention to.

Just did a proper accounting.  In addtion to Roussev and the two Schneiderhan recordings of the Violin Concerto, I have

Baiba Skride
Michael Erxleben
Dene Olding
Stuart Canin
Paul Kling

So I'm a bit obsessed with the work.  I'd forgotten about Canin and Kling, though.  Perhaps I should give all those a re-listen.

Daverz, I'd like to dig deeper into this obsession you have with the Violin Concerto. What is it about the work that draws into it? Is there a certain atmosphere to it that you find appealing? Are there some moments within the piece that standout to you? I'm only asking, because I love this concerto, too.

Quote from: Mirror Image on February 01, 2022, 06:31:31 PM
I just received the Luisi recording today, so, hopefully, I'll be able to give it a listen tomorrow.

Let us know how you like it !

Quote from: André on February 01, 2022, 06:35:51 PM
Let us know how you like it !

I certainly will try my best. It seems lately that I haven't had much time for anything.

I just heard the Concerto for seven wind instruments, percussion and string orchestra (1949) from the recording below and it's a terrific and muscular composition. I don't have recollections of having heard it before, it features some propulsive and intense music somewhat akin to the Neoclassical style of his Petite symphonie concertante (written four years before). The 2nd movement is aptly marked 'Misterioso ed elegante', it has a haunting atmosphere. Some works by Martin are a little astringent and serious for my taste, but this Concerto is definitely not.

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzk0NjE0Ni4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2NzA0MzEyNjN9)

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on August 12, 2023, 08:35:09 PMI just heard the Concerto for seven wind instruments, percussion and string orchestra (1949) from the recording below and it's a terrific and muscular composition. I don't have recollections of having heard it before, it features some propulsive and intense music somewhat akin to the Neoclassical style of his Petite symphonie concertante (written four years before). The 2nd movement is aptly marked 'Misterioso ed elegante', it has a haunting atmosphere. Some works by Martin are a little astringent and serious for my taste, but this Concerto is definitely not.

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzk0NjE0Ni4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2NzA0MzEyNjN9)

A great piece which I know many from the Chailly and Ansermet recordings.

A new release and it's especially welcome for the String Quartet which is not recorded often:

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTYxMzk5OS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE3MTE1NTMzMDh9)

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on April 09, 2024, 04:10:16 PMA new release and it's especially welcome for the String Quartet which is not recorded often:

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTYxMzk5OS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE3MTE1NTMzMDh9)

That's good news, I haven't managed to collect a recording of that work (despite being a big fan of Frank Martin). I see that only one track has been released so far, as a 'teaser," I guess. I'm be interested to listen when it appears.

Quote from: Spotted Horses on April 10, 2024, 08:45:59 AMThat's good news, I haven't managed to collect a recording of that work (despite being a big fan of Frank Martin). I see that only one track has been released so far, as a 'teaser," I guess. I'm be interested to listen when it appears.

We are lucky since according to Presto Classical it is to be released on this Friday.

Quote from: Spotted Horses on August 12, 2023, 10:38:41 PMA great piece which I know many from the Chailly and Ansermet recordings.

Martinon also recorded it in Chicago.


It had a cool LP cover:

(https://img.discogs.com/msIlw3tjlAver1ZqDbjMf9zfqHc=/fit-in/600x597/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-13872784-1563027967-5262.jpeg.jpg)

Quote from: Daverz on April 10, 2024, 02:29:26 PMMartinon also recorded it in Chicago.

It had a cool LP cover:

(https://img.discogs.com/msIlw3tjlAver1ZqDbjMf9zfqHc=/fit-in/600x597/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-13872784-1563027967-5262.jpeg.jpg)

I have that Martinon/CSO set!

To be released on September 6th:

(https://i.imgur.com/kGWZjav.jpeg)(https://i.imgur.com/6yWd95E.jpeg)

Cross-posted from WAYL2 :

Quote

Quote from: André on January 26, 2025, 04:20:23 PM(https://i.discogs.com/J3KLkcvUg9nH-1MbxrJ5-biZW9h3zwMmc1PZOfHyoBk/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:505/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTE1OTkx/NjE4LTE2NzQ3NzU3/MTctMzI2Mi5qcGVn.jpeg)
(https://i.discogs.com/mpO4dY2qdXDz2uRfDm0G8H94AwOYbr7nqA2rROnxsCk/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:600/w:597/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTE1OTkx/NjE4LTE2NzQ3NzU3/MTctNTM5NS5qcGVn.jpeg).

You can count on Frank Martin to surprise us with off-the-beaten path compositions. This is a short disc (43') but it's a world unto itself. The 2 vocal works here are medieval poems from France and Germany sung in a language no French or German speaker today would recognize: vieux Français and Hochdeutsche (same as some sections of Orff's Carmina Burana). The sounds are familiar but the words or phrase constructions are really off. François Villon's Ballade des Pendus (Ballad of the Hanged Ones) is well-known to artists. It never went out of fashion, being revived in modern times by Kurt Weill (The Threepenny Opera) and songwriters Serge Reggiani and Léo Ferré among others.

This is no mere guitar accompaniment à la Schubert. The Villon songs are accompanied by electric guitars and bass with weird harmonies, the german Minnelieder by flute/piccolo and guitar. The effect is upsetting and mesmerizing.

The solo guitar works are short, pithy pieces that nevertheless manage to sound interesting despite their experimental writing. Martin didn't know the guitar at all, except for having a knack for making up for his inexperience by his extraordinary ear for sonorities.

As a bonbon the disc ends with a zany ditty penned on the spot while vacationing friends (the Lipattis and swiss tenor Hugues Cuénod) were at home with the Martins in Amsterdam. The piece was to be performed by the group of friends the next morning. Once again Martin chose a medieval song, from the pen of Duke Charles d'Orléans (1394-1465).